Police issue an arrest warrant for me.... advice?

[foreigner891]

1 hour ago, akirasan said:

How did you sell the bitcoins online? And how did you transfer them to this persons wallet?

localbitcoins.com - Bitcoins were held in escrow until I receive the money

[varun]

You've already got the best advice you can get - stay out of Thailand.

Sounds like a last-ditch attempt to get you to enter the country - don't become a lamb to the slaughter!.

 

 

[evadgib]

Why hasn't plod gone through official channels and what did your Govt advise...?

 

[bwpage3]

Sounds like the Thai police are over reaching and setting you up for a possible bribe. If someone used the other guys account illegally, it is not your problem. They should go find the guy that used the account and arrest him.

 

You should contact the Thai Consulate in Canada for advice

[Here It Is]

2 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

You should contact the Thai Consulate in Canada for advice

That should sort it, not.

[evadgib]

29 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

You should contact the Thai Consulate in Canada for advice

Global Affairs Canada!

Edited May 4, 2018 by evadgib

[Here It Is]

1 minute ago, evadgib said:

The correct course is to refer the matter to Global Affairs Canada. 

Even better advice.  Though, that's not going to work either.  Next.

[evadgib]

2 minutes ago, Here It Is said:

Even better advice.  Though, that's not going to work either.  Next.

How will telling plod to make himself scarce in short, sharp, jerky movements via the official channels in 3 languages not have the desired effect?

[simon43]

This post raises a more general concern about Thai bank accounts and trading in Bitcoin.

 

I hold Bitcoin and altcoins (with diminishing value!).  I trade using the Thai bx.co.th exchange, which is linked to my Bangkok Bank account, to allow easy transfer of funds for purchase of coins or the proceeds of the sale of coins.

 

That bank account also holds my salary funds from my teaching job in Myanmar ==> several million baht and growing.

 

It concerns me that some incident involving Bitcoins could lead to my Thai bank account being frozen until I visit Somchai Plod in Bangkok to be 'blackmailed'.

 

I guess it makes sense not to keep one's main funds in the bank account that is linked to your Bitcoin trading account. But I also suspect that if your bank account is frozen by the Thai authorities, then they will also be able to find out (and freeze) other non-related bank accounts in your name.

[Suradit69]

19 hours ago, Dick Crank said:

Many times these are dumb people that don't know what there doing or how to investigate anything fairly, which I'm sure you are aware by now.

Unlike the investigative pros here at TV who hear an abridged, one-sided version of a story and feel they are in possession of all the facts needed to pass judgement and who always know what "there" [sic] doing.

 

Bar stool crime scene investigation (BS_CSI) at its best.

[jerry921]

55 minutes ago, simon43 said:

This post raises a more general concern about Thai bank accounts and trading in Bitcoin.

 

I hold Bitcoin and altcoins (with diminishing value!).  I trade using the Thai bx.co.th exchange, which is linked to my Bangkok Bank account, to allow easy transfer of funds for purchase of coins or the proceeds of the sale of coins.

 

That bank account also holds my salary funds from my teaching job in Myanmar ==> several million baht and growing.

 

It concerns me that some incident involving Bitcoins could lead to my Thai bank account being frozen until I visit Somchai Plod in Bangkok to be 'blackmailed'.

 

I guess it makes sense not to keep one's main funds in the bank account that is linked to your Bitcoin trading account. But I also suspect that if your bank account is frozen by the Thai authorities, then they will also be able to find out (and freeze) other non-related bank accounts in your name.

It's really hard from my distance (not in Thailand) to judge how unusual the sort of experience described in this thread is. Is this a one farang in one hundred kind of thing or one in one hundred thousand? I'm not so concerned with what I'd call petty graft on the part of Thai bureaucrats and the police, but being put in the position of having all one's money grabbed (that they can reach) is a whole different level. 

 

Given the stories here, I just don't see how anyone can consider it prudent to own property or have major assets in Thailand. The rule of law is just not up to providing adequate protection. Sure there are thousands of foreigners who own condos and never have a problem, but do you want to be the one-out-of-however-many who loses major money because of corruption?

 

I wouldn't keep a few million Baht in Thailand if I didn't have to. I'd say open a bank account in another country with better legal protections.

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

It concerns me that some incident involving Bitcoins could lead to my Thai bank account being frozen until I visit Somchai Plod in Bangkok to be 'blackmailed'.

Not exactly an issue confined to Thailand. There's a whole new mini specialization of lawyers in western countries that deal primarily with helping Freddy Farang getting his bank account unfrozen. Not surprising considering the percentage of crypto transactions that are undertaken by drug dealers, money launderers et al.

 

 

 

Quote

Multiple reports have emerged alleging Australian banks to be freezing bank accounts belonging to individuals trading in bitcoin, altcoins, and other digital assets. Following an initial tweet describing the issue on December 28, 2017, other Twitter users have also come forth with similar reports.

https://btcmanager.com/bitcoin-traders-australia-find-bank-accounts-frozen-grounds-suspicious-activity/

 

Quote

Staff at Hong Kong-based cryptocurrency exchange Gatecoin – which allow customers to exchange their digital money for fiat currency – were left perplexed after they received a phone call from a Hang Seng Bank representative on September 15, where they held a company bank account, and were told their account was suspended without a detailed explanation.

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/economy/article/2120506/hong-kongs-bitcoin-businesses-suffer-after-local-bank

   

Quote

    British investors who want to cash out of cryptocurrencies into pounds face the hurdles of having to make international money transfers, being charged high fees and drawing the suspicion of banks.

https://www.ft.com/content/cd13cdce-fa12-11e7-9b32-d7d59aace167

 

Quote

Customers of four major Australian banks are complaining that their cryptocurrency-related transactions are being blocked, according to the Sydney Morning Herald.

https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/news/australian-banks-allegedly-blocking-cryptocurrency-transactions-freezing-accounts/

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

That bank account also holds my salary funds from my teaching job in Myanmar ==> several million baht and growing.

Thanks for sharing. I'm sure everyone is super impressed.

[Siam Bruce]

Why can’t you go to the nearest Thai Embassy/consulate in Canada and make a sworn statement/deposition stating your case exactly like you would do if you were at the Thai Police station.

[keithpa]

Man up, get back to LOS and sort things out.You will feel better for doing it. Running away never solved anything.

[mstevens]

58 minutes ago, Siam Bruce said:

Why can’t you go to the nearest Thai Embassy/consulate in Canada and make a sworn statement/deposition stating your case exactly like you would do if you were at the Thai Police station.

I think it's because the Thai police have a number of questions - and then based on the answers to those questions more subsequent questions and decisions to make on how / whether to proceed etc.  It's not a simple case of just signing a form and submitting it, unfortunately.

[Confuscious]

Send the RTP (police) enclosed picture and forget Thailand (not a big miss anyhow).

 

[KhunFred]

Why take a chance???  Stay out of Thailand.

[snowgard]

To dealing with bitcoins and other crypto money is illegal in Thailand and can be seen in your case (use a bank account from someone other) as money laundering.
 

Not take this case easy because they can apply for a canadian arrest warrant and your extradition: http://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/text-texte.aspx?id=103412&lang=eng

[Inepto Cracy]

Never do anything on a computor that the thieves in brown can take as work, or can bribe you on. Never use any bank account in Tland for the types of cripto transactions described here.

I used a a non discript bank account outside of Tland.

Banks are becomming more and more aware of terror financing, human trafficing and drug money laundrying.

I was very lucky indeed but never again. Easy come difficult to go. Once you are marked, its world wide. Stay very clear from these crypto beasts. The police are getting very good at following trails now. If they can finger you for bribes, they will.

Stay clear. If its too easy to make money, there can be a crook somewhere in the shadows. Nobody is your friend in these dealings, money makes gready dogs out of meek minks.

Bottom line, stay away from here, you are now an easier target than red balls and the stealing monk.

[NorthernRyland]

Reflect back on your 9 years in Thailand and ask yourself,  "do the Thai's respect the law? do they value justice? Were the police fair and just?". The answer is of course, no, not even slightly soiIt would be a huge a risk to trust people who have so little regard for the law and justice in general.

[timewilltell]

20 hours ago, mstevens said:

This is an awkward situation to resolve from outside the country, and even within the country it might be a nightmare.

 

The arrest warrant was issued to force you to the police station to answer questions relating to the case.  That's a standard tactic used by Thai police when they cannot find someone they wish to question.  It means is that if you enter Thailand (at any airport or border crossing), your name will come up as someone who is to be arrested.  From there you would be transported to the police station where the case is being investigated, you may be charged and could be looking at having to post bail to stay out of jail.  Bail could be 100,000 - 200,000 baht.  You would then have to apply for permission to leave Thailand until the case was resolved - and who knows how long that might take?  It might be months, or it might be longer.  Or, who knows, if you were lucky the charges might be dropped or the whole case dropped before you even got there.  That would be the ideal scenario.

 

I have been called a coward in this forum for my attitude towards matters of the law in Thailand but I would not like to find myself entangled in the web that is the Thai justice system.  It's all too messy, very unclear for outsiders and potentially very, very expensive.  It sounds as if you have done nothing wrong, but nonetheless could find yourself stuck in Thailand if you return.

 

If you really wish to return, I'd look at retaining a good lawyer and get them to visit the police on your behalf.  Go for one of the big international firms.  It will cost - could work out at more than you think - but that money would be worth it for peace of mind.

 

Personally, I would not return until you understand what may be waiting for you.  In a worst case scenario you could find yourself trapped in Thailand waiting for the case to play out - and if there are other parties it could drag on and on.  A couple of years or more is not out of the question.  That's why I think you have to get legal help if you wish to return to Thailand.  If you don't have any desire to return to Thailand, arrest warrants lapse after 10 years.

 

Of note, this is, I think, the 3rd report I have read on ThaiVisa from people who have bought or sold BitCoin in Thailand being summoned to report to police.

Excellent advice.  Having been, and still going through what passes through the Thai justice system, I can tell you it is fraught with corruption, scams, uncertain laws that are interpreted in whatever fashion suits and costs an arm and a leg.  Do not come back to this place again.  I would write to the police station in Thai sent via an Canadian law firm and using their address, to give your evidence and then forget Thailand ever exists.  Plenty of other places to go.

 

[Mansell]

I have a good French Canadian lawyer here in Korat if you want to go down that road, he also has Thai lawyers on his staff. You could probably find him doing a search of Nakhon Ratchasima lawyers....if not contact me and I will give you the information. Personally for a paltry 1,000 dollars US I would take Thailand off my bucket list and enjoy any another country. Once you are in the police clutches it doesn't usually end well, only for the police and their wallets. The question you should ask yourself is, do I enjoy my life being free in Canada? Or shall I spend lots of time in a Thai prison telling my self how stubborn and dumb I am to end up in this situation when I had a choice? Good luck.

[JimmyJ]

4 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

It concerns me that some incident involving Bitcoins could lead to my Thai bank account being frozen until I visit Somchai Plod in Bangkok to be 'blackmailed'.

 

I guess it makes sense not to keep one's main funds in the bank account that is linked to your Bitcoin trading account. But I also suspect that if your bank account is frozen by the Thai authorities, then they will also be able to find out (and freeze) other non-related bank accounts in your name.

I thought about this yesterday when I read the thread, but had decided a 2nd account at a different bank would be my choice.

 

"But I also suspect that if your bank account is frozen by the Thai authorities, then they will also be able to find out (and freeze) other non-related bank accounts in your name."

 

It's possible, but based on the constant negative comments here about the Thai cops and infrastructure, it doesn't seem a given and I'd guess it's more likely not to be discovered, as long as you don't link it to other banks in Thailand for transfers etc.

 

 

[crazykopite]

The last thing you want to do is come back to Thailand, continue to communicate by email but don’t come back as you will be locked up and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone .

[JimmyJ]

Bitcoins are not actually anonymous but are more public than fiat, as there is a public ledger called the Blockchain showing every BTC transaction since its inception.

 

The path of the OP's coins can be seen, as well as the path of the coins of the man claiming to have had some stolen.

So the police have a shot at getting a good idea of what has happened if they know what they are doing, which seems unlikely.

 

I would agree with the majority here - returning to Thailand makes no sense.

 

It's unfortunate but it could have ended much worse.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2018 by JimmyJ

[lannarebirth]

Can you do a statutory  declaration at a Thai Embassy/Consulate in Canada? Usually done under oath.

[Timebandit]

1200 CAD.......Fugetaboutit!

[csabo]

Consider Thailand the same way you do North Korea. 

[KKr]

3 hours ago, keithpa said:

Man up, get back to LOS and sort things out.You will feel better for doing it. Running away never solved anything.

did you think this through, or is your nickname Rambo ?