What To Do With My Drive

[JAS21]

We bought the house new in 2005.

 

Parts of the drive has sunk a little. I have 'identified' with white flour where there is a hollow sound when I tap with a hammer. You can see that I have previously carried out a few repairs ... maybe three years ago now. Tapping the crack which is down the middle ... it doesn't sound hollow and it has been there a long time

 

Basically the problem seems to be around the edges. The correct way will be to dig the lot up and pile BUT I won't do that.

 

I've had suggestions ... like put 4*4 steels around the edges ... mesh between and concrete ... Am thinking about digging up the damaged areas and filling with either concrete or a dry mix. But what to put on top to make all look okay, the house wasn't cheap so the job has got to look good. Some while ago I paid someone to relay an area by the gates ... it didn't stick .

 

One option is to top it with blocks ... not sure if I can get thinner ones than what we used at the side.

 

P.S. the oil droppings are from my wife's old Mazda Lantis ... crankshaft oil seals want changing ...

 

Please some suggestions ..................

Edited May 11, 2018 by JAS21

[Lamkyong]

only solution to what    is very bad prep   rip it all up and do a proper job   do you worry about the pillars and the foundations under them   remove all surface concrete  and dig small explority holes to inspect

[bankruatsteve]

It looks like water ingress (a lot?) around the area of the step.  I suggest finding the source of that and if landscaping could prevent.  Then find a good contractor for thoughts/quote on repair.

[JAS21]

2 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

It looks like water ingress (a lot?) around the area of the step.  I suggest finding the source of that and if landscaping could prevent.  Then find a good contractor for thoughts/quote on repair.

You could very well be correct. We don't have gutters and a huge amount of water 'cascades' down onto that area. The other side to a lesser extent. Over the 14+ years that water could have run anywhere and taken the 'whatever is in it's way with it ... That is why I suggested digging up those areas and 'filling'. If water is the cause we fully understand it must be sorted.

 

Mrs J looked at the plan of the piles and they are all to the same load of fifteen tons ... 20M is the norm in our area. She is not dim on building work as her father was a Master Builder ... unfortunately he is no longer above ground .... There are no cracks in any walls ... well just the very odd hairline...

 

Am extending the carport another six meters down the drive, should have done it years ago ... will bear in mind the water cascade problem. Maybe an idea to get some white plastic guttering put up ...

 

Really want suggestions as to what to 'top' the present drive with ..... I think laying blocks could be an option ... MrsJ and myself laid the ones that you can see ...

Edited May 11, 2018 by JAS21

[cooked]

Looks like inadequate thickness of concrete to me, I'm betting you can break through it easily with a pick axe. Laying blocks on top of that might be disappointing if the foundations are weak. 

On the other hand you might be bale to get away with digging out the inadequate concrete and filling it in properly. That would hold for a few years.

[oldwelshman]

Rubbish prep, which seems to be the case all the time in Thailand. the concrete should be laid on a compacted substrate base then rebar in the concrete and cut expansion slot in the concrete.

At the edge they just slapped thick concrete filler and below that has cracked and moved to the fillets had no chance.

I would rip the lot up, put substrate down, then sharp sand and lay the nice block paviers you have on the side. They are easy to maintain even if they sink, lift and put more sand!!

btw where did you get them? I am very reluctant to concrete 200 sqm for a drive I plan to do as the land is infilled (no idea why thais obsessed with land infill) and sure to settle no matter how much I whack it so I would like to get hose paviers but very difficult to find in LOS.

[JAS21]

1 hour ago, oldwelshman said:

Rubbish prep, which seems to be the case all the time in Thailand. the concrete should be laid on a compacted substrate base then rebar in the concrete and cut expansion slot in the concrete.

At the edge they just slapped thick concrete filler and below that has cracked and moved to the fillets had no chance.

I would rip the lot up, put substrate down, then sharp sand and lay the nice block paviers you have on the side. They are easy to maintain even if they sink, lift and put more sand!!

btw where did you get them? I am very reluctant to concrete 200 sqm for a drive I plan to do as the land is infilled (no idea why thais obsessed with land infill) and sure to settle no matter how much I whack it so I would like to get hose paviers but very difficult to find in LOS.

HomeMart ... quite a few years ago now though, you could also try Thaiwatsadu

 

The drive has been down at lease thirteen years it really is only the edges ... I think ... that are a problem... I'll hook them up and see  what's below,  maybe very little as what was there has probably made it's way to under the house ...  there is only one crack in the main section and that is not exactly wide as can be seen and it has been there a long time ... I am reluctant to dig it all up ... that is a last resort ...

 

The surface is level except for the edges in places ... but it had dropped somewhat... thanks

 

I have noticed that a number of people in the village have 'fiddled' with there drives ...

[r136dg]

Sorry to say, x2 on what others said; tear out & replace properly. 

It may be deceiving from the pics, but I see a problem with your driveways slope. If you have a decent long level, work your way across the base of that step, than do that again every meter or so all the way to the base of your gate. Or better yet, have someone help you shoot heights with a laser level.

If more slope is needed you could raise the new drive to the same height as that step, and/or drop it at your gate (appears there's a sharp drop from gate to street). Also raise the landscaping if need be.

[r136dg]

9 hours ago, JAS21 said:

The surface is level except for the edges in places ... but it had dropped somewhat

You don't want level! Water has to be able to consistently drain away from your house, down the driveway, preferably off the property with little to no resistance!

[BEVUP]

4 hours ago, r136dg said:

Sorry to say, x2 on what others said; tear out & replace properly. 

It may be deceiving from the pics, but I see a problem with your driveways slope. If you have a decent long level, work your way across the base of that step, than do that again every meter or so all the way to the base of your gate. Or better yet, have someone help you shoot heights with a laser level.

If more slope is needed you could raise the new drive to the same height as that step, and/or drop it at your gate (appears there's a sharp drop from gate to street). Also raise the landscaping if need be.

Yes that's my thought to

Raise it to that step height & try to get a slight fall to the gate maintaining a minimum of 4 " vvith some decent rio 

Also raise that small path 

I reckon just lay straight over the top if you put good concrete & a reasonable amount of rio in 

Drill some bits of rio in to hold into existing drive

PS : You vvill no doubt have to beef up the edges

 

They maybe used that fence vvire they just lay dovvn& pull back up once the concrete is in

Edited May 12, 2018 by BEVUP

[khunPer]

I agree with the ones suggesting to tear out and replace, with a proper thick layer of concrete with some steel reinforcement; and also make sure rainwater can run off, and not undermine the new cement deck.

[masterpasser]

Absolutely don't need rebar. 

Reinforcement serves no purpose unless the concrete is subject to bending and the associated tensile stresses .

Steel reinforcement only necessary for suspended slabs - Gatwick airport  concrete runway is un- reinforced how do I know ? I was an engineer that worked on it.

Its all about ensuring the founding layer is compacted properly  - All the soft spots should be  dug out and replaced with quality backfill. 

Then a layer of  compacted hardcore or crushed rock.

Normal top shelf construction would require a layer of dry lean concrete next.

Then the paving quality concrete would be cast in panels , laid to falls.

Fully loaded 747's have land on this slab construction since the 70's.

[Megasin1]

You have some differential settlement and probably a poor substrate, hence the years of rainwater have probably washed some away below, causing areas to drop. Unfortunately just laying over the top won't do any good as you are then using something that is moving as your base, which will just lead to the same. Depending on your budget you could do a temporary fix whereby you just dig up the areas that have dropped and replace them with concrete and a fresh topping material, however the posters who have told you to get it all up are giving you the best advice if you have the budget. For the rainwater run-off you don't really want it going over the sides as a previous poster pointed out you want it all going out onto the road so that the road drainage system can deal with it. A fall of 1:100 should be sufficient to shed the water in the right direction. I can appreciate that you don't want to go overboard as it is just a drive, however if you drop a reinforcement mesh into your new concrete base (assuming you opt to renew) it will help strengthen the concrete to bridge any future soil movement. Ensure when your contractor lays the mesh that you have 50mm of bottom or top cover and 40mm of edge cover. If you are only extending the roof out with a lightweight structure then you can extend your reinforced slab to carry this too at the post points, however bare in mind that when you build your roof you will once again alter the rainwater shedding and think about where this rainwater will go and what it will affect.

[Lacessit]

13 years for Thai construction? That's about average. Unless the driveway is removing the sump of your car, or flooding the house, do nothing. Relax. Mai bpen rai.

Perhaps it's time for a head count of fussbudgets on Thai Visa.

[Formaleins]

Think yourself lucky that you got 13 years out of it! I have seen some Thai building work around my place that is in a worse state than yours in less than 13 months.

If I were you I would get it dug up and then dig down and put a decent base in there - When I did my foundations for my house I went down about 1.5 metres until we hit sand, the filled about 60CM with large granite stone (about 6" pieces) on top of that we put another 40cm of small granite gravel, followed by about 30CM of sand before even starting to add concrete - I did this to try to help drainage as my soils is actually clay for about 2 feet or so, then it becomes sandy. When the rains come the clay becomes waterlogged and turns like glue. After using gravel and stone as a ballast, we have never had standing water again.

[mogandave]

Were it me I would buy a good pressure washer, clean it up, pack up any wash out and patch it as best I could.

If you want to extend the carport you can saw-cut for the footings.

My concern with tearing it out and redoing it would be getting a better job done than you already have. There are some good concrete contractors around, but it’s been my experience they generally focus on bigger jobs.

[JAS21]

Thanks guys for all your suggestions ... I am mulling them over.  I removed part of one edge earlier today ... You can see that 'something' has dropped ... probably 5-6 cms. That agrees with the difference between the path and the 'stop tripping' hazard I  did a few years ago.

 

I have lost some of the driveway fall .... although sideways things are pretty level. No major cracks in the main part of the drive...................except that shown near the pillar #1

 

The concrete that you can see which is below that which I have taken up has an upwards slope towards the wall ...

 

We are planning to extend the carport  down to the gate ... After that little water should land directly onto the  driveway ... even now none reaches where I have had a little dig. I will use a lightweight roofing material which doesn't need much steel work ... Holo roofing as per my shed.

 

Probably a good idea to could construct something to stop rainwater onto the drive.

 

Mrs J's nephew is the guy who I would like to get another opinion from ... but he is busy seven days a week building a hotel ... on site all day ... he also has contracts road building ... I don't hold out a lot of hope in that direction though.

 

Presently, as someone suggested, I'm tempted to just take up the damaged edging and replace. As the edging doesn't often get loaded am wondering about using some lightweight material for some of the thickness.

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2018 by JAS21

[masuk]

On 5/11/2018 at 2:14 PM, JAS21 said:

You could very well be correct. We don't have gutters and a huge amount of water 'cascades' down onto that area. The other side to a lesser extent. Over the 14+ years that water could have run anywhere and taken the 'whatever is in it's way with it ... That is why I suggested digging up those areas and 'filling'. If water is the cause we fully understand it must be sorted.

 

Mrs J looked at the plan of the piles and they are all to the same load of fifteen tons ... 20M is the norm in our area. She is not dim on building work as her father was a Master Builder ... unfortunately he is no longer above ground .... There are no cracks in any walls ... well just the very odd hairline...

 

Am extending the carport another six meters down the drive, should have done it years ago ... will bear in mind the water cascade problem. Maybe an idea to get some white plastic guttering put up ...

 

Really want suggestions as to what to 'top' the present drive with ..... I think laying blocks could be an option ... MrsJ and myself laid the ones that you can see ...

I was amazed when I first came to Asia, to see rainwater falling off roofs and into footings, foundations, gardens.  It causes a lot of damage, apart from soaking anyone trying to make a dash in the rain to get inside.    False economy in my opinion.

[mogandave]

Can you saw-cut the edges, pack under it and just put it back down?

Large paving stones as it were...

[mogandave]

I was amazed when I first came to Asia, to see rainwater falling off roofs and into footings, foundations, gardens.  It causes a lot of damage, apart from soaking anyone trying to make a dash in the rain to get inside.    False economy in my opinion.

Yeah, they do not do gutters very well here. There is a company in Kantchanaburi that has portable roll-mills that can roll full-length SS gutter to order at site.

[JungleBiker]

12 hours ago, masterpasser said:

Absolutely don't need rebar. 

Reinforcement serves no purpose unless the concrete is subject to bending and the associated tensile stresses .

Steel reinforcement only necessary for suspended slabs - Gatwick airport  concrete runway is un- reinforced how do I know ? I was an engineer that worked on it.

Its all about ensuring the founding layer is compacted properly  - All the soft spots should be  dug out and replaced with quality backfill. 

Then a layer of  compacted hardcore or crushed rock.

Normal top shelf construction would require a layer of dry lean concrete next.

Then the paving quality concrete would be cast in panels , laid to falls.

Fully loaded 747's have land on this slab construction since the 70's.

 

The OP will also need to make his drive wider to park a 747.

[JungleBiker]

8 hours ago, masuk said:

I was amazed when I first came to Asia, to see rainwater falling off roofs and into footings, foundations, gardens.  It causes a lot of damage, apart from soaking anyone trying to make a dash in the rain to get inside.    False economy in my opinion.

 

But during the heavy downpours you can get here in the tropics, isn't there a risk that the gutters will overflow and the water damage the fascia behind the gutter? 

[JAS21]

2 minutes ago, JungleBiker said:

 

But during the heavy downpours you can get here in the tropics, isn't there a risk that the gutters will overflow and the water damage the fascia behind the gutter? 

If sloped correctly and down pipes positioned correctly then no..Our house has a  conwood facia.

 

I fitted guttering to the area at the back of the house ..single level...rainwater from the high roof lands on it...gutterings never fill.

 

Of course if your down pipes block ...

[mogandave]

If sloped correctly and down pipes positioned correctly then no..Our house has a  conwood facia.
 
I fitted guttering to the area at the back of the house ..single level...rainwater from the high roof lands on it...gutterings never fill.
 
Of course if your down pipes block ...

Yeah, they have to be sized and installed correctly.