Court decides: AirBnB illegal in Thailand for daily and weekly rental

[BobbyL]

I cannot see how this will ever be enforced.

 

I live in a relatively high level condo off Sukhumvit. They have signs in the lobby and the lifts saying daily and weekly rentals are not allowed, yet there are numerous rooms being rented out on Air BnB. 

 

I got chatting to a guy in the gym not long ago who was staying with his bird and their friends and they were renting out three rooms in the building through Air Bnb for 5 days. 

[madmitch]

3 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

Illegal for all or just Farangs !  it’s like the electricity charges here where I live the Thais are charging between 6 and 10 baht per KW used  yet a law was passed earlier this year stating electricity charges should be charged as per PEA pricing but it appears no one is taking any notice. 

There's always one! 

 

It doesn't say anywhere but I'd guess the Court decision relates to Thais.

[hobobo]

17 hours ago, MaxLee said:

First UBER and now AirBnB...... 

Whatever next? Farangs?

[Peterw42]

None of this is new, its always been illegal to do short-term rental unless you are hotel and there have been many reports of people being charged with illegal hotel etc. 

The court case is just someone challenging the existing law, and they lost.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2018 by Peterw42

[theguyfromanotherforum]

15 hours ago, observer90210 said:

The Thai Hoteliers mafia has apparently done the right P+R,  to the proper people...

 

If you own a condo in this country to live in (I don't), you should be welcoming this "news".

 

Who wants their building to be turned into a ghetto and significantly lower the value in 10 years?

 

Now, owners just need to worry about construction quality, maintenance, electrical hazards, leaks, bugs and insects........ 

[madmitch]

I have a number of comments:

 

According to Maestro, the attached document is not the original Court decision. Without this, or a translation for most on here, including me,  we don't actually know the basis of the ruling. I note there is no mention of Airbnb in the document. We don't know if it relates to condo-owners that in breach of their terms and conditions or also house-owners. Does the illegality refer to the letting out of rooms on a short-term basis per se or does the ruling take into account the fact that it's a breach of the condominium terms and conditions?

 

Airbnb in itself cannot be illegal. They are only selling a product that they do not own, in the same way as Booking.com, Agoda and many others, not to forget Lazada and Alibaba. In fact many guesthouse and hotel owners use Airbnb as a channel for selling their rooms. The aforementioned online agents, together with Expedia, also offer more and more apartments on their websites. 

 

Illegal in Thailand is not the same as illegal in many other countries! The authorities are forever commenting on the number of illegal hotels in operation in Thailand but what's done about it? Not very much, just the odd token raid closing three or four of the many thousands of unlicensed hotels. Will this ruling stop Airbnb users?

 

Last year I used Airbnb to rent in Japan. It's a great option for expensive cities. At the time, it was illegal in Japan to rent on a short term basis. The owners were quite discreet about it, asking me not to put the address on the arrival card, not interacting with the security or reception staff. This ruling has now been changed in many Japanese cities as they probably realised they were fighting a battle they weren't going to win. And this is in a country where the law is enforced rather more strongly than Thailand.

 

Many people run proper Airbnb businesses, owning several condos and renting them out. They're not just going to allow their businesses to die. I don't think the threat of a 5,000 baht fine plus 500 baht for a probably arbitrary number of occupancy days will be scaring them just yet.

 

As someone stated, Thailand does not use precedents in its legal system. One Court decision does not influence another (brown envelopes are used instead). It's early days.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

7 minutes ago, madmitch said:

This ruling has now been changed in many Japanese cities as they probably realised they were fighting a battle they weren't going to win. And this is in a country where the law is enforced rather more strongly than Thailand.

 

This ruling can be challenged, but every building has the right to ban AirBnb and short term rentals. I know in Toronto short term rentals are allowed, but in my building and many others downtown rentals under 6 months are not allowed. Hence the guests are stuck staying in houses, shared rooms, ghettos and undesirable locations.

Edited May 17, 2018 by theguyfromanotherforum

[madmitch]

Just now, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

This ruling can be challenged, but every building has the right to ban AirBnb and short term rentals. I know in Toronto short term rentals are allowed, but in my building and many others downtown rentals under 6 months are not allowed. Hence the guests are stuck staying in houses, shared rooms, ghettos and undesirable locations.

Of course. You agree to the condominium terms and conditions and whatever the rules in general, they would take precedence.

[Orac]

31 minutes ago, BobbyL said:

I cannot see how this will ever be enforced.

 

I live in a relatively high level condo off Sukhumvit. They have signs in the lobby and the lifts saying daily and weekly rentals are not allowed, yet there are numerous rooms being rented out on Air BnB. 

 

I got chatting to a guy in the gym not long ago who was staying with his bird and their friends and they were renting out three rooms in the building through Air Bnb for 5 days. 

 

Depends if they try and enforce it - not exactly rocket science for one of the many enforcement agencies here to turn up at a condo and then check ab&b for rooms for rent in it.

[IamNoone88]

By the same argument, they should be closing down thousands of the unlicensed guest houses and small hotels throughout Thailand that do not have a hotel license issued and provide the same daily/weekly service.

[Peterw42]

40 minutes ago, BobbyL said:

I cannot see how this will ever be enforced.

its already being enforced, if you read the thread below.

 

"The arrest was the result of a sting with an officer posing as a client."

 

 

 

 

[Peterw42]

8 minutes ago, IamNoone88 said:

By the same argument, they should be closing down thousands of the unlicensed guest houses and small hotels throughout Thailand that do not have a hotel license issued and provide the same daily/weekly service.

There is an exception in the Hotel act that allows 3-4 rooms above a shop house etc. In the past people have to tried to interpret this exception to apply to condos.

[garzhe]

17 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

The court decision is about condos because the cases brought to court were about condos. It does not necessarily mean that the law cited in the court decision does no also apply to other types of residential premises. Perhaps someone can look up the law and post the relevant section here (I have to rush off now to a dentist appointment)

Any property that has more than 4 rooms for rent requires a hotel licence. This seems to be the issue. An individual house for rent with less than 4 rent able rooms does not require a hotel licence. The developers wont like this as many are selling condos on the strength of rental income.

[Bangkok Barry]

18 hours ago, MaxLee said:

First UBER and now AirBnB...... 

 

and Bridge, and playing darts without a licence, and electronic cigarettes, and shisha pipes......

[gwynt]

Strange this, I am currently staying at a small apartment inBKK renting by the day the building is owned and run by government dept???

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, garzhe said:

Any property that has more than 4 rooms for rent requires a hotel licence. This seems to be the issue. An individual house for rent with less than 4 rent able rooms does not require a hotel licence. The developers wont like this as many are selling condos on the strength of rental income.

I have never seen a developer that sells specifically on the strength of short term rental, they sell on broad rental returns, ie: 10% return on long term legal rental.

[Spock]

I just booked an airbnb room in Bangkok last night in a condo for 18 nights beginning the end of June. The money has already been taken from my account. Can only hope that my stay is not affected. Never used airbnb before. Chose a bad time to try it.

[RichardColeman]

17 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

The court decision is about condos because the cases brought to court were about condos. It does not necessarily mean that the law cited in the court decision does no also apply to other types of residential premises. Perhaps someone can look up the law and post the relevant section here (I have to rush off now to a dentist appointment)

Probably as foreigners own more condos than houses and they don't want them making an income above Thai owned hotels.

[Baerboxer]

18 hours ago, Briggsy said:

I thought Thailand's legal system did not use precedents. Therefore another court could rule completely differently and it would make no difference. Indeed the same court could rule differently with another Air BnB landlord.

 

They seemingly use precedents, and refer to them, when it suits. And ignore them completely and rule opposite when it suits!

 

 

[newnative]

18 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

This court decision does not affect only rentals via AirBnN. All rentals for a period shorter than 30 days are termed illegal.

Correct.  Illegal whether you use Airbnb, a local agent, or directly from the condo owner.

[4MyEgo]

Air B&B advertise the potential restrictions to hosts, if they are wiling to read and comply well them, all and good: https://www.airbnb.com.au/help/article/376/what-legal-and-regulatory-issues-should-i-consider-before-hosting-on-airbnb

 

I have used Air B&B a couple of times, once recently in Pattaya, i,e, we rented a 2 bedroom condominium, which was 20,000 baht cheaper than a hotel, with 4 kids I would have to pay for 2 or 3 rooms, or two rooms with 2 extra beds as allowed in some hotels, and pay an additional 800-1200 baht per bed on top of the 2 rooms, hotels are not family friendly in my opinion, so what are families supposed to do.

 

In a suburb of Sydney I rent a 2 bedroom 100m2 apartment with parking for a week for 41,000 baht, now for the same amount I would get a 22m2 room in a hotel in the neighbouring suburb with no parking, and kids can share the same bedding because there is no room for extra beds, unless you want to pay for another room.

 

Its obvious the hotels are playing big to shut Air B&B, personally if Air B&B gets the boot in Thailand, we will holiday at home from now on as I won't be supporting them until they make their hotel rooms family friendly, i.e. without the ridiculous additional bed charges, after all, you are renting the room, and they should accommodate you with the extra beds for your kids, what a rip off, oh don't get me wrong, can afford to pay for the hotel, but why should I when Air B&B is much fairer in value for what you get.

 

Hotels need to get their acts together, and personally I hope Air B&B is here to stay, the hotels on the other hand should become more competitive, that's how its done in the open market, and how the hell does a court have jurisdiction over how you rent your property, unless its in some strata scheme or by-law, you should be free to rent it out short or long term, as long as you pay your tax.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2018 by 4MyEgo

[peter14]

20 hours ago, MaxLee said:

First UBER and now AirBnB...... 

Thailand  0.5   ... (4.0)   ... ...  The country is xxxx

[newnative]

16 hours ago, observer90210 said:

The Thai Hoteliers mafia has apparently done the right P+R,  to the proper people...

Finally!

[mokwit]

6 hours ago, diddygq said:

You obviously have never used AirBnB's in Thailand or anywhere for that matter. They are generally nicer and cheaper than most hotels. I use AirBnB every couple months to rent out a brand new, super modern condo in Hua Hin/Cha Am. It has two rooms, two bathrooms, living room, and a full western kitchen. 1,200 baht after the service charge and cleaning fee. Usually there are 4 or 5 of us so at 200-300 baht per person it's cheaper than a hostel. 

"Usually there are 4 or 5 of us so at 200-300 baht per person it's cheaper than a hostel"

 

Exactly one of the problems with AirBnB type lets - it turns a condo building that is your home into something that feels like living in a youth hostel.

[newnative]

12 hours ago, Get Real said:

Really funny! I would like to see what they bese that judgement on. Since when is Thai law as specific so it separates days, weeks and month.
The law has not even uppdated since Internet was invented. How much more crazy does it have to be? Can they make a bigger fool out of themselfs?

    The internet isn't the point.  Condo rentals of less than 30 days are illegal regardless of how the rental was secured. 

[Belzybob]

18 hours ago, Chang_paarp said:

This could be interesting if AirBnB weigh into the appeal process. I suspect they were not involved in the original case.

Its really nothing to do with AirBnB, as they haven't made AirBnB illegal, they have just confirmed the existing laws: " The court ruled that people renting out their rooms on a daily and weekly basis contravened regulations surrounding hotels. " Anything less than  thirty days requires a hotel licence.

[mickymouse1]

Simply sign a 31 days rental agreement.There is no law to prevent people from physically staying the entire contract period.Still there are ways to get round it.

This is similar to bureaucratic rules that force some people to resort to BRIBERY ?

[newnative]

6 hours ago, diddygq said:

You obviously have never used AirBnB's in Thailand or anywhere for that matter. They are generally nicer and cheaper than most hotels. I use AirBnB every couple months to rent out a brand new, super modern condo in Hua Hin/Cha Am. It has two rooms, two bathrooms, living room, and a full western kitchen. 1,200 baht after the service charge and cleaning fee. Usually there are 4 or 5 of us so at 200-300 baht per person it's cheaper than a hostel. 

Oh, my!  5 of you cheapskates packed into a 2 bedroom condo--and you wonder why regular condo residents don't want you invading their residence.  Residence...not hotel.

[connda]

It's interesting what the Thai government chooses to over-regulate as opposed to under-regulate.  Don't get me wrong.  Part of the reason I live here is to get away for the rampant, in-your-face, over-regulation that is a hallmark of the West.  However, here the regulation often seems to be in response to protecting wealthy business owners and other elites interests.  I'm thinking that this is the case here. 

[Docno]

19 hours ago, shady86 said:

How can they regulate this? Airbnb is not located in Thailand and acting as a middle man. There is no money transaction done between owner and tenant too.

AirBnB is already illegal in Singapore. That doesn't prevent people from still participating in it. However, there have already been high profile (and successful) prosecutions in the last couple of months of people who ignore the law. Singapore's rationale is that hotels are tightly regulated and AirBnB rent-outs don't meet the regulatory requirements. It's the property owner who 'pays the price' if charged...