ttrd Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, BobBKK said: Ok Let's be specific. You are required to have a Hotel License to rent out rooms below 30 days. Condotels have thought ahead and are usually registered as a Hotel. I doubt anyone is interested in private houses as they don't really compete against hotels as condos do and owners specifically buy condos to rent out. I have several condos and I won't rent them out under a one year lease but I know several owners that do and: they use my staff (condo staff) for paperwork, keys, questions, directions and all the rest and pay nothing for this extra service there customers are all over the pool, litter, noisy and generally a pain new security PINs have to be entered into the system Security guards do not know them leading to them ignoring strangers in the condo as there are so many maintenance get called for all sorts of issues the owner should deal with - but they are absent they do not know the building rules and break them (i.e. non-access areas like rooftops, parking, common area etc.) If you are a condo owner, and are not in business, you will be against short term lettings. If you are an owner who wants to maximize your investment you will argue for short term lettings and you will break the law to do so. I am a condo owner and I stay with the law. RE- I doubt anyone is interested in private houses as they don't really compete against hotels as condos do and owners specifically buy condos to rent out. This was more or less correct up to now as before the most of the houses were occupied by the original owners or rented out on a long term (1 month or longer). But this has changed and now it is big business renting out villas on a short term basis which means that for each villa 3 or 4 bedrooms the hotels loose accordingly 3 or 4 bookings of double rooms and if you make a search on AirBnB for HH or Phuket there are several hundred of houses for rent on each location on a short term basis - subleased by real estate agencies and/or private persons... Edited May 21, 2018 by ttrd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newnative Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 12 hours ago, Cadbury said: Hotels are allowed to sell "short time" rooms so why not condos? Seriously? Hotels are in the business of short-term room renting. That IS their business so of course they are 'allowed'. . Condos, to begin with, are not a business. They are residences. For residents. Not vacationers here for a day or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airalee Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 2 hours ago, xylophone said: So those establishments can legally let out short stay rooms and nothing other owners can do about it? There is another “catch” with Condotels. In most of the ones I have seen, it’s not so much that the developer has kept any certain number of units for themselves, but it is basically a hotel where you buy the unit and then the management company rents it out on your behalf (deducting their fees of course). As an owner, you do not get full use of your unit and may only be permitted to stay there for a prespecified number of days per year with the remaining days reserved for hotel rentals (whether it sits empty or not). I have seen some where all the “owner” gets is 30 days per year. You are however on the hook for HOA dues every month. So...from what I have seen, it’s like a timeshare...only worse ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newnative Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 11 hours ago, Vermor said: But what if the developper has an hotel license ?! It's not what the developer has, it's what the condo has. Most are registered at the Land Office as condominiums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newnative Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 11 hours ago, connda said: Welcome to the LOS where the powers to be protect the hotel industry monopoly from all the cheeky upstart 'mom and pop' outfits that threaten to nibble at the fringes of their profits centers. That is not what this is about and it's not unique to Thailand. I expected--and hoped--the hotel industry to be a lot more vocal in Pattaya than it has been. Haven't heard a peep. Around the world it's more a case of protecting the rights of residents--who didn't sign up to live in a hotel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericthai Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 12 hours ago, Cadbury said: Hotels are allowed to sell "short time" rooms so why not condos? because they have a hotel license. Condos are not hotels! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newnative Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 10 hours ago, peterquixote said: I completely sympathise with people in Condos suffering this influx of strays. I rent here in Bangkok, and because Thais don't swim much I have the pool to myself about 2pm. My contract will say no sub letting, I imagine and it is finger print entry to the building. Fingerprint entry would help quite a bit in curtailing the illegal daily rentals if the condo project limited changing the fingerprints linked to a condo to once a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericthai Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 25 minutes ago, Airalee said: There is another “catch” with Condotels. In most of the ones I have seen, it’s not so much that the developer has kept any certain number of units for themselves, but it is basically a hotel where you buy the unit and then the management company rents it out on your behalf (deducting their fees of course). As an owner, you do not get full use of your unit and may only be permitted to stay there for a prespecified number of days per year with the remaining days reserved for hotel rentals (whether it sits empty or not). I have seen some where all the “owner” gets is 30 days per year. You are however on the hook for HOA dues every month. So...from what I have seen, it’s like a timeshare...only worse ? this sounds more like a time share scheme! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newnative Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 6 hours ago, BobBKK said: Ok Let's be specific. You are required to have a Hotel License to rent out rooms below 30 days. Condotels have thought ahead and are usually registered as a Hotel. I doubt anyone is interested in private houses as they don't really compete against hotels as condos do and owners specifically buy condos to rent out. I have several condos and I won't rent them out under a one year lease but I know several owners that do and: they use my staff (condo staff) for paperwork, keys, questions, directions and all the rest and pay nothing for this extra service there customers are all over the pool, litter, noisy and generally a pain new security PINs have to be entered into the system Security guards do not know them leading to them ignoring strangers in the condo as there are so many maintenance get called for all sorts of issues the owner should deal with - but they are absent they do not know the building rules and break them (i.e. non-access areas like rooftops, parking, common area etc.) If you are a condo owner, and are not in business, you will be against short term lettings. If you are an owner who wants to maximize your investment you will argue for short term lettings and you will break the law to do so. I am a condo owner and I stay with the law. Wonderfully written and I agree completely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airalee Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, ericthai said: this sounds more like a time share scheme! I think it might even be worse than a timeshare. The more “creative” real estate “investments” get, the more I want to avoid them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newnative Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 2 hours ago, xylophone said: So those establishments can legally let out short stay rooms and nothing other owners can do about it? Once a condo is registered at the Land Office it is legally a condominium. A buyer's contract should have indicated in writing that he was buying a condominium. Once a condominium is registered at the Land Office it is legally a condominium and not anything else. To de-register as a condominium would take a large vote of the owners, if I am not mistaken. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTuner Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 1 hour ago, ttrd said: But this has changed and now it is big business renting out villas on a short term basis which means that for each villa 3 or 4 bedrooms the hotels loose accordingly 3 or 4 bookings of double rooms and if you make a search on AirBnB for HH or Phuket there are several hundred of houses for rent on each location on a short term basis - subleased by real estate agencies and/or private persons... I was given the information by the agent while looking at houses that Chinese had established Thai companies (likely with the usual nominees) and bought houses just for renting them out short term. I doubt they are in airbnb but probably in direct cohorts with the 0.00001$ tour operators. This might well trigger a domino effect on the illegal "company ownership" farangs have used to bypass land ownership rules in the past, once hotel operators have had enough and they finally start cracking down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttrd Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, DrTuner said: I was given the information by the agent while looking at houses that Chinese had established Thai companies (likely with the usual nominees) and bought houses just for renting them out short term. I doubt they are in airbnb but probably in direct cohorts with the 0.00001$ tour operators. This might well trigger a domino effect on the illegal "company ownership" farangs have used to bypass land ownership rules in the past, once hotel operators have had enough and they finally start cracking down. Yes, it seems to be forced to come - what we have seen so far with just a few condo cases may just be the beginning of something bigger.... Japan have seriously put the foot down, Europe have started and as well US where the AirBnB have their headquarter have also made reactions... This is what was written back in September 2016 - could be interesting to see updated figures of AirBnB vs Hotels... http://www.colliers.com/-/media/files/apac/thailand/research/airbnb in thailand and around the world_lr.pdf Edited May 21, 2018 by ttrd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KittenKong Posted May 21, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2018 In my village (Jomtien) there is a large house which has an absent owner who lives in Bangkok. He has decided that it is more profitable to advertise and rent out his house on weekends and call it a "Villa". On weekends we have sometimes 8 or more cars pulling up and partying there into the wee hours. How can that nonsense in our private residential village be stopped ? He charges about 12,000 baht per night and the place is packed every weekend. That's not what I bought into when I moved into this village 15 years ago. You should get together with other concerned owners (the more the better) and should report the matter in person to the local Public Health department in City Hall in Pattaya. They are responsible for noise complaints. Take proper records of all dates and times, and if possible photographic or video evidence (people, cars etc). If you have called 1337 to complain about the noise (which you should, every time it happens) then also take records of all calls made. At the same time I would report it to the Mayor's office in the same building, and to local media. You could also report the address, with full details of dates and times, to the local revenue department as the odds are no tax has been paid on this illegal activity. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittenKong Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 So how does a condotel work here in Thailand? As far as I know the only legal condotels here have been built as largely independent structures, with one part being a hotel and the other part being a condo. The hotel building and its grounds and facilities should be separate to the condo part, and the accounting is also handled completely separately. Condominiums, by the very nature of their legal structure, cannot operate hotels. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Andersen Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 15 hours ago, lucjoker said: the law.......since 2006.......5555 More and more partyhouses pop up in residential areas.( just look on FB and internet sides).....with the help of the orbotor (mayor) and the police . You just greese a litle bit .....and do what you want . All your neighbours can complain what they want ......you will win. It makes about 300 000 bht a month , so 30 000 for the greesing...nice profit. The cleanup team are low paid illigals ,no pombem. The law ? What a joke . You are so wrong but yes bad people are always there but now big crack down and it is good for normal people I see big change here in jomtien and meny are happy few are sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KonaRain Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 20 hours ago, NextStationBangkok said: What about rural community home stay and farm stay in the north ? Just make it a month at a weekly price.. tourists will catch on in a few years.. "monthly only Thailand" No problem Aloha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadbury Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 7 hours ago, ericthai said: because they have a hotel license. Condos are not hotels! Really! You don't say......oh wise one. Sometime in your dull and boring life you might get to learn for yourself first hand what the term "short time" hotel room refers to. Then you might realise I was only being facetious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadbury Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 8 hours ago, newnative said: Seriously? Hotels are in the business of short-term room renting. That IS their business so of course they are 'allowed'. . Condos, to begin with, are not a business. They are residences. For residents. Not vacationers here for a day or two. Thank you ever so much for that most valuable information. I note that dry humour is not part of your life. If you had a smidge of it would realise I was only being facetious when referring to "short time" hotel room. I suggest you find out in a practical way the meaning of the term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Crank Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Not enforceable, next topic... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newnative Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 56 minutes ago, Cadbury said: Thank you ever so much for that most valuable information. I note that dry humour is not part of your life. If you had a smidge of it would realise I was only being facetious when referring to "short time" hotel room. I suggest you find out in a practical way the meaning of the term. I know the meaning of the term and I enjoy dry humor--when it's there. Apparently, at least one other poster was also left unamused. Remember, with Thai Visa, and this subject, it was more likely the poster was dead serious. Along the lines of: "Farmers can raise pigs on their farms so why can't I raise pigs in my condo?" 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBKK Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 12 hours ago, xylophone said: So those establishments can legally let out short stay rooms and nothing other owners can do about it? I believe that to be the case however there have been cases of condos calling themselves 'condotels' without a licence, as always, DYOR and good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 On 5/21/2018 at 7:55 AM, nobodysfriend said: I understand your point of view , but please be aware that there are Thai people who rent out their properties short term , too . That new law should apply to foreigners and thai than ... What Thais do in their own country is for them to sort out. I'm only referring to foreigners of any origin that buy property in LOS without intending to live in it, as they distort property prices and cause problems as the OP is pointing out. The housing problems in my own country are caused by foreigners doing just the same as is happening in LOS, except in my country, the government allows them to buy the land as well, which affects houses, as there is no ( to my knowledge ) condo culture there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xylophone Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 10 hours ago, Airalee said: There is another “catch” with Condotels. In most of the ones I have seen, it’s not so much that the developer has kept any certain number of units for themselves, but it is basically a hotel where you buy the unit and then the management company rents it out on your behalf (deducting their fees of course). As an owner, you do not get full use of your unit and may only be permitted to stay there for a prespecified number of days per year with the remaining days reserved for hotel rentals (whether it sits empty or not). I have seen some where all the “owner” gets is 30 days per year. You are however on the hook for HOA dues every month. So...from what I have seen, it’s like a timeshare...only worse ? Interesting and informative, thank you...………...and from the sound of it, what you have said fits the bill with regards to the "investment condo/apts" (not sure what they are called) being marketed and sold here in Patong. The purchaser buys the unit and gets to stay in it for one month a year, also gets a return of 7% pa for 15yrs and the unit is then bought back at whatever price (initial purchase price?) whilst the management company rents it out to short stay people of which it seems to have an endless supply due to contacts/agents in China...….very profitable I would think. Many Chinese are buying these because they can get their money out of China, the rate of return is greater than that offered anywhere else and they get a months holiday a year...……….ironically many of the renters are the Chinese short stay tourists. Looked at from a different angle, the purchaser "loans" the cash to the operator then gets it back over 15 yrs, plus whatever the buyback clause states. It is a very clever scheme which seems to be a win-win, esp for the operator who is getting funding to operate his business and prob making a small fortune? PS. What is meant by...……"You are however on the hook for HOA dues every month" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KittenKong Posted May 22, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 22, 2018 Looked at from a different angle, the purchaser "loans" the cash to the operator then gets it back over 15 yrs, plus whatever the buyback clause states. It is a very clever scheme which seems to be a win-win, esp for the operator who is getting funding to operate his business and prob making a small fortune? "Win-win" if the buyer does actually get his money back after 15 years. In Thailand I have learned to have no faith at all in future promises. Far too easy for the developer to go bankrupt in 14 years and 11 months. If it seems too good to be true it probably is too good to be true. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron19 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 An off topic troll has been removed. 9) You will not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling. Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttrd Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, KittenKong said: "Win-win" if the buyer does actually get his money back after 15 years. In Thailand I have learned to have no faith at all in future promises. Far too easy for the developer to go bankrupt in 14 years and 11 months. If it seems too good to be true it probably is too good to be true. Isnt it how the life is in general and how it drives each one of us - first hopes and dreams then realities, dissappointments and last Learning - as its said, its never too late to learn, the only difference is some in the easy way and for the most of us in the hard way... Edited May 22, 2018 by ttrd 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KittenKong Posted May 22, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 22, 2018 from the sound of it, what you have said fits the bill with regards to the "investment condo/apts" (not sure what they are called) being marketed and sold here in Patong. The Phuket condo market is odd in several respects. They do several things there that barely exist elsewhere. Long leases for condos, and arrangements that appear to be glorified time-shares are just two of them. Neither seems to happen often anywhere else in Thailand that I know of, yet both seem to be quite common in Phuket. I must admit that I see nothing at all attractive about the ways that condos are sold in Phuket. I much prefer the "pay money: get chanote" principle that is widely applied in Pattaya. Even company-name ownership seems better than long leases or time--shares, not that I would touch that either. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airalee Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 4 hours ago, xylophone said: Interesting and informative, thank you...………...and from the sound of it, what you have said fits the bill with regards to the "investment condo/apts" (not sure what they are called) being marketed and sold here in Patong. The purchaser buys the unit and gets to stay in it for one month a year, also gets a return of 7% pa for 15yrs and the unit is then bought back at whatever price (initial purchase price?) whilst the management company rents it out to short stay people of which it seems to have an endless supply due to contacts/agents in China...….very profitable I would think. Many Chinese are buying these because they can get their money out of China, the rate of return is greater than that offered anywhere else and they get a months holiday a year...……….ironically many of the renters are the Chinese short stay tourists. Looked at from a different angle, the purchaser "loans" the cash to the operator then gets it back over 15 yrs, plus whatever the buyback clause states. It is a very clever scheme which seems to be a win-win, esp for the operator who is getting funding to operate his business and prob making a small fortune? PS. What is meant by...……"You are however on the hook for HOA dues every month" HOA dues = Homeowners association dues. That’s what the monthly fees for common electricity, maintenance etc are called in America. WRT the purchase/investment scheme in Phuket, I’d prefer something a little less risky myself. No such thing (for the most part) as a win-win investment IMHO. Developers are smart and certainly aren’t going to leave any money on the table. And, who knows what inflation will be and what the condo will be worth in 15 years. Or how much of a chance there is of complete reneging of the “deal”. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucjoker Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 13 hours ago, Henrik Andersen said: You are so wrong but yes bad people are always there but now big crack down and it is good for normal people I see big change here in jomtien and meny are happy few are sad i had to sell my house for a low price, after 3 years noise , complaining with mayor,police , militair,........all with meeting were the culprit never had to show.......my only option was a lawyer and a 10 year procedure witch in the end will be won by the highest bidder ....... Maby are the lucky exception ? But don't tell me ( lived here 16 y)......"you are so wrong"....and everybody knows the meaning of a big crack down here in Th. , 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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