Where can I learn more about Thai social hierarchy and "Face"?

[Santogold]

I'm interested in learning more about Thai social class and structure. I.e. How to tell where individual Thai's fit in, where I fit in, what's expected of me when I meet a Thai of higher/lower social rank, what I should expect of them, how to give the proper amount of respect to higher/lower Thais without losing face myself, etc.

 

Do you know of any books or other resources where I can learn about this in-depth?

Edited May 25, 2018 by Santogold

[Jonathan Fairfield]

You've come to the right place. Welcome

[MaeJoMTB]

Face = false pride.

And you're never gonna met a high class Thai, unless you're a millionaire or diplomat.

High class Thais don't mix with white foreign riff-raff.

Serving staff you pretend don't exist, unless you're a fool in which case wai everyone.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Where do you fit in Thai social order? If you are you a Farang then you are lower than a convicted Thai child molestor on death row, even a rabbed dog in the street. Could have been a reincarnated Thai.

Then coelenterate worms of a latrine.

Then Africans and Indians.

“White privilege”

[ukrules]

You're not Thai, and almost certainly never will be.

 

What applies to them doesn't apply to you.

 

Remember this and ignore all their 'cultural' BS, it only applies to Thais and that counts you out.

[hanuman2543]

You can start by googling "Thai social class/es" and take it from there.

[jackdd]

As others said before, unless you look like a Thai nothing is expected from you, you never "fit in"

So for a foreigner it's quite easy:

You greet anybody with a sawas dee khab, but you only "wai" people who are friends / family and who are older than you (if friends / family who are younger than you "wai" you first you can "wai" back but it's not expected). Always talk polite with everybody. If you stick to this you can't do anything wrong.

Edited May 25, 2018 by jackdd

[theguyfromanotherforum]

27 minutes ago, ukrules said:

You're not Thai, and almost certainly never will be.

 

What applies to them doesn't apply to you.

 

Remember this and ignore all their 'cultural' BS, it only applies to Thais and that counts you out.

 

Yes. This. And the 2 posts before.

[chas39]

The system seems to place status and appearance above accountability and integrity. 

[Dmaxdan]

I don't think the class system in Thailand is really that different from anywhere else. If you're a pot bellied, Chang swilling Farang, with a tattooed bar girl on your arm then you're hardly going to gain any respect from the Thai hierarchy. People of a high social status can spot others a mile off, whether you're Thai or otherwise. I'm willing to bet that if a Farang is clearly from a high social group then the equivalent Thais will have no issues welcoming them into their own circles. Anyone who believes otherwise clearly thinks their social status is higher than it actually is.
At the end of the day, loss of face just amounts to being afraid of admitting you're in the wrong of at fault. This is a big flaw in Thai culture. So, if you're like me and big enough to hold your hands up and apologise when you know of think you're at fault then you won't go far wrong.
I spend way more time mixing with Thai people than my fellow Farangs, and in every case they have bent over backwards to make me feel welcome almost to the point that it becomes embarrassing. So don't listen to the cynics who say you will never be excepted in Thai society.
Clearly the problem is with them, not the Thai people.



Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[grollies]

711 and your local wat

[wildewillie89]

I sometimes attend different government social events or award ceremonies with or on behalf of the family (free feed with friends so not too fussed). As a result I have met my fair share of Governors, regional heads, members of different ministries and am attending a closer official friend's funeral who passed a few days ago. He was relatively high so one of the King's representatives is coming. So people who would have a higher social rank than me in the country anyway.

Generally, from my experience, they are more excited to shake your hand  and participate in your culture than expect anything from you. A regional police head even spent a few days learning a short speech in English just for our wedding as he knew I was a farang. The ones who have the expectations from us 'farang' generally believe they are higher than what they actually are. I have never felt like I have lost face, or felt as though I have needed to show anymore respect than I ever did to anyone back home. Many Thai I have found see it as refreshing. The richest family in my city (the guy is also my boss), every time we see each other we have a wrestle (quite a big Chinese/Thai guy), or insult each other in a friendly way (I call him fat and tell him to start riding again and stop eating). The Thai around us don't know what to do as obviously everyone knows who he is. This is a guy who won't even take off a pair of gloves, but will get someone lower to do it for him. Why is he different with me? I am not Thai. 

There is enough things in the country to worry about. This isn't one of them. 

[Denim]

Take a jar of cookies to the chimpanzees enclosure at the zoo.

It will point you in the right direction.

[Boon Mee]

Best area of the country to learn more about Thai society is living upcountry. 

The real Thailand. 

[Antonymous]

Congratulations to you for wanting to learn more about this at the outset. I'm tempted to give you an answer but the fact is that it is rather complicated in Thailand and there is no simple, short answer that will be helpful. That said, understanding how things work here will help you enormously to make the right decisions and choices in how you conduct your life, including particularly who you choose as a partner and who you make friends with.

 

Many foreigners living in Thailand simply don't get it - they have preconceived ideas based on their own culture and some unfortunately have highly inflated opinions of their social status based incorrectly on the amount of money they have.

 

I recommend a good summary here: http://factsanddetails.com/southeast-asia/Thailand/sub5_8c/entry-3228.html

[NoshowJones]

16 hours ago, jackdd said:

As others said before, unless you look like a Thai nothing is expected from you, you never "fit in"

So for a foreigner it's quite easy:

You greet anybody with a sawas dee khab, but you only "wai" people who are friends / family and who are older than you (if friends / family who are younger than you "wai" you first you can "wai" back but it's not expected). Always talk polite with everybody. If you stick to this you can't do anything wrong.

and what if they jump the queue in front of you, do you let them because you are farang? 

 

[LennyW]

You will never ever learn the truth......only what they want you to know and that wont even scratch the surface!! 

 

Find another hobby!!

[Gandtee]

The answer. Just one word, 'Nowhere.'?

[connda]

Pick up a copy of Thailand Fever and give it a read.  That will give you a start.  After you live here 10 years you'll understand the subtle nuances that those of us long-term ex-pats who have married into Thai families have come to know and love.  After which you'll neither go "100% Native" and embrace the whole sha-bang, or you'll develop a jocular, cheeky, and somewhat facetious sense of humor to keep the oddities of Thai social customs in perspective and have a little fun in the process.  Example: Go to an outing with the family and high wai children and insist on shaking hands with the adults for fun and amusement.  <chortle>  Being considered eccentric and somewhat 'off' by everyone you know has it's perks.  It keeps everyone off balance and you can leverage it to your advantage.
Also, learn Thai but don't let folks know you know.  You'll find out exactly what they think of you. 
Good luck! 

Edited May 26, 2018 by connda

[Panda13]

At a recent official Hi-So engagement, I quietly slipped a beef vindaloo down someones trousers, in order to curry their favor.

[tagalong]

After a week u will know...unless u av a fat wallet....?

[lucjoker]

21 hours ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

Where do you fit in Thai social order? If you are you a Farang then you are lower than a convicted Thai child molestor on death row, even a rabbed dog in the street. Could have been a reincarnated Thai.

Then coelenterate worms of a latrine.

Then Africans and Indians.

“White privilege”

 

yes , very true ......unless you show some money......they will line up for you ......

 

[KonaRain]

My bandwith (Hawaii) took me a while to load this page: 

I knew it would be interesting,  but You Guys should get an academy award..You are funny! (and dry)

Appreciate the guys with true advice.. Aloha!!

[WinterGael]

17 hours ago, Dmaxdan said:

I don't think the class system in Thailand is really that different from anywhere else. If you're a pot bellied, Chang swilling Farang, with a tattooed bar girl on your arm then you're hardly going to gain any respect from the Thai hierarchy. People of a high social status can spot others a mile off, whether you're Thai or otherwise. I'm willing to bet that if a Farang is clearly from a high social group then the equivalent Thais will have no issues welcoming them into their own circles. Anyone who believes otherwise clearly thinks their social status is higher than it actually is.
At the end of the day, loss of face just amounts to being afraid of admitting you're in the wrong of at fault. This is a big flaw in Thai culture. So, if you're like me and big enough to hold your hands up and apologise when you know of think you're at fault then you won't go far wrong.
I spend way more time mixing with Thai people than my fellow Farangs, and in every case they have bent over backwards to make me feel welcome almost to the point that it becomes embarrassing. So don't listen to the cynics who say you will never be excepted in Thai society.
Clearly the problem is with them, not the Thai people.



Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

I totally agree.  I don't mix with farang as I don't know any.  My Thai friends and family keep me very occupied. To quote my wife's cousin, I'm their farang.  ???

[Deli]

Try Soi 6, south Pattaya. If you fit in there, you fit in anywhere

[manchega]

I feel much the same way as conda,

 

I have a good idea of it and often go out of my way to breach all etiquette and thainess.

 

when you are non thai you have no face.  you can 'pretend' but you will come of as the hero in a steven seagul film.

 

basically make a point of waing to all poor people and people of low social status.

when it comes to people you know and meet shake hands.

 

every now and again wai those same important people, keep the buggers off guard, never be predictable.  

 

they will realise you are an ignorant foreigner and be amused by your stupidity and lack of understanding of the culture while coming off as a laugable baboon.

 

I also speaqk no thai and am happy to shout loader in English.  this works very well.

 

Nothing like being in a shop, buying expensive goods and hearing a few shop staff refer to you as a birdshit farang.

[atyclb]

2 hours ago, LennyW said:

You will never ever learn the truth......only what they want you to know and that wont even scratch the surface!! 

 

Find another hobby!!

 

 

the truth is convoluted

[jackdd]

3 hours ago, possum1931 said:

and what if they jump the queue in front of you, do you let them because you are farang? 

 

I let them because i'm farang? This doesn't make much sense, Thais would let them because they are Thai and don't want to confront anybody ?

For me personally it depends on my mood and the situation, same as i would do it in Germany. Sometimes i just let them, sometimes i remind them that there is a queue.

[seancbk]

This article includes a pretty good explanation of the Thai version of 'Face' which is different to the Cantonese version.

https://www.travelfish.org/beginners_detail/thailand/90

[NoshowJones]

20 minutes ago, jackdd said:

I let them because i'm farang? This doesn't make much sense, Thais would let them because they are Thai and don't want to confront anybody ?

For me personally it depends on my mood and the situation, same as i would do it in Germany. Sometimes i just let them, sometimes i remind them that there is a queue.

Nobody jumps a queue in front of me anywhere.