Pattaya / THExpats / Health-Self-insured?

[khunPer]

On 6/13/2018 at 3:28 PM, moonseeker said:

How are you insured? Or what are your thoughts?

When reaching the age of 65 years many a health insurance rocks too high compared with coverage, and still some fine print risk, so that self-insurance combined with a Personal Accident insurance is worth considering, if one is in general good health and live what can be considered as a in general healthy lifestyle.

 

The down side is what @Sheryl often mention, that if you have enough money to cover one major incident – which can a up to million baht or more – what if something more happens..?

 

And also the question of who is going to take care of the financial situation if one is unconscious..?

 

I decided for self-insurance, having already some lump sum saved up in a rainy day account in cover for "small print" risk and other unforeseen situations – and I continue to pay a sum into my "rainy day account" similar to an affordable health insurance – combined with some level of PA. I'm also that lucky, that I in worst case have access to more funds.

 

For instant access I have combined my "rainy day account" with my lovely girlfriend, it's in two names, so she can take care of finance, if I'm unavailable. Furthermore the funds are split with 1/3 into a normal savings account with ATM for instant available cash, 1/3 in a fixed deposit account for better interest, but available during normal bank days; and 1/3 in a mutual bonds fund account for best cash interest, available with a few bank-days notice. To be safe also my girlfriend's mum, who I fully thrust, also has an ATM in case something happens to both me and my girlfriend.

 

I believe most os us expats don't need insurance for smaller incidents, but we could use an affordable insurance for major cases, with a certain level of self-risk, to lower the premium. Am I right in thinking that it's not the first few hundred thousand baht, or less, that is a concern, but the situation where a million bath or more is instantly needed..?

 

I've been dreaming of such a self-risk insurance, where the self risk amount is deposited with the insurance company, or society, and therefore always accessable in emergency situations – i.e. the interest from unused self-risk might lower the administration costs and premiums – so single expats don't need to worry about who can access finance in case something happens.

?

[altcar bob]

5 hours ago, khunPer said:

When reaching the age of 65 years many a health insurance rocks too high compared with coverage, and still some fine print risk, so that self-insurance combined with a Personal Accident insurance is worth considering, if one is in general good health and live what can be considered as a in general healthy lifestyle.

 

The down side is what @Sheryl often mention, that if you have enough money to cover one major incident – which can a up to million baht or more – what if something more happens..?

 

And also the question of who is going to take care of the financial situation if one is unconscious..?

 

I decided for self-insurance, having already some lump sum saved up in a rainy day account in cover for "small print" risk and other unforeseen situations – and I continue to pay a sum into my "rainy day account" similar to an affordable health insurance – combined with some level of PA. I'm also that lucky, that I in worst case have access to more funds.

 

For instant access I have combined my "rainy day account" with my lovely girlfriend, it's in two names, so she can take care of finance, if I'm unavailable. Furthermore the funds are split with 1/3 into a normal savings account with ATM for instant available cash, 1/3 in a fixed deposit account for better interest, but available during normal bank days; and 1/3 in a mutual bonds fund account for best cash interest, available with a few bank-days notice. To be safe also my girlfriend's mum, who I fully thrust, also has an ATM in case something happens to both me and my girlfriend.

 

I believe most os us expats don't need insurance for smaller incidents, but we could use an affordable insurance for major cases, with a certain level of self-risk, to lower the premium. Am I right in thinking that it's not the first few hundred thousand baht, or less, that is a concern, but the situation where a million bath or more is instantly needed..?

 

I've been dreaming of such a self-risk insurance, where the self risk amount is deposited with the insurance company, or society, and therefore always accessable in emergency situations – i.e. the interest from unused self-risk might lower the administration costs and premiums – so single expats don't need to worry about who can access finance in case something happens.

?

Attention span is seriously depleted, cannot read,   sorry, old age.

  However to suggest I personally remain in Thailand to be eaten by these medical wolves is sheer nigh on nought. Worse case drag myself to airport,business class ticket(less likely to get slung off) and off.      If however is a procedure that can be successfully treated in short span of time,either Malaysia or India

[moonseeker]

Most private hospitals in most countries have very high rates. Obviously the US beats all by far, this why many insurers exclude the USA or charge extra, up to double if included. TH few top tier hospitals are in line with European top hospitals, actually some special stuff even higher. 

I can get a top of the line PET scan cheaper in SP than in TH. But then again can find other treatments sligjlty cheaper in ??. I think self insuring you need to have much more than 1 or 2 Mio Baht ready... Or have a way out, back home after initially treating here and then continue at home. Health Care is such a complicated topic as every country has its own system... Rich Scandinavian countries seem to work out quite well. ?? is well regulated but overrun by immigrants. GB is free but slow and scary... Switzerland is expensive... No easy and ideal solution. 

All comes down to money and that should not be the case when we talk health. Pity all these liberal governments allover can't come up with fair for poor and rich solutions. MS>

[Sheryl]

10 hours ago, khunPer said:

Bangkok Bank has a senior accident insurance "PA 1st Senior" covering from 50 to 100 years – it's also Bangkok Insurance – however medical is only 60,000 baht per case, whilst 600,000 baht for loos of life or permanent disability; cost about 5,000 baht a year.

 

Most of us retired expats would probably prefer the opposite, i.e. 600k baht medical and 60k baht loss-of-life.

Bangkok Bank and Bangkok Insurance are entirely different AFAIK

 

Bangkok Insurance Public Co has a policy called "Happy 45+"  which covers 200K in medical for accidents, enrolls up to age 80. Premium 6440 a year.

 

 

[perconrad]

I had a health insurance, but when I became 65 the premium was +150,000 bath and I could see that at 70 the premium would be + 300,000 baht.

So I went for a health examination which went well and I then cancelled my insurance and became self insured. Since then I have saved the anticipated premiums in my bank and the account is now well over 1 mill baht, I am 71 year now.

I also have more funds if needed and I have a personal accident insurance with 200,000 baht medical also for MC accidents.

 

The reason for dropping the health insurance was that if I get old the premium would become so high that I would hardly be able to pay the premium if I should also lave money to live. And a bonus is that if the money is not spend on my health then it is for my wife and children after I am not here anymore.

 

Since I am danish I can also fly to Denmark ( if the health allow it) and enjoy the free danish hospital service, partly financed by the taxes from my pensions.

[khunPer]

5 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Bangkok Bank and Bangkok Insurance are entirely different AFAIK

 

Bangkok Insurance Public Co has a policy called "Happy 45+"  which covers 200K in medical for accidents, enrolls up to age 80. Premium 6440 a year.

Thanks for your answer, but the English documentation I got in my Bangkok Bank branch says Bangkok Insurance for PA1st Senior Plan, so does Bangkok Bank's own webpage "PA 1st personal accident insurance gives you and your loved ones protection and peace of mind at any age"...?

 

[altcar bob]

18 hours ago, khunPer said:

The down side is what @Sheryl often mention, that if you have enough money to cover one major incident – which can a up to million baht or more – what if something more happens..?

 

And also the question of who is going to take care of the financial situation if one is unconscious..?

 

 

Correct,but the one thing that seems  missing,or never commented on,is the amount insured for,...say 1 mil,or even 2 mil,or even more,   serious accident /illness that amount will be gobbled up like yesterday with private hospital billing , what happens then? insurance company will not insure,or at least will make sure you will not insure by hefty increase in premiums,then back to square one,   govt,hospital when the fund runs dry.

  The one thing that is really missing is medical evacuation,just that alone would be worth paying for separately

[MyFriend You]

On 6/14/2018 at 9:34 AM, Kerryd said:

(and thinks you are worth more alive than dead). 

I have been saying that for over thirty years in Thailand, only know of one friends GF that stood by him whilst in hospital, he was shot four times in Pattaya by a drunk Thai Policeman.  He wasn't supposed to survive that, lived a dozen more years, then the health issues took their toll, three .38 caliber bullets in the stomach do tons of damage,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,he went back to the US and we have  lost all contact after that.  The policeman was transferred to a far distant post up North, his family kept badgering her trying to pay her off, threatening her with jail, labeling her as a prostitute, tough young Isaan gal, can't scare her - family wound up paying all hospital bills and gave him 5 Million baht for his aftercare.  Why was he shot??  Restaurant (Belgian owned) said the cop bumped into my friends wife, he was confronted about it by the friend (in fluent Thai) and the cop pulled his gun out - shot him four times, and ran away.  The reason for the post is, she could have just deserted him and gone and found someone else, sold the bar, house and car - but didn't. 

[Sheryl]

Correct,but the one thing that seems  missing,or never commented on,is the amount insured for,...say 1 mil,or even 2 mil,or even more,   serious accident /illness that amount will be gobbled up like yesterday with private hospital billing , what happens then? insurance company will not insure,or at least will make sure you will not insure by hefty increase in premiums,then back to square one,   govt,hospital when the fund runs dry.
  The one thing that is really missing is medical evacuation,just that alone would be worth paying for separately

Any policy worth the name will guarantee lufe time renewal regardless of claims.

Policies issued in the West are not allowed to raise premiums based on claim history. This problem occurs only with Thai issued policies...a good reason to avoid them IMO.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[khunPer]

51 minutes ago, altcar bob said:

Correct,but the one thing that seems  missing,or never commented on,is the amount insured for,...say 1 mil,or even 2 mil,or even more,   serious accident /illness that amount will be gobbled up like yesterday with private hospital billing , what happens then? insurance company will not insure,or at least will make sure you will not insure by hefty increase in premiums,then back to square one,   govt,hospital when the fund runs dry.

  The one thing that is really missing is medical evacuation,just that alone would be worth paying for separately

If I understand what you are saying, then it's like insurance is not better than self-insurance, as you might be kicked back to square one in both cases...?
That was actually also my conclusion, and among the considerations for choosing self-insurance.
Medical evacuation is probably depending of from where one originally came from, i.e. will coming "home" equal instant free medical care..?

[simon43]

The guys i know, play golf with, cycle are 60-70 and they don't have insurance and aren't cheap charlies, they are all healthy and are gambling and hoping for the best.

 

If they can afford the golf fees, then they can afford private medical insurance. 

 

IMHO, they have their priorities all wrong!

 

I'm a lowly teacher in Myanmar, almost 60 years old.  I can afford international private medical insurance because I prioritise it as an important expenditure for someone of my age and location.

 

Up to each individual where their priorities lie of course, but don't complain if you have a heart attack on the golf course and have to pay out of your own funds for treatment...

[Pat in Pattaya]

8 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

If they can afford the golf fees, then they can afford private medical insurance. 

 

IMHO, they have their priorities all wrong!

 

I'm a lowly teacher in Myanmar, almost 60 years old.  I can afford international private medical insurance because I prioritise it as an important expenditure for someone of my age and location.

 

Up to each individual where their priorities lie of course, but don't complain if you have a heart attack on the golf course and have to pay out of your own funds for treatment...

So they should spend their money on medical insurance and then sit at home all day instead of playing golf? Meanwhile, back in the real world.

[moonseeker]

How many countries offer really FREE & Comprehensive Healthcare? Below links are not well researched and lack real facts. Germany, Switzerland etc. do not offer FREE HC, they might subsidize, regulate and have a welfare-system that steps up in serious cases. But even if HC charges are deducted from your salary, you still pay for it.

What country provides top-notch FREE HC??? FREE & UNIVERSAL are 2 different things!

 

I have friends with cancer who have to wait weeks or months to see the specialist in sveral European countries. What are the solutions??

Are there ways to resolve this or actual examples? Are you citizen of a country with THE SOLUTION? How does it look?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_universal_health_care

https://www.thebalance.com/universal-health-care-4156211

 

https://www.expatinfodesk.com/expat-guide/deciding-on-the-right-country/main-decision-criteria/health-care/

 

Feeling sorry for ill people without access to good HC.  Good night!   MS>

 

[poanoi]

i self insure, all my ailing are the results of things that happened long ago

so insurance wouldnt pay for it anyway, so i would just end up

paying twice if i pay insurance

[moonseeker]

New  report from GB out. TH most dangerous destination for Brits and 25% of Brits believe that their Government covers medical bills abroad. Scary.... Plays exactly into the naivity of many to feel they don't need insurance. Friend just got diagnosed with colon cancer and has spent already 200K in first week for basic evaluation. In a private hospital in BKK. Get insurance if you can. MS>

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎6‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 8:28 PM, moonseeker said:

Cancer treatment can now run into Mio. of Baht in a year, with the many new therapies. Major surgeries can cost

a fortune, if done in a private hospital. 

I see many people returning to their home country in a hurry, if they get seriously ill. Lucky if their Gov. pays the bills, but probably long waits to access the

system.

Anyone that is saying they self insure is hiding their head in the sand if they think they can pay the bill for major medical problems or accidents. Like you say, millions of baht. George Soros would probably be OK, but most expats would have to try their luck in a public hospital if really serious and paying themselves. Even dental implants cost large. I was quoted over 80,000 for one.

If from the UK, and not residing there, one can't just turn up at a hospital and expect free treatment now.

[altcar bob]

One way out of high cost of cancer treatment..India,past masters of the art.  Chemo ,probably Chennai about 10,000 a session,too early in the day to go looking for the link...but preventative costs so low-its a gift.    Missed my scans there this year,monsoon at the present, but lll be over there in Oct.  400 baht colonoscopy,in one hospital

  medifee,then whatever you want,Chennai or Calcutta are closest      Pet scans are a gift

[bkk6060]

I am in my 60's and pay about 2,000 US a year for a decent AXA plan.

Covers me for everything inpatient. I do not care about out patient as it is very inexpensive here.

 

With this, I think anyone who does not have some sort of coverage here is not smart.

Especially, if you ride and motorbike which my plan covers if I get in an accident.

 

Another thing is guys I know on Medicare who live here and think all will be covered by Medicare if they have an accident or get sick.  From my investigation, this is not true.  If you are traveling, some things may be covered in a foreign country, but not if you are a permanent resident in that country.

 

So, I hope all you self insurers have a couple of million baht ready to be used for medical purposes.

If not, don't come crying on here with some "fund me" crap due to your irresponsibility.

 

 

 

[moonseeker]

On 6/21/2018 at 7:36 AM, altcar bob said:

One way out of high cost of cancer treatment..India,past masters of the art.  Chemo ,probably Chennai about 10,000 a session,too early in the day to go looking for the link...but preventative costs so low-its a gift.    Missed my scans there this year,monsoon at the present, but lll be over there in Oct.  400 baht colonoscopy,in one hospital

  medifee,then whatever you want,Chennai or Calcutta are closest      Pet scans are a gift

Thank you. I looked into this. Modern, advancefcancer treatment can also be expensive in India. Opdivo, Keytruda, Yervoy can run from 250K to 1 Mio K. in combinations for ONE I infusion. In fact TH is at the lower end with some of these. Hard to generalize with the variety of cancers and therapies. But good advise with India in general. On the other hand... 2 year immune-therapy every other week.... Flying back and fourth when even a trip to Bumrungrad can become a challenge? Kind regards. MS>

[DividendGuy]

I am interested in India for my medical health care. How can I get the information on who I can contact (high-level/first class hospital group) so I can learn how to be knowledgeable and price compare on what they offer? PM me if you have any advice. I am healthy now, and want to learn while I have time before health issues arise. Thanks for any reply.

[bkk6060]

I am curious about the India and Arab comments about cheap medical care.

 

Why in Bumrungrad Hospital full of Arabs and Indians all day long everyday for care, if their countries are so much better and cheaper?

 

 

[scubascuba3]

I am curious about the India and Arab comments about cheap medical care.
 
Why in Bumrungrad Hospital full of Arabs and Indians all day long everyday for care, if their countries are so much better and cheaper?
 
 

Its a good point, ask them

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

2 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

I am curious about the India and Arab comments about cheap medical care.
 
Why in Bumrungrad Hospital full of Arabs and Indians all day long everyday for care, if their countries are so much better and cheaper?
 
 

Its a good point, ask them

Don't need to actually.

It was a rhetorical question.

[Sheryl]

I don't actually see many Indians coming here for medical care. Lots and lots of Bangladeshis, perhaps some people mistake them for Indians.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bkk6060]

43 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I don't actually see many Indians coming here for medical care. Lots and lots of Bangladeshis, perhaps some people mistake them for Indians.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Heck, could be.

But again, isn't India closer to Bangladesh then Thailand?

[Sheryl]

Physically closer, yes, but relations between the two countries are poor.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[moonseeker]

Here a bit of info. Plenty on GOOGLE. I inquired a couple of years back about cancer treatment in several hospitals in India & China  and was not impressed with their follow-up responses. Far from top international standards. But this might have been just for my cancer-case.  MS>

 

https://www.quora.com/Which-is-the-best-hospital-in-india