Taking company to court over over unfair dismisal

[Steps]

Hello everybody,

  I have been unfairly dismissed from my company that i have been employed in for many years. I have never had any warnings during my employment time up until now where i have been dismissed for neglecting duties. This has come about due to a takeover by another company and i am guessing they do not want to pay severance. What i would like to know is what do i do now and what can i expect. I know i will need to get a good layer who understands employment law. Is there any good recommendations? Also how much will this cost me about and how long can i expect this process to go on for.

 

I want to ad that this is not a one of case but that there are quite a few people who are being moved out in this way.

 

Please help!!

[cornishcarlos]

Where ?? Thailand ??

Is the company Thai or foreign ?

What does it say in your contract with reference to termination ?

 

Lots of missing information, however, only a lawyer can really tell you where you stand...

 

Good luck

[HooHaa]

thai labour laws are very clear on this and it is very difficult to actually dismiss an employee without showing cause and following proper procedures and issuing the proper warnings.

if as you say there have been no warnings issued for a period of one year, and you have not repeated the specified offense within that time period, i'm not certain you would even need a lawyer on this one, but if you have been there for a number of years, it would certainly be worthwhile to seek advice or have representation as there is potential for up to 300 days worth of salary and additional compensation for unused leave.

 

the process is not long and generally very straight forward. it really should not cost much.

i was devastated to find out my department in a multinational had been outsourced after over 10 years, but i walked with nearly 3 years salary between bonuses, stock options and thai severance.

luckily i was an early example after a takeover, and was treated well to assuage the fears of others. A year later a number of heads hit the chopping block with far less favourable terms.

 

good luck, but i suspect unless you had a fixed term contract ie yearly renewals you will be fine, and the ruling will likely not require court, merely submission of complaint, investigation and decision by labour inspector. 


 

Edited June 14, 2018 by HooHaa

[flyingtlger]

20 minutes ago, Steps said:

I have been unfairly dismissed from my company that i have been employed in for many years.

Welcome to Thailand.....If you are a foreigner, unfortunately you will be treated as a second class citizen at best.

Even if you win in court (which I highly doubt), good luck in trying to collect an award.

Move on to greener pastures...you'll save a lot of frustration, time and money.

[HooHaa]

Just now, flyingtlger said:

Welcome to Thailand.....If you are a foreigner, unfortunately you will be treated as a second class citizen at best.

Even if you win in court (which I highly doubt), good luck in trying to collect an award.

Move on to greener pastures...you'll save a lot of frustration, time and money.

defeatist nonsense from someone who obviously does not understand thai labour laws and/or has never worked in the country, especially for a larger or more established company.

Thai labour laws very much favour the employee whether foreign or national, and i have seen numerous disputes settled in favour of both thai national and foreign employees.

people like you who have no concept of their rights are why employers are still willing to try this on despite hefty potential fines.

you may be content to roll over and die, fine, just do it quietly and keep your defeatist moaning to yourself.

[FritsSikkink]

9 minutes ago, flyingtlger said:

Welcome to Thailand.....If you are a foreigner, unfortunately you will be treated as a second class citizen at best.

Even if you win in court (which I highly doubt), good luck in trying to collect an award.

Move on to greener pastures...you'll save a lot of frustration, time and money.

Rubbish advise, as a foreigner you will be treated the same as a Thai by the Labor office.

[Sheryl]

Do NOT hire your own lawyer, lawyers in Thailand are nto at all what they are in other countries.

 

You need to contact the Ministry of Labor, Department of Labor Protection and Welfare and file a complaint with them.  You will not need a personal lawyer to do this, and the Ministry will help you through the process. The complaint will be reviewed by the Labor Relations Committee who will either negiotiate a settlement or recommend legal proceedings.

 

It will likely get resolved out of court, and (if the facts are as described) to your benefit.

 

https://www.labour.go.th/en/index.php/about-us/indexa1

Call center 1546 (may need some patience and persistance to get an English speaker).

[FritsSikkink]

You need to contact your local labor office, they are very helpful.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, flyingtlger said:

Welcome to Thailand.....If you are a foreigner, unfortunately you will be treated as a second class citizen at best.

Even if you win in court (which I highly doubt), good luck in trying to collect an award.

Move on to greener pastures...you'll save a lot of frustration, time and money.

 

Not necessarily true at all.

 

To the OP, contact / go to the dept. of labour office (In Bkk at Din Daeng) and discuss your case with them, the dept. has a good track record of helping people in these situations including helping foreigners.

 

From previous threads on this subject they are good listeners, good English and make it clear the labour laws apply regardless of the nationality of the employee.

 

And as already said the law is specific and if anything favors the employee. 

 

I've heard of cases (where it's a foreign employee) going through the court with little delay and the judge made no mention of the fact the employee was foreign and followed the letter of the law.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

[Mattd]

1 hour ago, flyingtlger said:

Welcome to Thailand.....If you are a foreigner, unfortunately you will be treated as a second class citizen at best.

Even if you win in court (which I highly doubt), good luck in trying to collect an award.

Move on to greener pastures...you'll save a lot of frustration, time and money.

What a complete and utter load of rubbish, you obviously have no idea whatsoever.

 

OP, take Sheryl's advice and contact your local labour department office, they will assist you and as Sheryl states decide if the company has acted outside of the law, which it does sound like they have done, don't waste your time or money on a lawyer.

[gwynt]

2 hours ago, flyingtlger said:

Welcome to Thailand.....If you are a foreigner, unfortunately you will be treated as a second class citizen at best.

Even if you win in court (which I highly doubt), good luck in trying to collect an award.

Move on to greener pastures...you'll save a lot of frustration, time and money.

I was with a Thai / international company who tried to say that in my contract I would not be subject to severance pay.

I pointed out at tge time that this was against Thai law but ignored.

I continued for 15 months until the contract completed and sure enough they tried to dismiss me withe no severance.

I and two Thai colleagues went to the labour court where I was treated exactly the same as my Thai counterparts and approx 9 months later was awarded 1.6 mThai  baht my colleagues pro-rata, so all treated equally.

[Colabamumbai]

As stated local Labour Office, no lawyer needed. Got money due but not paid by employer, even though it was two years after the fact.

[cat handler]

You claim you were dismissed for neglecting your duties, is the a form of serious wilful misconduct, for this you wouldn’t need a warning it can result in summary dismissal. What was your serious and wilful misconduct, can you tell us?

[natway09]

Quote

 

When the new company took over , did they pay severance up until this time or did the seller & buyer 

do a shonkee deal. It is unusual for them to be allowed to take over existing employment time ? Check  on that as the Labour Dept do look after people pretty well

 

[Steps]

6 minutes ago, natway09 said:

When the new company took over , did they pay severance up until this time or did the seller & buyer 

do a shonkee deal. It is unusual for them to be allowed to take over existing employment time ? Check  on that as the Labour Dept do look after people pretty well

 

This is interesting. What do you mean by a shonkee deal? I have been reading that if there is a takeover or merger, the staff have to be asked? Which means we can refuse? which means we should get severance?

 

It is not clear who we are anymore. Is it possible to be 95% one and 5% the other? and if so, does that mean they dont have to pay severance?

 

Thanks

[Bredbury Blue]

Similar happened to me in 2006 with an American company who were moving their office out of Thailand and didn't want to pay me severance.

 

My wife (Thai) and I went to a labour office on Rama 4 (near Hualampong station) and we filed a complaint, in Thai. My wife wrote it out for me in Thai and the official there filled in the form for me and I signed it. That started the wheels in motion for an attempted settlement. The company refused to settle so a court date was set – at that point I appointed a lawyer.

 

After several court sessions they finally settled ;-)

 

Sorry but I cannot tell you exactly where’s the office for filing the complaint / dispute – suggest you contact the labour department for advice.

 

Don’t panic, it can be a lengthy process.

[Mattd]

14 minutes ago, natway09 said:

When the new company took over , did they pay severance up until this time or did the seller & buyer

It is not a requirement for the severance to be paid out if the company is taken over, severance is only required in the case of unfair dismissal or redundancy.

[connda]

Taking company to court over over unfair dismisal.  

Unless they have broken the terms of a contract, you're probably not going to prevail.  But, best of luck.  Some lawyer will be happy to take your money

Edited June 14, 2018 by connda

[Suradit69]

8 hours ago, flyingtlger said:

If you are a foreigner, unfortunately you will be treated as a second class citizen at best.

If he's a foreigner, he isn't a citizen, first or second class.

 

Thais get dismissed fairly easily too, with little concern for their welfare.

[scorecard]

21 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

If he's a foreigner, he isn't a citizen, first or second class.

 

Thais get dismissed fairly easily too, with little concern for their welfare.

 

Perhaps you should read the majority theme of the previous posts.

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

Perhaps you should read the majority theme of the previous posts.

Regardless of the theme, a foreigner isn't a citizen. I was responding to the assertion of the other poster that a foreigner would be treated as a second class CITIZEN.

 

He also seemed to imply that only foreigners faced unwarranted dismissal. That's certainly not the case.

 

I should have added that both Thais and foreigners can avail themselves of assistance from the Labor services ... again something he implied was not an viable option for foreigners.

 

I don't think what I posted was contrary to the general theme of responses, excluding the usual nonsense from Thai bashers.

 

Perhaps you should read the entire post to which I was responding.

 

9 hours ago, flyingtlger said:

Welcome to Thailand.....If you are a foreigner, unfortunately you will be treated as a second class citizen at best.

Even if you win in court (which I highly doubt), good luck in trying to collect an award.

Move on to greener pastures...you'll save a lot of frustration, time and money.

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by Suradit69

[HooHaa]

12 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

If he's a foreigner, he isn't a citizen, first or second class.

 

Thais get dismissed fairly easily too, with little concern for their welfare.

Again, you have a keyboard but not a clue.

[Mattd]

14 hours ago, connda said:

Taking company to court over over unfair dismisal.  

Unless they have broken the terms of a contract, you're probably not going to prevail.  But, best of luck.  Some lawyer will be happy to take your money

It will mostly depend on the reasons for dismissal, as has been mentioned in the thread already, the labour laws make it quite difficult to dismiss an employee, even with cause, you really have to do something bad for a company to dismiss somebody without any written warnings, even the written warnings have to be for the same thing, 3 written warnings for 3 different things don't count!

A perfect example of this was in my previous company, where we caught a local stealing paint, there wasn't enough there to fire the guy, so we had to force him to resign under the threat of prosecution!!

A company can let you go without severance pay at the end of a fixed term contract, however, a lot of companies think that they can circumnavigate the labour laws by just issuing fixed term contract after fixed term contract, this ruse the labour courts are well versed with and will always rule in favour of the employee, unless there is a sizable break between the contracts, back to back contracts are considered as unbroken employment.

Anybody with a open ended contract and more than 3 months employment is entitled to severance pay if dismissed without cause or laid off, same applies if it is fixed term and the term is not yet at an end.

A very high percentage of claims that do make it to the labour courts end up being ruled in favour of the employee, which is why a lot are settled before it goes to the court.

[Mattd]

12 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

If he's a foreigner, he isn't a citizen, first or second class.

 

Thais get dismissed fairly easily too, with little concern for their welfare.

I can say unequivocally that this is not correct, Foreigners are treated EXACTLY the same when it comes to the labour laws and courts, 100%.

As for Thais getting dismissed fairly easily, this is not correct either if it is a proper company, you should take a look at the labour law here, it offers a lot of protection to the employees, far more than most Western countries, this can be good and bad, as it does put off investment from overseas if they are fully understood, in fact some companies make provisions in their yearly accounts for severance pay in the case of bankruptcy etc.

[Bredbury Blue]

In my case it didn't  seem to make any difference  that i am a farlang. Court proceedings was obviously in Thai. I was addressed in thai but my wife and lawyer were able  to  assist me. There were 3 officials in the court, one is supposed to assist plaintiff another for the defendant on the 3rd runs the show. They did try to get me to settle  when my ex-employer made a derisory offer but i stuck by  guns,  another court date was arranged and they finally settled "in accordance with thai laws" (correct number of months severance pay).

 

Ps. You do not need any lawyer just a translator but a lawyer may be of use.

[thainet]

As others have said you are covered by strict labour laws. As they have dismissed you (without cause by the look of it) you are entitled to severance pay. This can be 3, 6 or 12 months pay depending on your length of employment.

If they refuse just take your case to the Labour dept and they are very fair. Possibly arbitration, but usually if the claim is legit, then the company must pay.

I suggest you just look for Thai Labour Law on the web, and you'll find everything that you need.

[Mattd]

On 6/15/2018 at 7:17 PM, thainet said:

you are entitled to severance pay. This can be 3, 6 or 12 months pay depending on your length of employment.

The maximum severance pay is 10 months after 10 years service, although a court can award more (or less) depending on the circumstances, they can also waiver the tax liability if really lucky.

[fcbkk]

How did this case end - if it has ended by now?
Did you file a formal complaint via the Labour Office's Protection & Welfare Unit - or via the Labour Court?

 

it would be good to hear as i face some similar questions, see this thread here:

 

[Mary Spence]

I am in the same situation right now.. Don't know what to do. This is so unfair

[Mary Spence]

On 4/30/2019 at 1:48 PM, fcbkk said:

How did this case end - if it has ended by now?
Did you file a formal complaint via the Labour Office's Protection & Welfare Unit - or via the Labour Court?

 

it would be good to hear as i face some similar questions, see this thread here:

 

Thanks, I was told to ask for help herehttps://mosheslaw.com/laborandemployment/unpaid-wages-lawyer/ but I believe your information could be helpful too.