Testosterone, steroids, etc.

[GoDucks]

I used to have a friend who was really into this stuff.  I am 54, go to a personal trainer 3 x per week and trying to get into much better shape.

Any thoughts?

[AlexRich]

Keep up the training, be careful with your diet ... and don’t touch any of that other stuff. 

[poanoi]

oxandrolone worked like a charm for me,

is in pill form so theres no taking it up the arse,

and it doesnt disable your testicles like nearly every

other hormone do.

its a tad pricey compared to the others,

but since you just want to get a temporary boost anyway,

as oppose to getting stuck until death on it,

so what?

 

for training, you are old and fragile,

and should keep harping on with repetitive many repetitions even if oxan gives you strength for more,

busted tendons ends training just like that.

 

if its fat you want to lose, dnp  fatburner works like a charm but a single overdose can be deadly,

so thats also a place where its better to play safe

Edited June 17, 2018 by poanoi

[tropo]

The answer is simple. Get a blood testosterone test. If you're in the normal range, stay away from it. If you're low, consider testosterone replacement theory (TRT) under the supervision of a doctor. Stay well away from any anabolic steroids, which are derivatives of testosterone. Those will put a heavy burden on your kidneys and liver, especially the oral types. Yes, you will build muscle, but at a cost to your health.

[Bob12345]

Send me a message and I will give you the contact details of a personal trainer who is currently trying to place for a spot in the "Mr Olympia for over 50".

He is about the same age as you and will be able to help you further in making this decision, if you want to use anything, and if so, what you should use and what you can expect.

[catman20]

7 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Keep up the training, be careful with your diet ... and don’t touch any of that other stuff. 

look at all the WWE stars that have died through steroids aged between 25 and 55. google it.

[Bob12345]

3 hours ago, tropo said:

The answer is simple. Get a blood testosterone test. If you're in the normal range, stay away from it. 

With other words: if you are average by nature you should stay average the rest of your life.

 

Luckily medical science evolved: if you want to be "super-human" you can become "super-human".

But the choice to stay average or become above average is for everyone to make by themselves.

 

@catman20: i have the feeling that topic-starter is not a WWE star.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Bob12345

[Destiny1990]

Steroids usage will make u feel more warm not sure that’s what u want while living  in Thailand.

[quandow]

I lost a friend in Pattaya who was juicing. Late 30's, no WAY he should have died the way he did.

[dotpoom]

I had a blood test and my testerone level was low. The doctor recommended one injection 250mg every 30 days, I'm 68 yrs. old. This was costing me 500 Bt. a go, so I bought a packet myself (containing about 20 viles) at the pharmacy and pay the same clinic 100 Baht a go to inject it for me. The result after all this..."Not a blind bit of difference"....feel exactly the same as before (and look the same too, methinks)

   Would I bother again...."No".

  When this lot is finished....no more for me.

 

 

 

 

[AlQaholic]

Stallone likes HGH....

[jdlancaster]

I'm not here to judge and will give my recommendation. Prior to use, I would recommend maximizing your diet for muscle protein synthesis. This requires for an older person about 30 g of high quality protein that contains 3-4 grams of leucine. You would eat this every 5 hours along with a resistance training program. Also wait until you finish your Novice Linear Progression. I would recommend reading the work of Dr. Jordan Feigenbaum and Dr. Austin Baraki. They are world class lifters and specialize in this type of medicine. Google barbell medicine for their website. They are all about getting old people (and young) strong and healthy. They also won't judge you and will give you realistic medical advice on steroids. What to expect etc.

[faraday]

33 minutes ago, dotpoom said:

I had a blood test and my testerone level was low. The doctor recommended one injection 250mg every 30 days, I'm 68 yrs. old. This was costing me 500 Bt. a go, so I bought a packet myself (containing about 20 viles) at the pharmacy and pay the same clinic 100 Baht a go to inject it for me. The result after all this..."Not a blind bit of difference"....feel exactly the same as before (and look the same too, methinks)

   Would I bother again...."No".

  When this lot is finished....no more for me.

 

 

 

 

Hmmm....

 

The half- life of Testosterone Enanthate is around 10 days, so after 30 days, your supplemented hormone level, will have dropped too low for any effect.

 

I have 250mg of Testosterone Enanthate every 10 days & feel ok. Not supra - normal, just fine.

 

Redo your blood test. Have a CBC, Testosterone, & E2.

 

Post up your results, & I'll give you my non -medical opinion.

 

 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, dotpoom said:

I had a blood test and my testerone level was low. The doctor recommended one injection 250mg every 30 days, I'm 68 yrs. old. This was costing me 500 Bt. a go, so I bought a packet myself (containing about 20 viles) at the pharmacy and pay the same clinic 100 Baht a go to inject it for me. The result after all this..."Not a blind bit of difference"....feel exactly the same as before (and look the same too, methinks)

   Would I bother again...."No".

  When this lot is finished....no more for me.

 

 

 

 

As Faraday says the dose is far too low and to irregular.  do 125 (half valf a vial) every week and see the difference.  Also you will have to touch weights or do a little bit of exercise. People who think steriods alone are wonder drugs.. they are not in general you will need to exercise with them. 

[robblok]

2 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

With other words: if you are average by nature you should stay average the rest of your life.

 

Luckily medical science evolved: if you want to be "super-human" you can become "super-human".

But the choice to stay average or become above average is for everyone to make by themselves.

 

@catman20: i have the feeling that topic-starter is not a WWE star.

Even at a bit more then HRT doses you will see a difference IF you train too and have your diet in order too. Its not a magical drug but it certainly helps.

[robblok]

2 hours ago, catman20 said:

look at all the WWE stars that have died through steroids aged between 25 and 55. google it.

Like all things there are always people who over do stuff. I read bodybuilder sites they are talking about 1-2 grams of the stuff per week. While a normal starter dose (for bodybuilders) would be 500mg. Thing is yes its dangerous, but the dangers can be manageable if you don't take too much and take an anti aromatase with it. But plenty of people think more is better, forgetting the side effects gets worse too.

[faraday]

Good suggestion from Robblok, it will give you a far smoother hormone level.

 

Meant to add, when you restart the Testosterone, you'll need to get E2 & Testosterone blood tests, once a month for 3 months. This will show if your Testosterone level is at a point where you feel better, but it's not too high.

 

Excess Testosterone converts to E2, & you don't want too much of it.

 

[poanoi]

4 minutes ago, faraday said:

 

Excess Testosterone converts to E2, & you don't want too much of it.

 

lol, i checked blood when i tested testosterone,

and it turned out i had same estrogen level as a woman right before she menstrate

[faraday]

2 hours ago, catman20 said:

look at all the WWE stars that have died through steroids aged between 25 and 55. google it.

Alot of pro - sports people take Steroids, an example being Rugby players. They certainly not naturally developed.

 

Doping - drug detection, is circumvented by timing the doses, so they're ' clean' when they get tested.

 

The giants in WWE & the pro - bb'ers, take as Robblox said, huge doses in multiple combinations.

 

[faraday]

1 minute ago, poanoi said:

lol, i checked blood when i tested testosterone,

and it turned out i had same estrogen level as a woman right before she menstrate

How was it treated?

[holymoly]

Regarding post #12.    Please send me the info as well.   I am very much older than 

those writing but have been weightlifting, stretching, yoga. meditation, for over 

40 years, nearly every day. I am good shape have some probs with mineral supplements. Take Androgel, 1/3 of recommended dose semi often. It really improves my overall feeling well and strength.

My contribution to this topic is my experience of staying in close touch with my

body all the the time,  ALL the time..............all the time in a positive way ?.

[poanoi]

7 minutes ago, faraday said:

How was it treated?

anastrol i believe, i still got a can so it has to be it,

but for some reason i get a vision of a yellow long box

when i think of anti estrogen

Edited June 18, 2018 by poanoi

[poanoi]

Just now, holymoly said:

Regarding post #12.    Please send me the info as well.   I am very much older than 

those writing but have been weightlifting, stretching, yoga. meditation, for over 

40 years, nearly every day. I am good shape have some probs with mineral supplements. Take Androgel, 1/3 of recommended dose semi often. It really improves my overall feeling well and strength.

My contribution to this topic is my experience of staying in close touch with my

body all the the time,  ALL the time..............all the time in a positive way ?.

yep, placebo effect does miracles in a true sense

[robblok]

16 minutes ago, faraday said:

Good suggestion from Robblok, it will give you a far smoother hormone level.

 

Meant to add, when you restart the Testosterone, you'll need to get E2 & Testosterone blood tests, once a month for 3 months. This will show if your Testosterone level is at a point where you feel better, but it's not too high.

 

Excess Testosterone converts to E2, & you don't want too much of it.

 

Yes whenever you inject any steroid its good to do blood tests to see how your estrogen goes, the higher you go with steriods the more it will mess up your estrogen and often also your cholesterol values. Steroids are not harmless but at lower TRT doses usually safe, higher doses certainly won't kill you but if your doing 1-2 grams and often.. for sure its not good for your health. I doubt a starting dose for bodybuilding (say 500mg) if you take anty estrogen and a PCT afterwards will do much lasting damage. (less then smoking and drinking or being generally overweight). The problems starts when you do it often or at higher doses.

 

Not advising anyone, anyone who ever wants to try this should read a lot about it on bodybuilding boards like UK muscle, and take a lot of time to find out who is full of BS and who is knowledgeable. This is not a decision to take lightly.

[geriatrickid]

There is a reason why people who have an understanding of these chemicals do not use them.  Every chemical aka "drug" one takes comes with side effects.  There is no such thing as a safe anabolic steroid. It's a trade off. Does short term use facilitate a patient's recovery from a wasting illness; does it help a boy achieve a successful puberty;does it help the patient manage a rare form of angioedema; and will it help a woman control her breast cancer? All serious diseases involving a delicate balance of hormones.

Almost all of its users will incur cardiovascular damage. It may be very mild, or it may be as severe as a heart attack or stroke, but it will occur. The people who claim they safely use it, have no basis to make such a claim, because we only know for sure once the skull is cracked open or the magical chest slice is made and the internal organs are scooped out to be examined.By then it is too late.

 

As for the proponents of testosterone. Low T is one of those super hyped conditions, like "restless leg syndrome", which is super promoted, but in reality  afflicts a miniscule number of patients. It has serious side effects, so unless the patient doesn't have functional testicles or wants to go bald, grow breasts, have some awful acne, it is bets avoided.

 

I am always amazed by the cavalier attitudes  so many people in TVF who support these chemicals use. They are sourced through the black market which means one doesn't know if the products are clean or pure. The proponents have no formal education in pharmaceuticals, let alone a  background in endocrinology, yet they  recommend the  chemicals. An endocrinologist struggles to get hormone dosing right for a patient, and it can literally take a year or more with constant monitoring and changes over the following years. Yet, the experts here, know the exact dose of dodgy  chemicals someone should take. Brilliant.

 

If you want to stay alive and reduce the risk of stroke, heart attack, liver disease and  cancer, do not take powerful drug concoctions outside of a supervised medical regimen. 

[ncc1701d]

2 hours ago, dotpoom said:

I had a blood test and my testerone level was low. The doctor recommended one injection 250mg every 30 days, I'm 68 yrs. old. This was costing me 500 Bt. a go, so I bought a packet myself (containing about 20 viles) at the pharmacy and pay the same clinic 100 Baht a go to inject it for me. The result after all this..."Not a blind bit of difference"....feel exactly the same as before (and look the same too, methinks)

   Would I bother again...."No".

  When this lot is finished....no more for me.

A healthy male is producing about 70mg/wk of natural testosterone (which as we know will reduce with age). If you're taking 250 mg/m, you're taking just enough to shut down your natural production of Test for a week or two but not enough to make much gains after the second week - Depending which type of testosterone you are taking. Cypionate is different to propionate and so on. I am only guessing, but it sounds like the doctor that recommended this schedule is a GP, not one that specializes in trt or more. 

 

For both yourself and the op, i would follow the recommendations above and go see a specialist. I drive past one in Pattaya called Maximum Performance Wellness Center-Pattaya, 245/9-10 Moo 9. I’d also get a second opinion somewhere else and see who you prefer. I have different goals at the moment, so I haven’t been in there yet. 

 

Many things have (should) be monitored when doing this and it should not be taken lightly. I would not go any where near a DNP cycle. Most steroids in pill form are easier to take, but very rough on your liver and require some sort of liver protection regime. Steroids should not be taken to lose weight. You should already have a good diet and have a low body fat percentage, as side effects can occur in the fat you already have. Everyone is different - some say you should be as low as 12% before you even start test. I personally think it can be higher if you have a good in cycle and post cycle therapy. There is a lot you should research. 

 

If you’re serious, I’d do a lot more research (plenty of places out there, most talk about guys wanting to be fully jacked, but they will help you understand terminology and you can go to their forum and search what you are trying to achieve, you could start here: https://www.steroid.com/), and get some opinions from trt specialists.

[robblok]

19 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

There is a reason why people who have an understanding of these chemicals do not use them.  Every chemical aka "drug" one takes comes with side effects.  There is no such thing as a safe anabolic steroid. It's a trade off. Does short term use facilitate a patient's recovery from a wasting illness; does it help a boy achieve a successful puberty;does it help the patient manage a rare form of angioedema; and will it help a woman control her breast cancer? All serious diseases involving a delicate balance of hormones.

Almost all of its users will incur cardiovascular damage. It may be very mild, or it may be as severe as a heart attack or stroke, but it will occur. The people who claim they safely use it, have no basis to make such a claim, because we only know for sure once the skull is cracked open or the magical chest slice is made and the internal organs are scooped out to be examined.By then it is too late.

 

As for the proponents of testosterone. Low T is one of those super hyped conditions, like "restless leg syndrome", which is super promoted, but in reality  afflicts a miniscule number of patients. It has serious side effects, so unless the patient doesn't have functional testicles or wants to go bald, grow breasts, have some awful acne, it is bets avoided.

 

I am always amazed by the cavalier attitudes  so many people in TVF who support these chemicals use. They are sourced through the black market which means one doesn't know if the products are clean or pure. The proponents have no formal education in pharmaceuticals, let alone a  background in endocrinology, yet they  recommend the  chemicals. An endocrinologist struggles to get hormone dosing right for a patient, and it can literally take a year or more with constant monitoring and changes over the following years. Yet, the experts here, know the exact dose of dodgy  chemicals someone should take. Brilliant.

 

If you want to stay alive and reduce the risk of stroke, heart attack, liver disease and  cancer, do not take powerful drug concoctions outside of a supervised medical regimen. 

As usual you have no idea what your talking about and start with a lot of scare mongering based on untrue facts.

 

Its already quite normal for people to do TRT replacement without many problems (if you compare it with other medicine). You forget all the benefits they reap. I know your against it but there is no need to lie about stuff. That is the thing people hate most exaggerating claims to get a point across instead of basing it on fact. TRT replacement has been going on for quite some time with some problems but the MAJORITY has no problems.

 

As for the chemicals sourced from the black market that again shows that you have no clue what your talking about and shows your bias. Its quite easy to buy legit Bayer Schering steroids those are made in a normal pharmaceutical lab. No black market nothing.

 

I do agree with you that one should start under supervision of a Dr and do a lot of blood tests. 

 

Nothing is without dangers and if you got pre existing conditions with your heart or prostate (that is why dr's make you do a prostate test before you start with it).

 

Scare mongering wont help your like the guys screaming reefer madness.. we all know the US anti drug movie that was proven totally baseless. Your one of those guys. With proper monitoring of blood values and no pre existing conditions its safe for the large majority of people and brings tremendous benefits. I am not talking about huge muscles but about energy and lower belly fat (both stuff that could kill you) No medicine is safe you have to see how it stacks up against the risks of what your combating.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3897047/

 

Lets put some facts in the discussion.

 

SYSTEMIC EFFECTS OF TESTOSTERONE

The systemic effects of TRT may be exacerbated in men with limited cardiovascular reserve. Previous dogma held that androgens could have atherogenic potential. In a randomized, placebo-controlled trial, Basaria et al. reported an increased risk of cardiovascular events in men randomized to TRT; however, this small cohort had a high prevalence of chronic disease.[46] Today, current literature suggests that TRT has a neutral to beneficial effect on reported cardiovascular events.[47,48] Because some men may have a limited cardiovascular capacity, clinicians prescribing TRT must be cautious with respect to its ability to cause edema.[49] Until date, no longitudinal studies examine the impact of TRT on the cardiovascular system, however some studies suggest that TRT may serve as an adjunct rehabilitative therapy in patients with congestive heart failure (CHF).[50,51,52]

Edited June 18, 2018 by robblok

[timber]

You are at the age you need to make some decisions.  Your metabolism in diminishing and if the effort worth it.  Not so hard to stay in good shape, but harder and hard to remain in excellent shape.  Same with sex drive.  How important is is to you?

[NoshowJones]

3 hours ago, quandow said:

I lost a friend in Pattaya who was juicing. Late 30's, no WAY he should have died the way he did.

Unless I have missed something. Can you please explain what you mean by juicing?

[mokwit]

A key point to bear in mind that has been touched on is that exogonous Testosterone will shut down your natural production - the longer you are on it and the older you are the more likely that this shut down will be permanent. If you are an older guy with very low T then this is not really so much of an issue but if you are still producing your own be advised that you COULD end up not really that much better off but now required to take T for the rest of your life. It is for this reason that have held back from TRT - instead I substitute at the margin with a Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) analog Proviron [mesterolone] taken orally without risk of T shut down, risk to liver and maybe not lipid profile at lower doses. i.e doses up to around 75mg which is the recommended therapeutic dose. It will improve the way you look by reducing circulating eostrogen and the associated water retention - some body builders take it pre contest for this to give a harder. sharper definition look. It supposedly has no anabolic (muscle developing) properties due to breakdown by an enzyme found in muscle but my experience was that I experienced change in bulk and shape of muscle just as described with known to be anabolic steroids.

 

KEY POINT

I use P for Testosterone supplementation (SUPPLEMENTATION not replacement). At age 54 - I still obviously produce T and don't want to shut down my T production by injecting T and can get the needed boost with Proviron. Proviron as a DHT derivative is one leg of a 3 legged stool - the others are Testosterone itself and Oestrogen and as such may NOT be suitable for T REPLACEMENT Therapy in older guys - not sure if it stimulates Bone Mineral Density for example.

 

*Conversely if you are in your teens and thus your Testosterone production is not long established you can shut down for life.

 

Mods. Proviron is legal in Thailand so please do not delete the above after I have spent time writing it for the benefit of others.