Testosterone, steroids, etc.

[tropo]

4 hours ago, hyku1147 said:

Tims has always been dependable? It is recommended to deal with the older woman.

You misunderstood. I'm talking about the quality/authenticity of the product, not the reliability of the pharmacist. I have no problem with them.

[tropo]

12 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Yes that makes good sense..

begs the question where can buy that Pharmaceutical grade? Huge difference in price or still affordable?

There is quite a price range among the 10ml UG stuff. From about 800 to 1200 baht. The pharmaceutical grade Testoviron Depot is around 180 per 1ml amp, so about 1800 for 10 ml... so it's still affordable on most budgets.

 

You should be able to find it at most pharmacies. I usually get mine at Fascino.

[tropo]

1 hour ago, hyku1147 said:

Perhaps a discussion with her would yield the information that you need?

A discussion with my own pharmacist, the one I've been using for many years, indicates that as far as he knows it's all good.

 

That's exactly what I would expect... and I don't think my pharmacist would knowingly sell me dud medicine. The problem is, I experienced negative things that I can't be sure has anything to do with a bad product, but I suspect it. I don't really want to use my body for testing. This was actually a new product as the one I used previously became unavailable. It could be something as simple as the carrier oils causing problems.

 

At the end of the day, multi-use vials were designed for veterinary use. Human grade hormones always come in single-use ampules. We know which is safer.

[Venkku]

On 8/6/2018 at 3:55 PM, Hummin said:

I got hold of a box of this now to 3 700,- baht 50 tablets 1mg. Can anyone verify it is the real thing? 

 

I read some take it monday-wednesday-friday, and it would be easier to rely to than cut them in querters? 

Those are from ug lab. Not real pharmaceutical. 

[Hummin]

3 hours ago, Venkku said:

Those are from ug lab. Not real pharmaceutical. 

Meaning?

 

However last bloodtest of what I felt had to be checked!

 

 

[Hummin]

Quite high T after 10 days on the 2. Shot og enathate 250mg 1ml? 

 

I have been a bull the last 10 days and my anger and irritation level have been explosive, but managable! Anyway my bloodpressure was 130/72 and I know if I did a second try It would have been lower. 

 

E2 got quickly down as well after 4x0,25 mg of Anastrol, and I am wondering if it is working that quick, or the lab test have been  wrong? 

 

I might go back to nebido, since Enathate seems like overkill to me, if I can not get a 10mm glass of euthentic T. 

 

Nebido was and felt alot better and normal! 

Edited August 14, 2018 by Hummin

[faraday]

Your 'bull' feeling will subside, & it's due to a sudden rise in Testosterone.

 

Nebido has a slower rise in the body, as it is released more gradually over a longer time.

 

Additionally, if you are not using a pharmaceutical produced hormone, they are often overdosed & sometimes underdosed, so the 250mg/ml it says on the vial might actually have more (or less) in, the former gives you a supra - maximal dose, resulting in a 'bull' feeling.

 

Mostly, I use pharma amps, which deliver the correct amount of hormone.

[Destiny1990]

12 hours ago, Hummin said:

Quite high T after 10 days on the 2. Shot og enathate 250mg 1ml? 

 

I have been a bull the last 10 days and my anger and irritation level have been explosive, but managable! Anyway my bloodpressure was 130/72 and I know if I did a second try It would have been lower. 

 

E2 got quickly down as well after 4x0,25 mg of Anastrol, and I am wondering if it is working that quick, or the lab test have been  wrong? 

 

I might go back to nebido, since Enathate seems like overkill to me, if I can not get a 10mm glass of euthentic T. 

 

Nebido was and felt alot better and normal! 

What’s a 10 mm glass of euthentic T?

 

[Hummin]

55 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

What’s a 10 mm glass of euthentic T?

 

This 

 

http://www.unigen-lifesciences.com/depo-test-250-testosterone-enanthate-thailand/

 

,5 ml every 8-10 or so, because what I have got now is overkill for me, and will now wait another week, before next shot. Im at 14 days now. 

Edited August 14, 2018 by Hummin

[Destiny1990]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

This 

 

http://www.unigen-lifesciences.com/depo-test-250-testosterone-enanthate-thailand/

 

,5 ml every 8-10 or so, because what I have got now is overkill for me, and will now wait another week, before next shot. Im at 14 days now. 

Yes u changed to a new T version and so u need to balance it all first out again. For me the issue  seems still complicated and i not looking forward to begin with supplement T at all but maybe if i start i be more enthusiastic.

why u not try find a reliable source of 10ml multi-use vials ? U can then do more lower dose shots without going through a roller coaster. 

Edited August 14, 2018 by Destiny1990

[faraday]

Unigen make 1ml/250mg Ampoules, which I used here about 5 years ago. The were well dosed, that is the correct amount of hormones was in the vial. Might be a good idea to try them. @Hummin

 

However,  I now live up north, & can only get Bayer.

 

Where do get get your supplies from. I'd love to get some Unigen or Rotexmedica.

 

Let me know, if you do know.

 

[Hummin]

7 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Yes u changed to a new T version and so u need to balance it all first out again. For me the issue  seems still complicated and i not looking forward to begin with supplement T at all but maybe if i start i be more enthusiastic.

why u not try find a reliable source of 10ml multi-use vials ? U can then do more lower dose shots without going through a roller coaster. 

My experience is Andriol testo caps is a very good treatment, and gives you what you need without skyrocketing or give you highs and lows, but due to I travel alot, and also need to go trough security when work, it is hard for me to plan, therefor I choosed injections. 

 

Nebido is great but expensive, and I am considering going back on that now, but will give it a try using my 1mg in less doses, meaning not use all of it. 

 

I still think this India/or whatever generic is a roulette game and we do put our health on risk. We are not supposed to be bodybuilders or 16-30 years anymore, we are just maintain a healthy hormon level. And I feel it is as easy to step wrong with T as any other substance you can abuse. 

 

I can not deny feeling like a bull, is a great feeling, but it is not sustainable with healthy living. 

 

I will let you know @faraday

[Hummin]

On 8/13/2018 at 7:12 PM, hyku1147 said:

Clomid:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22951175

 

Clomid derivative:

https://www.livescience.com/47094-clomid-treat-low-testosterone.html

So how to transfer to alternative treatment after using T for 24 months? 

 

Interesting but not before I have to turn down my T treatment of health issues, as I believe Clomid only will give you new challenges to deal with after long term use, if it is necessery to use long term to manintain your levels? 

 

I have never had so long stable period as I had now in my life after starting T treatment, and the feeling of bull and high aggression is quite a good change, but nothing I want to last to long. 

 

Hopefully we know more in time! 

[Destiny1990]

2 hours ago, Hummin said:

My experience is Andriol testo caps is a very good treatment, and gives you what you need without skyrocketing or give you highs and lows, but due to I travel alot, and also need to go trough security when work, it is hard for me to plan, therefor I choosed injections. 

 

Nebido is great but expensive, and I am considering going back on that now, but will give it a try using my 1mg in less doses, meaning not use all of it. 

 

I still think this India/or whatever generic is a roulette game and we do put our health on risk. We are not supposed to be bodybuilders or 16-30 years anymore, we are just maintain a healthy hormon level. And I feel it is as easy to step wrong with T as any other substance you can abuse. 

 

I can not deny feeling like a bull, is a great feeling, but it is not sustainable with healthy living. 

 

I will let you know @faraday

Did u took 2x 40 mg andriol testocaps daily?

Me too i travel lots i think pills are much easier to take with me then bringing needles vials etc

[Hummin]

6 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Did u took 2x 40 mg andriol testocaps daily?

Me too i travel lots i think pills are much easier to take with me then bringing needles vials etc

The problem with travelling is you have only limited amount you can bring back home, and when you have to work in restricted areas you need a certificate to bring medicaments with, and if you change working location from time to time, it is a hassel. 

 

I started with 120mg (3x40mg) pr day 3 weeks, and then maintained with 80mg (2x40mg) pr day which I felt was quite good and felt normal as I was 40 years. 

 

Nebido was a bit higher and then slowly fell from 5 - 9 weeks, but you need to start with one follow up shot after 6 weeks, then 8 and then 10 so then you can choose 10-12 weeks after that. Takes time to build a consisten level, and the high and lows do not feel so much. 

[Hummin]

9 hours ago, faraday said:

Unigen make 1ml/250mg Ampoules, which I used here about 5 years ago. The were well dosed, that is the correct amount of hormones was in the vial. Might be a good idea to try them. @Hummin

 

However,  I now live up north, & can only get Bayer.

 

Where do get get your supplies from. I'd love to get some Unigen or Rotexmedica.

 

Let me know, if you do know.

 

This was what I could get today! 

 

Anyone have experience with this one? I will make ,5 ml every week!?

[faraday]

No, I haven't seen this, but heard they're ok

 

I notice it's 300mg/ml, so 0.5ml every 7 days will of course be delivering 150mg. Should give you more stable results, perhaps less bull feeling.

 

Post up how you feel 2/3 after your first injection.

 

?

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, faraday said:

No, I haven't seen this, but heard they're ok

 

I notice it's 300mg/ml, so 0.5ml every 7 days will of course be delivering 150mg. Should give you more stable results, perhaps less bull feeling.

 

Post up how you feel 2/3 after your first injection.

 

?

I will check blood again after 17 days after my last 250mg shot, and see how my levels are, and then decide when to have one shot of this. As you say it is 300mg, and I can wait as long as 10 days maybe, we will se. 

[Hummin]

On 8/14/2018 at 7:55 AM, Hummin said:

Quite high T after 10 days on the 2. Shot og enathate 250mg 1ml? 

 

I have been a bull the last 10 days and my anger and irritation level have been explosive, but managable! Anyway my bloodpressure was 130/72 and I know if I did a second try It would have been lower. 

 

E2 got quickly down as well after 4x0,25 mg of Anastrol, and I am wondering if it is working that quick, or the lab test have been  wrong? 

 

I might go back to nebido, since Enathate seems like overkill to me, if I can not get a 10mm glass of euthentic T. 

 

Nebido was and felt alot better and normal! 

Feel I hit my sweet spot this morning, 17 days after last shot of 250mg enantate. So Im going to wait another few days, before shoot up a new 250, og maybe less, and see how it feels on the third one, or go for 1mg or less enan a week. I have also looked at sub injections, so I have options and decissions to make. 

 

Maybe closer to 4 weeks is a good cycle for me. Nothing would be better if that works out. I was back to normal strengt yesterday in the gym. The 5% extra strength i felt I got when my aggression was higher, is now as it was before. 

[Destiny1990]

4 hours ago, Hummin said:

Feel I hit my sweet spot this morning, 17 days after last shot of 250mg enantate. So Im going to wait another few days, before shoot up a new 250, og maybe less, and see how it feels on the third one, or go for 1mg or less enan a week. I have also looked at sub injections, so I have options and decissions to make. 

 

Maybe closer to 4 weeks is a good cycle for me. Nothing would be better if that works out. I was back to normal strengt yesterday in the gym. The 5% extra strength i felt I got when my aggression was higher, is now as it was before. 

Yes but if u inject 1 ml again then probably in first week u will be to high and 3 weeks later be to low.

just wondering is it possible to split a 1 ml vial  into 3 injections of 80 mg each divide over lets say 3 weeks time?

would  T levels stay much more stable like that?

Why it needs be multi use vials i mean if u only use a third of the vial u can store the rest correct?

Edited August 17, 2018 by Destiny1990

[Hummin]

5 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Yes but if u inject 1 ml again then probably in first week u will be to high and 3 weeks later be to low.

just wondering is it possible to split a 1 ml vial  into 3 injections of 80 mg each divide over lets say 3 weeks time?

would  T levels stay much more stable like that?

Why it needs be multi use vials i mean if u only use a third of the vial u can store the rest correct?

There can be complications injecting to often also, so you add complexity and risk to your treatment. 

 

I know I got "high" after my first Nebido, and I did not feel that the second time, then I used Andriol and Testo gel for awhile, and back to nebido, and no high then. But you need to build a "resoar" before you reach steady flow, and that takes 3-4 shots (talking out of my experience, and not any clinicle tests) 

 

What I felt after two injections Enathate was something stronger, and pretty intense feeling, not same nebido, which felt quite mild compare to this. I hope I will have a smoother feeling the 3. and 4. Time now. We will se. I am quite busy travelling, and do not want to bring this everywhere. If I can stretch it to 4 weeks, it is perfect. It is not about having a complete steady T, it is about feeling good, have energy, and function good day to day, and be healthy. Nebido gave me that even the T is not even close to be the same from first week to last week. 

 

I tried to get hold of nebido here, but they say Bayer do not have stock and do not deliver to Farmacies? 

 

 

[Destiny1990]

Today i got results of another bloodtest at a thai hospital did last week.

my testosterone total is 325,54 ng/dl and Estradiol is 11 pg/ml. 

i never tried TRT yet but some doctors did advise me to start.i dont smoke rarely drink are these numbers  now completely out of wack or just on the low side? Am nearly 50 years.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Destiny1990

[faraday]

T is ok.

 

Estrogen is way too low.

 

You need professional medical advice for that.

[faraday]

This:

https://www.guidelines.co.uk/mens-health/bssm-guideline-on-adult-testosterone-deficiency/453888.article

 

Thresholds for testosterone therapy

    Regarding the thresholds for treatment intervention in symptomatic men, British Society for Sexual Medicine (BSSM) and International Society for Sexual Medicine (ISSM) guidelines recommend the following:
        TT level lower than 8 nmol/l or FT level lower than 180 pmol/l (<0.180 nmol/l; based on 2 separate levels from 8 to 11 AM) usually requires testosterone therapy
        TT level higher than 12 nmol/l or FT level higher than 225 pmol/l (>0.225 nmol/l) does not require testosterone therapy
        levels from 8 to 12 nmol/l might require a trial of testosterone therapy for a minimum of 6 months based on symptoms

 

 

Estrogen (E2) 10 - 40 Pg,/, ml. Does vary though.

 

 

[tropo]

On 6/18/2018 at 8:01 AM, dotpoom said:

I had a blood test and my testerone level was low. The doctor recommended one injection 250mg every 30 days, I'm 68 yrs. old. This was costing me 500 Bt. a go, so I bought a packet myself (containing about 20 viles) at the pharmacy and pay the same clinic 100 Baht a go to inject it for me. The result after all this..."Not a blind bit of difference"....feel exactly the same as before (and look the same too, methinks)

   Would I bother again...."No".

  When this lot is finished....no more for me.

4

It's no wonder you got nothing. 250mg every 30 days is a joke. You probably felt better for the first week, and rapidly returned to your low state, with even less than before as the injection would start to shut your own production down. At the end of a month, you'd be worse off than before you started. Also, if you're carrying a fat layer of around 1 inch, which is quite typical of your age, you'd need a longer needle (1.5 inch) to get it into the muscle, where it is supposed to go. It's quite possible you injected it into fat, which would make dissipate too rapidly.

 

There's no way that a 68-year-old male wouldn't experience benefits if supplemented correctly.

 

Please read this (from Wikipedia):

Testosterone enanthate has an elimination half-life of 4.5 days and a mean residence time of 8.5 days when used as a depot intramuscular injection.^[1] It requires frequent administration of approximately once per week, and large fluctuations in testosterone levels result with it, with levels initially being elevated and supraphysiological.

 

I know, someone will quickly point out that Testosterone Depot, according to the leaflet insert, is OK for 3-weekly (every 21 days) injections, but IMO that's marketing nonsense. People don't enjoy frequent injections, so they're trying to make it more palatable to the average Joe.

 

 

 

[Destiny1990]

8 hours ago, faraday said:

This:

https://www.guidelines.co.uk/mens-health/bssm-guideline-on-adult-testosterone-deficiency/453888.article

 

Thresholds for testosterone therapy

    Regarding the thresholds for treatment intervention in symptomatic men, British Society for Sexual Medicine (BSSM) and International Society for Sexual Medicine (ISSM) guidelines recommend the following:
        TT level lower than 8 nmol/l or FT level lower than 180 pmol/l (<0.180 nmol/l; based on 2 separate levels from 8 to 11 AM) usually requires testosterone therapy
        TT level higher than 12 nmol/l or FT level higher than 225 pmol/l (>0.225 nmol/l) does not require testosterone therapy
        levels from 8 to 12 nmol/l might require a trial of testosterone therapy for a minimum of 6 months based on symptoms

 

 

Estrogen (E2) 10 - 40 Pg,/, ml. Does vary though.

 

 

Okey thanks for the information here is my question 5 months ago i did blood test in Europe and my T level was 6,55 nmol/l. My Doctor said if it is under the 8 nmol/l should start with TRT. ( i think that’s correct) but did not start yet.

 

Now i did a test again in Thailand and it is 324 ng/dl. Can someone calculate please how much 324 ng/dl is in nmol/l? I tried but failed..

seems this score is maybe higher then my 6,55 nmol/l ?

 

Yes so now my estradiol is low too11 pg/ml but if i start with TRT then my estrogen level normally would go up from doing T so maybe another reason to start with TRT?

Seems my t and estrogen both on the low..

i feel fine in general buy lower energy and painfull joints since some yeRs.

[faraday]

324ng/dl = 11.24n/mols

 

You need to have your Testosterone measured in the mornings when it will be at it's highest.

 

Ok, you need to get some clarity on your hormone levels & while you could go to a TRT Clinic in BKK or wherever, they'll relieve you of quite alot of money in the process.

 

An opinion:

 

 Testosterone ( Free & Bound), Estradiol, LH, FSH. From that your SHBG will be calculated. Oh yea, do a PSA too.

 

Post up the results.

 

If tired & aching joints are your only mentioned symptoms, why are you focusing on Testosterone?

 

Learn as much as you can, go & see an Endocrinologist or a TRT Specialist, otherwise this is just a Q & A session.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Destiny1990]

4 hours ago, faraday said:

324ng/dl = 11.24n/mols

 

You need to have your Testosterone measured in the mornings when it will be at it's highest.

 

Ok, you need to get some clarity on your hormone levels & while you could go to a TRT Clinic in BKK or wherever, they'll relieve you of quite alot of money in the process.

 

An opinion:

 

 Testosterone ( Free & Bound), Estradiol, LH, FSH. From that your SHBG will be calculated. Oh yea, do a PSA too.

 

Post up the results.

 

If tired & aching joints are your only mentioned symptoms, why are you focusing on Testosterone?

 

Learn as much as you can, go & see an Endocrinologist or a TRT Specialist, otherwise this is just a Q & A session.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes now i just much more confused..

also u correct this time it was measured in afternoon apparently no problem for the hospital.

I not focused on testosterone but that’s the only thing that came out low on previous blood tests. However now my estrogen seem low other values like psa were fine.

However on this latest test my t level its suddenly much higher well above the 8 mols.

first test my T levels werr 7,3 mols second 6,5 mols and now suddenly in afternoon its 11,24 mols.The only thing i did was some acupuncture sessions for back pain could that have boost my  t levels? 

If that us really my current t level I should not do trt yet but maybe look try raise my estrogen oh well btw i not notice anything about this raise in t level from aprantly 6,5 to 11,5 mols.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Destiny1990

[faraday]

A suggestion:
Look at Hypogonadism.

 

[Destiny1990]

34 minutes ago, faraday said:

A suggestion:
Look at Hypogonadism.

 

Look i did 2 tests in Europe resulting in 6,5 and 7,3 nmol.. These levels were under the minimum range and trt was advised by my Europe hospital .now i did a test here 4 months ago resulting in 9,6 nmol and last week my test was even higher 11,5 nmol (after acupuncture)..its nolonger under the minimum the range for start up supplementing trt.

 

Conclusion First of all it seems that my T levels are lower in Europe then they are here. Based on this new test results i do not need trt.

However why my estrogen are so low no idea..

 

probably i do one more complete bloodtest at bkk pty hospital and or that clinic in klang rd with a complete analysis but slowly I begin get annoyed with whole proces..