Testosterone, steroids, etc.

[mokwit]

If anyone is feeling like sh*t because they can't get T injections, the gel Androgel and capsules andriol are available at Boots and sliding door RX Pharmacy near Nana. Andriol is around Bt1000+/- 100 for 60 caps = 30 days medium dose. Androgel was Bt3,000 for 30 sachets = 30 days but did not check if 20 or 40mg sachets.

 

Expensive and not as effective as T injections but maybe better than feeling lousy.

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, mokwit said:

If anyone is feeling like sh*t because they can't get T injections, the gel Androgel and capsules andriol are available at Boots and sliding door RX Pharmacy near Nana. Andriol is around Bt1000+/- 100 for 60 caps = 30 days medium dose. Androgel was Bt3,000 for 30 sachets = 30 days but did not check if 20 or 40mg sachets.

 

Expensive and not as effective as T injections but maybe better than feeling lousy.

Andriol is good to go, but the gel is only if you do not excoersize or spend much time in sun, or are very intim with your gf. Not good for you misses, if she get that on her skin. 

[faraday]

Delivered today!

 

 

 

 

[Dumbastheycome]

You  lot  are  seriously  strange   and  entertaining, briefly

[faraday]

47 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

You  lot  are  seriously  strange   and  entertaining, briefly

How have you reached that conclusion?

[StreetCowboy]

However hypocritical it may sound, don't bother coming down to the station if you're doped up to the eyeballs.  We cycle clean, until we get to the pub

 

[robblok]

9 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

However hypocritical it may sound, don't bother coming down to the station if you're doped up to the eyeballs.  We cycle clean, until we get to the pub

 

TRT is not doped up, big difference. If you don't know what your talking about it its better to inform yourself a bit better. TRT is helping people with low levels to get normal levels. Those levels might be a bit high at times but in now way can you compare this with the high doses used by bodybuilders or other athletes. The dose is about 4 times as low as starting dose for real doping up.  

 

https://www.askmen.com/sports/health_200/222_mens_health.html

 

The drugs used by TRT participants and steroid users are actually quite similar, in that they both contain forms of testosterone. However, the poison, as they say, is in the dose.

I asked John Romaniello, fitness coach and co-author of the New York Times bestseller Engineering the Alpha, his thoughts on the difference between TRT and steroids. 

 

“The first thing to remember is that in most cases, the compounds being used by someone in TRT vs. someone using steroids for performance or physique enhancement are identical. What differs—other than the obvious, like legality and medical supervision—is the reason for use and the dose,” he says. 

“TRT doses are intended to keep your testosterone levels in the normal range (usually at the high end). Steroids, on the other hand, are usually used to push you into what is called the supra-physiological range of testosterone. That is, higher levels than what you could produce naturally.”

Edited February 15, 2019 by robblok

[mokwit]

9 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

However hypocritical it may sound, don't bother coming down to the station if you're doped up to the eyeballs.  We cycle clean, until we get to the pub

 

As far as I can tell it is actually cyclist who are the ones doping up to their eyeballs. Oh, and by the way, if you are representative of your group, relax, we won't be coming down to the station, even though we are not doped up to the eyeballs.

[Hummin]

I have strenght and energy as an normal 35 - 40 year old man. After awhile, you do not feel any difference than just normal. Even in the low end, I still feel great, and before, I could get some bull feeling after some few days getting a new dose, but now, hardly feel. A bit harder in the morning, like a 20 year, but thats no harm. 

 

Trt have been a very good experience for me the last 2 1/2 years, and now it will be hard to stop, if not impossible. Im on this medicine for lifetime, same as other are on lifetime medication for other reasons. 

 

The most important, TRT helped to turn my life around, and I managed to stop the spiraldown getting useless in every term physical and menthally. 

 

Now I have healthy weight, exorcise regulary, eat healty,  sleep good, and a very good sex life. 

Edited February 15, 2019 by Hummin

[eezergood]

6 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I have strenght and energy as an normal 35 - 40 year old man. After awhile, you do not feel any difference than just normal. Even in the low end, I still feel great, and before, I could get some bull feeling after some few days getting a new dose, but now, hardly feel. A bit harder in the morning, like a 20 year, but thats no harm. 

 

Trt have been a very good experience for me the last 2 1/2 years, and now it will be hard to stop, if not impossible. Im on this medicine for lifetime, same as other are on lifetime medication for other reasons. 

 

The most important, TRT helped to turn my life around, and I managed to stop the spiraldown getting useless in every term physical and menthally. 

 

Now I have healthy waight, exorcise regulary, eat healty, and sleep good, and a very good sex life. 

great news!! 

[Dumbastheycome]

36 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

"I told them that they were goofy clowns:

 

Yep.

[robblok]

Just for the record, most people in this topic are talking about TRT, a low dose of testosterone to keep natural levels high. This is not the same as using it for bodydybuilder or other reasons. The dosage is totally different.

 

Most here are older with low T, my T was never really high so i took it too to boost it. It has helped me a lot energy wise and I am sure it helps in the gym too. I have in the past ever done a cycle for bodybuilder use (more then 10 years  ago) and I can tell anyone the difference is huge. When your injecting high levels you will see great changes if you workout and eat right. 

 

This is not the case for TRT, you will make progress and it will help especially compared before taking it because its about people with low T. But its not that noticeable in the gym (should not as we are talking about high normal levels)

 

Just to clear a few things up for those reading this topic who have no idea what we are talking about and think everyone who does testosterone is doing it to Dope up.

 

In a way it was good that @StreetCowboy brought it up he probably said what many were thinking. I never thought about explaining the difference as I thought most would know. I was wrong.

Edited February 15, 2019 by robblok

[StreetCowboy]

Sorry, Robblok, my comment was meant as good-natured banter; I obviously worded it poorly.

 

As we discussed in another thread, I was surprised how limited quantities of commonly available prescription drugs could have an apparent impact on performance (although when I read more, I was not so sure in the case of that particular corticosteroid - maybe I was just quickly getting fitter at that time).

 

SC

[mokwit]

Corticosteroids e.g. Cortisol have the opposite effect to anabolic steroids e.g Testosterone - actually CCstds are also called catabolic steroids because they break down muscle, not build it up.

Edited February 15, 2019 by mokwit

[robblok]

34 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Sorry, Robblok, my comment was meant as good-natured banter; I obviously worded it poorly.

 

As we discussed in another thread, I was surprised how limited quantities of commonly available prescription drugs could have an apparent impact on performance (although when I read more, I was not so sure in the case of that particular corticosteroid - maybe I was just quickly getting fitter at that time).

 

SC

Ok did not see that one coming maybe because many people do think that every one who does strength training dopes up. Maybe I am over sensitive about it its possible. 

 

Yes drugs have an impact, I am sure that TRT has impact too. But its not that noticeable as real big doses of testosterone. I know as I have done both. When I did a cycle (10 weeks) of 500mg -750 mg test per week I could almost add new plates to the bar every week. That is certainly not the case with TRT. Recovery was so fast and I added quite a bit of muscle. This was 10 years ago but i still remember it as I was amazed at the effect. (of course that can't go on forever).

 

I am sure the TRT helps me too, but i can't say i notice or feel it. (during my training). I do notice it energy wise in my normal life. 

 

I don't mind banter, just have to be more attuned to it, anyway it keeps the topic alive.

 

Have you ever tried to take 200mg of caffeine before a ride ? I know that i could take some caffeine and some other supplements id be buzzed and working out harder. I stopped doing it as you get used to it and then it does not work. But for an incidental hard workout it certainly pays off.

 

 

[Dumbastheycome]

I too apologize   if I got up anyones  nose.

20 years ago I worked with a couple of hard on  body builders one of which was into competition and so muscle bound he had difficulty  getting in and out of his  vehicle.

Then as now I am a 60 kilo 175 cm scrawny. But I could  dead lift the same as both of them. I would not attempt it  now.

I made  my small  gibe simply  in memory of it. And yes, I did  take the  piss outa  both of  them at the time. ( I could  run  faster too ! ) ????

 

 

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

I too apologize   if I got up anyones  nose.

20 years ago I worked with a couple of hard on  body builders one of which was into competition and so muscle bound he had difficulty  getting in and out of his  vehicle.

Then as now I am a 60 kilo 175 cm scrawny. But I could  dead lift the same as both of them. I would not attempt it  now.

I made  my small  gibe simply  in memory of it. And yes, I did  take the  piss outa  both of  them at the time. ( I could  run  faster too ! ) ????

 

 

Not all bodybuilders dead lift, i do at times but not always. When i started at my gym it was said that squat and dead lift were dangerous. I should have done it back then. Anyway usually big muscles mean strength too, but not always as you can attest too. Alternatively you were really strong. 

 

I don't care too much about size as I am big and strong enough, I am more interested in getting real lean. That is far harder for me. Plus once you get at a certain age its not recommended to do many low rep strength feats. When i dead-lifted 2 years ago i could do 180 kg x 5 reps (right now no way). 

 

Not sure I am interested in doing that again, because after every session I was totally burned out. I was lifting too close to my max and dead lift is really taxing on the system. I will probably bring it back in my program but with higher reps and lower weights. 

 

Biggest problem for older lifters is their joints so its better to go higher reps 8-12 or higher then lower with heavier weights. Both can make you strong and gain muscle. 

 

For me working out in a gym is the least boring thing I can do to stay in shape. Some days I like it other days I just do it because I have too. I am trying to add a bit more cardio, but i really hate it. Still I try.

[Destiny1990]

My situation i got low T its been measured 3x in several clinics and besides that i recently found out that i have high prolactine level.

soon i be back to clinic to find out what has caused my hormones to be out of balance. I been to several clinics and all said I should start with TRT but sofar I haven’t done anything..i still hope by lowering my prolactin level it will restore my T levels?.. Anyway here my question has TRT suplementation affected in anyway ur flaccid size? Smaller same bigger are the 3 options.

Edited February 16, 2019 by Destiny1990

[catman20]

4 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

My situation i got low T its been measured 3x in several clinics and besides that i recently found out that i have high prolactine level.

soon i be back to clinic to find out what has caused my hormones to be out of balance. I been to several clinics and all said I should start with TRT but sofar I haven’t done anything..i still hope by lowering my prolactin level it will restore my T levels?.. Anyway here my question has TRT suplementation affected in anyway ur flaccid size? Smaller same bigger are the 3 options.

same

[robblok]

15 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

My situation i got low T its been measured 3x in several clinics and besides that i recently found out that i have high prolactine level.

soon i be back to clinic to find out what has caused my hormones to be out of balance. I been to several clinics and all said I should start with TRT but sofar I haven’t done anything..i still hope by lowering my prolactin level it will restore my T levels?.. Anyway here my question has TRT suplementation affected in anyway ur flaccid size? Smaller same bigger are the 3 options.

The myth is about ball size, and it does not happen to many people. You should read the link of T nation about that that i posted here. My size has not changed one bit. 

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

The anti-aromatase action of Arimidex tricks (to the best of my knowledge) the hypothalamus and  the pituitary gland in to secreting gonadotropins which signal the testes to produce testosterone. My question is - does this process continue once one starts TRT? In other words, will Arimidex supplementation maintain testicular function?

AFIK your own production goes down or gets to zero if you add ANY external testosterone. You can get your production back after you stop with various compounds but not as long as your on TRT.

 

It will not affect size or function at all, but its a risk if you later don't want to do TRT the period getting back would be hard. Besides you do TRT because you got low levels, if you stop you will have the same low levels again.

[mokwit]

1 hour ago, hyku1147 said:

The anti-aromatase action of Arimidex tricks (to the best of my knowledge) the hypothalamus and  the pituitary gland in to secreting gonadotropins which signal the testes to produce testosterone. My question is - does this process continue once one starts TRT? In other words, will Arimidex supplementation maintain testicular function?

I have seen research that has found that both Arimidex and Clomiphene can stop suppression of Gonadotrophins IF the exogenous Test dose corresponds to normal physiological ranges.

 

The blockade/no E of Pituitary E receptors overrides actions of E T and DHT on Hypothalamus receptors. Blood work suggested my use clomiphine seems to have stopped any suppression of T production by Proviron at a dose some say is suppressive. 

 

The E receptors are the most sensitive in causing suppression/shut down at physiological doses. At higher levels i.e bodybuilder supra physiological levels T itself and resultant DHT levels will cause shut down - they kick in at much higher levels but totally shut down T production which is why Bodybuilders cannot maintain production with clomiphene.

 

This is my understanding- not suggesting i am a definitive authority

[Ks45672]

On 2/12/2019 at 6:34 AM, chilli42 said:

 

Anyone using Thai versions of human growth hormone /hgh? 

[robblok]

22 hours ago, Ks45672 said:

Anyone using Thai versions of human growth hormone /hgh? 

No, did buy some from China years and years ago. They were legit but definitely not worth the money for me. Your looking at a minimum of 8$ a day for 4iu and that for more then half a year to see any improvements. That combined that the improvements are not that big, (i never lost much fat on it diet could have done it) its a true waste of money IMHO. Unless you got money to burn.

[mokwit]

This video pretty much sums up why GH unless bought from a controlled supply chain is likely to be a waste of money - esp in a hot climate like TH.

 

 

As for the pellet that you mix with water, there are suspicions regarding that in TH too.

[faraday]

22 hours ago, Ks45672 said:

Anyone using Thai versions of human growth hormone /hgh? 

I've never used Gh, because as Rob says, it's too expensive & the gains/effects are minimal.

 

I used Peptides a few years ago in the UK; the main advantage with them is that they stimulate the Pituitary into producing your natural gh. However, to get good results, you need to subq them 3 X a day - which is really boring.

If you're interested, try googling Paul Scarborough who has written a lot about using them.

[Ks45672]

18 hours ago, robblok said:

No, did buy some from China years and years ago. They were legit but definitely not worth the money for me. Your looking at a minimum of 8$ a day for 4iu and that for more then half a year to see any improvements. That combined that the improvements are not that big, (i never lost much fat on it diet could have done it) its a true waste of money IMHO. Unless you got money to burn.

I think it's cheaper now than it used to be but yes, seems like more hassle than it's worth 

 

Could probably get most of the same effects with a slightly higher dose of testosterone for safer and much cheaper 

 

I don't fancy the subcutaneous injections multiple times a day, even if they are tiny pinholes.... 

 

 

[robblok]

3 hours ago, Ks45672 said:

I think it's cheaper now than it used to be but yes, seems like more hassle than it's worth 

 

Could probably get most of the same effects with a slightly higher dose of testosterone for safer and much cheaper 

 

I don't fancy the subcutaneous injections multiple times a day, even if they are tiny pinholes.... 

 

 

I think its still around the same price i still get advertisements from the original seller. Its a real pharmaceutical company. They still sell it and they (in the past) guaranteed delivery. 

 

I was not to worried about the injections, they are done with a insulin needle in the belly. I was just not happy with how it worked. For me really not worth it.

[Ks45672]

16 hours ago, robblok said:

I think its still around the same price i still get advertisements from the original seller. Its a real pharmaceutical company. They still sell it and they (in the past) guaranteed delivery. 

 

I was not to worried about the injections, they are done with a insulin needle in the belly. I was just not happy with how it worked. For me really not worth it.

Its over 10 years since i researched HGH and decided not to bother

 

A friend asked me lately to do a course together but i assumed it would have fell in price since it was fairly new over a decade ago and even the Chinese grey market brands were charging a lot,maybe they still are (haven't checked) 

 

Vitamin T suits me very well and it costs $2.30 a week

 

i take 250/300mg (depends on what brand is in stock) of generic sustanon a week and get the desired results

 

Feel energetic, good mood and strong in the gym etc 

 

When i was younger I've tried taking up to 750-1g a week and got nearly same experience as you 

 

 

The upsides :

Felt like superman lifting heaviest weights in the gym like they were nothing 

Body weight went from high 70s  to 105kg and i was running few km a day, hill sprints, heavy weights every morning and sparring 3 x nights a week with real heavyweights. 

 

Had Near unlimited energy, jogging, pushups, skipping or monkey bars any  nights the boxing gym was closed and seemed to not need recovery days 

 

The downsides :

 

Eventually i got tired of always being hungry/cooking/eating so i stopped 

 

(i was starving almost every hour because that amount of extra weight/muscle ~25kg) is  expensive to maintain)

If 100-120kg is your natural weight, maybe then your metabolism is slower and you don't need to eat as much as i did 

 

For me, back then It was just a short term experiment to see how strong /big i will get , i would not advise anyone to try  high doses now because back then we didn't do bloodwork etc and  dangerous side effects are possible 

 

Endocrinologists is not expensive in Thai and will put you on the exact amount you need without the guesswork....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[robblok]

7 hours ago, Ks45672 said:

Its over 10 years since i researched HGH and decided not to bother

 

A friend asked me lately to do a course together but i assumed it would have fell in price since it was fairly new over a decade ago and even the Chinese grey market brands were charging a lot,maybe they still are (haven't checked) 

 

Vitamin T suits me very well and it costs $2.30 a week

 

i take 250/300mg (depends on what brand is in stock) of generic sustanon a week and get the desired results

 

Feel energetic, good mood and strong in the gym etc 

 

When i was younger I've tried taking up to 750-1g a week and got nearly same experience as you 

 

 

The upsides :

Felt like superman lifting heaviest weights in the gym like they were nothing 

Body weight went from high 70s  to 105kg and i was running few km a day, hill sprints, heavy weights every morning and sparring 3 x nights a week with real heavyweights. 

 

Had Near unlimited energy, jogging, pushups, skipping or monkey bars any  nights the boxing gym was closed and seemed to not need recovery days 

 

The downsides :

 

Eventually i got tired of always being hungry/cooking/eating so i stopped 

 

(i was starving almost every hour because that amount of extra weight/muscle ~25kg) is  expensive to maintain)

If 100-120kg is your natural weight, maybe then your metabolism is slower and you don't need to eat as much as i did 

 

For me, back then It was just a short term experiment to see how strong /big i will get , i would not advise anyone to try  high doses now because back then we didn't do bloodwork etc and  dangerous side effects are possible 

 

Endocrinologists is not expensive in Thai and will put you on the exact amount you need without the guesswork....

 

With TRT there is no guesswork for me, just a little self study and a friendly clinic that does blood tests. For those of us who have brains its not that hard to figure out after you understand half life of compounds and do your own blood tests. So no guess work I know what dose works for me.

 

As for your experiece won 750-1g yes similar to me though I did not increase my body-weight that much. Once i started with it I already had a good base muscle wise so the increase was there but not as big as your increase. I was also not that young so I still needed recovery but less.

 

I am the opposite of you, i never have to worry about keeping muscle, i have to worry about losing fat. Its just how I am so I never had to increase my food intake that high. 

 

Different bodies have different metabolic rates and hold on different to muscle. I had a friend like you a hard gainer but always real lean. We ate a lot different (trained together) I got strong easier big easier.. but never as lean as he did. Just different body types and i knew a lot less about food and diet back then.

 

Anyway IMHO HGH is not worth it but who knows it might work for you but the prices are crazy.