13 hours ago, dotpoom said:

I had a blood test and my testerone level was low. The doctor recommended one injection 250mg every 30 days, I'm 68 yrs. old. This was costing me 500 Bt. a go, so I bought a packet myself (containing about 20 viles) at the pharmacy and pay the same clinic 100 Baht a go to inject it for me. The result after all this..."Not a blind bit of difference"....feel exactly the same as before (and look the same too, methinks)

   Would I bother again...."No".

  When this lot is finished....no more for me.

 

Where did you buy the shots from? There's a lot of counterfeit steroids in Thailand. 

 

 

 

14 hours ago, dotpoom said:

I had a blood test and my testerone level was low. The doctor recommended one injection 250mg every 30 days, I'm 68 yrs. old. This was costing me 500 Bt. a go, so I bought a packet myself (containing about 20 viles) at the pharmacy and pay the same clinic 100 Baht a go to inject it for me. The result after all this..."Not a blind bit of difference"....feel exactly the same as before (and look the same too, methinks)

   Would I bother again...."No".

  When this lot is finished....no more for me.

 

 

 

 

So what exactly was the testosterone you bought?

 

5 hours ago, robblok said:

Yes its a limitation, BUT you can still improve a lot on yourself if you havent exercised before or eaten healthy.

 

However people like us will probably only go down. I am still making some progress but I accept that it won't always be that way and that I will go down too. But that does not mean you can't be in better shape then those who don't exercise or eat healthy. 

3

This discussion would have been unnecessary if not for the member earlier that suggested that a 54-year-old could become superhuman with the appropriate supplementation program.

 

It may sound negative to the "age is only a number" crowd, but it's actually a positive thing to be aware of age limitations and make allowances for it. It's a time in one's life that "first, do no harm" becomes a valuable training philosophy, and especially for a beginner of that age. More to topic - it's certainly not the time to start heavy juicing in the hope one can prove me wrong.

9 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

If i take zinc supplements for a couple of days in a row i become uncomfortable in my thinking process.

like my memory start functioning less..

Then you are taking too much. There is zinc in red meat and nuts. Oysters are the best source though.

9 hours ago, amexpat said:

Urologists?  Hah!  TV is the place to go for expert medical advice. 

The sports industry has lead the way in supplements. Bodybuilders were taking zinc in the 1980s. Most doctors had no clue what zinc did back then. 

https://www.healthline.com/health/testosterone-and-zinc

 

 

10 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Give  up the   "training "  dream. At  54  you are  already  two  times the  age of  progressive incremental atrophy.

Just  eat   as  healthy  as you  can afford  to without  excess.

Think  "maintainence".  Nature  can  not be  beaten.  Just  enjoy  what you can  keep of  whatever you have.

I think its crazy to give up any training dream especially if you just start then even at age of 54 you can make great progress. Usually people who talk like this are those who have given up and let themselves go. But if your 54 and have trained already then yes your right you can't gain much more muscle if you have been training for a long time and serious. Then its just a matter of maintenance or slowing down decline.

11 hours ago, amexpat said:

Urologists?  Hah!  TV is the place to go for expert medical advice. 

 

Not really, but TV helps a lot to identify problems. My urologist did not know anything and was more interested in pushing pills then to do an examination at all. People seem to think that doctors know it all, they don't. I am an accountant and fiscal adviser by trade but I don't know each and every bit of law, some of my clients know certain real specialist parts better then me as I don't use those laws much. The same goes for Dr's they are great and know a lot but can't know it all and a lot of them don't keep updated on the latest news. 

9 hours ago, misterphil said:

 

Yes there are a lot of counter fit stuff around but if you get Bayer Schering stuff your good as its a normal pharmaceutical company and you can check if you got fakes or not. 

We have to determine what is the normal range of E2/Oestradiol in men though.

 

20 - 30 Pg/ml is quoted as being correct, but when I was a 26 Pg/ml I felt not good. Need to get bloods done again.

 

 

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

I think its crazy to give up any training dream especially if you just start then even at age of 54 you can make great progress. Usually people who talk like this are those who have given up and let themselves go. But if your 54 and have trained already then yes your right you can't gain much more muscle if you have been training for a long time and serious. Then its just a matter of maintenance or slowing down decline.

People make the best gains in the first 12 months. 50 to 100% strength gains. Massive fitness gains if doing cardio.

 

 

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yes there are a lot of counter fit stuff around but if you get Bayer Schering stuff your good as its a normal pharmaceutical company and you can check if you got fakes or not. 

We went on a short holiday to Phuket earlier this year, in Soi Ta tiet or however it's spelt, they had alot of aas, it was prohibitively expensive.

 

I use Testoviron, seems ok.

1 minute ago, faraday said:

We went on a short holiday to Phuket earlier this year, in Soi Ta tiet or however it's spelt, they had alot of aas, it was prohibitively expensive.

 

I use Testoviron, seems ok.

With Bayer Schering i meant Testoviron (or at least that is what it is). But its from a reputable pharmaceutical company. Prices seem to be around 3000 bt for 20 vials (enough for quite a long time if your doing HRT)

5 minutes ago, Justfine said:

People make the best gains in the first 12 months. 50 to 100% strength gains. Massive fitness gains if doing cardio.

 

 

Yes totally true that is why i said it kinda depends if the 54 yo is a newbie or an advanced trainer. 

What about Andriol testo caps, and Nebido?

 

Do you have any experience with them? What is the risk with fake products? 

 

17 minutes ago, Hummin said:

What about Andriol testo caps, and Nebido?

 

Do you have any experience with them? What is the risk with fake products? 

 

Oral tablets stress the liver more.

 

Nebido is great, but very expensive here. Nebido only needs injecting about every 3 months.

10 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

5-3-1stresses incremental gains, volume on the last set (rep out) and deload.

So, if your 1rm is 100k, you use 90% to calculate your set percentages. After one month add 5 pounds to your bench 1rm (10 pounds for squat and deadlift) and calculate again.

If I feel really over trained, I turn deload week in to a 2 week active rest period.

 

Seeking incremental gains is a safe strategy for over 50 lifters.

You should do whatever you feel is safe and OK for you, I understand the risks and don't go too low. We are all different in what we try and do. According to my genetic profile testing (did that a while back) I got a fast recovery rate and am not prone to injury. 

 

Still I never liked real low reps.. never got the right feeling when I did them. 5 x 5 even felt a bit low. But as I said we are all different all respond different to stimuli. 

11 minutes ago, faraday said:

Oral tablets stress the liver more.

 

Nebido is great, but very expensive here. Nebido only needs injecting about every 3 months.

From what i read, Andriol do not have that many side effects, if used as prescribed and monitored and kept inside the window of safe use. 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

What are the risks?

As was said in all those articles stress on the joints is higher as you lift heavy.

 

Though I have to admit some parts are hard to understand... 1 x 150 kg... is 150 kg stress... 10 x 70 kg = 700 kg stress.. maybe its just when stress on joints gets past certain levels. I get far more volume (weight x reps) done with lower weight then with singles.. so is that more or less stress.

 

I am just accepting what all the experts say in those articles but I havent figured out the reasoning behind it. 

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

From what i read, Andriol do not have that many side effects, if used as prescribed and monitored and kept inside the window of safe use. 

 

 

 

NO offence ment but what is the problem with injecting ? If your in Pattaya there are many places that will do it for you. Self injecting is a bit more tricky but also not that hard. Injecting is a far better way of getting the right amount in the body. 

 

I know at first i was scared but after 2 or 3 times that goes away.

21 minutes ago, faraday said:

Oral tablets stress the liver more.

True with 17 alpha alkylated orals

Not so with Andriol- it is not 17 alpha alkylated. It is formulated to be absorbed in the small intestine along with food lipid uptake and bypasses first pass via absorption into the lymph that way.

 

Other effectively non liver toxic oral androgens are Proviron [mesterolone] and Primobolan [methenolone acetate].

 

Of the 17 alpha alkylated, Anavar [oxandrolone] has low enough liver toxicity that it can be used in low doses for long periods - it is excreted almost unchanged and it seems there is something in the structure that prevents breakdown by liver enzymes and thus the liver does not work so hard at breaking it down the way it does with most different structured  17 alpha alkylated orals - some of which e.g Halotestin are very liver toxic.

 

But note: Oxandrolone and Primobolan are expensive and difficult to make and underground lab produced brands may be substituted with e.g Winstrol [Stanozolol] which does have some liver toxicity. This is less so now with manufacture in China and legitimate Indian Generic manufacture but still a risk.

56 minutes ago, Hummin said:

What about Andriol testo caps, and Nebido?

 

Do you have any experience with them? What is the risk with fake products? 

 

Very low risk of counterfeit product with these two.

1 hour ago, Justfine said:

People make the best gains in the first 12 months. 50 to 100% strength gains. Massive fitness gains if doing cardio.

 

 

actually....i didnt get anywhere the first year in spite of strict and hard workout,

another builder said maybe this just isnt for all...

but after that year, i was introduced to the pyramid, and boy did i explode in

strength and size every week ?!?!!!!!!!!

that same builder that had previously concluded i just wasnt going to get anywhere

got hugely impressed, too, just like everyone else.

the downside is injuries

19 minutes ago, robblok said:

NO offence ment but what is the problem with injecting ? If your in Pattaya there are many places that will do it for you. Self injecting is a bit more tricky but also not that hard. Injecting is a far better way of getting the right amount in the body. 

 

I know at first i was scared but after 2 or 3 times that goes away.

My personal avoidance of injection is a dislike of needles which I am confident i would overcome, the risk of infection/abscesses and one which is overlooked which is the sheer number of injections which in a bodybuilder in their 20's causes problems with scar tissue. If you are 54 and inject once a week then if you live to 84 that is effectively 1560 injections into two upper glutes - one maybe if doing yourself.Nebido at once very 3 months is less problematic.  Sub Q twice a week is also a lot of holes over 30years but not the same scar tissue issue.

30 minutes ago, robblok said:

I know at first i was scared but after 2 or 3 times that goes away.

the surreal situation of getting alien fluids injected into my naked ar$e

by another big man didnt drop in intensity,

and i dont want to find out if it ever will

3 minutes ago, poanoi said:

the surreal situation of getting alien fluids injected into my naked ar$e

by another big man didnt drop in intensity,

and i dont want to find out if it ever will

But it's only gay if you push back.

 

?

Just now, faraday said:

But it's only gay if you push back.

 

?

lol !

i did, but i tried to be discrete so as to not give ideas

41 minutes ago, mokwit said:

My personal avoidance of injection is a dislike of needles which I am confident i would overcome, the risk of infection/abscesses and one which is overlooked which is the sheer number of injections which in a bodybuilder in their 20's causes problems with scar tissue. If you are 54 and inject once a week then if you live to 84 that is effectively 1560 injections into two upper glutes - one maybe if doing yourself.Nebido at once very 3 months is less problematic.  Sub Q twice a week is also a lot of holes over 30years but not the same scar tissue issue.

Actually i read about sub Q for test not sure how many times you have to do that. We are talking TRT here not bodybuilding doses. 

37 minutes ago, poanoi said:

the surreal situation of getting alien fluids injected into my naked ar$e

by another big man didnt drop in intensity,

and i dont want to find out if it ever will

 

There are nurses who do it, actually my GF does my TRT injection. I did it for a while myself but preferred if she did it. I don't feel much of it. 

Decided not to post what i wrote.