Former Thai PM Thaksin: "I'm Calling It Quits"

[John K]

Ousted PM claims corruption cases against him not justified

Ousted Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has said despite many attempts to link his former government with corruption, he believes that no one would be found guilty when the cases go to court, Bernama news agency reported.

Telecommunication tycoon-turned politician said there might be alleged baseless evidence and some people would even try to bend the law just to justify the Sept 19 coup that ousted him, he said.

"But finally if it goes to the justice system, to the courts, I don't think there will be anyone guilty. We have done a lot to protect it, but corruption has become an excuse for every coup and some juntas in the past turn out to be more corrupt that the regimes they topple down," he said in an interview with Al Jazeera English TV station in Dubai last week and aired Wednesday.

The military, which cited wide spread corruption and power abuse during Thaksin's five-year reign for staging the coup, has established the Assets Examination Committee (AEC) to investigate alleged wrongdoing.

Thaksin, the longest serving elected premier in the country's history, received massive support from the rural population with his populist policies but allegation of corruption and cronyism led to massive street demonstrations against him last year.

Among the alleged corruption cases are the controversial sale of Thaksin's family-owned Shin Corporation, which controls various businesses like telecommunication and aviation, to Singapore's Temasek Holdings in January, 2006 and became the catalyst for his ouster.

Others are the construction of the Suvarnabhumi Airport which is facing numerous repairs just five months after opening, the airport link and the King Power duty free shops at the airport.

"Democracy must be returned to the people and power should not remain in the hands of some groups who tried to decide the destiny of the whole population themselves. And the Thai people are very patient, but their tolerance period is not that long," he said.

Bernama, Malaysia's national news agency, quoted Thaksin as telling the station if the junta was not doing it, he believed that the people would not allow them to hold the power.

He said as this was the first time that the military had staged a coup against a popular government, they should not waste time in justifying the coup but instead should take the time to reconcile the differences of the people of two sides.

During the interview, Thaksin said he was willing to help in the reconciliation process as he wanted to see Thailand moving forward.

The Nation

[John K]

Noppadon: Democrats slander Thaksin

(BangkokPost.com)

It was too much to accuse ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra of committing a rebellious act when he made a contract under the description of “freely elected prime minister of Thailand,” said his legal advisor Noppadon Pattama Thursday.

Democrat party executive Kobsak Sabhavasu on Wednesday exposed a document that showed Mr Thaksin hired another US lobbying firm Baker Botts LLP. It said Mr Thaksin described himself as the freely elected prime minister of Thailand, the description that Mr Kobsak said could be viewed as a rebellious act since His Majesty the King had appointed Gen Surayud Chulanont as prime minister.

“Being a rebel may get life for punishment,” he said. “This is slandering.”

Mr Noppadon confirmed the accuracy of the document, but said Mr Kobsak translated it inaccurately as the clause was part of a sentence in the past tense.

Mr Noppadon also claimed that he had expected someone would find this document since it was no secret. He said it could be downloaded from the company’s website.

To let news about Mr Thaksin rest a bit, Mr Noppadon said his boss would stop giving interviews with the foreign and Thai media for a while to “restore reconciliation.”

“Mr Thaksin would like to postpone the interviews,” he said. “He would like to give interviews at the appropriate time so people would not view him suspiciously.”

[John K]

Ok Guys, want a go at the translation and true meaning?

[Mid]

I don't think there will be anyone guilty. We have done a lot to protect it

[Plus]

Upcountry does not equate 'poor', or 'low class'.

Provincial and rural Thailand has exactly the same class system. You will find though very few urban middle class that come from poor upcountry families, who are depending on land less than ten Rai, or have no land and depend on seasonal labour.

Most urban middle class do come from well to do rural or provincial families.

That needs some proof. It could be argued that well to do rural and provincial families have no reason to move to Bangkok, become nobodies and start with a basic 6,000 baht monthly salary and life in a rented apartment, for example.

Of course the poorest of the poor couldn't probably afford sending their children to Bangkok.

Still it does not in any way prove that middle classes have disdain towards them.

[Tony Clifton]

Noppadon: Democrats slander Thaksin

(BangkokPost.com)

Mr Noppadon also claimed that he had expected someone would find this document since it was no secret. He said it could be downloaded from the company’s website.

More bull from the legal troll.

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[Siripon]

Noppadon: Democrats slander Thaksin

(BangkokPost.com)

It was too much to accuse ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra of committing a rebellious act when he made a contract under the description of “freely elected prime minister of Thailand,” said his legal advisor Noppadon Pattama Thursday.

Democrat party executive Kobsak Sabhavasu on Wednesday exposed a document that showed Mr Thaksin hired another US lobbying firm Baker Botts LLP. It said Mr Thaksin described himself as the freely elected prime minister of Thailand, the description that Mr Kobsak said could be viewed as a rebellious act since His Majesty the King had appointed Gen Surayud Chulanont as prime minister.

“Being a rebel may get life for punishment,” he said. “This is slandering.”

Mr Noppadon confirmed the accuracy of the document, but said Mr Kobsak translated it inaccurately as the clause was part of a sentence in the past tense.

Mr Noppadon also claimed that he had expected someone would find this document since it was no secret. He said it could be downloaded from the company’s website.

To let news about Mr Thaksin rest a bit, Mr Noppadon said his boss would stop giving interviews with the foreign and Thai media for a while to “restore reconciliation.”

“Mr Thaksin would like to postpone the interviews,” he said. “He would like to give interviews at the appropriate time so people would not view him suspiciously.”

After hearing Sonthi Limthongkun and other hard hitting journalists wanted to interview him in Australia our glorious ex-leader shied off.

In Thai a man of courage is called luk puchai, perhaps Thaksin should be called luk katheoy.

[younghusband]

Noppadon: Democrats slander Thaksin

(BangkokPost.com)

It was too much to accuse ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra of committing a rebellious act when he made a contract under the description of “freely elected prime minister of Thailand,” said his legal advisor Noppadon Pattama Thursday.

Democrat party executive Kobsak Sabhavasu on Wednesday exposed a document that showed Mr Thaksin hired another US lobbying firm Baker Botts LLP. It said Mr Thaksin described himself as the freely elected prime minister of Thailand, the description that Mr Kobsak said could be viewed as a rebellious act since His Majesty the King had appointed Gen Surayud Chulanont as prime minister.

“Being a rebel may get life for punishment,” he said. “This is slandering.”

Mr Noppadon confirmed the accuracy of the document, but said Mr Kobsak translated it inaccurately as the clause was part of a sentence in the past tense.

Mr Noppadon also claimed that he had expected someone would find this document since it was no secret. He said it could be downloaded from the company’s website.

To let news about Mr Thaksin rest a bit, Mr Noppadon said his boss would stop giving interviews with the foreign and Thai media for a while to “restore reconciliation.”

“Mr Thaksin would like to postpone the interviews,” he said. “He would like to give interviews at the appropriate time so people would not view him suspiciously.”

After hearing Sonthi Limthongkun and other hard hitting journalists wanted to interview him in Australia our glorious ex-leader shied off.

In Thai a man of courage is called luk puchai, perhaps Thaksin should be called luk katheoy.

Make up your mind.The Thaksin obsessed mob was only recently damning him for giving interviews.Now you're damning him for not doing so.Poor sod can't win.

<snip>

Edited February 9, 2007 by Jai Dee
Flame comment deleted

[ColPyat]

Upcountry does not equate 'poor', or 'low class'.

Provincial and rural Thailand has exactly the same class system. You will find though very few urban middle class that come from poor upcountry families, who are depending on land less than ten Rai, or have no land and depend on seasonal labour.

Most urban middle class do come from well to do rural or provincial families.

That needs some proof. It could be argued that well to do rural and provincial families have no reason to move to Bangkok, become nobodies and start with a basic 6,000 baht monthly salary and life in a rented apartment, for example.

Of course the poorest of the poor couldn't probably afford sending their children to Bangkok.

Still it does not in any way prove that middle classes have disdain towards them.

Anything could be argued, and you generally do so, even if against overwhelming evidence.

Basically, to find out that not all Thais in the provinces are poor, you just should go and travel to these provinces.

And, if you have ever worked in Bangkok, then you can easily find out that many people working in offices come from the rural areas. If you ask them about their background, you can easily find out where they come from, and the socio-economical situation of their parents.

Most do not come from the rural poor.

Many of these people do come to Bangkok for varied reasons, some because they want to escape provincial boredom, others because in their chosen professions they simply cannot find work anywhere outside the capital or close by industrial centres.

[sriracha john]

Indeed, enough of your superciliousness, and to truly return to the topic:

Sonthi, Thaksin take war of words to foreign media

Antagonists in politics, General Sonthi Boonyaratglin and former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra vied for attention through foreign media yesterday, as their comments were reported through separate outlets.

Speaking to the Japanese-language Asahi Shimbun, Sonthi defended the government against criticism it was working too slowly.

"It is because the government has taken its time to act. It is because the government has taken measures to do things properly and ensure transparency. It is different from the dictatorial administration of the former prime minister," the head of the Council for National Security (CNS) was quoted as saying in an interview published yesterday.

"I believe the public will come to understand that," he said.

Sonthi said he doubted Thaksin would return to Thailand.

"We will not stop him if he wishes to return, but I don't think he will be able to return, because of the ongoing corruption investigation against him," he told the daily.

Commenting on the CNS's reaction to Thaksin's political moves, Sonthi said Thaksin could speak his mind freely.

Sonthi yesterday met Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont to discuss organising a national merit-making ceremony on February 24. It would be held at 4pm on that day at Sanam Luang. Rites from other religions would be held at the same time, he said afterwards.

Meanwhile, Malaysia's Bernama News Agency reported Thaksin saying that despite many attempts to link his government with corruption, he believed no one would be found guilty once the cases went to court.

"Finally if it goes to the justice system, to the courts, I don't think there will be anyone guilty," he was reported as saying in an interview given to Al-Jazeera English-language television in Dubai last week and aired on Wednesday.

"We have done a lot to protect against it, but corruption has become an excuse for every coup, and some juntas in the past turn out to be more corrupt than the regimes they topple," Thaksin said.

- The Nation

[John K]

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind now that as kriptonite is to Superman.......

Truth, transparency, accountability, morality, honesty is to Thaksin.

I am very certain that Thaksin will only do solo interviews with select journalists. That may only leave 6th grade school newspapers or cash out of his pocket to pay for only his preselected questions.

[Barney_the_Dinosaur]

John.

We journalists would love to get in front of Thaksin. Many would offer 'quote approvals' as a quid pro quo, which is why interviews might seem so bowdlerised. I must confess I would too if it meant getting the interview.

[Jai Dee]

Some off-topic and flame posts have been deleted from this thread.

Please keep the discussion civil.

[Jai Dee]

CNS has secret plans to counter Pol. Lt. Col Thaksin

The Council for National Security chairman, Gen. Sonthi Boonyaratglin, and Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont yesterday (Feb 8) had a discussion on the preparation of the national religious ceremony on February 24th. However, Gen. Sonthi did not respond to the question whether he and the Prime Minister had a talk about former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Gen. Sonthi said the government will be the main host of the ceremony and the Internal Security Operations Command is help support the government. The activities will involve ceremonies of every religion.

However, Gen. Sonthi did not respond to the question whether he and the Prime Minister had a talk about former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, but he said the CNS and the government have a secret plan to counter him. The CNS is currently granting him freedom to express his opinions through the media.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 09 February 2007

[Maejo Man]

ahhh well... he's soon to become Australia's headache... Look out OZ! Thakky's on his way.

- Jakarta Post

Ousted Thai PM's suprise visit to Australia By Nick Butterly

Melbourne Sun Herald

February 09, 2007 01:40pm

DEPOSED Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has arrived in Australia on a surprise private visit.

The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) confirmed the former Thai leader was in Australia, but had no knowledge of his schedule.

The visit came as complete surprise to the Thai embassy in Canberra.

Contacted today, embassy officials expressed astonishment, asking which Australian government agency could confirm whether or not he really was in the country.

It is understood that Mr Thaksin arrived in Melbourne on a private jet last night.

The Thaksin Government was overthrown by a military coup in September last year while he was on a visit to the United States.

He has been accused by the military and by other political parties of corruption and been warned against returning to Thailand.

The Thai Government, which also has accused Thaksin of being behind a string of New Year's bombings, revoked his diplomatic passport after it accused him of making trips around the region that it dubbed politically motivated.

Since being thrown out of office, the billionaire media tycoon has toured Europe and Asia.

He has said he has no plans to return to politics.

[sriracha john]

Just before leaving for OZ:

Tanah Lot, BALI INDONESIA - Ousted Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra waves from a golf cart in Tanah Lot, on Bali island, 08 February 2007. According reports, Shinawatra arrived in Bali 07 February for golf and shopping on his second visit to the Indonesian resort island since he was ousted in the 2006 coup.

AFP

Ousted Thai PM Thaksin hires two US lobbying firms

BANGKOK - Ousted Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra, who has been living in self-imposed exile abroad since a September coup, has hired two US lobbying firms, his legal adviser said.

"He travels a lot and needs specialists in international law," Noppadol Pattama told reporters.

* getting ready for The Hague? *

Thaksin was in New York when the military overthrew his twice-elected government in a bloodless coup on September 19.

He first flew to London and is now hopping around Asia. He is currently staying in Indonesia's resort island of Bali.

Noppadol said Thaksin had hired Baker Botts LLP, a law firm whose Washington office is headed by a son of influential Republican and former secretary of state James Baker.

The firm will "develop and implement a strategic approach to the various international legal and political issues that confront Thaksin as a result of the coup," the statement released by Noppadol said, quoting the registration documents lobbying firms are required to submit to the US Congress.

The firm will also monitor Washington's policies toward Thailand's military-backed government, Noppadol said, adding Thaksin has also hired Barbour, Griffith and Rogers, another major lobbying firm.

The government has withdrawn Thaksin's diplomatic passport and urged the ousted leader to return to the kingdom only after general elections promised for later this year.

- AFP

Edited February 9, 2007 by sriracha john

[Jai Dee]

Mr Theeraphat: Government’s PR committee is not to counter ousted PM

Minister attached to the Prime Minister’s Office indicated that the establishment of a public relations committee and proactive public relations methods deployed to publicize the government’s achievements are not aimed to counter the former Prime Minister.

Minister attached to the Prime Minister’s Office, Theeraphat Serirangsan (ธีรภัทร์ เสรีรังสรรค์) said that the public relations committee’s main job is to inform the public of the government’s progress and correct information about controversial issues, not only those related the former PM Thaksin Shinawatra.

In response the Mr Thaksin’s interview with the Al Jazeera Network, saying that Thai courts cannot punish him, the minister said it is normal for the accused to claim that they are innocent.

Meanwhile, the government is now gathering information about the last government’s alleged corruption, violation to human rights, and unfairness to distribute to the public as soon as possible.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 09 February 2007

[Jai Dee]

Thai officials monitor Thaksin's Australian holiday

High level talks have been held between Thailand and Australia to prevent any embarrassing diplomatic gaffes during the former Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's current visit to Australia.

Mr Thaksin is on a private visit to Australia to play golf and visit friends.

A senior member of Thailand's Foreign Ministry has told the ABC that he is confident there will be no meetings between the former prime minister and Australian officials or ministers, after high level talks with Australia.

A meeting between Mr Thaksin and a senior minister in Singapore last month has caused tensions between those two countries.

The military backed junta in Thailand is also concerned about Mr Thaksin's media appearances.

A spokesman for the Thai Government says the regime hopes the ousted leader will not say anything that will adversely affect the national interests of Thailand or the good relationship with Australia.

Source: ABC News Online - 10 February 2007

[John K]

Has Thaksin been to anyplace he can call home in the last two months? I am beginning to wonder if anyone actually wants him. He is starting to look a bit like a virus, you don’t want him but there is not a lot you can do to stop him from coming.

[sriracha john]

Ousted Thai PM visits Australia

Reporter: Karen Percy

ELIZABETH JACKSON: Thailand's former prime minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, might be polishing his woods

( well... afterall, his wife did not accompany him on this trip.. ) and his irons for a relaxing day on the golf course today, but his visit to Australia could be anything but calm for Australian and Thai diplomacy.

While the Australian Government has condemned the coup which ousted him, it isn't exactly embracing his presence.

Mr Thaksin's visit is a private one, where he's keen to meet old friends and hit the greens.

But the deposed prime minister might find that his old friends and political colleagues in Australia are a little reluctant to meet him.

Our South East Asia Correspondent, Karen Percy, reports.

KAREN PERCY: Private visit or not, it's well-known that plenty of business gets done along the fairways. That's why the Thai Government isn't taking any chances with Thaksin Shinawatra's week-long visit to Australia.

It's been holding high-level talks with Australian officials to ensure there are no meetings or encounters that will embarrass the junta and cause diplomatic tensions between the two countries.

And Thai Government spokesman Yongyuth Mayalarp has hinted that Mr Thaksin's moves will be watched closely.

YONGYUTH MAYALARP: The agencies that deal with the national security aspects and the foreign affairs aspect, they will do their job in monitoring the situation, particularly regarding Thaksin, as his movement in the past has caused, has stirred some confusion.

KAREN PERCY: Since he was ousted in September's coup, Thaksin Shinawatra has refused to bow out of Thai life.

He lives in exile, mainly in Beijing these days, but his fondness for travel is causing headaches for governments around the region.

Last month there was friction between Thailand and Singapore after Mr Thaksin met a senior minister in a private meeting.

(to Yongyuth Mayalarp) Is Thaksin Shinawatra putting the Thai Government in a difficult position by visiting Australia and other places and courting the international media? Is he embarrassing you?

YONGYUTH MAYALARP: No, no. I think he's right to travel to wherever he wishes, of course. It doesn't give us any concern with regard to his visits, or his travelling. It's only just that if he wishes to give his interview, we hope that he will give constructive comments in the international arena.

KAREN PERCY: When word first broke in Thailand that Mr Thaksin would be in Australia this week and would allow interviews, there was a long list of Thai news agencies keen to speak to him.

But as it turns out, no Thai media will be attending, as the Bangkok Post's Editor-in-Chief, Pichai Chuensuksawadi, explains.

PICHAI CHEUNSUKSAWADI: That was postponed or called off, not because the press didn't want to interview him, I think we still do. If you get a chance to speak to him, please tell him that the Bangkok Post would like to interview him, wherever.

KAREN PERCY: The Australian Government has done nothing to prevent the visit, nor has it done anything more than allow him to enter the country.

A spokesman in Canberra says the Government remains concerned about the coup, and wants a return to democratic rule in Thailand.

The official line is that Thaksin Shinawatra is on a private visit.

But the Australian position would seem to be a pragmatic one, in light of the important trade links with Thailand, which totalled more than $9.5 billion (247.3 Billion Thai Baht) in the last financial year.

And while of course nothing has yet been proven against Mr Thaksin, there are still many ongoing investigations into his political and business dealings.

This is Karen Percy in Bangkok reporting for AM.

- ABC Radio

Edited February 11, 2007 by sriracha john

[Chang_paarp]

I don't think the Thai government should worry about TS giving an interview in Au.

I am sure TS would not like the aggressive form of questioning that the Au media like. Even the News journos do some research and like to ask questions that can make someone like TS squirm, a 60 seconds minutes interview would be fun to watch but not likely to happen. Something like when Richard Carlton confronted Marcos or Mugabe.

[Tony Clifton]

Thailand's Thaksin on holidays in Melbourne

Thailand's exiled Prime Minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, is in Australia on a private visit.

Mr Thaksin's private jet arrived in Melbourne last night.

His Bangkok-based lawyer says Mr Thaksin will play golf and have a holiday over the next 10 days.

But the military junta in Thailand has been concerned about Mr Thaksin's regional visits, particularly after he met a senior member of the Singapore Government last month.

The meeting has prompted a diplomatic spat between Thailand and Singapore.

Mr Thaksin's lawyer says the former prime minister has no plans to meet any government officials or ministers while in Australia.

Mr Thaksin was ousted from office in a coup in September of last year.

He was in New York at the time, and has not been allowed to return to Thailand.

Thai authorities are not yet commenting on Mr Thaksin's presence in Australia.

His visit to Australia is expected to attract scrutiny from Thai authorities concerned about a possible return to politics by Mr Thaksin.

A spokesman for the Australian Government says it is not aware of Mr Thaksin's itinerary.

http://australianetwork.com/news/stories/a...ies_1844509.htm

Ousted Thai PM seeks Sydney property

Thailand's ousted prime minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, says he is looking for property to buy in Sydney while visiting Australia.

Mr Thaksin has told the ABC he is interested in real estate while he is in Australia.

"I ask my friend to look for a house in Sydney, especially in the eastern suburbs," he said.

The billionaire former prime minister also says he is finished in Thai politics after September's coup.

"Not just the next election, but for life," he said.

Instead he says he is pondering an academic career focusing on alleviating poverty in the kingdom.

During his six years in office he provided affordable health care for the poorest Thais, as well as funding education and housing programs.

Yet a recent US study has shown that during Mr Thaksin's time in office the gap between rich and poor widened considerably.

Mr Thaksin is also the subject of a number of corruption investigations in Thailand.

He has been in exile ever since the coup in September and has been travelling the region in recent months doing media interviews to combat corruption allegations.

http://australianetwork.com/news/stories/a...ies_1845298.htm

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I wonder how Immigration in Oz can fast track PR for ole Tox.

[Chang_paarp]

I don't think the Thai government should worry about TS giving an interview in Au.

I am sure TS would not like the aggressive form of questioning that the Au media like. Even the News journos do some research and like to ask questions that can make someone like TS squirm, a 60 seconds minutes interview would be fun to watch but not likely to happen. Something like when Richard Carlton confronted Marcos or Mugabe.

Bugger, got that one very wrong.

[Jai Dee]

Thaksin movements overseas trigger national reconciliation at home

The Chairman of the Council for National Security (CNS) affirms that the public are aware of the true nature of national events, and in this way national reconciliation would be reached.

The Commander in Chief of the Army and the Chairman of the Council for National Security (CNS), Gen Sonthi Boonyaratkrin (สนธิ บุญยรัตกลิน ) commented on the incident in which former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra conducted interviews in Australia concerning the national reconcilation policy of the government and the Council for National Security. Gen Sonthi affirms that recent events and the emerging awareness of the Thai people is leading to national reconciliation. He said that the public could use their personal discretion in receiving and analyzing information.

Gen Sonthi said that former Prime Minister Thaksin's actions abroad would not affect the work of the government and the Council for National Security (CNS), and in fact facilitated smoother working processes.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 12 February 2007

[hammered]

There is an interesting article by Shawn Crispin on A-Times titled: Thaksin's loss, US's gain. It puts the current situation in a more global setting than we usually view it in

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/IB09Ae03.html

[ColPyat]

There is an interesting article by Shawn Crispin on A-Times titled: Thaksin's loss, US's gain. It puts the current situation in a more global setting than we usually view it in

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/IB09Ae03.html

There's a thread in the general forum about that article:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...105821&st=0

My comment was:

Sorry to be a fly in the ointment again, but i am not that impressed with Crispin's analyses.

What he does fail to mention is that "the coup makers" are not a monolithic organisation (which is almost always the tone of his articles), but a very diverse conglomerate of military factions that found itself in one common interest though still divided by many not unimportant details, such as ideology and the usual rivalries here. And within that conglomerate are many officers, especially under the younger and upcoming officers, who are very anti American and pro China.

Thaksin and TRT wasn't monolithic the same way. Personal business interests there have bridged political and ideological borders all along.

It's a simplification to just generalise the splits here along the lines of pro-Thaksin and anti-Thaksin, and put the military in one bucket of "pro US".

His mentioning of US fears of Thaksin being because of his Chinese ethnicy ("there were concurrent concerns in Washington that the ethnically Chinese Thaksin [1] was gradually moving Thailand closer to Beijing at the United States' strategic expense") more inclined towards China fails to mention that many very powerful people of his opposition are equally ethnic Chinese, and do have very close ties to China's leadership as well, and equal business interests in China.

Thailand always was heavily influenced by China, and Chinese. Even in times of the Ayutthaya period there were many Chinese living in Thailand, and had powerful positions in business and politics. Many Thai royals have Chinese blood as well.

Things are a lot more complex here than "Pro US" and "Pro China", especially when attaching such labels to different groups in Thai politics that do not exists in such clear lines as Crispin tries to make one believe.

Things here are in an evershifting flux, occasionally groups of vested interest find common ground, but more often than not they don't. There were times when the opposition to Thaksin and Thaksin worked on issues very well together, even though they were in many fundamentals seperated. It is a fallacy to believe that this has changed with the coup. There still are many groups of vested interest, and some are more inclined towards China, and some not, and most do very pragmatic momentary decisions that switch either way depending on situation.

Especially the policies towards China are not going to be decided along the same lines the US decides them, just because some members of the junta have benefitted from US scholarships and training.

Thailand will continue to walk its own way with China while compromising with the US, and at times not.

another counter argument was posted there by slimdod, an article by the nation:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/02/12...on_30026583.php

Post-coup Thailand in the eyes of the US and China

Thailand's relations, both strategic and related to defence, with the world's most powerful countries, the US and China, are akin to a cat-and-mouse game - nothing is left to chance.

Both countries play a pivotal role in Thailand's security, as well as its political and economic wellbeing, especially in the aftermath of the September 19 coup.

The US and China have each taken a distinct approach towards Thailand. At home, they were among the first countries to congratulate Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont, but both have greatly differed in their follow-up diplomatic activities. While Washington loudly condemned the coup, China was mute under the pretext of the principle of non-interference. An immediate ban of bilateral military assistance worth US$24 million (Bt818 million) was quickly imposed a few days after the coup by the US.

Speedily and discretely, China moved in to fill the void left by the US ban with a special assistance package that included $49 million worth of military aid and training. The good news was delivered to General Sonthi Boonyaratglin during his unpublicised trip to Beijing recently. At a time like this, China's new found power and influence is being felt deeply in Thailand.

Beijing continued with visits by several senior Chinese officials, mostly in the military and security fields. State councillor Tang Jiaxuan, a former Chinese foreign minister, will be visiting Bangkok after Chinese New Year to reaffirm Beijing's support of the Council for National Security (CNS) and the government. Tang has played a significant part in the Thailand-China friendship, as he penned the comprehensive framework of cooperation with former foreign minister Surin Pitsuwan in 1998, which subsequently led to similar agreements with all Asean members. It effectively signalled a new era of closer cooperation between Thailand and China after diplomatic relations were established in 1975.

The exchanging of visits between Surayud and his Chinese counterpart, Wen Jiabao, could be finalised during Tang's trip. Beijing wanted to delay Surayud's proposed visit to China on February 27 or 28 to either May or June, with Wen's return visit set for the end of the year. Beijing's reluctance drew a shrug from the Thai side.

So far no senior US officials have visited Thailand, except three former presidents, George Bush, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. Foreign Minister Nitya Pibulsonggram was unable to secure a positive response from the US State Department on the possibility of him visiting Washington late last month. It was a big blow for him given the extensive network in the capital that he has been building for over a decade. However, the worst has yet to come.

For almost three decades, Thailand and the US have been holding combined military exercises code-named Cobra Gold, which has transformed from a bilateral exercise to what is now the largest US joint military exercise in Asia. But the coup could change all of that this year. Decisions on the exercise will be made next week in Washington. Intra-security agencies will meet and review Thai-US relations and the coup's consequences. At this juncture, preparations for the exercise have yet to be called off.

The coup's aftermath and the latest Thai decision to produce copycat licensed drugs along with subsequent negotiated compromises, not to mention the unfinished Free Trade Agreement, have already turned off some Washington decision makers. They are the same people who follow Thailand's abuse of Karen and Hmong refugees and the country's attempt to forcibly repatriate them. Thaksin Shinawatra's hiring of James Baker's law firm to lobby the Congress and the US government to advocate for his return to power will also increase anti-American sentiment over here.

After a series of bomb blasts rocked Bangkok, Thaksin wanted to improve his sagging image and counter allegations that he was behind the incident. Ironically, he was identified in US Congress documents as the "freely-elected" Thai prime minister, rather than the usual "democratically-elected" leader. Thai folks tend to look suspiciously at the US government's growing ambiguity concerning the government and Thaksin.

Washington-based Thai diplomats know that officials in the Bush administration and lawmakers aere extremely disappointed with the CNS and the government for their failure to deliver a quick return to democracy and a business-like atmosphere. Media intimidation and Internet censorship has further rubbed salt into the wounds and will now form part of the annual human rights report on Thailand to be released by the US State Department at the end of the month. It will be more critical than last year's report.

Moreover, the government also shocked international investors and business communities with its capital control measures. With 35 provinces still under martial law and uncertainties surrounding the drafting of the new charter, it is difficult for Bangkok-based US Embassy officials - the same team that handled the 1991 coup with flying colours - and those from the European Union to defend their host country. The current government's performance pales miserably compared to the similar set up under the leadership of Anand Panyarachun in 1991.

All of the above has not posed any problems for the friendship between Thailand and China. In fact, the coup was a blessing for China, as it can now quickly fine-tune relations with its most important partner in Asean. Although the friendship prospered under Thaksin's reign, there was an uneasiness as the bilateral ties were too personalised and interwoven with his business empire and affiliated groups with vested interests. Thaksin's attitude towards the monarchy does not help. Obviously, Thailand-China relations are more resilient and adaptable to a changing environment, especially when it involves drastic changes of government. This is probably true of China's relations with other Asean countries and it augurs well with the shifting geopolitical realities of the region.

Thailand has tried hard to balance its military and economic relationship with the US with those of rising China. So far, it is has not been able to reconcile the two. As a competitor of the US, China is often more agile and seldom argues for diplomatic limitations as the US often does.

Kavi Chongkittavorn

[hammered]

There is an interesting article by Shawn Crispin on A-Times titled: Thaksin's loss, US's gain. It puts the current situation in a more global setting than we usually view it in

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/IB09Ae03.html

There's a thread in the general forum about that article:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...105821&st=0

My comment was:

Sorry to be a fly in the ointment again, but i am not that impressed with Crispin's analyses.

What he does fail to mention is that "the coup makers" are not a monolithic organisation (which is almost always the tone of his articles), but a very diverse conglomerate of military factions that found itself in one common interest though still divided by many not unimportant details, such as ideology and the usual rivalries here. And within that conglomerate are many officers, especially under the younger and upcoming officers, who are very anti American and pro China.

Thaksin and TRT wasn't monolithic the same way. Personal business interests there have bridged political and ideological borders all along.

It's a simplification to just generalise the splits here along the lines of pro-Thaksin and anti-Thaksin, and put the military in one bucket of "pro US".

His mentioning of US fears of Thaksin being because of his Chinese ethnicy ("there were concurrent concerns in Washington that the ethnically Chinese Thaksin [1] was gradually moving Thailand closer to Beijing at the United States' strategic expense") more inclined towards China fails to mention that many very powerful people of his opposition are equally ethnic Chinese, and do have very close ties to China's leadership as well, and equal business interests in China.

Thailand always was heavily influenced by China, and Chinese. Even in times of the Ayutthaya period there were many Chinese living in Thailand, and had powerful positions in business and politics. Many Thai royals have Chinese blood as well.

Things are a lot more complex here than "Pro US" and "Pro China", especially when attaching such labels to different groups in Thai politics that do not exists in such clear lines as Crispin tries to make one believe.

Things here are in an evershifting flux, occasionally groups of vested interest find common ground, but more often than not they don't. There were times when the opposition to Thaksin and Thaksin worked on issues very well together, even though they were in many fundamentals seperated. It is a fallacy to believe that this has changed with the coup. There still are many groups of vested interest, and some are more inclined towards China, and some not, and most do very pragmatic momentary decisions that switch either way depending on situation.

Especially the policies towards China are not going to be decided along the same lines the US decides them, just because some members of the junta have benefitted from US scholarships and training.

Thailand will continue to walk its own way with China while compromising with the US, and at times not.

another counter argument was posted there by slimdod, an article by the nation:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/02/12...on_30026583.php

Post-coup Thailand in the eyes of the US and China

Thailand's relations, both strategic and related to defence, with the world's most powerful countries, the US and China, are akin to a cat-and-mouse game - nothing is left to chance.

Both countries play a pivotal role in Thailand's security, as well as its political and economic wellbeing, especially in the aftermath of the September 19 coup.

The US and China have each taken a distinct approach towards Thailand. At home, they were among the first countries to congratulate Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont, but both have greatly differed in their follow-up diplomatic activities. While Washington loudly condemned the coup, China was mute under the pretext of the principle of non-interference. An immediate ban of bilateral military assistance worth US$24 million (Bt818 million) was quickly imposed a few days after the coup by the US.

Speedily and discretely, China moved in to fill the void left by the US ban with a special assistance package that included $49 million worth of military aid and training. The good news was delivered to General Sonthi Boonyaratglin during his unpublicised trip to Beijing recently. At a time like this, China's new found power and influence is being felt deeply in Thailand.

Beijing continued with visits by several senior Chinese officials, mostly in the military and security fields. State councillor Tang Jiaxuan, a former Chinese foreign minister, will be visiting Bangkok after Chinese New Year to reaffirm Beijing's support of the Council for National Security (CNS) and the government. Tang has played a significant part in the Thailand-China friendship, as he penned the comprehensive framework of cooperation with former foreign minister Surin Pitsuwan in 1998, which subsequently led to similar agreements with all Asean members. It effectively signalled a new era of closer cooperation between Thailand and China after diplomatic relations were established in 1975.

The exchanging of visits between Surayud and his Chinese counterpart, Wen Jiabao, could be finalised during Tang's trip. Beijing wanted to delay Surayud's proposed visit to China on February 27 or 28 to either May or June, with Wen's return visit set for the end of the year. Beijing's reluctance drew a shrug from the Thai side.

So far no senior US officials have visited Thailand, except three former presidents, George Bush, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. Foreign Minister Nitya Pibulsonggram was unable to secure a positive response from the US State Department on the possibility of him visiting Washington late last month. It was a big blow for him given the extensive network in the capital that he has been building for over a decade. However, the worst has yet to come.

For almost three decades, Thailand and the US have been holding combined military exercises code-named Cobra Gold, which has transformed from a bilateral exercise to what is now the largest US joint military exercise in Asia. But the coup could change all of that this year. Decisions on the exercise will be made next week in Washington. Intra-security agencies will meet and review Thai-US relations and the coup's consequences. At this juncture, preparations for the exercise have yet to be called off.

The coup's aftermath and the latest Thai decision to produce copycat licensed drugs along with subsequent negotiated compromises, not to mention the unfinished Free Trade Agreement, have already turned off some Washington decision makers. They are the same people who follow Thailand's abuse of Karen and Hmong refugees and the country's attempt to forcibly repatriate them. Thaksin Shinawatra's hiring of James Baker's law firm to lobby the Congress and the US government to advocate for his return to power will also increase anti-American sentiment over here.

After a series of bomb blasts rocked Bangkok, Thaksin wanted to improve his sagging image and counter allegations that he was behind the incident. Ironically, he was identified in US Congress documents as the "freely-elected" Thai prime minister, rather than the usual "democratically-elected" leader. Thai folks tend to look suspiciously at the US government's growing ambiguity concerning the government and Thaksin.

Washington-based Thai diplomats know that officials in the Bush administration and lawmakers aere extremely disappointed with the CNS and the government for their failure to deliver a quick return to democracy and a business-like atmosphere. Media intimidation and Internet censorship has further rubbed salt into the wounds and will now form part of the annual human rights report on Thailand to be released by the US State Department at the end of the month. It will be more critical than last year's report.

Moreover, the government also shocked international investors and business communities with its capital control measures. With 35 provinces still under martial law and uncertainties surrounding the drafting of the new charter, it is difficult for Bangkok-based US Embassy officials - the same team that handled the 1991 coup with flying colours - and those from the European Union to defend their host country. The current government's performance pales miserably compared to the similar set up under the leadership of Anand Panyarachun in 1991.

All of the above has not posed any problems for the friendship between Thailand and China. In fact, the coup was a blessing for China, as it can now quickly fine-tune relations with its most important partner in Asean. Although the friendship prospered under Thaksin's reign, there was an uneasiness as the bilateral ties were too personalised and interwoven with his business empire and affiliated groups with vested interests. Thaksin's attitude towards the monarchy does not help. Obviously, Thailand-China relations are more resilient and adaptable to a changing environment, especially when it involves drastic changes of government. This is probably true of China's relations with other Asean countries and it augurs well with the shifting geopolitical realities of the region.

Thailand has tried hard to balance its military and economic relationship with the US with those of rising China. So far, it is has not been able to reconcile the two. As a competitor of the US, China is often more agile and seldom argues for diplomatic limitations as the US often does.

Kavi Chongkittavorn

Thanks for the heads up on the other thread. Must have missed it. Guess I'll head over there. Sounds ab it like the old France and Britain thing have been replaced by China and US. Arghh balancing acts.

[Plus]

Potential anti-Chinese sentiment has little to do with the recent political developments as ethnic Chinese can be found on both sides of political divide.

Intersting how Crispin and Kavi disagree on who the junta is closer to - the US or China.

[hammered]

Potential anti-Chinese sentiment has little to do with the recent political developments as ethnic Chinese can be found on both sides of political divide.

Intersting how Crispin and Kavi disagree on who the junta is closer to - the US or China.

Maybe they are both partly right in that the Junta has good relations with the US and China. That would certainly fit with Thailands historical and traditonal diplomacy of "walking a tightrope", and the Junta are certainly traditionalists.