Hopes rest on drilling of Tham Luang Cave in Chiang Rai

[Jai Dee]

Several posts containing petty bickering have been removed from this thread.

[Odysseus123]

I am astounded by some of the posts here.

This is a complex series of caves.

 

The Thais have readily accepted outside help and both the Brits,Americans and Laotians have sent the best that they have got immediately available and to hand.

 

This is a difficult task and the logistics must be rather nightmarish-and I know about logistics.

 

Why should the Thai families-or anybody else-not pray for their safe discovery and return?

 

Integrating Thai,Laotian,British and U.S personnel on the spot into a team shows a human spirit which rises above petty bickering.May the kids and their coach be found alive and be re-united with their families.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Odysseus123

[KiwiKiwi]

1 hour ago, maximillian said:

 

Couldn't they, couldn't they...

Couldn't they have stopped the rain ?

Seeding the clouds with rainstopppers, it's possible I heard.

(Sarcasm warning on)

 

Rainstoppers...

[CGW]

4 hours ago, sanemax said:

They are drilling through rock, they are not drilling through a "flooded cave" .

Rock is quite safe to drill through .

You make it sound simple, what type of rock are they drilling through, Igneous Rocks. Basalt. Gabbro. Granite. Obsidian. Volcanic Ash, Tuff, Sedimentary Rocks, Clays, Mudstone sand Shales, Limestones, Sandstone, Metamorphic Rocks. Gneiss. Marble. Quartzite. Schist. Slate. etc

Are all these different types of rock "safe to drill through" be hard to live with if you are wrong, especially with the world looking on.

Note that PTT exploration are assisting I would guess they have geologists on site to tell them if it is indeed safe to drill.

[johnarth]

6 hours ago, sanemax said:

 

   Couldnt they have done this six days ago ?

Its been one week and now they decide to drill into the cave 

when you start at the top things are slowed right down

[yrag]

4 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

Condolences to the families.

 

 

Not over yet, i'm optimistic

[Wake Up]

Most people care or love these kids, the coach and their families and don’t know them. 

 

The people handling the rescue are professionals and working hard physically, mentally and emotionally.  It has to be a tough job knowing that your efforts may save the lives of these kids or lose them. Some of them see the families cry and have kids of their own. All I can say about the people trying to rescue the kids is thank you and everyone appreciates you and is pulling for you to save these kids.

 

And if Buddhism, Christianity or Jewish or atheists quotes or belief in the tree god helps these family deal with their pain —. then great. Right now the world is a painful stressful place for them. Peace 

[Cranky]

5 hours ago, sanemax said:

I m not an expert in drilling , its just common sense , like if you drill a hole into your wall, you just know that your house isnt going to fall down .

  Basic common sense

As you clearly illustrate;  you are not an expert in drilling.  Thanks for letting us know, most helpful.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, Cranky said:

As you clearly illustrate;  you are not an expert in drilling.  Thanks for letting us know, most helpful.

Really no need to thank me .

[poohy]

Did potholing caving in my late teens in UK always with very qualified leaders.

 

Realistically this is probably (unless they are very fortunate)  now a recovery mission  not  rescue one. 

[RandolphGB]

24 minutes ago, poohy said:

Did potholing caving in my late teens in UK always with very qualified leaders.

 

Realistically this is probably (unless they are very fortunate)  now a recovery mission  not  rescue one. 

This was my instinct when the story first appeared. A lot depends on the coach and how he responded to the first sign of flooding, and where they were in the cave. Unfortunately they could have been drowned very quickly. 

[NanLaew]

29 minutes ago, RandolphGB said:

... Unfortunately they could have been drowned very quickly. 

On the other hand...

[eeworldwide]

Just a few thoughts.

 

1: It seems that shoes and bags were found at a junction where there are also caves to the NORTH. Has ANY investigation been done to that section of the cave, or are the rescue teams just presuming the kids went further on to the main cave?

 

2: Its is very plausible for the kids to stay alive for up to 1 month without food and just water. 

 

I would say chances are medium to high that at least some of the kids are still alive, and assuming that nothing tragic like drowning has taken place.

[Fish Head Soup]

3 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Why should the Thai families-or anybody else-not pray for their safe discovery and return?

No reason, but a poster coming on here and saying that everyone needs to pray for them is just ridiculous. It is not praying that will/could save these people. It is the actions of real people on the ground that will hopefully save them, they are the ones that will do all the heavy lifting, the man who lives in the clouds and some red Fanta loving spirits can take the credit for it after real people have finished.

[ravip]

2 minutes ago, Fish Head Soup said:

No reason, but a poster coming on here and saying that everyone needs to pray for them is just ridiculous. It is not praying that will/could save these people. It is the actions of real people on the ground that will hopefully save them, they are the ones that will do all the heavy lifting, the man who lives in the clouds and some red Fanta loving spirits can take the credit for it after real people have finished.

To be frank, ALL these posts here are absolutely useless and ridiculous to the kids! Instead of ridiculing each other, if there is anyone who could give an iota of help to the kids just go fast to the caves, without wasting time here.

[greenchair]

50 minutes ago, eeworldwide said:

Just a few thoughts.

 

1: It seems that shoes and bags were found at a junction where there are also caves to the NORTH. Has ANY investigation been done to that section of the cave, or are the rescue teams just presuming the kids went further on to the main cave?

 

2: Its is very plausible for the kids to stay alive for up to 1 month without food and just water. 

 

I would say chances are medium to high that at least some of the kids are still alive, and assuming that nothing tragic like drowning has taken place.

They might survive without food, but it's very cold there and not much air. If even one is there waiting then it's all worth the trouble. But time is running out. 

[KiwiKiwi]

1 minute ago, Fish Head Soup said:

No reason, but a poster coming on here and saying that everyone needs to pray for them is just ridiculous. It is not praying that will/could save these people. It is the actions of real people on the ground that will hopefully save them, they are the ones that will do all the heavy lifting, the man who lives in the clouds and some red Fanta loving spirits can take the credit for it after real people have finished.

 

Right. Praying is evidence of a faith stance. Faith stances have no evidence whatever, and are usually the result of activity in the brain, which was reported to be common to most of us a few years ago - after which I lost touch with the topic.

 

There is no evidence whatever of a great big spirit in the sky. There is no evidence of an afterlife. There is no evidence to support the contention that any religion has any basis in fact. And yet they queue up to believe in all sorts of things- why? Because it makes us feel good about ourselves. End of.

[KiwiKiwi]

3 minutes ago, ravip said:

To be frank, ALL these posts here are absolutely useless and ridiculous to the kids! Instead of ridiculing each other, if there is anyone who could give an iota of help to the kids just go fast to the caves, without wasting time here.

There isn't likely to be anything that a member here is likely to be able to contribute, let's be honest. The major advantage of being involved in these threads is that it helps us to feel useful and worthwhile. That's all. Sorry to rain on parades, but it would be more useful to wander down the wat and buy the monks a lunch.

Edited June 29, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[KiwiKiwi]

4 minutes ago, greenchair said:

They might survive without food, but it's very cold there and not much air. If even one is there waiting then it's all worth the trouble. But time is running out. 

 

Indeed it is. If it hasn't run out already. Horrible thought I know but it's as least as likely as a bunch of footballing kids surviving for weeks or months down there.

[smo]

1 hour ago, RandolphGB said:

This was my instinct when the story first appeared. A lot depends on the coach and how he responded to the first sign of flooding, and where they were in the cave. Unfortunately they could have been drowned very quickly. 

Allow me to speak of the unspeakable: Could this be a suicide mission by the football coach? because his action appeared suicidal to me. As for taking along a dozen youngsters, this reminds me of the crazed (german or belge?) pilot slamming his commercial aircraft into the mountainside. An adult closely supervising a group of minors always makes me feel uneasy... excuse my paranoia but I come from the land of the Turpin folks (and more recently the lesboz couple driving off the cliff with their foster kids in their SUV.) I sincerely hope this is absolutely not the case. But if that was the direction of the group going in inside the grave - sorry for the freudian slip - the cave, then all rescue efforts are moot from day one.

 

Maybe a look into coach's social media could provide either reassurance that he's not a total nutjob (something in the vein of we all shall go to nirvana together) - or some pertinent clues as to which way they were heading (that one of the Brit experts was debating.) By now my only hope is that miracles sometimes occur.

 

For those of us this is foreign terrain, it has been mentioned in similar threads, but the movie "The Descent" expertly shows a frightful reality to the joy of spelunking.
. 

[Odysseus123]

4 minutes ago, smo said:

Allow me to speak of the unspeakable: Could this be a suicide mission by the football coach? because his action appeared suicidal to me. As for taking along a dozen youngsters, this reminds me of the crazed (german or belge?) pilot slamming his commercial aircraft into the mountainside. An adult closely supervising a group of minors always makes me feel uneasy... excuse my paranoia but I come from the land of the Turpin folks (and more recently the lesboz couple driving off the cliff with their foster kids in their SUV.) I sincerely hope this is absolutely not the case. But if that was the direction of the group going in inside the grave - sorry for the freudian slip - the cave, then all rescue efforts are moot from day one.

 

Maybe a look into coach's social media could provide either reassurance that he's not a total nutjob (something in the vein of we all shall go to nirvana together) - or some pertinent clues as to which way they were heading (that one of the Brit experts was debating.) By now my only hope is that miracles sometimes occur.

 

For those of us this is foreign terrain, it has been mentioned in similar threads, but the movie "The Descent" expertly shows a frightful reality to the joy of spelunking.
. 

Jesus,Mary and..Joseph.

[greenchair]

11 minutes ago, smo said:

Allow me to speak of the unspeakable: Could this be a suicide mission by the football coach? because his action appeared suicidal to me. As for taking along a dozen youngsters, this reminds me of the crazed (german or belge?) pilot slamming his commercial aircraft into the mountainside. An adult closely supervising a group of minors always makes me feel uneasy... excuse my paranoia but I come from the land of the Turpin folks (and more recently the lesboz couple driving off the cliff with their foster kids in their SUV.) I sincerely hope this is absolutely not the case. But if that was the direction of the group going in inside the grave - sorry for the freudian slip - the cave, then all rescue efforts are moot from day one.

 

Maybe a look into coach's social media could provide either reassurance that he's not a total nutjob (something in the vein of we all shall go to nirvana together) - or some pertinent clues as to which way they were heading (that one of the Brit experts was debating.) By now my only hope is that miracles sometimes occur.

 

For those of us this is foreign terrain, it has been mentioned in similar threads, but the movie "The Descent" expertly shows a frightful reality to the joy of spelunking.
. 

Or maybe he kidnapped them and sold them to the neighbouring country.

Perhaps they should investigate if he recently aquired a passport and who his foreign contacts might be. ?

[greenchair]

If they had died, wouldn't there be a strong smell? 

?

[ravip]

59 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

There isn't likely to be anything that a member here is likely to be able to contribute, let's be honest. The major advantage of being involved in these threads is that it helps us to feel useful and worthwhile. That's all. Sorry to rain on parades, but it would be more useful to wander down the wat and buy the monks a lunch.

By ridiculing and being sarcastic if one can feel useful and worthwhile. .. Please avoid buying anything for the monks. 

Although useless,  the level of the ego is high. 

Edited June 29, 2018 by ravip

[KiwiKiwi]

46 minutes ago, greenchair said:

If they had died, wouldn't there be a strong smell? 

?

Not in a passage divided by deep (full) wells.

Edited June 29, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[RandolphGB]

48 minutes ago, smo said:

Allow me to speak of the unspeakable: Could this be a suicide mission by the football coach? because his action appeared suicidal to me. As for taking along a dozen youngsters, this reminds me of the crazed (german or belge?) pilot slamming his commercial aircraft into the mountainside. An adult closely supervising a group of minors always makes me feel uneasy... excuse my paranoia but I come from the land of the Turpin folks (and more recently the lesboz couple driving off the cliff with their foster kids in their SUV.) I sincerely hope this is absolutely not the case. But if that was the direction of the group going in inside the grave - sorry for the freudian slip - the cave, then all rescue efforts are moot from day one.

 

Maybe a look into coach's social media could provide either reassurance that he's not a total nutjob (something in the vein of we all shall go to nirvana together) - or some pertinent clues as to which way they were heading (that one of the Brit experts was debating.) By now my only hope is that miracles sometimes occur.

 

For those of us this is foreign terrain, it has been mentioned in similar threads, but the movie "The Descent" expertly shows a frightful reality to the joy of spelunking.
. 

Nothing can be discounted. The first thing that Thai rescuers should have done on Saturday night / Sunday when they went missing should have been a detailed psychological profile of the coach. They could have then assessed how he would have responded to noticing the flood and if alive, how he would be handling the situation. 

[greenchair]

7 minutes ago, RandolphGB said:

Nothing can be discounted. The first thing that Thai rescuers should have done on Saturday night / Sunday when they went missing should have been a detailed psychological profile of the coach. They could have then assessed how he would have responded to noticing the flood and if alive, how he would be handling the situation. 

Hilarious. 

You should go and lead the team. ???

[RandolphGB]

1 minute ago, greenchair said:

Hilarious. 

You should go and lead the team. ???

 

Yes, hilarious. This is a rescue operation dealing with 13 people. I suppose you'd rather have them sitting around eating som tam and praying to the tree gods. 

 

The fact is that understanding the psychology and personality of the coach and therefore the group's potential movements after becoming trapped is an important part of the rescue.

 

[CGW]

9 minutes ago, RandolphGB said:

Nothing can be discounted. The first thing that Thai rescuers should have done on Saturday night / Sunday when they went missing should have been a detailed psychological profile of the coach. They could have then assessed how he would have responded to noticing the flood and if alive, how he would be handling the situation. 

Your making the assumption that the "Thai rescuers" would be capable of making an assessment and then acting on on the results? Do you think untrained individuals are capable of these actions, meanwhile they should be draining water, drilling holes, launching survival gear, looking for existing holes to enter the cave? 

[greenchair]

Just now, RandolphGB said:

 

Yes, hilarious. This is a rescue operation dealing with 13 people. I suppose you'd rather have them sitting around eating som tam and praying to the tree gods. 

 

The fact is that understanding the psychology and personality of the coach and therefore the group's potential movements after becoming trapped is an important part of the rescue.

 

I bet you're American. 

It looks to me like the Thai have done all the right things and are doing everything possible. 

People that criticise them during this time or after, really should just leave. Their work has been exhaustive, well planned and they continue to come up with new ideas everyday.