Billionaire Elon Musk Offers Help For Cave 13

[tukkytuktuk]

[smutcakes]

Just now, Kieran00001 said:

 

Why don't some people learn not to shoot their mouths off when they haven't a clue what they are talking about?

 

The sub is being made already and from existing tech, it is basically just a pipe so its not that difficult to build, so yes, that is the plan, to build it right away.

 

I am not sure what training you imagine sitting in a pipe requires or how much training a trainer of people sitting in pipes would require.

 

Considering they have chosen this idea after consulting with the crew on the ground, your 99.999% figure is just pessimistic drivel.

 

Ask yourself, do you want people to help these kids, if so then shut up and leave it to them, if not then carry on you're doing a great job.

You need to get back to reality. They are building a submarine for Thai children to use without ever beimg there, testing it, knowing the situation. If they had 3 months to study, design it etc maybe but compeltely blind. Its complete rubbish and is distracting. I canmot believe there are even people who think its viable at this stage. Nice PR though.

[kurtmartens]

33 minutes ago, canopy said:

 

No different than any other thread. Just ignore the garbage people that become miserable when they see a good thing happen.

 

What has the government done since the kids were found? Pump water day after day praying for no rains in the rainy season, get  an expert diver killed doing what they expect of the kids to do to exit the cave, move in 4 months of food, hog all the oxygen with hoards of helpers creating an almost catastrophe, and praise the monks saying the outcome is not in doubt and pray to the mountain spirits.This is simply appalling to watch. It's Elon who has emerged as the first rational person that really cares about the kids and understands they desperately need to get out of there immediately with safety being the highest priority.

 

I very much agree with you ref Musk.  But, felt the need to point out that even during a crisis the Thavisa community (or some) prove once again ... everyone knows better.

[canopy]

9 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

So now you have just decided to start makig things up [Elon consulting cave experts in Thailand]

 

I have made up nothing. Elon has been saying and doing exactly the right things all along. Here are a few things he has said:

 

There are probably many complexities that are hard to appreciate without being there in person.

 

Some good feedback from cave experts in Thailand. Iterating with them on an escape pod design that might be safe enough to try.

 

 

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, smutcakes said:

You need to get back to reality. They are building a submarine for Thai children to use without ever beimg there, testing it, knowing the situation. If they had 3 months to study, design it etc maybe but compeltely blind. Its complete rubbish and is distracting. I canmot believe there are even people who think its viable at this stage. Nice PR though.

 

Both the rocket scientists who know how to make it and the rescue crew on the ground who know what could be taken through the cave, think it is a good idea, but smutcakes recons he knows better, what a saddo, wren't you leaving?

[Hummin]

9 minutes ago, tukkytuktuk said:

This will still take 70 hours pluss minus to execute with 12 children, and operating a high tech system not proven yet, as well considering the en enviroment they have to assemble and operate the mini sub for every person, is challenging without proper testing. Risky! Anyway we will see what the days give and take.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Hummin

[canopy]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Risky!

 

Risky? So are you feeling good about strapping scuba equipment on weakened children who have never swam before and expecting them to do something that has already killed one expert diver?

 

[gamini]

Sad to see the usual Thai bashers here again.  They are mentally sick people.

[Hummin]

5 minutes ago, canopy said:

 

Risky? So are you feeling good about strapping scuba equipment on weakened children who have never swam before and expecting them to do something that has already killed one expert diver?

 

Overpressure masks, and they will not have any scuba gear strapped on to them. Every solotion is risky whatever they choose! No doubt about it. 

 

Been working offshore, and my experience is even wellproved tech fails, and when it comes to mud, water, valves and sealings, you have a huge challenge + the bottles and hoses they also have to operate on fly connected to the sub. 

 

[KKr]

19 minutes ago, tukkytuktuk said:

according to some footage posted, some of the passages are like the size of a 12 liter Air tank, imagine similar to a bookshelf, but not straight. 
If the capsule were flexible enough, this could work for the smaller kids. 
But I recommend to fill the tanks with Air or , let me add to the air confusion 555, enriched air (Nitrox) , not Oxygen. (Physics is apparently not a popular subject at school)

[lvr181]

3 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Tourism and Sports Minister Veerasak Kowsurat said that several options had been proposed to extract the 13 survivors out of the flooded cave, but he added that he would take a look.....

Jeez, another one poking his nose in!

[Kieran00001]

13 minutes ago, gamini said:

Sad to see the usual Thai bashers here again.  They are mentally sick people.

 

Yes, it really is awful, but as you say, they are ill, so perhaps we should show some tolerance for their problems.

[Kieran00001]

7 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Overpressure masks, and they will not have any scuba gear strapped on to them. Every solotion is risky whatever they choose! No doubt about it. 

 

Been working offshore, and my experience is even wellproved tech fails, and when it comes to mud, water, valves and sealings, you have a huge challenge + the bottles and hoses they also have to operate on fly connected to the sub. 

 

 

In this case, the sub being a re-purposed part of a space ship, it probably has quite good seals.

[Kieran00001]

6 minutes ago, KKr said:

according to some footage posted, some of the passages are like the size of a 12 liter Air tank, imagine similar to a bookshelf, but not straight. 
If the capsule were flexible enough, this could work for the smaller kids. 
But I recommend to fill the tanks with Air or , let me add to the air confusion 555, enriched air (Nitrox) , not Oxygen. (Physics is apparently not a popular subject at school)

 

Imagine a passage similar to a bookshelf but not straight, glad to have you on board, the situation is so much clearer to me now!

?

[KKr]

17 minutes ago, canopy said:

 

Risky? So are you feeling good about strapping scuba equipment on weakened children who have never swam before and expecting them to do something that has already killed one expert diver?

 

first of all, I do not think there is a lot of swimming to be done as the dives seem to be through narrow channels, and this could be solved by accompanying experienced divers and by using two way communications with face masks.
if accompanying diver buddy-breathes the person to be rescued, that person does not need a tank. Moreover, he does not buoyancy control.
from what I have seen so far, the dives are shallow but not very long, so that would probably be feasible.
change tanks before the next dive etc.

as for the rescuer that sadly passed away, I did not notice a cause of death report. 
Without that it is difficult to say whether this person passed away due to equipment failure, bad air, out-of-air, or due to health issues.

Let's just hope there is no bad air tanks given all the diesel fumes that I suppose are going around in the area.

[KKr]

6 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Imagine a passage similar to a bookshelf but not straight, glad to have you on board, the situation is so much clearer to me now!

?

glad to have enlightened you !
At least my attempt at prose  is read by someone who also has nothing better to do at the moment ?

Edited July 8, 2018 by KKr

[Hummin]

13 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

In this case, the sub being a re-purposed part of a space ship, it probably has quite good seals.

As i said, you will have to operate in quite harsh en enviroment for the seals open and closing. So you need good experience and rutines for everyone to do so, and I guess you have to train 20 + people operating this sub. One sub team will involve 4-5 persons (rescuers)?  But diving masks will need only two people? Im guessing now, and  I think it is the best idea so far that is realistic, but there is many fails that can happen, and it is quite resource demanding device! 

Edited July 8, 2018 by Hummin

[lvr181]

2 minutes ago, KKr said:

as for the rescuer that sadly passed away, I did not notice a cause of death report. 

Without that it is difficult to say whether this person passed away due to equipment failure, bad air, out-of-air, or due to health issues.

For "spectators" a good to know not a need to know, I would think.

[Denim]

If I were one of those facing rescue I think I would rather go with a full face mask then get in something resembling a high tech coffin.

 

With a full face mask they can see and breath normally and assist the rescuers through the tight spots.

 

In the proposed capsule they might feel even more claustrophobia and helplessness especially considering the duration of the rescue.

[KKr]

Just now, lvr181 said:

For "spectators" a good to know not a need to know, I would think.

sure, the person passed away while doing what he thought was his duty, period. Respect to him.

However, if there are lessons to be learned better to be learned fast with so many people going in and out.

[KKr]

1 minute ago, Denim said:

If I were one of those facing rescue I think I would rather go with a full face mask then get in something resembling a high tech coffin.

 

With a full face mask they can see and breath normally and assist the rescuers through the tight spots.

 

In the proposed capsule they might feel even more claustrophobia and helplessness especially considering the duration of the rescue.

and moreover, if properly equipped, the people involved wearing face masks can talk to each other.

[Hummin]

14 minutes ago, KKr said:

first of all, I do not think there is a lot of swimming to be done as the dives seem to be through narrow channels, and this could be solved by accompanying experienced divers and by using two way communications with face masks.
if accompanying diver buddy-breathes the person to be rescued, that person does not need a tank. Moreover, he does not buoyancy control.
from what I have seen so far, the dives are shallow but not very long, so that would probably be feasible.
change tanks before the next dive etc.

as for the rescuer that sadly passed away, I did not notice a cause of death report. 
Without that it is difficult to say whether this person passed away due to equipment failure, bad air, out-of-air, or due to health issues.

Let's just hope there is no bad air tanks given all the diesel fumes that I suppose are going around in the area.

Very important detail as you mention the buoyancy challenge with the sub. 

[canopy]

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

...I guess...Im guessing now...

 

And that's exactly why it's a good thing you aren't involved in this operation in any way, shape or form. I trust what the best brains from all walks of life and countries and relevant experiences coming together are saying more than anything your offshore drivel which honestly has added absolutely no substance to this thread. Expert divers from all over the world have condemned the scuba approach. It's due time some people start listening just a little bit to what the experts are saying about it. And by the way, the reported cause of death of the expert diver was asphyxiation. You never know what emergency will come up dunking those weakened kids in the water and expecting them all to behave and react a certain way.

 

 

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, canopy said:

 

And that's exactly why it's a good thing you aren't involved in this operation in any way, shape or form. I trust what the best brains from all walks of life and countries and relevant experiences coming together are saying more than anything your offshore drivel which honestly has added absolutely no substance to this thread. Expert divers from all over the world have condemned the scuba approach. It's due time some people start listening just a little bit to what the experts are saying about it. And by the way, the reported cause of death of the expert diver was asphyxiation. You never know what emergency will come up dunking those weakened kids in the water and expecting them all to behave and react a certain way.

 

 

Well it seems you know what you talking about! 

 

I have answered you polite, so at least you can try to! 

 

Anyway we will know soon how the diving will go, since it seems the operation is about to start! 

 

[KKr]

3 minutes ago, canopy said:

asphyxiation

due to out-of-air; bad air; bad health; equipment failure ?

[canopy]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

Very important detail as you mention the buoyancy challenge with the sub. 

 

Important to perhaps you only. The experts are miles ahead of you on this--as usual. I am sorry if I come off impolite. It's just tiring reading post after post of meandering and speculation. It's like someone posting "hey they are making a wheel. They should make a round shape because in my caveman artifact company experiences that would work better"

 

Just now, KKr said:

due to out-of-air; bad air; bad health; equipment failure ?

Exactly. Could be any of the above. Which makes it even scarier for the kids.

 

[lannarebirth]

1 minute ago, canopy said:

 

Important to perhaps you only. The experts are miles ahead of you on this--as usual. I am sorry if I come off impolite. It's just tiring reading post after post of meandering and speculation. It's like someone posting "hey they are making a wheel. They should make a round shape because in my caveman artifact company experiences that would work better"

 

Exactly. Could be any of the above. Which makes it even scarier for the kids.

 

Why is thread still open? Clutter.

[KKr]

5 minutes ago, canopy said:

 

11 minutes ago, KKr said:

due to out-of-air; bad air; bad health; equipment failure ?

Exactly. Could be any of the above. Which makes it even scarier for the kids.

if I were in charge, I would insist to know !
also the guys at the filling station, the person responsible for checking the equipment before the dive, will want to know.
Having knowledge one can learn and prevent , and make informed decisions.

[Hummin]

23 minutes ago, canopy said:

 

Important to perhaps you only. The experts are miles ahead of you on this--as usual. I am sorry if I come off impolite. It's just tiring reading post after post of meandering and speculation. It's like someone posting "hey they are making a wheel. They should make a round shape because in my caveman artifact company experiences that would work better"

 

Do you understand what you are talking about at all? Proven and tested equipment is going to be turned down for a new device not even tested or people have been trained to use! Non of the makers is coming on the rescue team, and do you know how many people they need to operate that sub? How many more people are you willing to put on risk? 

 

And explain how you can  can  compare sealings for a spaceship, and a underwater sub in muddy water that have to be open and  closed more than 12 times? If it was one person? Yes, and for some few yes,  but put the whole rescue operation on hold for such a new device, considering they expecting heavy rain the next few days, is stupid, and you know it. You just trying to make a fight with me, and you ar the one who do not contribute with nothing else than you read in some crappy newsfeed. 

 

I read about pockets on the sub you can put waights? Is that what you ment solved the problem? The divers have to carry extra waights as well? Or they going to use rocks? 

 

If it was a sub, you would have ballast chambers for filling water making it even more complexed to operate!  

 

 

Edited July 8, 2018 by Hummin

[newnative]

  Wish he had jumped in a little sooner but hope he can come up with something.