“Buddy dive” planned for Tham Luang rescue – news report

[todlad]

3 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

Not taking away the complexity of that event but this is a different scenario ( they knew exactly where the Chileans were from the top to their position )

They eventually had a good idea where the Chilean miners were but in spite of that their drills missed three or four times and that alone has to be allowed for. The problem there was the structure of the rocks that kept deflecting the drill.

In this case, for all the naysayers, they did not know where the children were until Monday night and since then ... a LOT has been done.

My concern here is not that this method or that method is on time, too late, risky, not risky but that someone will take a dangerous decision for reasons that are far more political than practical.

The weather here is a major factor and I do not underestimate that.

I am sure we all wish these boys well.

[CGW]

A lot has been written about how "tight" it will be getting the boys out due to the limited room, bear in mind the boys know this as they made there way in there with no issues and no "panicking" the situation is now further complicated by the presence of water obviously, I'm just hoping they are better prepared mentally than a lot are giving them credit for.

Staying positive!

[whatsupdoc]

Rule number 1 in scuba diving; keep breathing (do not hold your breath), rule number 2; don't panic.

Doing this 'buddy dive' in a cave with boys that cannot swim (not used to be in the water and certainly not under water) is extremely risky, even more so because of strong currents, narrow passage ways and muddy water (no visibility).

Even for someone with scuba experience it would be the last resort. But there might be little choice.

[Just1Voice]

I seriously doubt there is anyone on this forum who isn't hoping and praying for the best possible results.  But with that in mind, some of us are also looking at the possibilities of things not going at planned. As a military trained diver, I saw 18 - 21 year old Marines panic in an open swimming pool, and it could take 2-3 Instructors to calm them down and get them out of the water. If one of these kids panics, and start "fighting for air" or open areas of water, you have a potentially dangerous, and possibly deadly, situation on hand. I pray it doesn't happen, but the realist in me (or cynic if you will) understands there is always the possibility for that. 

 

[Jonathan Fairfield]

UPDATE

 

BREAKING: Rescuers begin evacuation of 'Tham Luang 13': 

 

 

 

 

[Kohsamida]

Update on Tham Luan cave rescue; Rescue operation has begun as of 10:10 am today.  18 elite divers have entered the cave.  Details on specifics is not clear, but the divers are now on their way.  Officials expect the rescue operation to go on through the day and the first kids will not emerge from the cave before 10am tomorrow, though the first of the kids should be in the "safe zone" by 9pm tonight

 

Our prayers should be with them.  This is considered one of the most dangerous cave rescue dives in history, but apparently there are now no other viable options except to swim them out even though most of the kids cannot even swim.  Thunderstorms expected to start in earnest by late afternoon to day so this is now a race against time. 

•  

Edited July 8, 2018 by Kohsamida

[CGW]

Good luck to all involved, 100% success rate. anticipated          ............................

[todlad]

14 minutes ago, Just1Voice said:

I seriously doubt there is anyone on this forum who isn't hoping and praying for the best possible results.  But with that in mind, some of us are also looking at the possibilities of things not going at planned. As a military trained diver, I saw 18 - 21 year old Marines panic in an open swimming pool, and it could take 2-3 Instructors to calm them down and get them out of the water. If one of these kids panics, and start "fighting for air" or open areas of water, you have a potentially dangerous, and possibly deadly, situation on hand. I pray it doesn't happen, but the realist in me (or cynic if you will) understands there is always the possibility for that. 

 

Of course you are right.

What we don't need to read is how some bar stool based expert knows how rubbish Thais are at this and that and how the area around the entrance to the cave has been cleared in anticipation of mass deaths and so that foreigners can be blamed. You know the men like this and how they feel the need to write such tripe.

[lovelomsak]

My big concern with the buddy system is panic I child panics in a situation where they are half way through. Panic could get people killed for sure.

[Kohsamida]

1 minute ago, lovelomsak said:

My big concern with the buddy system is panic I child panics in a situation where they are half way through. Panic could get people killed for sure.

Unfortunately there are now no other options but this one.

[jenny2017]

It's great that they take them out now. Let's hope that all of them involved will be invited to watch the final in Russia.

 

  It's great to see them working together. 

[Tug]

It’s started all over the news here in the USA good luck Godspeed the kids are tough so are the guys working to get them out say a prayer for everyone 

[Kohsamida]

16 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

It's great that they take them out now. Let's hope that all of them involved will be invited to watch the final in Russia.

 

  It's great to see them working together. 

As sad as this whole thing is, it's truly is an amazing rescue effort from people worldwide coming together for a common cause!  It definitely says something about the "goodness" of people everywhere when you strip away geo-political/religious ideologies.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Kohsamida

[jenny2017]

1 minute ago, Kohsamida said:

Truly is an amazing rescue effort from people worldwide coming together for a common cause!  It definitely says something about the "goodness" of people everywhere when you strip away geo-political/religious ideologies.

And it shows Thais that not all Farang are Ding Dong. There's only one world we live in, no matter what Prayuth believes. 

[BEVUP]

14 minutes ago, Kohsamida said:

Unfortunately there are now no other options but this one.

+ 1 as it would take a long time

So the best of luck to them

 

As I mentioned before they are going to have to come out in a one way mission

 

But to my surprise it wont be 2 divers (in a sense ) per kid

 

If they are attempting the mission by the way of the diagrams they will be linked together with ropes & the diver carrying the kids air tank. No doubt the most veasible way.

 

I think this way has produced a greater risk as well, in the event one panics in the middle ( it will certainly hold up some behind ). They may even have to cut the front ones lose.

 

I thought they would of done a 2 on 1 scenario at 15 minute intervals

[johnarth]

apparently, there is a tunnel from the top down, why aren't they doing something with that, a lot of time wasted, anyway best of luck to the boys 

[Laza 45]

19 minutes ago, Tug said:

It’s started all over the news here in the USA good luck Godspeed the kids are tough so are the guys working to get them out say a prayer for everyone 

In Australia s well.. https://www.sbs.com.au/news/    ...hoping everyone gets out safely  

[Kohsamida]

4 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

+ 1 as it would take a long time

So the best of luck to them

 

As I mentioned before they are going to have to come out in a one way mission

 

But to my surprise it wont be 2 divers (in a sense ) per kid

 

If they are attempting the mission by the way of the diagrams they will be linked together with ropes & the diver carrying the kids air tank. No doubt the most veasible way.

 

I think this way has produced a greater risk as well, in the event one panics in the middle ( it will certainly hold up some behind ). They may even have to cut the front ones lose.

 

I thought they would of done a 2 on 1 scenario at 15 minute intervals

Details are pretty hazy but from the news conference it sounds like they are going to try and take out the two strongest kids first and do it in stages, see how it goes with them, and then decide whether or not to proceed with the others.  It sounds like who ever is in charge is making well-informed decisions in a situation where there are no really good alternatives.  I'd sure hate to be in his shoes.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Kohsamida

[Kohsamida]

8 minutes ago, johnarth said:

apparently, there is a tunnel from the top down, why aren't they doing something with that, a lot of time wasted, anyway best of luck to the boys 

My understanding is there is not a top to down option, even though they were searching throughout the night for one.  The possibility of drilling top to down would be disastrous, not only because of the fragile limestone & possibility of cave-in, but also once the rains start later today, the chamber they are in could become flooded through the hole.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Kohsamida

[shackleton]

This rescue exercise of getting  the kids out of the cave is being lead by world renowned experts in cave rescue

They know the Pros and Cons 

This rescue plan has been well thought out has been days in the planning

before any Negative comments made lets await the outcome 

wish success to all involved 

 

[metisdead]

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[hashmodha]

I totally agree they should clear the area......none of this breaking news rubbish which is nerve recking,.... let the rescue teams do their work..... these are crucial and extremely sensitive times... anything can go wrong. . here's hoping all goes well...

[wvavin]

Never ending news everyday but nobody has been evacuated till now. These blokes really have no clues after the foreign rescuers have left.

[Media1]

Slower than Texas

[cardinalblue]

If there is individual panic, it will be very early in their dive meaning immediately....

 

And once there is panic, that's it...you can't force humans to continue when a fear is present...humans are not widgets as you will have behavioral/psych differences...

 

they seem to be taking an all or nothing approach. Why not try with best candidates. For the others, fall back on option B. Who cares if it takes 2 months or longer...

 

is it really a race against time? Based on what evidence? Are they creating an excuse in case of a bad outcome?

 

My guess is success will based on all surviving not 10 or 11....

[Elkski]

My take on things.  They have had a day training to dive.  That's more than some quack dive certifications at resorts.   They have found out which boys show signs of panic.  

The boys want to live.

The boys know the cave passages.  They will have full face masks which help with visibility and lowers claustrophobia.

I was thinking two divers for each boy. But one  pro in front makes sense.  Give the boy only one way to go.  Probably tied on a buddy line.  

I would think they will only want one team in each bottle neck section at a time.  So if they wait for each group to make it to next safe spot this will add time.   

It seems they would not send all pro divers to final area where boys are due to low O2 levels.  

I think word that some boys made it will help with boys confidence and maybe 3 Rd boy will be most at risk one.  Then if he makes it all the rest will have great confidence.   

I believe they will all make it out.  Coach will be last one  The will to survive and be free is great.  

All you guys with such negativity and stupid comments.  Just zip it.  No blame will be greater than any rescue person will out on themselves if things don't go well.  This isn't a safe Disneyland ride.  I bet all you negative posters are  Guys with no caving experience,no diving experience, no drilling or mining experience.  Just amazing how you become armchair experts and waste bandwidth. 

Edited July 8, 2018 by Elkski

[Kohsamida]

11 minutes ago, cardinalblue said:

If there is individual panic, it will be very early in their dive meaning immediately....

 

And once there is panic, that's it...you can't force humans to continue when a fear is present...humans are not widgets as you will have behavioral/psych differences...

 

they seem to be taking an all or nothing approach. Why not try with best candidates. For the others, fall back on option B. Who cares if it takes 2 months or longer...

 

is it really a race against time? Based on what evidence? Are they creating an excuse in case of a bad outcome?

 

My guess is success will based on all surviving not 10 or 11....

I think it is indeed a race for time.  Thunderstorms later today and beyond are going to pose a serious problem with water levels in the cave and very likely even in the chamber where those kids are surviving for now.  With all the rescue personnel in the caves now, oxygen levels are seriously low and the effects of hypoxia are already becoming evident in the chamber. 

 

My understanding from very sketchy coverage is that they are going to attempt to take out the two strongest kids first, do it in stages (moving from one "rest area" chamber to another, hopefully arriving at the safe zone by 9pm tonight, and making decisions abut the other kids as this initial attempt progresses.

 

There a lot of smart, well-informed experts involved in making decisions where almost every option is far from ideal.  I don't think they should be second-guessed right now by those of us on the outside looking in. 

 

Just my 2 cents, take it as you will.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Kohsamida

[GroveHillWanderer]

27 minutes ago, wvavin said:

Never ending news everyday but nobody has been evacuated till now. These blokes really have no clues after the foreign rescuers have left.

The foreign rescuers haven't left. One 70 year-old British rescuer left but other new ones were coming in at the same time. The number of foreign rescuers seems to be going up, not down.

[Cake Monster]

12 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

13 hours ago, pegman said:

Sounds like a sound plan. These people know what there doing. I think we should have high confidence in them.

Does the thai navy practice much diving in caves or pot holing?

Probably not, but the 4 new Cave divers from the UK that have just flown in, do.

[Gramps]

I have never in my life prayed so hard that I'm wrong.