Opened Bangkok Bank Account, tried to X-fer from US, trial ACH deposits failed

[Pib]

2 hours ago, jerry921 said:

Great thread. Thanks to all posters.

 

We've had information on here before about whether, if doing a wire, you want to send Baht or home currency - i.e., which end of the wire is best to have the conversion done on. I've forgotten the conclusion (sorry), can I be reminded? (In other words, you can wire $8500 as the OP did, and get whatever Baht they figure it out to, or you can wire 275,000 Baht and have whatever odd amount deducted from your sending account they come up with.

 

I think this is the same question as asking whether you want Schwab to do the conversion using their spread or whether you want the Thai bank to do the conversion using their spread. But maybe doing it one way incurs more fees than the other, as well. And in other words, I think this is asking who gives a better rate.

 

Always send your home currency....U.S. dollars in your case.  DO NOT let your Sending bank accomplish the exchange as their exchange rate will be around 2 to 6% lower than the Thai bank TT Buying Rate which Thai banks use for incoming international transfers.   

 

Send dollars....DO NOT allow your sending bank to do the exchange....let the Thai bank accomplish the exchange.

 

 

[jerry921]

50 minutes ago, Pib said:

Always send your home currency....U.S. dollars in your case.  DO NOT let your Sending bank accomplish the exchange as their exchange rate will be around 2 to 6% lower than the Thai bank TT Buying Rate which Thai banks use for incoming international transfers.   

 

Send dollars....DO NOT allow your sending bank to do the exchange....let the Thai bank accomplish the exchange.

 

 

Thanks, so my next question is if, hypothetically, schwab waves the wire fee, am I going to get a better exchange rate from a wire or using the debit card at an ATM?

 

My understanding is (please correct if wrong) that when using the Schwab Visa debit card (for example) at any ATM in Thailand you get the Visa exchange rate for that day (*). So it doesn't matter which bank's ATM you use because Schwab gives you the fee back and the exchange rate is the same, the only variable that matters is the ATM withdrawal limit if it's lower than your Schwab limit.

 

* Unless you make the stupid choice in the ATM menus and let them talk you into the ATM owner doing the conversion at a crap rate.

 

If all that's correct, how does the visa rate compare to the rate Thai banks give when you wire them funds (not counting the 200-500 baht fee)?

 

 

 

[Pib]

43 minutes ago, NancyL said:

So, I both confirmed that new ACH links between the U.S. and Bangkok Bank appear to be working AND gave a donation to a worthy organization.

 

There is no reason you can't set up your own Bangkok Bank account as the recipient in a "bill pay".  I didn't do this because I already have our accounts linked using the credit unions "interbank transfer" function.

 

Yes, any ACH link that does not use "trial deposits" such as a Bill Pay link....or if your bank allows setup of an ACH fund transfer link which does "not" use the trial deposits method should setup fine in your U.S. ibanking.  Not to imply the link will then actually work as desired with all bank/credit union's Bill Pay systems.   

 

The key here is does the setup method use "trial deposits" or not.  If it does not, the funds should continue to flow for now.  But if trial deposits are used Bangkok Bank NY is rejecting those.   And of course there needs to be enough info in the Bill Payment for the payment to occur.

 

I found out in a test I just did with my USAA Bill Payment that you can only enter "one specific number to identify the account" ....you cannot enter a routing number "and" account number.   You enter a mailing address but you can only enter one number to identify the specific account....and that really needs to be an account number because although Bangkok Bank only has one ACH routing number they have millions of individual accounts.

 

Typically adding an electronic bill payment (i..e., payment will flow electronically versus by check)  requires identification of company to receive the funds, like a credit card company, electric company, cable TV company, etc.," to be identifiable in the bank/credit union's Bill Pay system.  Your bank/credit union has such participating companies loaded in their Bill Payment system and transparently associate an ACH routing number.   Then the Bill Payer only needs to enter his specific account number with the company and the bill payment can occur electronically instead of a check being mailed.   

 

Well, in my USAA ibanking Bill Pay, if I enter say Bangkok Bank's New York address and  their branch routing number then there is no place to enter my in-Thailand Bangkok Bank account number.  And if I just enter the account number it's missing the key routing number.  Summary: can not enter both routing and account number needed to accomplish the Bill Pay "electronically".....apparently Bangkok Bank is not loaded in their Bill Payment system as a company/individual that an electronic payment can be made to....can still make the payment but it will be via check in snail mail. 

 

I have around a half dozen Bill Payment links setup in my USAA ibanking to accounts such as credit card accounts and they all setup and payout electronically since only the credit card number is need as the account number (a credit card number is unique to only you) and these companies are already loaded in the USAA Bill Payment system along with their ACH/ABA routing numbers. 

 

After setting the Bill Pay link (I initially used the NY branch routing number as you'll see in below snapshot) it immediately said this Bill Payment can only occur via paper check (2nd snapshot).  I also tried it with and without my account number vs routing number....same result...payment can only be made by check.  I don't think Bangkok Bank New York getting a paper check from me is going to work in putting money in my in-Thailand Bangkok Bank account.

 

Glad it worked in your case with your credit union's Bill Payment system, but I don't think it going to work for many folks in their bank/credit union Bill Payment system, at least not an electronic payment.    But results will vary for folks since we use different banks/credit unions for our ibanking.

 

I will also mention when we talking "International ACH Transfer" (IAT) which Bangkok Bank says they now require (or will soon require) that format is used for both funds transfer and payments, because a payment if nothing more than transfer of funds.  So, even if a Bill Payment getting through now does not mean it will in the future "when/if" Bangkok Bank starts rejecting any transfer/payment, from new or established links, that is not in the IAT format.  Time will tell.

 

Snapshot 1:  During setup...notice it only allows entry of one account number; not a routing number also....below is the Bangkok Bank NY routing number.  But I also tried it without any number and also just with my in-Thailand Bangkok Bank account number....same result.  The Bill Pay link setup no problem and immediate since trial deposits are not used in Bill Payments...but in my case the Bill Payment can only occur by check as shown in the second image below.

 

Snapshot 2: After completing above setup which occurred immediately...notice it says payment will occur by check which means the payment would not be electronically but instead Bangkok Bank NY would get a paper check mailed to them which would surely just be mailed back.  

[joealx]

2 hours ago, NancyL said:

Yeah, I was the one who did that to a Bangkok Bank account, not my own, as a test to see if the rumor was true about "new" ACH links not being accepted by Bangkok Bank.  So, I made a donation to an organization I'm involved with in Chiang Mai where I knew I'd receive feedback if they received my deposit.  

 

On a Friday evening (Thai time) I set up the organization's Bangkok Bank account as a new payee in my U.S. credit union accounts online bill pay system.  Thank god this credit union will send OTPs via both SMS and email.  Gets around the problem some expats have of U.S. banks not sending SMS OTPs to foreign phone numbers.  Anyway, after setting up the organization's account in my online bill pay, I sent them a donation.  On the following Wednesday, I received an SMS from the Chiang Mai organization that they'd received my donation in their Bangkok Bank account.  They didn't say when, so it may have hit their account on Tuesday.  Anyway, from Friday evening to Tuesday or Wednesday was acceptable in my mind.

 

So, I both confirmed that new ACH links between the U.S. and Bangkok Bank appear to be working AND gave a donation to a worthy organization.

 

There is no reason you can't set up your own Bangkok Bank account as the recipient in a "bill pay".  I didn't do this because I already have our accounts linked using the credit unions "interbank transfer" function.

 

I think that National banks in the US require trial deposits when setting up an ACH for security.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, jerry921 said:

Thanks, so my next question is if, hypothetically, schwab waves the wire fee, am I going to get a better exchange rate from a wire or using the debit card at an ATM?

 

My understanding is (please correct if wrong) that when using the Schwab Visa debit card (for example) at any ATM in Thailand you get the Visa exchange rate for that day (*). So it doesn't matter which bank's ATM you use because Schwab gives you the fee back and the exchange rate is the same, the only variable that matters is the ATM withdrawal limit if it's lower than your Schwab limit.

 

* Unless you make the stupid choice in the ATM menus and let them talk you into the ATM owner doing the conversion at a crap rate.

 

If all that's correct, how does the visa rate compare to the rate Thai banks give when you wire them funds (not counting the 200-500 baht fee)?

 

Typically, the Thai bank TT Buying Rate and Visa/Mastercard exchange rates are very close to each other.

 

Like right now at 11:23am/25 July the Visa exchange rate is 33.26348 and the Bangkok Bank TT Buying Rate 33.23....the Visa rate is actually better.   But do another comparison tomorrow...or go back in time to do past rates and you'll find the TT Buying Rate may be better.    You will find on some days the Visa/Mastercard rate is better and on other days the bank's TT Buying Rate is better.  Usually they are within about 0.25% of each other when the FX markets are stable.  But on days when the FX markets are varying a lot, the Thai bank's TT Buying rate can change numerous times but the Visa/Mastercard rate will usually stay locked for 24 hours.   As a rule of thumb the Visa/Mastecard and TT Buying Rates will be very close to each other when FX markets are stable...not varying too much.

 

 

[jerry921]

39 minutes ago, Pib said:

I found out in a test I just did with my USAA Bill Payment that you can only enter "one specific number to identify the account" ....you cannot enter a routing number "and" account number.   You enter a mailing address but you can only enter one number to identify the specific account....and that really needs to be an account number because although Bangkok Bank only has one ACH routing number they have millions of individual accounts.

Some banks have a mailing address that they publish that is for sending in deposits by snail mail. Those banks allow you to endorse a check and mail it in (if it's a check someone wrote to you, you should write your account number underneath your endorsement on the back of the check for security).

 

Typically, you can also send money to someone else's account at that same snail-mail address by writing the check to them and putting the account number in the memo field.

 

Sometimes these addresses are used when a big transaction results in a certified check sent by courier, like a house sale when you don't pay for the money to be wired to an account. It's all sort of old school, and disappearing as an option as banks switch to only accepting things electronically (like allowing you to deposit a check with a smart phone app)

 

If Bangkok Bank's NY branch has such a mailing address (big if #1) and it can be determined (big if #2 as you have to ask them or find it on their web site), then anyone should be able to use any bank's bill pay with that mailing address and the BB account number and no need to specify BB's routing number.

 

I'm really just throwing this out there for other people who are really focused on getting the BB NY option to work, I think for me wiring from Schwab direct to Thailand will work better.

 

[Pib]

Speaking of TT Buying Rates used by Thai banks for incoming international transfers I did a 4 week comparison of Bangkok Bank's TT Buying Rate (which is plus or minus a hair of TT Buying Rates used by other Thai banks) and the Transferwise exchange rate which is based on the FX mid-market rate. 

 

Now of course banks apply a market-up on their exchange rate....that is, give a slight lower exchange rate than the mid market rate for profit reasons.   

 

No different than what Visa/Mastercard, PayPal, Western Union, your home country bank, any money exchanger, etc., does in order to profit from the currency exchange transaction before they add on any fee(s).  This mark-up can also be referred to a "hidden fee" if you are setting the mid market rate as the benchmark. 

 

OK, so what was the Bangkok Bank TT Buying Rate mark-up in comparison to the mid market rate?   It appears to oscillate very closely to 0.5%. 

 

And remember, you now need to add-in any other hidden or direct fee(s) that occurs during the exchange/transfer to determine how much a transfer method is really costing you.  You must fully evaluate both "exchange rate and fees" in any exchange....too many people either just look at the exchange rate or the fees, but not both....be sure to evaluate both.

 

 

[Pib]

26 minutes ago, jerry921 said:

Some banks have a mailing address that they publish that is for sending in deposits by snail mail. Those banks allow you to endorse a check and mail it in (if it's a check someone wrote to you, you should write your account number underneath your endorsement on the back of the check for security).

 

Typically, you can also send money to someone else's account at that same snail-mail address by writing the check to them and putting the account number in the memo field.

 

Sometimes these addresses are used when a big transaction results in a certified check sent by courier, like a house sale when you don't pay for the money to be wired to an account. It's all sort of old school, and disappearing as an option as banks switch to only accepting things electronically (like allowing you to deposit a check with a smart phone app)

 

If Bangkok Bank's NY branch has such a mailing address (big if #1) and it can be determined (big if #2 as you have to ask them or find it on their web site), then anyone should be able to use any bank's bill pay with that mailing address and the BB account number and no need to specify BB's routing number.

 

I'm really just throwing this out there for other people who are really focused on getting the BB NY option to work, I think for me wiring from Schwab direct to Thailand will work better.

 

 

And "if" those "if's" worked out, I expect Bangkok Bank would apply a foreign check cashing/clearing fee (which is high and can take weeks) along with the lower cheque buying exchange rate.  However, but, if mailed to the Bangkok Bank "NY" branch the check would not be a foreign check so maybe no fee would apply.  But would the NY branch even cash such a check since they are not a retail bank for mom and pop type accounts (excluding their ACH service)....they deal with cooperate accounts...or, would they just mail the check back to your bank because they know you are just trying to get around using an ACH transfer to send money to your account in Thailand.   Lots of ifs, questions, and unknowns until a person actually tries.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Pib

[jerry921]

4 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

And "if" those "if's" worked out, I expect Bangkok Bank would apply a foreign check cashing/clearing fee (which is high and can take weeks) along with the lower cheque buying exchange rate.

Bummer. Well apparently Bill Pay worked for Nancy, who didn't say anything about those issues. YMMV I guess.

[Pib]

6 minutes ago, jerry921 said:

Bummer. Well apparently Bill Pay worked for Nancy, who didn't say anything about those issues. YMMV I guess.

Well, her bill payment apparently went electronically; not by paper check where the check cashing fee/lower exchange rate would apply. 

 

And NancyL would have to clarify exactly how much of the donation she sent actually ended up being posted.  Like was TT Buying Rate used...was the 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) fee applied....was the NY branch fee applied?  Or maybe with the account being probably coded as a charity, maybe Bangkok Bank does not apply any fees like for a personal account?   

 

Sometimes you just have try sending money a certain way...and then afterwards do the math to see how much went into banksters pockets along the way.

[Pib]

I would just like to say again like I did in an earlier post I've only signed-up with Transferwise in order to have big dollar transfer Plan B that does not totally rely on ACH/SWIFT/Int'l Wire in case the Bangkok Bank "ibanking" ACH transfer method goes away.   And the handwriting does seem to be on the wall since Bangkok Bank is rejecting all new ibanking transfer links that use the trial deposit setup method as that setup method is the only one that involves them in the setup/validation process. 

 

I figure it's their way of taking an initial step to get people talking the transfer link rejects on social media....start closing the door on "ibanking" ACH transfers....give people time to develop a Plan B.  Then Bangkok Bank closes the door on even established ibanking transfers link unless they use the IAT format.  And I do not expect U.S. govt benefits payments like social security, military retirement, etc.,  to be affected as they are handled/transmitted differently in comparison to ibanking transfers. 

 

Since I have multiple no foreign transaction fee debit cards that reimburse ATM fees I have no need to do electronic transfers using my U.S. banks or Transferwise for my day-to-day living expenses in Thailand. 

 

Ever since I got my no fee debit cards years ago I have done very few ACH transfers...only a couple to ensure the transfer links still worked as you never know if a link still works until you test it 100%.  And my Transferwise transfers over the last month have really been tests also....to find out personally how good (or not) Transferwise works...do the 100% test.

 

I'm pretty "tested-out" now...have satisfied my curiosity....know I now have a good Plan B in-place in case the handwriting on the wall comes true.  

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 hours ago, NancyL said:

Yeah, I was the one who did that to a Bangkok Bank account, not my own, as a test to see if the rumor was true about "new" ACH links not being accepted by Bangkok Bank.  So, I made a donation to an organization I'm involved with in Chiang Mai where I knew I'd receive feedback if they received my deposit.  

 

On a Friday evening (Thai time) I set up the organization's Bangkok Bank account as a new payee in my U.S. credit union accounts online bill pay system.  Thank god this credit union will send OTPs via both SMS and email.  Gets around the problem some expats have of U.S. banks not sending SMS OTPs to foreign phone numbers.  Anyway, after setting up the organization's account in my online bill pay, I sent them a donation.  On the following Wednesday, I received an SMS from the Chiang Mai organization that they'd received my donation in their Bangkok Bank account.  They didn't say when, so it may have hit their account on Tuesday.  Anyway, from Friday evening to Tuesday or Wednesday was acceptable in my mind.

 

So, I both confirmed that new ACH links between the U.S. and Bangkok Bank appear to be working AND gave a donation to a worthy organization.

 

There is no reason you can't set up your own Bangkok Bank account as the recipient in a "bill pay".  I didn't do this because I already have our accounts linked using the credit unions "interbank transfer" function.

 

 

Nancy, there's no reason particularly that your bill payment route to BKK Bank thru BKK Bank NY would not work now--assuming that system allowed you to correctly identify the recipient's ultimate account.  As has been mentioned numerous times before here, existing ACH links to BKK Bank are still working for now and able to make transfers -- although that's due to cease later this year.

 

What's NOT working now are NEW attempted trial deposit links to BKKB NY for purposes of create new ACH transfers.  Since your bill payment approach doesn't rely on trial deposits, and it's a good idea for avoiding the trial deposits blockade, it's going to be OK for now using BKKB's NY routing number (did you???) and your recipient's BKKB account number.

 

However, if BKKB follows thru later this year with their plan to discontinue their current domestic ACH system via their New York branch, it's not clear to me whether your bill payment method via the NY branch is going to survive that change. My guess is it will not. But I guess that depends on just what BKKB and their NY branch end up doing when all the dust settles.

 

One of the challenges with U.S. bill pay, I think, is it's probably not typically intended to process payments to international recipients. And as Pib encountered, depending on the financial institution, their setup and how the recipient info is entered, it CAN end up in the bank wanting to send a paper check.  And I'd agree with Pib -- you definitely DO NOT want your bank sending a paper check to BKKB NY.

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just a bit more on the bill pay approach, suggesting that YMMV on this.

 

I just went into Schwab and their bank-based bill pay system, and found that when you want to send money to a PERSON via that route, there's NO field at all for entering an ACH number or even an account number -- only name, address, phone, email etc.  So that certainly would appear to be a NO-go for BKKB purposes. And not surprisingly, there's not even any ability to list a non-U.S./foreign country address.

 

 

But in Nancy's case, perhaps of note, her trial example wasn't sending to a person but instead an organization (charity), which isn't what most people here would be attempting to do.

 

So, when I backed out of the "send to person" field and instead went to Schwab Bank's "send to a company" field, then I got all the same kind of contact info PLUS a one item field for entering an account number, and nothing for an ACH number. And once again, no ability to enter a non-U.S./foreign country address. Now, whether that's what Nancy did in her CU, she'll have to advise. But again, that approach is going to be irrelevant for most here who want to send to an individual, not a company.

 

 

 

So I think the bottom line here is:

 

--Anyone with an existing ACH link to BKKB NY should and can continue using it for the time being until further notice.

 

--Anyone who does NOT have a current ACH link to BKKB should explore other alternatives, including a solution like Transferwise, using a no fee/fee reimbursing U.S. debit card, or at least checking their home bank/CU's bill pay system to see if that system will support payments to non-U.S. located individuals through electronic, not paper check, payment means.

 

[NancyL]

The screens that everyone is showing is what my credit union has for when a paper check is going to be mailed.  They have a different screen to set up an account that is to be paid via electronic funds transfer.  No need to input an address and they specifically ask for both the bank account number and routing number for the payee so they can execute an electronic funds transfer.  I used the spaces for payee first name and last name to input the name of the organization so it would match the account name and input my own U.S. MagicJack phone number for the credit union to call in case there were questions because I figured they wouldn't accept an overseas phone number.

 

Speaking from experience of friends, Bangkok Bank NYC absolutely will not accept any paper checks sent to them via a bill pay system, even with the account number of one of their customers listed as the "account number".  They will return it to the issuing bank/credit union.

 

To answer the question about what exchange rate I received it is the standard Bangkok Bank exchange rate, with their usual

fee. http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/TransferingFunds/TransferringIntoThailand/ReceivingFundsfromUSA/Pages/ReceivingFundsfromUSA.aspx

 

Here is the screen from my credit union to input a new payee for ACH transfer for their bill pay system.

 

 

[Pib]

OK, if you used above screen to send the money to the charity, you did a Funds Transfer and not a Bill Payment.  And apparently your credit union "does not" use trial deposits to verify the account you are sending to.   So, the transfer you did will still go through since it's being treated just like an established funds transfer link.  

 

But for folks who have ibanking that only allows a funds transfer link to be setup using trial deposits they can no longer get the link validated because Bangkok Bank NY rejects the trial deposits which means your bank will not approve final setup of the transfer link.   

[joealx]

Most, if not all, National banks in the US require the  trial deposits for security  purposes before an ACH can be  setup.

[NancyL]

Pib, it's not described as a "Funds Transfer" in my credit union's online system.  First you click on a tab labeled "Bill Pay", then your next option could be one labeled "transfers", but that only works for transfers to accounts that are in my or my husband's name.  That's how I transfer to our personal Bangkok Bank accounts.  Since I was transferring money to an account not the name of either Hubby or me, I had to use the "pay a person" option, which is the same method used for electronic bill payment.  That Thai charity now shows up in my "payee" list, just like other people or businesses we pay online in the U.S. from time-to-time.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, NancyL said:

The screens that everyone is showing is what my credit union has for when a paper check is going to be mailed.  They have a different screen to set up an account that is to be paid via electronic funds transfer.  No need to input an address and they specifically ask for both the bank account number and routing number for the payee so they can execute an electronic funds transfer.

 

 

Hi Nancy... Thanks for clarifying just how you made the payment. I think that helps explain things some.

 

So a couple thoughts:

 

1. Based on the method you're using, I'd say it's almost certain that if and when BKKB shuts down their current domestic ACH transfers system via the NY branch, as they've said they're going to do, that the system you've worked out will cease to function. Because, it's relying on a transfer thru the NY branch using their ABA number, and that's the part BKKB is planning to shut down.

 

2. To my surprise, when I started logging into my various checking accounts, and going into their bill pay settings (which I've almost never had any reason to do), I found pretty much the same setup as you posted above.  If I choose to send money to an individual, I get the same three options in several of my checking accounts:

1. -- I enter the recipients ABA routing and account number, and my bank does an electronic transfer.

2. -- I don't have the recipient's ABA routing and account number, so my bank sends them an email that allows the recipient to securely enter that info and then receive the funds.

3. -- I simply choose to have my bank send the recipient a paper check in the postal mail.

 

 

Then if I choose Direct Deposit Electronic where I fill in the recipients routing and account numbers, I get the following screens very much like yours:

 

 

3. Now, in options No. 1 and 2 above, there's no need or place to enter a mailing address or physical location of the recipient. However, since two of those accounts I'd never gone into their bill pay before, in each of those upon setup, I received a terms and conditions document to read and accept, and in both of those, it specified that the payee MUST be in the United States. So to do otherwise is playing a bit loosey goosey. So I'm not sure I'd want to risk going against that with a large sum electronic transfer.

 

 

So, all in all, I see the Bill Pay method as a possible short-term workaround for the current trial deposits block, but in the longer term, still a method that's likely to die when BKKB's domestic ACH system is shut down.

 

And of course, there's the potential issue about violating one's financial institution's rules against using the bill payment system to make a payment to someone outside the U.S. -- which would make me a bit nervous in today's era of banking regulation and international money movement monitoring.

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Jingthing]

Mostly out of curiosity, as it's been reported that BB is already blocking any NEW attempts to do our favorite too-good-to-be-true ACH creating links to BB NY, do you think they are also blocking any NEW attempts to do direct deposit to BB using the same scheme for social security checks already? (Where the link is set up by social security itself.) I also wonder if people that have been using that setup for years with SS will have that cut off. Suppose such people don't have any U.S. account they can send it to. Then what? 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Mostly out of curiosity, as it's been reported that BB is already blocking any NEW attempts to do our favorite too-good-to-be-true ACH creating links to BB NY, do you think they are also blocking any NEW attempts to do direct deposit to BB using the same scheme for social security checks already? (Where the link is set up by social security itself.) I also wonder if people that have been using that setup for years with SS will have that cut off. Suppose such people don't have any U.S. account they can send it to. Then what? 

 

There's absolutely no indication that anything about the current Social Security direct deposit system has been affected thus far, or will be affected in the future, by the changes occurring at BKKB NY.

 

My contact there specifically advised that the current SS DD system will continue unaffected.

 

[Jingthing]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

There's absolutely no indication that anything about the current Social Security direct deposit system has been affected thus far, or will be affected in the future, by the changes occurring at BKKB NY.

 

My contact there specifically advised that the current SS DD system will continue unaffected.

 

Thanks.

But what about NEW setups with SS?

It seems logical that if they're stopping new setups in general, they might also block NEW setups for SS?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Thanks.

But what about NEW setups with SS?

It seems logical that if they're stopping new setups in general, they might also block NEW setups for SS?

 

Nope..

 

The federal government trusts the federal government (SSA) to send money to Thailand, and they know pretty much with certainty whom they're sending it to.

 

But you and me sending money, that's an entirely different story. 

 

NOTHING about the SSDD system is supposed to be affected.

[Jingthing]

So you think the ACH for private people is definitely toast for good after they cut off people with existing links? I always felt it was too good to last but still it's a shame if it's gone for good. 

 

I reckon there are probably many expats that have been relying on that BB ACH as their only method to transfer money to Thailand. 

 

Most U.S. banks don't do online SWIFT. 

Edited July 25, 2018 by Jingthing

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

So you think the ACH for private people is definitely toast for good after they cut off people with existing links? I always felt it was too good to last but still it's a shame if it's gone for good. 

 

I reckon there are probably many expats that have been relying on that BB ACH as their only method to transfer money to Thailand. 

 

Most U.S. banks don't do online SWIFT. 

 

From my contact at BKKB NY, they're definitely trying to find SOME replacement solution, but as of about two weeks ago, didn't have any clear idea of what that might be. Their original plan for a replacement method proved infeasible after they discovered the method they were pursuing wasn't one that was/is available to the typical U.S. consumer bank account holder. So then it was back to the drawing board.

 

I think the reason they haven't actually cut off the ACH transfers yet is, understandably, they were trying to come up with a reasonably seamless transition where the method would change but the capability would remain.  What we don't know, at this point, is how much flexibility they have to extend the cutoff date while they continue to seek an alternative.

 

Of course, BKK Bank isn't saying much about this at all officially, except for the changes they've made to their NY Branch ACH transfers web page and the email Pib received from them.  Coming up on two weeks ago now, I sent both BKKB in TH and the New York branch emails asking them re the details my contact had provided me on the status of things, and thus far, have not received any response from either entity.

Edited July 25, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[NancyL]

8 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Hi Nancy... Thanks for clarifying just how you made the payment. I think that helps explain things some.

 

So a couple thoughts:

 

1. Based on the method you're using, I'd say it's almost certain that if and when BKKB shuts down their current domestic ACH transfers system via the NY branch, as they've said they're going to do, that the system you've worked out will cease to function. Because, it's relying on a transfer thru the NY branch using their ABA number, and that's the part BKKB is planning to shut down.

 

2. To my surprise, when I started logging into my various checking accounts, and going into their bill pay settings (which I've almost never had any reason to do), I found pretty much the same setup as you posted above.  If I choose to send money to an individual, I get the same three options in several of my checking accounts:

1. -- I enter the recipients ABA routing and account number, and my bank does an electronic transfer.

2. -- I don't have the recipient's ABA routing and account number, so my bank sends them an email that allows the recipient to securely enter that info and then receive the funds.

3. -- I simply choose to have my bank send the recipient a paper check in the postal mail.

 

 

Then if I choose Direct Deposit Electronic where I fill in the recipients routing and account numbers, I get the following screens very much like yours:

 

 

3. Now, in options No. 1 and 2 above, there's no need or place to enter a mailing address or physical location of the recipient. However, since two of those accounts I'd never gone into their bill pay before, in each of those upon setup, I received a terms and conditions document to read and accept, and in both of those, it specified that the payee MUST be in the United States. So to do otherwise is playing a bit loosey goosey. So I'm not sure I'd want to risk going against that with a large sum electronic transfer.

 

 

So, all in all, I see the Bill Pay method as a possible short-term workaround for the current trial deposits block, but in the longer term, still a method that's likely to die when BKKB's domestic ACH system is shut down.

 

And of course, there's the potential issue about violating one's financial institution's rules against using the bill payment system to make a payment to someone outside the U.S. -- which would make me a bit nervous in today's era of banking regulation and international money movement monitoring.

 

When I go to the Bill Pay tab of my credit union's website I'm taken to a module that is clearly supplied by a third party provider.  Presumably that same provider services other banks and credit unions.  Your screens look almost identical to the ones on my credit union's website.

 

I'm going to take the risk of "violating" any rules, if any, the credit union may have about not using their ACH system to payees outside the U.S.  By definition, the ACH system is only for transactions in the U.S.  The money is being sent to Bangkok Bank NYC.  Presumably what they mean is that they won't use the "mailing a check" option of the bill pay system to physically send a check outside the U.S.

 

Living here in Thailand, I've found the little credit union we joined over forty years ago to be absolutely brilliant.  For years after leaving the Fortune 100 company that the credit union serves, we kept the accounts dormant, but at least we kept them open.  As we were getting ready to relocate to Thailand, our U.S. financial adviser suggested we revive our relationship with that credit union and get a credit card from them because, while they are fairly small, they are very used to dealing with the needs of company executives and retirees traveling and living overseas.  

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

46 minutes ago, NancyL said:

I'm going to take the risk of "violating" any rules, if any, the credit union may have about not using their ACH system to payees outside the U.S.  By definition, the ACH system is only for transactions in the U.S.  The money is being sent to Bangkok Bank NYC.  Presumably what they mean is that they won't use the "mailing a check" option of the bill pay system to physically send a check outside the U.S.

 

 

I think what you're saying above here is an overly liberal interpretation of what the terms and conditions actually say. The wording is a bit different from bank to bank, at least among my accounts. But they're all pretty specific is saying the payee (not the intermediary bank) must be in the U.S.  And clearly in the kind of xfer we're talking about, the payee is NOT in the United States.

 

My purpose in sharing that detail was to encourage anyone planning to attempt an international bill pay transfer to at least check the pertinent terms and conditions for their particular financial institution, and then decide if they want to take the risk of violating those terms -- assuming they have the same kind of U.S. payee only language as I've shared above.

 

On the subject of those terms, if I was just attempting a one-time transfer of a few bucks on a test basis as you did, I wouldn't get overly excited about it. But if I was planning to use that method to fund my life in Thailand and that meant doing multi thousand dollar transfers on a recurring basis, I'd have serious second thoughts. And in fact, at least for me, I wouldn't do it assuming my bank/CU had clear terms specifying that payees must be in the U.S. only.

 

BTW, here's the terms language of the other bank among the several I mentioned in my prior post:

 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JohnOFphon]

Anyone think it could be because Bangkok Bank is getting cozy with China?

Their debit card no longer has the Visa..or was it MasterCard..I forget.

Now they're using Union Pay.. a Chinese operation.

 

[Jingthing]

7 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

From my contact at BKKB NY, they're definitely trying to find SOME replacement solution, but as of about two weeks ago, didn't have any clear idea of what that might be. Their original plan for a replacement method proved infeasible after they discovered the method they were pursuing wasn't one that was/is available to the typical U.S. consumer bank account holder. So then it was back to the drawing board.

 

I think the reason they haven't actually cut off the ACH transfers yet is, understandably, they were trying to come up with a reasonably seamless transition where the method would change but the capability would remain.  What we don't know, at this point, is how much flexibility they have to extend the cutoff date while they continue to seek an alternative.

 

Of course, BKK Bank isn't saying much about this at all officially, except for the changes they've made to their NY Branch ACH transfers web page and the email Pib received from them.  Coming up on two weeks ago now, I sent both BKKB in TH and the New York branch emails asking them re the details my contact had provided me on the status of things, and thus far, have not received any response from either entity.

So for now until a cut off date, people with EXISTING links that they've used before can expect them to still work to do ACH to BB NY? 

[Pib]

5 minutes ago, JohnOFphon said:

Anyone think it could be because Bangkok Bank is getting cozy with China?

Their debit card no longer has the Visa..or was it MasterCard..I forget.

Now they're using Union Pay.. a Chinese operation.

 

Nope, just governments tightening-up on the flow of funds in and out of their countries for anti-terror/anti-money laundering compliance.

[Pib]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

So for now until a cut off date, people with EXISTING links that they've used before can expect them to still work to do ACH to BB NY? 

Yes.   It's just trial deposits that are being rejected now. 

 

Transfers from established ibanking transfer/payment links still work fine.   And you can still set up a new ibanking transfer link as long it does not use the trial deposits method for validation...and that new link you get setup will work fine to flow transfers/payments.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Pib