4 hours ago, webfact said:

By law we cannot order boat operators not to leave port; government agencies can only warn the public about bad weather conditions each day,

This don't need a comment...

 

 

Lets not forget the safety culture in China, they more than likely see a lot more safety implemented here than back home (which is kind of a scary thought)
Numerous incidents and reports from China will back that up......

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Bottom line is Safety costs a lot of money.

and we all know what wins hands down in Thailand.

Next  

In a country where what relatively little legal checks and balances that exist are not enforced, what does one expect?

 

If the country wasn't corrupt, it wouldn't be a magnet for those questionable individuals, and this type of thing wouldn't happen.

Let's all hope they don't come up with the idea to put the guy, unsuccessfully supervising road safety measures, in charge for this charade.  

If you fall down a hole on the pavement or get electrocuted by hanging wires etc its your fault you should have seen it same as stepping on a boat here expect to drown.

From Democratic governance down to the attitude of it population ... a failed state ... or I guess it’s not a state


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43 minutes ago, Anythingleft? said:

Lets not forget the safety culture in China, they more than likely see a lot more safety implemented here than back home (which is kind of a scary thought)
Numerous incidents and reports from China will back that up......

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I beg to differ based on my limited experience traveling on buses. They REQUIRE passengers to wear seat belts and buses are randomly stopped and checked by police who issue fines. They were very strict about this. Additionally, there is a time limit for how long one driver can go without a break and this too was strictly enforced. For a 10 hour trip we had two drivers, one resting while the other drove. Here in Thailand one guy would do the whole trip (with Red Bull and Meth to keep him going).

China has a bad history of travel mishaps, but they are serious about enforcing the rules once they are in place. Thailand seriously lacks in the enforcement department.

Oh and in the Philippines, not known as a bastion of safety, boats are checked for overloading by the Coast Guard prior to leaving the dock. Once again a poor history of mishaps now being reshaped by strict enforcement.

4 hours ago, pattayadgw said:

You have to have safety standards before you can improve them.  While Marine water safety standards differ around the world it would not be difficult to choose a few countries and have a look at their standards for companies operating marine tours etc. and then APPLY them to vessels here in LOS.... when i say APPLY them i mean apply them with hefty fines and or jail sentences if NOT applied.

SOLAS (Safety Of Life At Sea) covers most if not all of the safety issues applicable to the sea

6 hours ago, Thian said:

What a load of bs is spouted by the academic...what will a travelinsurance change ?? Yes it will cost thailand less but they better focus on the lousy safety on Thai boats/buses/minivan's. Just use the Western safety-systems and rules, it's all tested and much safer.

 

I hope Elon Musk also noticed the dangerous situations in Thailand and mentions them, just like Bill Gates did with the electric cables.

Regulatory enforcement in each and every aspect of Tourism, implementation and licensing of each and every business operating in Tourism, unregistered ones closed down,data base to monitor all involved....This is how Spain began its Tourism infancy, followed by Italy, France,UK,..

I gleaned this from another article. Seemed to hit a spot with me !

 

Also Thailand typically does not have a 'blame culture', where a culprit must be found for any misadventure. There is a more fatalistic acceptance of things going wrong, less public clamour for accountability.

Safety measures for Thais 'in urgent need of upgrade'.

It does seem those who are paid big wonga to control stuff don't control...I wonder what these folk actually do....Look at road policing for example to solve carnage...

Better safety for tourists ?.....from the ladyboys in Pattaya or the taxi drivers refusing the meter at BKK airport ?

I beg to differ based on my limited experience traveling on buses. They REQUIRE passengers to wear seat belts and buses are randomly stopped and checked by police who issue fines. They were very strict about this. Additionally, there is a time limit for how long one driver can go without a break and this too was strictly enforced. For a 10 hour trip we had two drivers, one resting while the other drove. Here in Thailand one guy would do the whole trip (with Red Bull and Meth to keep him going).
China has a bad history of travel mishaps, but they are serious about enforcing the rules once they are in place. Thailand seriously lacks in the enforcement department.
Oh and in the Philippines, not known as a bastion of safety, boats are checked for overloading by the Coast Guard prior to leaving the dock. Once again a poor history of mishaps now being reshaped by strict enforcement.

My reference was the safety culture in China as a whole which is endemic through the country, just Friday another chemical plant explosion through lack of safety implementation and follow through....

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Rules first, adherence next then strict enforcement with penalties to reflect same ! Good luck with that....

wasted 5  bleeding minutes reading that crap.

We should just take over this country once and for all... They are just too Buffalo to run it!!

21 minutes ago, kannot said:

wasted 5  bleeding minutes reading that crap.

You should learn to speed read in Thailand.

If you see the word safety, go straight to the last sentence of the article.

jobs a good'n in 15 seconds. 

 

PS, you would have  4 minutes 45 seconds left to quaff a cold Chang. Win Win.

8 hours ago, stanleycoin said:

Safety First.

For some reason,  Thailand just doesn't spring to mind.

I Wonder why. 

Money First...

9 hours ago, webfact said:

However, it is not clear that tour operators who own or hire tour boats follow such safety procedures, Thaweesak said.

Oh, I think it's very clear. Just as clear as the chasm between safety and Thai culture.

There is at least some good in the article in that it openly admits that something needs to be done. That alone is the first step on the road to recovery, much like an alcoholic or addict must do in taking the first step to sobriety. Sadly the rest is just unresearched opinion from someone who has climbed the academic ladder receiving praise and awards however has not gathered any real world intelligence along the way. Much like second rate doctor who can identify and treat symtoms without even getting close to the root cause of the malaise.

 

The comparison to the aviation industry is laughable and shows no real understanding. By its international nature Aviation is regulated to international standards set by ICAO, EASA and IATA. Thailand found this out the hard way a few years ago receiving severe sanction from international bodies thus forcing a cultural shift within Aviation Safety oversight in Thailand. This still has a long way to go however it was a start that was precipitated by world bodies telling the Thai authorities to up their game or risk severe restrictions on international flights.

 

The domestic travel and transport industry is entirely internally regulated which means that no meaningful and internationally proven standards are set or implemented. The words “best practice” are  replaced with TIT. Until this attitude changes or is forced to change incidents like the Phuket boat tragedy and the appalling carnage on the roads will continue. Academics can hypothesize as much as they want but nothing will change.

 

We all love Thailand for our own reasons but the feeling of personal safety is not one of them. As foreigners and intelligent adults we have a responsibility to ourselves to assess the risks and accept the consequences. Nothing we do or say will change anything and there is no point in expecting the authorities to have our backs. After all TIT.

9 hours ago, stanleycoin said:

Safety First.

For some reason,  Thailand just doesn't spring to mind.

I Wonder why. 

Do brown envelopes not spring to mind?

How about upgrading safety for everyone, everywhere.

Period. 

1 minute ago, Small Joke said:

How about upgrading safety for everyone, everywhere.

Period. 

I reckon another 100 years may do it...

need of upgrade???...a bunch of bs fodder for the media!...Thailand doesn't know how to implement what they already have in place...how can they possibly upgrade?

Wife has a small but successful business  that involves a lot of sharp knife food prepping under time constraints.  

She's already lost time at ER for cuts that thankfully weren't business busting.

I bought her some food prep Kevlar gloves. Just this morning I urged her to take them to work, again,  they're still here at home, again. 

This is the national psyche.

Mai bpen rai. 

The bottom line here is, those that reside here, know too well the pitfalls in any sort of transportation , not getting on a bus if the driver smells of drink. making sure the Taxi driver uses the meter, if not stop and get out.

Boats are another place, where after a couple opf weeks a few years ago looking at boats in Pattaya and Phuket, I decided that the maintenance and general look of the boat was not up my standard ( RN Training ) therefore I would not even get on one at all, rather miss out on the delights, but in Vietnam I did and was happy to do so. 

 

Tourists however do not have the luxury of looking and checking , they go on faith and the outcome has been many avoidable deaths . I sincerely hop[e the Chinese Govt will not stand idly b y and that the Thai Government feels their anger. Not that for one minute do I expect any change  , I do not expect any acceptance of guilt apart from the Boat captain  who will be made a scapegoat, everyone else from Enforcers to Govt ministers will carry on as normal . THAT IS THE PROBLEM, no one single Govt minister will say the truth . Another case of Thai Culture and Loss of face being carefully stage managed to allay fears and keep the ATMs visiting 

First I would like to say that the law needs to be changed , so the ship or boat owners , captains and skippers can legally not be given permission or allowed to leave a harbour or port when sea and wind conditions are too severe .  In many countries harbours have a harbour master , or ports a port captain , to whom the master of a vessel must report before leaving , who would advise not to leave if conditions are too rough .  They also have legal power to order a vessel not to leave .  In the case of the Phoenix it was a vessel not designed to ride rough seas and big waves , its owners and skipper should have known it could ride big seas especially with a lot of people on board .  I read that this party of Chinese tourists were going a scuba diving or snorkeling trip .  Anybody with any sense should know that people ONLY go scuba diving in calm weather and sea  . 

14 hours ago, Anythingleft? said:

The whole issue relates to money.
Any new or additional measures of safety and the following regulation and monitoring of said measures will cost money. The rub being that the vendor complains about absorbing the cost as in less profit, or the consumer gets it. If the consumer gets it then "cheap " Thailand becomes no more and other countries become more attractive.
As countries become more 1st world in all aspects such as road and travel safety so do the costs associated, no tourist wants that, if they did they would not be here they would be in any number of countries that already implement these, but at a much higher cost.
Tourists want cheap, cheap is available due to lack of regulation and enforcement of said regulation.
All the topics running make me laugh a little from the constant rantings that improvement is a must, I would say that pretty much everybody came to this country initially because it was cheap and the rules and regulations relaxed.
Enforcing the laws and regulations already in place is another point entirely and should IMO be carried out, adding new? Turns the whole tourist industry on its head and there would be big repercussions from that.
The only things that makes Thailand attractive are cheapness and easy visa/entry access, change either and you lose.......



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I'm not sure. Value should be the focus, not price. There is plenty of room for significant improvement in Thailand's infrastructure while being able to keep the value high despite the additional cost it will require. 

 

Cost and Value is not a perfectly linear relationship. You can buy an expensive sh1tty value Italian car or you can buy a great quality Japanese one for far less money and vastly better value (excluding intrinsic value of having a "fancy" Italian suoercar).