U.S. accuses Russian spies of 2016 election hacking, summit looms

[riclag]

30 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Since you agree the Russian attack on the 2017 has destroyed democracy in the US, do you also agree the Mueller investigation must proceed to uncover and prosecute all those who took part in that attack or aided the Russians?

I didn't agree to that!   the  2017 Russian attack has destroyed democracy.  Nice Try though

 

"I think that was appropriate , considering how   that administration intentional neglect on this Russian Meddling("Stand Down")  destroyed  my countries democracy, "Complicit" 

Edited July 16, 2018 by riclag

[bristolboy]

9 minutes ago, riclag said:

I didn't agree to that!   the  2017 Russian attack has destroyed democracy.  Nice Try though

 

"I think that was appropriate , considering how   that administration intentional neglect on this Russian Meddling("Stand Down")  destroyed  my countries democracy, "Complicit" 

Clearly you are in serious disagreement with yourself. Maybe you better settle this with yourself before commenting on the matter further.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

47 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Unfortunately the only constitutional means to remove an unlawfully and illegally elected President is through impeachment, and the Republicans have made it very clear they will put party and power ahead of country.

 

Or, boot the criminal out at the next presidential election...

 

Or, sooner, change the makeup of Congress at the upcoming midterm election to have a Congress that will actually consider any alleged/proved official wrongdoing and carry out their Constitutional duties instead of ignoring them.

 

[riclag]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

Clearly you are in serious disagreement with yourself. Maybe you better settle this with yourself before commenting on the matter further.

I have no clue what your talking about

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, riclag said:

I have no clue what your talking about

Did you say write this?

"I think that was appropriate , considering how   that administration intentional neglect on this Russian Meddling("Stand Down")  destroyed  my countries democracy, "Complicit" 

[Ramen087]

48 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Campaign finance violations are illegal.  I explained this to you.

There is no way to determine how much Russians influenced the election.  Stop trying to rewrite history.

 The Russian attempt to determine the outcome of the 2016 presidential election failed.  Sine the electoral college has existed it has been possible for a candidate to win the office lawfully and legally despite having fewer popular votes. Campaign finance law has done nothing to stop increased spending, and it's complexity virtually rules out indictment, never mind conviction.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2016-presidential-campaign-fundraising/ 

 

Looking at the link above, you can see Mr. Trump was running a more grass roots campaign (given the high cost of running for President), having about five hundred million less than his counterpart. He easily could have dipped into his own pocket, but it wasn't necessary. Rumors of campaign crimes that would cause a threat to the office are ludicrous, and snack of desperation.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Ramen087

[heybruce]

Just now, Ramen087 said:

 The Russian attempt to determine the outcome of the 2016 presidential election failed.  Sine the electoral college has existed it has been possible for a candidate to win the office lawfully and legally despite having fewer popular votes. Campaign finance law has done nothing to stop increased spending, and it's complexity virtually rules out indictment, never mind conviction. 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2016-presidential-campaign-fundraising/

I've explained that it is impossible to determine what effect the Russian interference had on the election.  It is logical to assume carefully timed releases of hacked Democratic emails and campaign plans had an impact, as did fake news releases on social media meant to cause discord.  Whether this impact was sufficient to change the outcome of such a close election is impossible to determine.

 

"The Russian attempt to determine the outcome of the 2016 presidential election failed" is opinion, unprovable and unsupported by fact.

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, Ramen087 said:

 The Russian attempt to determine the outcome of the 2016 presidential election failed.  Sine the electoral college has existed it has been possible for a candidate to win the office lawfully and legally despite having fewer popular votes. Campaign finance law has done nothing to stop increased spending, and it's complexity virtually rules out indictment, never mind conviction. 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2016-presidential-campaign-fundraising/

 

 

 If the goal was to get Trump elected and Trump was elected. How did it failed?

[riclag]

10 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Did you say write this?

"I think that was appropriate , considering how   that administration intentional neglect on this Russian Meddling("Stand Down")  destroyed  my countries democracy, "Complicit" 

I was commenting to CH ,The poster said I thought the so called hacking in 2017 of the Russians was destroying  my country. Indeed, the past administration set this in motion. The mess PT inherited is being blamed on him and his admin. Therefore,  destroying Democracy 

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by riclag

[Ramen087]

6 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 If the goal was to get Trump elected and Trump was elected. How did it failed?

He was elected regardless the Russian attempt.

[heybruce]

Just now, Ramen087 said:

He was elected regardless the Russian attempt.

Which you can not prove.  Opinion, not fact.

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Ramen087 said:

He was elected regardless the Russian attempt.

If you say so

 

[riclag]

Almost 2am

[Ramen087]

15 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I've explained that it is impossible to determine what effect the Russian interference had on the election.  It is logical to assume carefully timed releases of hacked Democratic emails and campaign plans had an impact, as did fake news releases on social media meant to cause discord.  Whether this impact was sufficient to change the outcome of such a close election is impossible to determine.

 

"The Russian attempt to determine the outcome of the 2016 presidential election failed" is opinion, unprovable and unsupported by fact.

You are incorrect. It has already been conclusively determined the outcome of the election was not materially affected by Russian operations. If it wasn't determined, the electoral votes would not have been approved. The matter us settled; Donald Trump is the President if the USA.    Have a nice life.  Bye.

Edited July 16, 2018 by Ramen087

[Curt1591]

Got to hand it to Mueller. He was able to find out that Russian spies were doing spy stuff!

I'm glad he indicted Russian nationals residing in Russia. Great job!

[heybruce]

37 minutes ago, Ramen087 said:

You are incorrect. It has already been conclusively determined the outcome of the election was not materially affected by Russian operations. If it wasn't determined, the electoral votes would not have been approved. The matter us settled; Donald Trump is the President if the USA.    Have a nice life.  Bye.

" It has already been conclusively determined the outcome of the election was not materially affected by Russian operations. "

 

BS.  The extent of Russian meddling is still being determined.  Provide a source for your claim.

Edited July 16, 2018 by heybruce

[heybruce]

17 minutes ago, Curt1591 said:

Got to hand it to Mueller. He was able to find out that Russian spies were doing spy stuff!

I'm glad he indicted Russian nationals residing in Russia. Great job!

Can you identify Russian spies by name in Russia, what they do and how they do their spy stuff?

 

Do you think we can prevent them from spying on us if we don't first identify them and how they operate?

[JHolmesJr]

21 hours ago, bristolboy said:

If the only view of things you've got is hindsight, lots of smart people will look like fools. The truly stupid people are those who despite what we know now, still deny that Russians are trying to hack the elections.

 

Maybe they are....thats what all superpowers do...try to influence geopolitics to suit their interests.

 

The bigger crime here is co-opting such an act ... Facebook must take the blame for playing 

loose with peoples data. 

 

What is true going to do....confront Putin strongly....Putin will smile and say no we didn't.

He is not going t send 12 russians to face charges in an investigation run by americans.

 

My advice is the dems need to stop the BS and fix their own house first.

 

Media outlets are the worst offenders depending on who is controlling them they spin the

story to suit their masters...who can forget NYT running story after story on WMD

and then apologising when found to be spreading false news.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

16 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

Maybe they are....thats what all superpowers do...try to influence geopolitics to suit their interests.

 

The bigger crime here is co-opting such an act ... Facebook must take the blame for playing 

loose with peoples data. 

 

What is true going to do....confront Putin strongly....Putin will smile and say no we didn't.

He is not going t send 12 russians to face charges in an investigation run by americans.

 

My advice is the dems need to stop the BS and fix their own house first.

 

Media outlets are the worst offenders depending on who is controlling them they spin the

story to suit their masters...who can forget NYT running story after story on WMD

and then apologising when found to be spreading false news.

 

 

“My advice is the dems need to stop the BS and fix their own”

 

There’s an on going investigation into the Russian interference in the US election.

 

Let’s see what that reveals shall we?!

[Chomper Higgot]

59 minutes ago, Curt1591 said:

Got to hand it to Mueller. He was able to find out that Russian spies were doing spy stuff!

I'm glad he indicted Russian nationals residing in Russia. Great job!

It is good stuff.

 

Trump would need some very special excuse to stop an investigation into what Russians did, especially when he’s spent so much time claiming no collusion.

 

If Trump tries to shutdown the investigation now he cannot claim he’s not helping Russia.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

Maybe they are....thats what all superpowers do...try to influence geopolitics to suit their interests.

 

The bigger crime here is co-opting such an act ... Facebook must take the blame for playing 

loose with peoples data. 

 

What is true going to do....confront Putin strongly....Putin will smile and say no we didn't.

He is not going t send 12 russians to face charges in an investigation run by americans.

 

My advice is the dems need to stop the BS and fix their own house first.

 

Media outlets are the worst offenders depending on who is controlling them they spin the

story to suit their masters...who can forget NYT running story after story on WMD

and then apologising when found to be spreading false news.

 

 

The important takeaway here is that the Times acknowledged its errors. Has Trump ever acknowledged his? 

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by bristolboy

[JHolmesJr]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

The important takeaway here is that the Times acknowledged its errors. Has Trump ever acknowledged his? 

 

you are jumping ahead...unless you have proof of errors committed.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, Curt1591 said:

Got to hand it to Mueller. He was able to find out that Russian spies were doing spy stuff!

 

Nice that you've managed to incorrectly lump criminal identity theft, criminal computer hacking, criminal conspiracy, and criminal election interference all under the "everyone does it" notion of spying.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Only in the dystopian world of a Trump presidency would you find a U.S. president calling it a "rigged witch hunt" when his own country is trying to investigate the extent to which a foreign country/enemy interfered with and attempted to influence a U.S. presidential election.

 

[Jingthing]

Only in the dystopian world of a Trump presidency would you find a U.S. president calling it a "rigged witch hunt" when his own country is trying to investigate the extent to which a foreign country/enemy interfered with and attempted to influence a U.S. presidential election.

 

Yes we're in deep trouble. Code red hat level. Emergency. "trump" is arguably a much bigger threat to the USA than his good buddy Putin.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, JHolmesJr said:

you are jumping ahead...unless you have proof of errors committed.

Factual errors (lies)?  My god, where to start?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes we're in deep trouble. Code red hat level. Emergency. "trump" is arguably a much bigger threat to the USA than his good buddy Putin.

 

 

I keep thinking the outcome of this current summit is going to be:

 

1. Trump issues an executive order declaring Putin a U.S. citizen.

2. VP Pence resigns and Trump appoints Putin as his new vice president.

3. Trump abdicates and Putin becomes the new president of the United States.

 

Gotta remember, Trump as president has powers unbounded by any law or court or other authority. He is a law unto himself and can decree as he wishes.

 

Putin as U.S. President, and Trump back to Mar-a-Lago to play golf and hit up ex Playboy playmates.  And they never had to fire a shot.

 

How's your Russian language fluency, Comrade???

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

What would the comparable historical parallels be to the current Trump-Putin relationship?  Have there ever even been any in the history of the U.S., where a U.S. President is willing to sell out his own country and his own country's sovereign interests to a foreign adversary power.

 

It's kind of like...

-- If George Washington had tried to surrender the Colonies back to Britain.

-- If Abraham Lincoln had wanted to surrender the North to the South to preserve slavery.

-- If FDR had decided to team up with Hitler to enable Germany's conquering of Europe.

 

Why doesn't Trump just save Russia the trouble in 2020, cancel the U.S. Presidential Election for then and the future, and let Russia and Putin pick who the future U.S. presidents are going to be.

 

 

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

you are jumping ahead...unless you have proof of errors committed.

He averages 7 falsehoods per day. Where have you been?

[bristolboy]

7 hours ago, riclag said:

I was commenting to CH ,The poster said I thought the so called hacking in 2017 of the Russians was destroying  my country. Indeed, the past administration set this in motion. The mess PT inherited is being blamed on him and his admin. Therefore,  destroying Democracy 

 

Now it's the "so called hacking"? Well you may well be in agreement with Trump.

Trump Today: President says Putin denial of election interference was ‘powerful’

At a joint press conference, President Donald Trump on Monday said he believed the “incredibly powerful” denial of election interference by Russian President Vladimir Putin as he raised doubts about the findings from U.S. intelligence.

 

Trump’s comments came after a roughly two-hour meeting with Putin in which just translators were present. Asked by reporters if he believed Putin or the U.S., Trump brought up the issue of 33,000 missing emails from Hillary Clinton, which were sought by House Republicans in the Benghazi probe. 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-today-president-says-putin-denial-of-election-interference-was-powerful-2018-07-16?mod=hp_minor_pos20

 

Dan Coats, the director of national intelligence, and other American intelligence officials “said they think it’s Russia,” Mr. Trump said. “I have President Putin, he just said it’s not Russia. I don’t see any reason why it would be.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/16/world/europe/trump-putin-summit-helsinki.html

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by bristolboy