Elon Musk apologises to British caver for 'pedo' slur

[dufusdonald]

15 minutes ago, Eligius said:

Good post indeed.

Yes, Musk's claim that saying to someone 'stick your submarine up your backside' is intended to mean engaging in a sexual act - is ludicrous. I have heard that expression (or variants of it) all throughout my life, and it has never, ever, occurred to me that the speaker was referring to 'engaging in a sexual 'act' - because he was not!

 

As I said in another post, Musk seems in this recent spat unhealthily obsessed with sex and sexual practices. Says more about him than about Vern.

 

Really?

 

I imagine if you are gay then saying.  "stick it up your arse" may be a pleasant thought but for those of us not gay it is a slur.  People seem to forget that for ages even coming out of the closet was unheard of.  Being "gay" was in fact just as bad as being a "pedo".  In many countries it still is.  Just because the poster uses the term often does not make it acceptable. 

 

Maybe Musk calls everyone a "pedo" that he gets pissed off with and it's no big deal to him like the poster who says he uses the insulting term often and thinks nothing of it.  It's pretty clear the term is meant to be an insult and suggesting someone is "gay" and in a negative tone to piss that person off.  And that I am sure is how anyone not gay would take it.  For all those who assume (which makes them an ass) to know what was in Musk's mind you could say the same about Unsworth. Logically, you can't have it both ways unless of course you are gay I guess or a British apologist. 

Edited July 19, 2018 by dufusdonald

[JAG]

4 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Mr. Musk's 'apology' was offered while Mr. Unsworth seemingly is still considering possible legal action and was done in that context.

 

Some have indicated that they believe Mr. Unsworth has a solid case for libel. Maybe so. But I will also say, if there ever was a jury trial in US particularly in California and Mr. Musk's defense team played this video in the courtroom, regardless of Musk's Twitter tweets, team Unsworth might be laughed all the way back to Chiang Rai.

 

Which probably rather says more about how juries and their selection are manipulated in high profile money driven libel cases in the State of California than it does about the reality of Mr Musk's sordid little ego driven twittering ...

[dufusdonald]

3 minutes ago, JAG said:

Which probably rather says more about how juries and their selection are manipulated in high profile money driven libel cases in the State of California than it does about the reality of Mr Musk's sordid little ego driven twittering ...

Oh yeah. All those stupid, uneducated, liberal American jurists in California are so easily manipulated unlike the highly educated Brexit for breakfast Brits.  lol

[JAG]

1 minute ago, dufusdonald said:

Oh yeah. All those stupid, uneducated, liberal American jurists in California are so easily manipulated unlike the highly educated Brexit for breakfast Brits.  lol

Oh dear, chip on your shoulder getting a bit heavy is it?

[JLCrab]

7 minutes ago, JAG said:

Which probably rather says more about how juries and their selection are manipulated in high profile money driven libel cases in the State of California than it does about the reality of Mr Musk's sordid little ego driven twittering ...

No. It would clearly show a jury -- anywhere -- in no uncertain terms why Mr. Musk precipitously reacted the way he did and without forethought.

[monkfish]

Now Mr Unsworth should apologise as he did start this spat of insults..

[dufusdonald]

10 minutes ago, JAG said:

Oh dear, chip on your shoulder getting a bit heavy is it?

Not at all. I was just agreeing with the poster who knows so much about California jurists.  Smart fellow. 

[dufusdonald]

5 minutes ago, monkfish said:

Now Mr Unsworth should apologise as he did start this spat of insults..

But he won't because apparently saying, "stick it up your ass" is meant as a compliment if you are British according to one poster here.

[animalmagic]

Just now, dufusdonald said:

Really?

 

I imagine if you are gay then saying.  "stick it up your arse" may be a pleasant thought but for those of us not gay it is a slur.  People seem to forget that for ages even coming out of the closet was unheard of.  Being "gay" was in fact just as bad as being a "pedo".  In many countries it still is.  Just because the poster uses the term often does not make it acceptable. 

 

Maybe Musk calls everyone a "pedo" that he gets pissed off with and it's no big deal to him like the poster who says he uses the insulting term often and thinks nothing of it.  It's pretty clear the term is meant to be an insult and suggesting someone is "gay" and in a negative tone to piss that person off.  And that I am sure is how anyone not gay would take it.  For all those who assume (which makes them an ass) to know what was in Musk's mind you could say the same about Unsworth. Logically, you can't have it both ways unless of course you are gay I guess or a British apologist. 

If people who make assumptions are an ass, please elucidate on why you decided to assume Vern meant 'stick it up your arse' when he actually said something like, 'stick it where it hurts.'  I did not hear any reference to things beings stuck up <deleted>.

Isn't imagining that gays would find it a pleasant thought simply another assumption?

Edited July 19, 2018 by animalmagic
grammar

[dufusdonald]

6 minutes ago, animalmagic said:

If people who make assumptions are an ass, please elucidate on why you decided to assume Vern meant 'stick it up your arse' when he actually said something like, 'stick it where it hurts.'  I did not hear any reference to things beings stuck up <deleted>.

Isn't imagining that gays would find it pleasant a thought simply another assumption?

Yes.  You are making my point for me.  Most people here assume they know what Musk meant when he used the term and they assume they know it was a PR stunt. Ok fine. If all these sages are free to assume they know what Musk meant and thought then it must also be safe to assume what Vern meant and thought.  Get it or do you need to call me to get the drift?  People say they clearly know that Musk did it for PR. Ok then I can say Vern meant, "stick it up your arse" to mean stick it up your ass and meant it as a slur. And that he did the CNN interview for PR and his fifteen minutes of fame. 

 

Remember the main Brit diver refused an interview saying he had a job to do.  Simple logic. Take a course. 

 

Of course it is not logical to assume you know what the intention of a person is when they do something. You may be right. You may be wrong.  

Edited July 19, 2018 by dufusdonald

[aloha23]

euh - what's wrong with sticking torpedo-like "gear" up your anus?

many "modern" males actually like that ? 

i think soapies even do it for a small fee these days..

[newatthis]

6 minutes ago, animalmagic said:

If people who make assumptions are an ass, please elucidate on why you decided to assume Vern meant 'stick it up your arse' when he actually said something like, 'stick it where it hurts.'  I did not hear any reference to things beings stuck up <deleted>.

Isn't imagining that gays would find it pleasant a thought simply another assumption?

I'm in the same age bracket as Vern and "stick it where it hurts" has always meant "stick it up your arse."  And the look on Vern's face before and when he said it, clearly implies it.

[animalmagic]

Just now, dufusdonald said:

Yes.  You are making my point for me.  Most people here assume they know what Musk meant when he used the term and they assume they know it was a PR stunt. Ok fine. If all these sages are free to assume they know what Musk meant and did then it must also be safe to assume what Vern meant. Get it or do you need to call me to get the drift?  People say they clearly know that Musk did it for PR. Ok then I can say Vern meant, "stick it up your arse" to mean stick it up your ass and meant it as a slur.  Simple logic. Take a course. 

 

Of course it is not logical to assume you know what the intention of a person is when they do something. You may be right. You may be wrong.  

Really can't see the logic in claiming that just because some sages feel free to assume one thing then it is safe for someone else to assume another thing.

[dufusdonald]

3 minutes ago, animalmagic said:

Really can't see the logic in claiming that just because some sages feel free to assume one thing then it is safe for someone else to assume another thing.

That is why you need to take a logic course. 

[dufusdonald]

5 minutes ago, newatthis said:

I'm in the same age bracket as Vern and "stick it where it hurts" has always meant "stick it up your arse."  And the look on Vern's face before and when he said it, clearly implies it.

right. Common sense let's you know what it means.  And Vern has yet to apologize.  Shows what he is made of. He clearly meant to insult Musk in front of the world. No class.

[animalmagic]

Just now, dufusdonald said:

That is why you need to take a logic course. 

Logic would tell me both are wrong and shouldn't have made assumptions in the first place.

[dufusdonald]

Well, I think Mr Unsworth clearly made unfounded assumptions and Mr Musk simply responded with the insult.  Don't think he assumed the guy was a pedo.  

[newatthis]

8 minutes ago, dufusdonald said:

right. Common sense let's you know what it means.  And Vern has yet to apologize.  Shows what he is made of. He clearly meant to insult Musk in front of the world. No class.

Yes.And not only Musk but also his workers who laboured to design and build the submarine.

If he had just ignored Vern's comments, Musk would have been the "bigger"man. But he didn't.

And now they are both seen as petulant school children sniping at one another while the "real" men and women in this situation have gone back to their everyday lives.

[orchidfan]

Old news re-hashed

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, dufusdonald said:

Well, I think Mr Unsworth clearly made unfounded assumptions and Mr Musk simply responded with the insult.  Don't think he assumed the guy was a pedo.  

"It's truly amazing to me how many losers there are on this site. None of these posters knows Mr Musk yet they claim to know what he is thinking"

So how would YOU know that Mr Unsworth clearly made unfounded assumptions?

Do you know the cave?

Do you know how the machine works?

Give us some clear scientific proof of your statement or just stop making assumptions and sell them as truth while calling everybody stupid. You need some self reflection.

[dufusdonald]

6 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

"It's truly amazing to me how many losers there are on this site. None of these posters knows Mr Musk yet they claim to know what he is thinking"

So how would YOU know that Mr Unsworth clearly made unfounded assumptions?

Do you know the cave?

Do you know how the machine works?

Give us some clear scientific proof of your statement or just stop making assumptions and sell them as truth while calling everybody stupid. You need some self reflection.

Most of your request makes no sense but I'll try to explain yet again.  (Scientific proof of what statement?) So Unsworth said the sub wouldn't work.  Since they didn't use it no one can make that statement. If he said he thinks it won't work fine. That would have been his opinion. He said Musk did it for PR. How does he know that? He can't know that unless Musk told him that which he didn't.  Want more?

 

I don't have to know the cave or know the scientific specs of the sub. Neither did anyone else who keeps slamming Musk.

Edited July 19, 2018 by dufusdonald

[warrima]

When this case first made the headlines my initial reaction was to be appalled at Musks actions towards Vern. I could see no reasoning that could justify such a verbal/written assault and particularly the terminology used. Simply an indefensible attack on a commons man hero by a rich eccentric. I think this is the natural reaction most people would have. However over the past day or so as i have viewed the multitude of media on this case and the cave rescue in general i have arrived at a more reasoned verdict.  

In a mission like this, one most assume that anyone involved in the rescue is doing so out of compassion. Its a case where you lend whatever skills you have to contribute to the overall goal. Yes the headline guys are Vern and the divers, but there is an entire group behind the scenes such as the operators manning the pumps, mechanics maintaining them and catering crews feeding everyone etc etc the list goes on, many roles and many heros in my opinion. Many of us would say 'well im not a diver so i cant help' but a select few will say 'im not a diver but how can i contribute otherwise'. 

 

The point i make is that Elon Musk is an engineer. I have no idea if hes a qualified Diver but hes came to the table and said 'im an engineer and how can i help' Just like Vern came with his cave exploration skills. He used those skills to develop a mini sub - a possible evacuation method. Yes in the end it wasn't used, and we (including Vern) dont know if it would have worked. Timeline wise it looks like he came late to the party but in emergency situations thats what u do, you keep working on your plan b's and c's right to the last soul is saved. A downpour could have came at any time mid rescue and stopped plan A working.

 

So with all this said and done, why has Vern went on international TV and attacked Elon Musk debunking his sub design and telling him to stick it where it hurts in what was a calculated statement made without cause. Musk essentially was just another volunteer trying to help.

 

Musk's reply to this is deplorable and unacceptable but i would argue reactionary as he appeared genuinely hurt by Vern's unprovoked comments. That doesn't make it right but it should afford us a level of understanding. I'm an engineer also and your designs are like your baby, when someone discredits them you take it very personally.  I'm glad he has apologized.

 

My opinion therefore is that Vern is not innocent in this case and should accept the apology and move on. Be remembered as a hero and not the guy trying to make a quick buck. The lawyers that approached you are sharks! Dont swim with them. If this went to court it could get nasty and your character will be under an intense microscope. You will need to be sure u are whiter than white as every bargirl u ever even talked to will be trotted out to make statements. 

[FritsSikkink]

23 minutes ago, dufusdonald said:

Most of your request makes no sense but I'll try to explain yet again.  (Scientific proof of what statement?) So Unsworth said the sub wouldn't work.  Since they didn't use it no one can make that statement. If he said he thinks it won't work fine. That would have been his opinion. He said Musk did it for PR. How does he know that? He can't know that unless Musk told him that which he didn't.  Want more?

 

I don't have to know the cave or know the scientific specs of the sub. Neither did anyone else who keeps slamming Musk.

Mr Unsworth knows the cave very well and has seen the sub. So he makes an educated statement, which can't be said from you. Musk made a couple of other statements in his rant, which were not truthful too.

Edited July 19, 2018 by FritsSikkink

[dufusdonald]

10 minutes ago, warrima said:

When this case first made the headlines my initial reaction was to be appalled at Musks actions towards Vern. I could see no reasoning that could justify such a verbal/written assault and particularly the terminology used. Simply an indefensible attack on a commons man hero by a rich eccentric. I think this is the natural reaction most people would have. However over the past day or so as i have viewed the multitude of media on this case and the cave rescue in general i have arrived at a more reasoned verdict.  

In a mission like this, one most assume that anyone involved in the rescue is doing so out of compassion. Its a case where you lend whatever skills you have to contribute to the overall goal. Yes the headline guys are Vern and the divers, but there is an entire group behind the scenes such as the operators manning the pumps, mechanics maintaining them and catering crews feeding everyone etc etc the list goes on, many roles and many heros in my opinion. Many of us would say 'well im not a diver so i cant help' but a select few will say 'im not a diver but how can i contribute otherwise'. 

 

The point i make is that Elon Musk is an engineer. I have no idea if hes a qualified Diver but hes came to the table and said 'im an engineer and how can i help' Just like Vern came with his cave exploration skills. He used those skills to develop a mini sub - a possible evacuation method. Yes in the end it wasn't used, and we (including Vern) dont know if it would have worked. Timeline wise it looks like he came late to the party but in emergency situations thats what u do, you keep working on your plan b's and c's right to the last soul is saved. A downpour could have came at any time mid rescue and stopped plan A working.

 

So with all this said and done, why has Vern went on international TV and attacked Elon Musk debunking his sub design and telling him to stick it where it hurts in what was a calculated statement made without cause. Musk essentially was just another volunteer trying to help.

 

Musk's reply to this is deplorable and unacceptable but i would argue reactionary as he appeared genuinely hurt by Vern's unprovoked comments. That doesn't make it right but it should afford us a level of understanding. I'm an engineer also and your designs are like your baby, when someone discredits them you take it very personally.  I'm glad he has apologized.

 

My opinion therefore is that Vern is not innocent in this case and should accept the apology and move on. Be remembered as a hero and not the guy trying to make a quick buck. The lawyers that approached you are sharks! Dont swim with them. If this went to court it could get nasty and your character will be under an intense microscope. You will need to be sure u are whiter than white as every bargirl u ever even talked to will be trotted out to make statements. 

Well said. Exactly what I have been trying to say now for two days.

 

Or put another way:  

How about this. 1) Why would Musk spend all his valuable time and that of his engineers' time and the money and the equipment etc etc KNOWING it would not work?  

2. Are all the bashers here suggesting Musk made the sub with no input or specs from anyone? Or did someone give him input?  Hmm

3. So now Musk comes to Thailand with the sub just for PR according to the bashers here.  Why would he do that knowing it won't work?

4.  So let's suggest they are out of options. Water rising. Can't risk taking the kids out one by one.  So now they turn to Musk and they put it in the water. Even the bright lights here have to realize they are gonna first try to get to the kids with the sub. Either it gets there or it doesn't.  Not too difficult to figure out is it?  A test run.  If it doesn't get there everyone here can say it was for PR. 

Of course now Musk may look like a jerk.  Really? He would need that backlash? Beyond stupid to think that. (In my view).

5. So they told him they were gonna go another route. Fine and it worked. Fantastic.  

 

As the poster so eloquently wrote Musk is an engineer. He simply tried to help out.  And in my mind he kept tweeting because yes he is well known and maybe just maybe because of that the families felt that someone of import was gonna save their kids. If John Doe came up with Musk's idea everyone would have dismissed him.  But not Musk.  

 

Musk didn't do anything different than the diver who died said when he said he was gonna get them out.  Musk risked  his rep to help not knowing if it would work or not but he was willing to try. And all the bashers here can think of is he did it solely for PR. 

 

I'll say it again. You are all losers who think that.

 

I would be willing to bet money Musk would try and prove it would work but I doubt the Thai government is gonna let him try it for obvious reasons.

Edited July 19, 2018 by dufusdonald

[473geo]

1 minute ago, FritsSikkink said:

Mr Unsworth knows the cave very well and has seen the sub. So he makes an educated statement, which can't be said from you.

No he made calculated, dismissive, derogatory, hurtful and thoughtless comments regarding a person and team that were invited to provide an alternative solution, and worked hard to do so.

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

When this case first made the headlines my initial reaction was to be appalled at Musks actions towards Vern. I could see no reasoning that could justify such a verbal/written assault and particularly the terminology used. Simply an indefensible attack on a commons man hero by a rich eccentric. I think this is the natural reaction most people would have. However over the past day or so as i have viewed the multitude of media on this case and the cave rescue in general i have arrived at a more reasoned verdict.  

In a mission like this, one most assume that anyone involved in the rescue is doing so out of compassion. Its a case where you lend whatever skills you have to contribute to the overall goal. Yes the headline guys are Vern and the divers, but there is an entire group behind the scenes such as the operators manning the pumps, mechanics maintaining them and catering crews feeding everyone etc etc the list goes on, many roles and many heros in my opinion. Many of us would say 'well im not a diver so i cant help' but a select few will say 'im not a diver but how can i contribute otherwise'. 
 
The point i make is that Elon Musk is an engineer. I have no idea if hes a qualified Diver but hes came to the table and said 'im an engineer and how can i help' Just like Vern came with his cave exploration skills. He used those skills to develop a mini sub - a possible evacuation method. Yes in the end it wasn't used, and we (including Vern) dont know if it would have worked. Timeline wise it looks like he came late to the party but in emergency situations thats what u do, you keep working on your plan b's and c's right to the last soul is saved. A downpour could have came at any time mid rescue and stopped plan A working.
 
So with all this said and done, why has Vern went on international TV and attacked Elon Musk debunking his sub design and telling him to stick it where it hurts in what was a calculated statement made without cause. Musk essentially was just another volunteer trying to help.
 
Musk's reply to this is deplorable and unacceptable but i would argue reactionary as he appeared genuinely hurt by Vern's unprovoked comments. That doesn't make it right but it should afford us a level of understanding. I'm an engineer also and your designs are like your baby, when someone discredits them you take it very personally.  I'm glad he has apologized.
 
My opinion therefore is that Vern is not innocent in this case and should accept the apology and move on. Be remembered as a hero and not the guy trying to make a quick buck. The lawyers that approached you are sharks! Dont swim with them. If this went to court it could get nasty and your character will be under an intense microscope. You will need to be sure u are whiter than white as every bargirl u ever even talked to will be trotted out to make statements. 

Best post on this thread ! Sums it up exactly as it happened ( IMHO ).

Vern’s comments were unnecessarily harsh on someone who was only trying to help .

Elon’s comments were very unwise , he succumbed to provocation and lost his cool.

Elon apologised and all is well !!

Should Vern apologise for his initial remarks ?, personally I think so, but if he doesn’t it’s okay too.

Let’s move on please. !!

[dufusdonald]

36 minutes ago, warrima said:

When this case first made the headlines my initial reaction was to be appalled at Musks actions towards Vern. I could see no reasoning that could justify such a verbal/written assault and particularly the terminology used. Simply an indefensible attack on a commons man hero by a rich eccentric. I think this is the natural reaction most people would have. However over the past day or so as i have viewed the multitude of media on this case and the cave rescue in general i have arrived at a more reasoned verdict.  

In a mission like this, one most assume that anyone involved in the rescue is doing so out of compassion. Its a case where you lend whatever skills you have to contribute to the overall goal. Yes the headline guys are Vern and the divers, but there is an entire group behind the scenes such as the operators manning the pumps, mechanics maintaining them and catering crews feeding everyone etc etc the list goes on, many roles and many heros in my opinion. Many of us would say 'well im not a diver so i cant help' but a select few will say 'im not a diver but how can i contribute otherwise'. 

 

The point i make is that Elon Musk is an engineer. I have no idea if hes a qualified Diver but hes came to the table and said 'im an engineer and how can i help' Just like Vern came with his cave exploration skills. He used those skills to develop a mini sub - a possible evacuation method. Yes in the end it wasn't used, and we (including Vern) dont know if it would have worked. Timeline wise it looks like he came late to the party but in emergency situations thats what u do, you keep working on your plan b's and c's right to the last soul is saved. A downpour could have came at any time mid rescue and stopped plan A working.

 

So with all this said and done, why has Vern went on international TV and attacked Elon Musk debunking his sub design and telling him to stick it where it hurts in what was a calculated statement made without cause. Musk essentially was just another volunteer trying to help.

 

Musk's reply to this is deplorable and unacceptable but i would argue reactionary as he appeared genuinely hurt by Vern's unprovoked comments. That doesn't make it right but it should afford us a level of understanding. I'm an engineer also and your designs are like your baby, when someone discredits them you take it very personally.  I'm glad he has apologized.

 

My opinion therefore is that Vern is not innocent in this case and should accept the apology and move on. Be remembered as a hero and not the guy trying to make a quick buck. The lawyers that approached you are sharks! Dont swim with them. If this went to court it could get nasty and your character will be under an intense microscope. You will need to be sure u are whiter than white as every bargirl u ever even talked to will be trotted out to make statements. 

Again, an excellent observation however, if I were Mr Unsworth I would tell you to, "stick it where it hurts" to even suggest that he has ever talked to a bar girl. Wouldn't want his daughter to think that would we? lol

Edited July 19, 2018 by dufusdonald

[Lucky mike]

Maybe Musk could score a few brownie points making a donation to dead ex seals family ?

[dufusdonald]

3 minutes ago, Lucky mike said:

Maybe Musk could score a few brownie points making a donation to dead ex seals family ?

If he did the bashers here would say he did it for PR. The guy can't win.  

[transam]

7 minutes ago, dufusdonald said:

If he did the bashers here would say he did it for PR. The guy can't win.  

Doubt it....