American Barring Order holder denied Medical Visa Entry

[Injured]

American,66 year old denied Entry with Medical Visa issues by Thailand Embassy in Cambodia.  In Thailand some +25 years.  Going to work abroad awaiting contracts. Having overstayed visa in Thailand 3 times prior at the Thai lawyers advice to just pay the fine. It was at bad timing to suffer a stroke prior to leaving on a work contract. I did not incurr a hospital stay as there is nothing a Thai hospital can do.  An overstay happened of 635 days with 3/4 time laying at home with family. Plus rehabilitate to leave.  I visited the hospital during this time due to a bad fall at home due to the stroke. The Thai Hospital gave me a clear diagnose of just bruised, stroke,  and hypertension. I lasted 5 months on the job until I visited a Catholic hospital in Iraq.  They diagnosed a fractured shoulder,  stroke,  glocoma,  and compressed spine at neck and lower spine.  I am not able to return due to the barring order.  A petition was filed with all medical backup.  Since 1 may.  However the lawyer say on this since 27 Dec 2017.

No decision has yet been given by Immigration.  I went to the Thai Embassy in Cambodia.  I provided as requested and informed them of the barring order. I was issued a Medical Visa by the embassy to return.  However Bangkok Immigration will not accept the visa. They have said it was denied due to the past offense. Which fines were paid. As added,  my entire thai family with grandkids were is located in Bangkok. 

This has been going on for almost a year with no official denial. Cambodia does not have the medical facilities for brain exams. 

The local doctor has given me a no fly order and the condition is still serious with daily dizziness. 

I am currently holding a valid medical visa,  due to doctor diagnosis,  I have limited travel and advise go to Thailand for hospital and home care. 

I have 2 years of the ban left which is a coin toss on further complications. 

Thailand refuses Medical Treatment? 

There goes that Medical Hub!! 

[nausea]

I must say your story makes my little peeve about bring fined for late 90 day reporting, when I was in the hospital on a drip, and arrived with medical reports in hand, seem very petty indeed. Anyway, good luck to you, hope you get it all resolved eventually.

[ubonjoe]

I am sorry but I can be of no help since there is no procedures for filing an appeal for a ban from entering the country due to a long overstay that i am aware of.

If you had known about the ban something might of been done to prevent it before leaving the country.

 

[impulse]

Just to be clear, has the OP actually been denied entry by BKK immigration, or just told that he will be?   The way I read it, he's got a current medical visa issued in Cambodia? 

 

It wouldn't be the first time a lawyer made himself "indispensable" to bill some hours.

 

I'm not saying the odds are great, but he won't be dealing with BKK immigration if his condition prevents him from flying in.  If it were me (and my status in Cambodia was solid), I'd try walking across a land border.  Seems he has too much to lose to just throw up his hands and give up without even trying.

 

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, impulse said:

Just to be clear, has the OP actually been denied entry by BKK immigration, or just told that he will be?   The way I read it, he's got a current medical visa issued in Cambodia? 

The way I read his post is that he got the visa and tried to enter the country. I assume he meant he tried entering at one of the airport in Bangkok.

The visa would be valid for 3 months. It would be a tourist visa or a non-o based upon getting medical care. Embassies do not check for a ban before issuing a visa,

[Injured]

I was stopped from boarding flight in Cambodia. 

Flight manifests are given to airline in Bangkok. 

Thai embassy has no blacklist in their computer.  If did,  cannot issue a visa. 

The Thai Embassy has no authority on Bangkok Immigration honoring your visa.

Think about it...... They want a return ticket.  But. Physician can only say when able to go back out.  And,  Thailand flag carriers have a no refund on tickets.  

No,  I have no written denial from Bangkok Immigration  on the petition or the visa. But,  when airlines called bangkok immigration,  they said no entry until 2020. Due to overstay. They ignore the Medical Visa status. US embassy has no authority over Thai immigration. However,  not sure on a denial of medical request. All my family is in Thailand. Not USA. 

Edited July 23, 2018 by Injured
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[Injured]

The visa is a MT.  Medical Visa. 

All your visas are a TR Tourist  visa

.

Both the Thai Embassy and Bangkok Immigration General have all my medical document requirements. 

I was informed by the lawyer that my documents were still on his desk. 

True false?? 

Why sit on a request when it includes medical situations? Nothing makes sense. Someone blocking?  Immigration allows blocking medical  requirements? 

Edited July 23, 2018 by Injured
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[pontious]

I sympathize with your medical problems but at the end of the day you admit you overstayed on 3 occasions and the last one for 635 days. If you were unable to travel the hospital surely would have said so in a letter. I assume they did not which implies to me you could.   

[Injured]

32 minutes ago, pontious said:

I sympathize with your medical problems but at the end of the day you admit you overstayed on 3 occasions and the last one for 635 days. If you were unable to travel the hospital surely would have said so in a letter. I assume they did not which implies to me you could.   

Overstay was not one after other and advised by the lawyer who was also related to Immigration top officials.  Actually,  immigration knew exactly I was doing,  had my address,  and fully aware at all times. The 635 days included my sick days. What letter?please read carefully,  the Thai hospital gave me a green light on departing with only stroke and hypertension.  I was misdiagnosed and told to return for further evaluation. I had the other medical problems missed. Spine,  shoulder brain. Upon departure from the airport,  immigration was informed of my condition. I departed in a wheelchair.  Their answer was to notify the Thai embassy in Iraq. There is no embassy there. The lawyer could have started proceedings as I sent them back in December. About a week after I departed. But,  he waited. You personally present letters to immigration,  they must be translated and presented formally.  You don't put them on Mickey Mouse or Minnie Mouse stationary. Even for hospital diagnosis.  They aware of medical terms?  Hardly. I assume you have not had much affiliation with the organization. 

[Injured]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The way I read his post is that he got the visa and tried to enter the country. I assume he meant he tried entering at one of the airport in Bangkok.

The visa would be valid for 3 months. It would be a tourist visa or a non-o based upon getting medical care. Embassies do not check for a ban before issuing a visa,

Joe,  no it is an MT visa for medical treatment. I was stopped at Tg counter and tg called bangkok immigration. There was actually confusion on using TR,  which is standard tourist.  Bangkok immigration informed tg I had a barring entry order. Just so everyone is aware blacklisted is not correct.  You have an entry barring order. If you are blacklisted,  don't plan on returning. It's just a term to look authorative. Airport's,  you want to land at Bangkok airport,  not DonMuang. 

It takes a while to comprehend you have 2 departments of the foreign ministry control visa which one has responsibility of issue and the other is enforcement. Enforcement has 10 articles they can deny entry.  Unless you are a criminal you do not enter into those deemed to deny entry. So,  it is enforced as they please with actually no law.  In reviewing,  only the penalties of overstay have been changed. No changes to arrest or procedures.  So. Why are you double jeopardy?  You paid the penalty in funds and plus receive a time in barrment. I don't understand the 3 years. This is for what? You are not home to watch the family from being run over from a drunk Thai. And,  the Thai goes free. 

[PoorSucker]

Consulates are under the jurisdiction of Ministry of foreign affairs, immigration is part of Thailand police. 

MFA has no way to access police records of blacklist, they are happy to take your money and give you a visa. 

Immigration will however deny you entering. 

[BritTim]

I know from your point of view this may seem harsh, but no Thai immigration official is going to allow a blacklisted individual to enter Thailand. Your medical problems are not their concern, and you were actually lucky to be denied boarding in Phnom Penh, instead of being detained and then returned on arrival in Bangkok.

 

Unless someone can get you removed from the blacklist, which would be very difficult and expensive if possible at all, nothing legal you try is going to get you into Thailand. If you have unlimited cash, an appeal based on your family being in Thailand would be better grounds for the appeal than your medical issues. Still, only a very well connected individual is possibly going to be able to get this done.

 

Just as a point of information, the 'MT' (medical tourism) visa is treated by Thai immigration in a similar way to a regular 'TR' visa.

[BritTim]

The best solution for getting decent medical care, with your family being able to visit, is probably Malaysia. Again, if you want to spend the next couple of years in Malaysia, you will need substantial financial resources.

[DoctorG]

Did I read that correctly? You have been living in Thailand, with a family, for over 25 years, doing fly-in-fly-out contracts, presumably using Tourist Visas?

If this is correct then, especially with your overstays, I am not surprised you were rejected.

 

[arithai12]

13 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Embassies do not check for a ban before issuing a visa

There are a number of inconsistencies, or hard to believe statements, in the OP story.

However, I am curious about this line that you wrote Ubonjoe. Is that a fact? Why would they not check, it seems to me the first thing to do. They must have access to the same records as immigration, and many times the ban is stamped on the passport too.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, arithai12 said:

However, I am curious about this line that you wrote Ubonjoe. Is that a fact?

It is a fact. Embassies and consulate have no direct link to immigrations records.

Many people have applied for visas with a ban and were denied entry or in some cases not allowed to board their flight.

They would probably not look for the banning stamp (or ignore it) in the passport or in many cases a person has a new passport.

[USNret]

Why not try land transportation?  There would be no boarding agent to stop you.  Since you have a visa, you would likely be admitted at a land crossing.  You already said you are not supposed to fly, so why are you trying to fly? 

[FritsSikkink]

you have overstayed multiple times, once almost 2 years. When you are sick, you can get an extension on medical grounds but you didn't bother.

Don't blame Thailand for your complete disregards of the countries laws.

Self inflicted wounds get over it.

[chuang]

Why foreigners keep flouting the immigration laws in Thailand knowingly  and when caught cried WOLF...????...?

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, USNret said:

Why not try land transportation?  There would be no boarding agent to stop you.  Since you have a visa, you would likely be admitted at a land crossing.  You already said you are not supposed to fly, so why are you trying to fly? 

A border crossing is no different than entering at an airport. Immigration will see the ban in their records as soon as his passport is swiped and the stamp in his passport.

[Injured]

8 hours ago, PoorSucker said:

Consulates are under the jurisdiction of Ministry of foreign affairs, immigration is part of Thailand police. 

MFA has no way to access police records of blacklist, they are happy to take your money and give you a visa. 

Immigration will however deny you entering. 

The embassy has a database that shows those that are blacklisted.  This is the real list not this barring BS. 

[geriatrickid]

15 hours ago, Injured said:

 

Think about it...... They want a return ticket.  But. Physician can only say when able to go back out.  And,  Thailand flag carriers have a no refund on tickets.  

 

Not true.  Only the very deep discounted fares are non refundable. Even Thai Airways discounted Saver fares are refundable.  And if you are complaining about a cost of 1000 baht or so in this situation, you obviously have more serious issues.

 

Your story does not move me  because there are multiple inconsistencies. An almost 2 year overstay , fly ins and outs for work on a tourist visa (as stated above) and you wonder why you are denied entry? You are the posterboy of what not to do in respect of immigration law compliance.

[lordblackader]

You overstayed 635 days - be grateful you're not banned for life because you would be in many western countries.  Crying foul is more than a bit rich. 

[Injured]

45 minutes ago, USNret said:

Why not try land transportation?  There would be no boarding agent to stop you.  Since you have a visa, you would likely be admitted at a land crossing.  You already said you are not supposed to fly, so why are you trying to fly? 

Medical reasons. Less oxygen,  blood clots forming. 

[pontious]

17 hours ago, Injured said:

Thailand refuses Medical Treatment? 

There goes that Medical Hub!! 

Many people come for medical treatment.. They have the correct visa but the difference is they are not banned from entering Thailand.

You have the correct visa but ARE banned from Thailand till 2020.

That is your fault not Thailand.

 

[Injured]

3 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

 

Not true.  Only the very deep discounted fares are non refundable. Even Thai Airways discounted Saver fares are refundable.  And if you are complaining about a cost of 1000 baht or so in this situation, you obviously have more serious issues.

 

Your story does not move me  because there are multiple inconsistencies. An almost 2 year overstay , fly ins and outs for work on a tourist visa (as stated above) and you wonder why you are denied entry? You are the posterboy of what not to do in respect of immigration law compliance.

Hi jack,  you have no idea what is around you.  First,  you buy a RT ticket and you lose it all.  You don't mind it?  2 years?  Go back and read.  This included stroke period. Not included would be less than a year. You sound like one of those column jumpers. 

[connda]

Thailand will not become a global medical hub if it can't get it's act together regarding smoothing the way for Visa extensions for individuals who have debilitating health conditions such as stroke.  Thai Immigration should be working directly with Thai hospitals which are caring for Medical Visa holder, or for that matter any visa holder who is medically incapacitated, to assure that they don't run afoul with Immigration. 

Given the aging expat community, it's going to look really good on international media when incapacitated patients are dragged out of their hospital bed or homes and throw in jail for 'overstaying their visa' when they were physically unable to process the visa paperwork while debilitated. 

[Pib]

2 minutes ago, connda said:

Given the aging expat community, it's going to look really good on international media when incapacitated patients are dragged out of their hospital bed or homes and throw in jail for 'overstaying their visa' when they were physically unable to process the visa paperwork while debilitated. 

Little dramatic don't you think.  The chances of seeing something like that are probably greater than being hit by lightning 10 times on a clear day.

[Injured]

4 minutes ago, pontious said:

Many people come for medical treatment.. They have the correct visa but the difference is they are not banned from entering Thailand.

You have the correct visa but ARE banned from Thailand till 2020.

That is your fault not Thailand.

 

Wrong.  The situation of the visa decides your entry. Reasons for entry due to medical treatment and request of a physician.  Having a barring order just pertains to entry. You see nothing wrong with a country that denies entry for medical reasons? Even a jailed murderer has medical treatment?   Medical visa is not a tourist visa.  But has a time limit same. They could allow entry based on the visa time to gain treatment. Sure my fault.  I wanted a stroke. I originally just requested temporary visitation. But the twit lawyer said easier just revolt the order. See the doc and back to work. Thailand fault?  No. It's immigration fault for not keeping track of entries and departures. He needs a brand new computer system. Why not just perform the job?  Immigration has no idea who is in Thailand. So,  how to fix the problem.? Get foreigners to come to immigration for interview on new visas,  changes,  reporting. At the entry points setup more interview on foreigners coming into Thailand. You check each foreigner you cross path. In fact. After 25 years,  immigration is finally working. What happened prior?  The Boss slip up on supervision of the job?  Let down the safety and security of Thailand? 

No.  Not my fault,  no.  Not Thailand fault. Who's fault ? 

 

[Injured]

23 minutes ago, connda said:

Thailand will not become a global medical hub if it can't get it's act together regarding smoothing the way for Visa extensions for individuals who have debilitating health conditions such as stroke.  Thai Immigration should be working directly with Thai hospitals which are caring for Medical Visa holder, or for that matter any visa holder who is medically incapacitated, to assure that they don't run afoul with Immigration. 

Given the aging expat community, it's going to look really good on international media when incapacitated patients are dragged out of their hospital bed or homes and throw in jail for 'overstaying their visa' when they were physically unable to process the visa paperwork while debilitated. 

Connda,  thank you. 

But,  we are aware that Thailand is a tourist country. Cultures do not change without the people wanting it. You are talking humanitary and compassion in a caste system. A country that carries no law for Human Rights. You have a government that now wants the foreigner out. However don't believe you are not liked or wanted .  To limit the foreigners is the only way to find exactly who Thailand has living herebat this point. For face saving reasons,  better come up with good reasons. I have had 2 BCI background checks,  4 nato, 3 army  ,1 us national,  and my first visa entry backed by the thai military. I've worked with the Thai military. I must be in that security threat to not be allowed medical treatment? So what I had overstay. My lawyer recommended it as a cheaper way that immigration will not come looking. Immigration was aware of my presence. I knew some of them. 

Your letter is beautiful and to the point. You are correct. It will not become a hub.  Today,  you have the tourist industry on decline.  Tourists are not safe anymore. Tourists being beaten, raped,  killed. You do not need to kill the country if problems are in group areas. Thailand said they would clean these areas years ago. However, they try to sanitize the whole country at once without resources to do the job. 

If Thailand cares little for the family,  future generations,  and the health and welfare of all people, why even come here. They can run an ad on TV where to send donations.