Major Change Eff 1 Apr 19 in Bangkok Bank ACH Transfers

[marcusarelus]

51 minutes ago, PaulinSaphanKwai said:

The Ass't Manager asked me to convey the three points of information to the SSA and suggested that was all that was needed.

 

I will contact SSA/Manila Monday to determine how best to do that. 

 

Paul/SK

I got this from Manila a couple of weeks ago.

 

Bangkok Bank will still accept Social Security payments.  However, beneficiaries receiving federal benefits (including Social Security benefits) must comply with NACHA and OFAC requirements effective April 1, 2019.  Please visit your Bangkok Bank branch to seek guidance for the requirements you must comply with to ensure continued receipt of your Social Security benefit payments through direct deposit at Bangkok Bank.

 

Thank you.

 

Then I got this from Bangkok Bank

 

Thank you for your inquiry to the Social Security, Bangkok Bank will continue to  receive your payment  as usual but need your kind assistance to  contact the social security agency to complete your below details in the payment transaction in order to comply with NACHA regulation.

 

1.Your name and physical address in Thailand;

2.Your bank account number and the name and address of your  Bangkok Bank branch in Thailand; and

3.The 9-digit routing number of Bangkok Bank New York branch, which acts as the intermediary in the transaction, which is 026008691

 

Once Bangkok Bank, New York receives the correct payment transaction (IAT format) from the Social Security, they can process and send the payment to Bangkok Bank in Thailand for further credit into your account.

 

 

Hope this will clarify your concern and please feel free to contact me if you need more information.

 

Best regards.

 

Sukunya Viriyamettakul

Global Payment Services Department

Tel : 662-626-4135

 

 

[Pib]

Bangkok Bank says contact Social Security for guidance....and then Social Security says contact Bangkok Bank for guidance. 

 

But in all seriousness, first a person must find out from Bangkok Bank if they are receiving the govt payment in IAT format.  Some people are....some people are not.  If Bangkok Bank says the payment is not being sent/received in IAT format then the person needs to go to Social Security to do whatever to get Social Security to send in IAT format (international) versus the PPD format (domestic).  Bangkok Bank can't make the change; only Social Security can make the change.   Bangkok Bank can only tell a person if the payment is being received in IAT format or not.   

 

And unless something has changed from around a month ago, Manila is clueless on the subject....they just regurgitate some of the Bangkok Bank notification as indicated in above post.   But as more and more people contact them they are going to have to find a clue.  But in fairness Manila they do not make the actual payments as that is done from Social Security in the U.S....and actually Social Security just sends ACH payment instructions/files to the U.S. Treasury who then make the actual payment. 

 

The key is Social Security must provide payment instructions for IAT payment format which I "think" from my research causes the payment instructions to come out of a different Social Security payment center in the U.S.  Anyway, any payment such as Social Security pension, military retirement, etc., going to Bangkok Bank must pay in IAT format or come 1 Apr 19 Bangkok Bank will reject any non-IAT payment.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Pib

[Tariya]

Hi there,

Has anyone determined whether the NY Branch will accept a domestic wire from a US bank account and post it in a BBK account?

[Jingthing]

Just now, Tariya said:

Hi there,

Has anyone determined whether the NY Branch will accept a domestic wire from a US bank account and post it in a BBK account?

The New York branch is not a retail bank. You won't be able to open an account there. People with EXISTING domestic (ACH format) links already set up on a U.S. bank account will still be able to make the transfers to their Thai BB account (by sending to New York with their Thai bank account number) until April. It is now IMPOSSIBLE to set up and new such domestic (ACH) links.

Seek other alternatives. 

[Tariya]

I already have an Existing account, and I have been transferring funds for years. And, of course, I know about the April 1st cutoff. I was just wondering if I could substitute a domestic wire for the transfer. The reason is: I've been exploring alternative money transfer systems and they've been turning me down, all with the vague reason of "doesn't meet our internal requirements", which I assume means that I'm not a potentially big enough customer for them to bother. They're really not very accommodating or informative. 

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, Tariya said:

I already have an Existing account, and I have been transferring funds for years. And, of course, I know about the April 1st cutoff. I was just wondering if I could substitute a domestic wire for the transfer. The reason is: I've been exploring alternative money transfer systems and they've been turning me down, all with the vague reason of "doesn't meet our internal requirements", which I assume means that I'm not a potentially big enough customer for them to bother. They're really not very accommodating or informative. 

Sorry I failed to digest your use of the word wire. I think Pib will probably know. The only wires I know about are international SWIFT wires which banks often charge a lot for. 

[Skeptic7]

6 minutes ago, Tariya said:

I already have an Existing account, and I have been transferring funds for years. And, of course, I know about the April 1st cutoff. I was just wondering if I could substitute a domestic wire for the transfer. The reason is: I've been exploring alternative money transfer systems and they've been turning me down, all with the vague reason of "doesn't meet our internal requirements", which I assume means that I'm not a potentially big enough customer for them to bother. They're really not very accommodating or informative. 

Don't know the answer to your specific question. That said, you mentioned you're 'exploring alternative money transfer systems". The consensus here and many similar threads is TransferWise. It's service is FAST, easy, affordable, safe and reliable. Actually (thanks to "Pib") TransferWise is comparable, or even better depending on the amount, than the Bangkok Bank transfer method. Pib did a thorough real time comparison, which clearly shows the results. Go to page 4 of this thread to see his excellent and helpful research. 

[Tariya]

Domestic wire is a wire between banks in the US. My banks charges a very low fee for these.

[Tariya]

Transferwise was one of the companies that turned me down with the vague: "doesn't meet our internal requirements." Nothing more, and only that after a few days without any contact and after I called their customer service (if you want to call it that!)

[JimGant]

Quote

Has anyone determined whether the NY Branch will accept a domestic wire from a US bank account and post it in a BBK account?

Yes, been there, done that. See post 57 in this thread:

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1052004-us-topic-social-security-direct-deposit-to-us-bank/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-13337400

 

[how241]

Hopefully, they will do something different. 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Tariya said:

I already have an Existing account, and I have been transferring funds for years. And, of course, I know about the April 1st cutoff. I was just wondering if I could substitute a domestic wire for the transfer. The reason is: I've been exploring alternative money transfer systems and they've been turning me down, all with the vague reason of "doesn't meet our internal requirements", which I assume means that I'm not a potentially big enough customer for them to bother. They're really not very accommodating or informative. 

Sending a Domestic wire to the Bangkok Bank NY branch using their routing number and your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank account should work fine....in fact, I think one or two people in this thread or a relate thread have already successfully done it. 

 

However, come Apr 19 I don't see how a domestic wire will be allowed by Bangkok Bank NY because it would not include the critical SEC of "IAT" which signifies and international transfer.  Although sending a domestic wire from some banks might also allow entry of  detailed recipient info like address and phone number it would not include the IAT code since it's domestic transfer.

[Thailand J]

10 hours ago, Pib said:

However, come Apr 19 I don't see how a domestic wire will be allowed by Bangkok Bank NY because it would not include the critical SEC of "IAT" which signifies and international transfer.  Although sending a domestic wire from some banks might also allow entry of  detailed recipient info like address and phone number it would not include the IAT code since it's domestic transfer.

Correct. Domestic wires use ABA, not IAT, not SWIFT code.

[Pib]

A bit of silver lining appeared today around a dark cloud regarding being able to receive a Social Security Direct Deposit to Thai banks.  The dark cloud was the U.S. Embassy announcement that they would stop issuing income affidavits effective 1 Jan 19 used to support visa/extension of stays.  Another thread is talking that.

 

However, some silver lining appeared in one of the U.S. Embassy Q&As talking the change....see below snapshot from the Q&A document at below U.S. Embassy Bangkok website.

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/

 

Now above is indeed good news regarding being able to continue SS Direct Deposits and this change should/may also allow a person to have their SS benefit payment sent to more Thai banks that just Bangkok Bank based on my research months ago regarding how IDD works and "might" even do away with some of the restrictions on the account only being in your name (i.e., could be a joint account).  But we will have to wait and see how the SSA IDD will work for Thai banks as it may still only support Bangkok Bank....or maybe multiple or all Thai banks....and maybe fewer restrictions.  We will have to wait to see the specifics.  But the important thing is SS deposits will be able to continue. 

 

If your current SS pension payment is coded PPD versus IAT and having a hard time in trying to figure out how to get SSA to change it to IAT coding, then switching to the IDD program will definitely fix the issue.   

But what about military pensions paid by the Defense Finance & Accounting Service (DFAS) as there are lots of military retirees in Thailand receiving such pensions.  SSA and DFAS have separate IDD lists....with the DFAS list being only above half the size of the SSA list of countries.  Thailand was on neither list but the embassy has convinced the SSA to add Thailand to their approved list of IDD countries....but the embassy made no mention of DFAS, OPM, VA or other govt agencies which have separate IDD lists.    

 

I have queried the embassy about if they are also working with DFAS to have Thai banks added the DFAS approved IDD list.  I should have asked about VA and OPM payments also, but forgot.  Some of you receiving benefit/pension payments from DFAS, VA, OPM, etc., might want to query the embassy also....more voices is better than one. 

 

Below is the embassy webpage where you could ask

https://th.usembassy.gov/us-citizen-services-bangkok-contact-form/

 

 

[gamb00ler]

Pib...

 

Can you post the excellent spreadsheet you created for comparison of SWIFT, BankokBank ACH and transferwise foreign inbound transfers?  I would like to add Deemoney to it as well.

 

Thanks,

Gamb00ler

[marcusarelus]

53 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

Pib...

 

Can you post the excellent spreadsheet you created for comparison of SWIFT, BankokBank ACH and transferwise foreign inbound transfers?  I would like to add Deemoney to it as well.

 

Thanks,

Gamb00ler

You have to go to Bangkok to transfer with Dee money unless I'm mistaken. 

[Pib]

3 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

Pib...

 

Can you post the excellent spreadsheet you created for comparison of SWIFT, BankokBank ACH and transferwise foreign inbound transfers?  I would like to add Deemoney to it as well.

 

Thanks,

Gamb00ler

Deemoney does not fit in what was being compared with my spreadsheet...the spreadsheet was comparing "inbound" transfer costs.  Deemoney is currently only for transfers "out" Thailand; you can not use them for inbound transfers.  They have mentioned they hope to have inbound service in the future from certain countries in cooperation with MoneyGram, but no dates, costs, etc., have been provided.  

 

Whereas Bangkok Bank "ACH," Transferwise, etc., are for transfers "into" Thailand; you can not use them for outbound services.  However, SWIFT can be used for outbound or inbound transfer to/from Thai banks.

[esqy]

If you have more than $10,000 in foreign bank account and file US taxes, you might have to file a annual FBAR notice by April 15.  

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/report-of-foreign-bank-and-financial-accounts-fbar

[Pib]

But there is an automatic extension to 15 Oct....no action required to get the extension.  So, basically you must file by 15 Oct each year.

[onera1961]

On 7/27/2018 at 5:46 AM, cycolista said:

I'm curious, how long does a transfer take using Transferwise?

From my personal experience, for small amounts like $2500 USD, it is next day. For large amount like 15K USD, it is one week.

[onera1961]

On 10/23/2018 at 5:40 AM, Tariya said:

I already have an Existing account, and I have been transferring funds for years. And, of course, I know about the April 1st cutoff. I was just wondering if I could substitute a domestic wire for the transfer. The reason is: I've been exploring alternative money transfer systems and they've been turning me down, all with the vague reason of "doesn't meet our internal requirements", which I assume means that I'm not a potentially big enough customer for them to bother. They're really not very accommodating or informative. 

Just set up transferwire. Easy. Transfer from your US bank (using debit card or log in information from your online banking) to any bank in Thailand using bank's swift no. Once set up, it stays in there system. With a few click, you can send small(100-1000USD/large (15K USD) amounts. It takes one day to reach your thai bank for small amount and may 5 days for large amount.

[soisanuk]

[Error using language string editorQuoteLineWithTime]

If you have more than $10,000 in foreign bank account and file US taxes, you might have to file a annual FBAR notice by April 15.  

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/report-of-foreign-bank-and-financial-accounts-fbar

The FBAR (Foreign Bank Account Report) report is required of US citizens if at anytime during the calendar year they had an aggregate equivalent to more than US$10,000, e.g. on (date) you had in Foreign Bank A - $2,000 and in Foreign Bank B - 8,001).  This report has no connection to whether you are required to file a US income tax return. It applies to all US citizens and residents. The report used to be required by June 30 but was recently changed to April 15 which coincides with the due date for the income tax filing, but is not filed with the return.  The FBAR is filed online with the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network and not with the Internal Revenue Service.

 

The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) requires a report be filed if you are required to file a US income tax return and you have foreign assets that fall within specific thresholds depending on whether you file single or married - the threshold is higher if you qualify as living outside the USA, e.g. single is $50,000 if living, as I recall, less than 330 days outside of the US and $200,000 if living more than the 330 days.  The FATCA report is a form filed with the income tax return sent to the IRS.

Edited October 31, 2018 by soisanuk

[esqy]

Soisanuk said:

The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) requires a report be filed if you are required to file a US income tax return and you have foreign assets

 

Does that include real estate if I buy a condo?

[Pib]

1 hour ago, esqy said:

Soisanuk said:

The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) requires a report be filed if you are required to file a US income tax return and you have foreign assets

 

Does that include real estate if I buy a condo?

No...it's foreign financial accounts only.....not stuff like how much your condo is worth.  See below webpage for FBAR instructions and partial quote from it.

 

https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/FBAR Line Item Filing Instructions.pdf

Quote

Who Must File an FBAR. A United States person that has a financial interest in or signature authority over foreign financial accounts must file an FBAR if the aggregate value of the foreign financial accounts exceeds $10,000 at any time during the calendar year. See General Definitions, to determine who is a United States person.

 

Foreign Financial Account. A foreign financial account is a financial account located outside of the United States. For example, an account maintained with a branch of a United States bank that is physically located outside of the United States is a foreign financial account. An account maintained with a branch of a foreign bank that is physically located in the United States is not a foreign financial account.

 

 

[Pib]

And don't confuse federal tax return reporting requirements (Form 8938) with FBAR (FinCen Form 114) reporting requirements.  Two different animals...different reporting threshold amounts depending on various things like whether filing single or joint, etc....etc....etc.  

 

Comparison of Form 8938 and FBAR Requirements

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/comparison-of-form-8938-and-fbar-requirements

 

[ningnong]

After doing a recent Transferwise transfer it is curious to see in the description field at my credit union the ACH to Transferwise claims IAT format. I never provided my address in Thailand to either Transferwise or my credit union. Bangkok Bank has an old address on file. A loophole that will get closed?

The description field at my CU for the transfer:

 

TransferWise Inc/Smith Jo/101218 /IAT/John Smith*12345 Elm St\Mytown*CA*US*99887

 

Maybe there's a simple explanation?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

20 minutes ago, ningnong said:

After doing a recent Transferwise transfer it is curious to see in the description field at my credit union the ACH to Transferwise claims IAT format. I never provided my address in Thailand to either Transferwise or my credit union. Bangkok Bank has an old address on file. A loophole that will get closed?

The description field at my CU for the transfer:

 

TransferWise Inc/Smith Jo/101218 /IAT/John Smith*12345 Elm St\Mytown*CA*US*99887

 

Maybe there's a simple explanation?

 

That's interesting, and curious.

 

Have you ever done a U.S. ACH thru BKKB New York, and if so, how did the same description field read for the transaction with your CU?

 

[Pib]

51 minutes ago, ningnong said:

After doing a recent Transferwise transfer it is curious to see in the description field at my credit union the ACH to Transferwise claims IAT format. I never provided my address in Thailand to either Transferwise or my credit union. Bangkok Bank has an old address on file. A loophole that will get closed?

The description field at my CU for the transfer:

 

TransferWise Inc/Smith Jo/101218 /IAT/John Smith*12345 Elm St\Mytown*CA*US*99887

 

Maybe there's a simple explanation?

Transferwise is probably just using the ACH IAT format to "pull" the funds from your CU.  That is Transferwise initiated the ACH pull transaction in IAT format which your CU can receive and process.  All US banks/CU can "receive" funds transmitted in IAT format or process ACH IAT "pull" transactions. 

 

However, I have yet to find one US bank/CU who will send funds in IAT format for a retail account like you or me would have, except for some banks that also focused towards "business" accounts and for those business account they offer ACH IAT "send" capability also.   For retail accounts banks/CU just offer ACH Domestic format and Int'l Wire (SWIFT); not ACH IAT format.

 

  

[Pib]

For those of you that have multiple bank and credit/debit card accounts I'm sure each of those accounts display "different" Descriptions for basically identical type transactions because each bank determines what data contained within the transaction coding it wants to display and also additional/different bank-unique description it might want to display.

 

For example one time I went to a Krungsri ATM and in succession over a few minutes did three Bt30K withdrawals with three different Visa debit cards issued by three different US banks.   Now I feel confident that transaction coding that Krungsri ATM transmitted to each of my US banks was identical....but when you look at the Description displayed by each of my US banks it was significantly different/varied based on how and what those US banks wanted to display.

 

Even when I do Transferwise transfers to my Bangkok Bank account and Krungsri Bank account....Bangkok Bank uses a description of "International Transfer" but Krungsri Bank just uses a description consisting of a 10 digit alpha/numeric string.  Night and day different because each bank determines what and how it wants to describe a transaction.

 

[ningnong]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That's interesting, and curious.

 

Have you ever done a U.S. ACH thru BKKB New York, and if so, how did the same description field read for the transaction with your CU?

 

Here's the description field for a ACH to BBK New York. But my credit union uses POPmoney for that type of transfer as I mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

John Smith/RECEIVER/180515/WE B