Major Change Eff 1 Apr 19 in Bangkok Bank ACH Transfers

[mokwit]

  On 12/9/2019 at 4:28 AM, Thailand J said:

huh? the correspondent bank does not convert the transfer. BBL BK converts it to THB upon arrival.

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That is how it should be, but there is a risk the correspondent bank can help itself by converting and it is not transparent so it can charge what it likes. They have been known to convert when the SWIFT instruction is "remit as currency" which is an explicit instruction not to convert.

[Pib]

  On 12/9/2019 at 4:32 AM, mokwit said:

That is how it should be, but there is a risk the correspondent bank can help itself by converting and it is not transparent so it can charge what it likes. They have been known to convert when the SWIFT instruction is "remit as currency" which is an explicit instruction not to convert.

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You have probably seen posts saying that happened but I expect what really happened is the sender "unknowingly allowed" the sending bank to accomplish the conversion (i.e., sender did not select the option to send as home country currency possibly due to vague/misleading...banks like to use vague wording to snag a indirect/direct fee) and the conversion really happened on the Sending bank end. Then the sender assumed some correspondence bank accomplished the exchange.

[mokwit]

  On 12/9/2019 at 6:44 AM, Pib said:

You have probably seen posts saying that happened but I expect what really happened is the sender "unknowingly allowed" the sending bank to accomplish the conversion (i.e., sender did not select the option to send as home country currency possibly due to vague/misleading...banks like to use vague wording to snag a indirect/direct fee) and the conversion really happened on the Sending bank end. Then the sender assumed some correspondence bank accomplished the exchange.

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Could be either situation.

[stargazer9999]

Hello.  I just found out about this problem today after talking with my local Bangkok Bank branch.  I didn't receive a 12/1 deposit as usual and that's the first time I've notice an issue.  This thread has been very helpful.  I've sent Vanguard funds via BBL NYC for years with no problems.  It's been convenient to do it that way and to just use my BKK Bank ATM card here once the funds arrive.  There may be a better way that I didn't know about and I can change the transfer method now if need be.

 

Can I change the Vanguard transfer information to use a SWIFT # instead of an ACH # and continue transfers that way I've been doing them?  Is TransferWise a better choice?  I've never used their service before.  Is the transfer rate/exchange fees better with TransferWise than the method I've been using with BBL NYC?

 

I appreciate any advice on what transfer method is best to use in the future.  I set this up years ago and haven't researched the latest and wisest transfer methods recently.

 

Thanks.

[Pib]

  On 12/12/2019 at 1:00 PM, stargazer9999 said:

Can I change the Vanguard transfer information to use a SWIFT # instead of an ACH # and continue transfers that way I've been doing them?  

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Can use SWIFT no problem....just use the Bangkok Bank SWIFT code and your account number.   Now how easy or hard doing a SWIFT with Vanguard I can't speak to that.  And be sure to send USD; do not allow Vanguard to accomplish the exchange for you if they ask...watch out for how that question might be asked on the transfer form/ibanking as it can be vague in hopes of getting you to allow them to accomplish the exchange and make a nice indirect fee due to a lower exchange rate than what you will get with a Thai bank.

[stargazer9999]

Pib, thanks for the info.  I'll check out Vanguard and see how easy/hard it is to make the switch.  It's been years since I set this up.

[Pib]

And there is tons of posts talking Transferwise in this thread and similar ones on ThaiVisa.  Just do a search.  But below is a very recent SWIFT and Transferwise cost comparison I did in a related thread.

 

  

[snooky]

I called Bangkok Bank NY office and they told me the new regulations went into effect at the end of November.  They do have a routing number for 'Wire Transfers' from US banks - 026008691 but I have not tried it.

Regarding Transferwise, when deposited in a bank here is it noted as a 'Foreign Transaction' or must you keep other records to prove this.  My extension is up for renewal in a couple of months and don't want to get caught without proper paperwork. Thanks!

[lopburi3]

  On 12/12/2019 at 6:14 PM, snooky said:

I called Bangkok Bank NY office and they told me the new regulations went into effect at the end of November.  They do have a routing number for 'Wire Transfers' from US banks - 026008691 but I have not tried it.

Regarding Transferwise, when deposited in a bank here is it noted as a 'Foreign Transaction' or must you keep other records to prove this.  My extension is up for renewal in a couple of months and don't want to get caught without proper paperwork. Thanks!

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If deposit is from their Bangkok Bank account into your Bangkok Bank account it is recorded as a foreign transfer.  But they use three different banks here so should select Thailand stay as the reason for transfer when asked making the transfer to make sure they try to use the Bangkok Bank account.  No guarantee but in past year of using no reports of it not working.  They also have downloads of the transfers which some immigration officers seem able to accept.

[Thailand J]

  On 12/12/2019 at 1:00 PM, stargazer9999 said:

Can I change the Vanguard transfer information to use a SWIFT # instead of an ACH # and continue transfers that way I've been doing them?

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To add a Thai bank to Vanguard to use SWIFT code you will have to call Vanguard to get a form which is not available online. Make sure you ask for the right one, there are two: one for the mutual fund account and one for the brokerage account. The form needs a medallion signature guarantee which is not available in Thailand. However , you can ask Vanguard if an embassy letter/affidavit is acceptable as substitute.

 

 

Before you do that, try this first: Since Bangkok Bank NY uses the same ABA to receive ACH and wire, and if you set it up right, you should be able to order a domestic wire at Vanguard. It's a little tricky as I have just found out lately. Here's how:

 

Do NOT goto "bank transfer" which will only send ACH, go to "Buy and sell".

Click on " Sell Vanguard Funds"

Chose the money market fund and amount, and hit" Continue"

You will see the next screen which will let you send a domestic wire.

Not sure but i think the fee is $10, free if your account balance is over $1M.

 

 

 

 

[snooky]

  On 12/13/2019 at 12:41 AM, lopburi3 said:

If deposit is from their Bangkok Bank account into your Bangkok Bank account it is recorded as a foreign transfer.  But they use three different banks here so should select Thailand stay as the reason for transfer when asked making the transfer to make sure they try to use the Bangkok Bank account.  No guarantee but in past year of using no reports of it not working.  They also have downloads of the transfers which some immigration officers seem able to accept.

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Thanks for the help,  I do use Bangkok Bank here for my main account so hopefully that will work out.

[Pib]

  On 12/12/2019 at 6:14 PM, snooky said:

I called Bangkok Bank NY office and they told me the new regulations went into effect at the end of November.  They do have a routing number for 'Wire Transfers' from US banks - 026008691 but I have not tried it.

 

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The 026008691 number is their ABA routing number....it can be used for either ACH like people had been doing or a "domestic" wire.   Use the ABA routing number along with your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank acct number---and hope there is enough info allow on your bank's domestic wire form to satisfy the Bangkok Bank NY branch requirement of identifying the recipient's name/address/phone number along with your sender info.  Some banks use a domestic wire form that is very simple....may not allow info such as the recipient's address while others have a domestic wire form very similar to international wire form where you can put detailed recipient info.   Around 6 months ago I did a domestic wire (cost $6) from my St Dept Fed Credit  (SDFCU) Union (which uses a detailed online domestic wire form) to Bangkok Bank NY...I was able to include the recipient's info on the form....the funds posted to my in-Thailand Bangkok Bank within 24 hours.  Please note when you do a wire this way you still get hit with the Bangkok Bank NY pass-thru fee and in-Thailand Bangkok Bank receiving fee just like for an ACH transfer.

[stargazer9999]

I never did this before but I just saw that Bank of America allows an international transfer via a SWIFT code for no fee if it's in the local currency.  I already have BOA so this might be an option for me to use.  Has anyone used this method to transfer from BOA to BKK Bank in Thailand or from any other US domestic bank?

 

 

 

[lopburi3]

  On 12/13/2019 at 7:19 AM, stargazer9999 said:

I never did this before but I just saw that Bank of America allows an international transfer via a SWIFT code for no fee if it's in the local currency. 

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Which will be bought at a very poor rate of exchange - more than paying what a normal fee would have been most likely.

[soisanuk]

  On 12/13/2019 at 7:43 AM, lopburi3 said:

Which will be bought at a very poor rate of exchange - more than paying what a normal fee would have been most likely.

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Chase Bank has something similar called Chase Global Transfer and charges a US$5 fee.  It also requires the dollars be converted by them before transferring in the local currency.  I did a comparison for transferring US$2,300 via Transferwise (TW) or Chase Global (GB).

 

Even with TW's much higher "fee", they still would deposit about 1,600 baht more into my Bangkok Bank account.  So, unless you have a non TW partner bank account and need to show monthly transfers from outside of Thailand for Immigration, TW is the better choice.  As noted by Lopburi3, using your US bank to do the conversion will result in a very poor exchange rate, which is where the US bank makes their money- so there is definitely an undisclosed "hidden fee".

[Tariya]

  On 12/13/2019 at 8:53 AM, soisanuk said:

Chase Bank has something similar called Chase Global Transfer and charges a US$5 fee.  It also requires the dollars be converted by them before transferring in the local currency.  I did a comparison for transferring US$2,300 via Transferwise (TW) or Chase Global (GB).

 

Even with TW's much higher "fee", they still would deposit about 1,600 baht more into my Bangkok Bank account.  So, unless you have a non TW partner bank account and need to show monthly transfers from outside of Thailand for Immigration, TW is the better choice.  As noted by Lopburi3, using your US bank to do the conversion will result in a very poor exchange rate, which is where the US bank makes their money- so there is definitely an undisclosed "hidden fee".

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1. I just put through a $1000 Swift test with BofA sending THB. The exchange rate was BofA 29.49. No wire fee. BKB took a 200thb fee on their end.

 

2. Then... $1000 sending USD. Exchange rate was BKB 30.05. This deposited only 560thb more. But BofA fee was $45. And, BKB took 200thb fee on their end.

 

 

[lopburi3]

  On 12/13/2019 at 9:48 AM, Tariya said:

1. I just put through a $1000 Swift test with BofA sending THB. The exchange rate was BofA 29.49. No wire fee. BKB took a 200thb fee on their end.

 

2. Then... $1000 sending USD. Exchange rate was BKB 30.05. This deposited only 560thb more. But BofA fee was $45. And, BKB took 200thb fee on their end.

 

 

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If you sent using Transferwise the exchange rate would be 30.21 and $1,000 total would result in 29,884.61 baht into account.

[Pib]

  On 12/13/2019 at 7:19 AM, stargazer9999 said:

I never did this before but I just saw that Bank of America allows an international transfer via a SWIFT code for no fee if it's in the local currency.  I already have BOA so this might be an option for me to use.  Has anyone used this method to transfer from BOA to BKK Bank in Thailand or from any other US domestic bank?

 

 

 

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Don't do it!!!!....NEVER let a western bank accomplish the exchange on their end as their rate is terrible.  It's like a worm on a hook....offer you a no direct fee transfer if you allow them to accomplish the exchange....but their low exchange (which is nothing more than an indirect fee) will more than offset their direct fee at your expense.

 

 

[Isaanbiker]

I'm so fed up with Bangkok Bank that I've changed my main bank to SCB.

 

   A very attractive lady opened my account, then told me she's single with a little daughter and she's flirting with me and made me understand that she'd be interested in a relationship.

 

   Another employee then put their app on my phone and it's so different to Bangkok Bank. I do understand that BB has one in  New York so SCB might not be that convenient. 

 

BB is like a red flag for me now. 

 

    

[Pib]

  On 12/13/2019 at 9:48 AM, Tariya said:

1. I just put through a $1000 Swift test with BofA sending THB. The exchange rate was BofA 29.49. No wire fee. BKB took a 200thb fee on their end.

 

2. Then... $1000 sending USD. Exchange rate was BKB 30.05. This deposited only 560thb more. But BofA fee was $45. And, BKB took 200thb fee on their end.

 

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I'm surprised the BOA rate is that good. Anyway, using above rates and assuming no correspondent bank fee somewhere a little under $2,500 is the crossover point.....below that crossover point letting BOA accomplish the exchange would be better deal than letting the receiving Thai bank accomplish the exchange....above that crossover point letting BOA accomplish the exchange gets progressively worst.  See below chart.

 

[stargazer9999]

If you need to show immigration monthly deposits using an American bank transfer does that exclude TransferWise?  I've always had Bangkok Bank transfers to show if needed before this recent ACH problem.  I also had the US Consulate income verification letters as an even better option until recently.

 

I realize that BOA will be a poor choice for the best exchange rate but immigration should accept their transfers as income.  I guess the bottom line is which way is the best option to transfer funds from the States at the best rate AND still satisfy immigration monthly retirement deposit requirements?

[soisanuk]

  On 12/13/2019 at 12:56 PM, stargazer9999 said:

If you need to show immigration monthly deposits using an American bank transfer does that exclude TransferWise?  I've always had Bangkok Bank transfers to show if needed before this recent ACH problem.  I also had the US Consulate income verification letters as an even better option until recently.

 

I realize that BOA will be a poor choice for the best exchange rate but immigration should accept their transfers as income.  I guess the bottom line is which way is the best option to transfer funds from the States at the best rate AND still satisfy immigration monthly retirement deposit requirements?

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Since the July fiasco (TW sent many Bangkok Bank (BB) account holders' transfers through their other partner bank Kasikorn, which resulted in the transfers being recorded by BB as domestic), TW was needless to say contacted by many of their customers (me included) and rec'd a reply that they would note in their records to send the transfers to BB direct, but could not guarantee it would happen 100% as sometimes technical problems might prevent it.

 

TW did add another "reason" for transfer to their dropdown menu which was for "longstay" in Thailand.  Since then, to my knowledge, everyone with BB accounts using that reason (again, me included) for their TW transfer has had the funds sent direct to BB and recorded as a foreign sourced deposit.  If interested in reports on TW activity for those in Thailand, there is a Transferwise Group on Facebook.

 

Even if a TW transfer gets recorded as a domestic transfer, there are ways to get documentation from the original receiving TW partner bank showing it originated from a foreign source -- but it can be a hassle to get it.  I am fortunately in position to send a 2nd transfer of at least 65k in the event my first of the month transfer using TW should again get coded as a domestic transfer (hasn't happened since the July transfer, but there is always a slight risk it can happen again). 

 

In the event that should happen, I will most likely use BB's New York Branch Baht Remittance service for the second transfer to ensure I have one for that month recorded as a foreign source deposit.  Information on this service is available on the Pattaya City Expats Club's website: http://www.pattayacityexpatsclub.com/expats/docs/TRANSFERRING-FUNDS.pdf     - because it uses snail mail to send a bank check to BB NY Branch which must first clear before the remit to Bangkok Bank account in Thailand (in baht, which they first convert using the offshore exchange rate vs the onshore rate used when the conversion is done here in Thailand by BB headquarters), it does take longer to receive the funds and exchange rate will not be as good as TW - but it ensures the transfer is recorded as FTT (foreign source). The fees are the same as they previously charged for ACH domestic transfers. BUT, you can direct the transfer be in US dollars -if you do, there is a flat fee of US$55.

 

  I just had a report from someone using this method that it took 12 days for the funds to arrive in his account after sending the bank check (although personal checks are not accepted, they do accept checks sent to them using your bank's online bill payment service - the payee must be BB NY Branch).

 

[stargazer9999]

I've set up a Transferwise account and I'm waiting for the first test transfer to complete.  I'm sending BOA money to a BKK account in Thailand directly.  A few questions:

 

1) If I used to transfer Vanguard automatically to BKK NYC each month do I now have to have Vanguard go to BOA first and then set up Transferwise to BKK Thailand as a second step?  There's no ACH/account # information available for Transferwise to have Vanguard send to, correct?

 

2) Can this process be automated entirely?  Sending Vanguard to BOA each month can be automated.  I saw you can repeat a Transferwise payment again but can that be scheduled to repeat on a certain date each month automatically?

 

3) If immigration wants supporting monthly transfer documentation for a retirement visa is this transfer method acceptable?  If they see monthly Vanguard withdrawals documented do they care about how it eventually gets to BKK Thailand (Transferwise part)?

 

Thanks.

 

[Pib]

1.  Unless you can also do an ACH Pull (ACH Debit) from your Vanguard acct you would need fund the Transferwise transfer a different way....like using your BoA bank acct to allow Transferwise to accomplish an ACH Pull to fund the transfers.  Or, you could open a Transferwise Borderless Acct (i.e., bank acct) and then possibly do an ACH Push from Vanguard to your Transferwise Borderless acct....then you use funds in your Boardless Acct to fund Transferwise transfers.

 

2.  You can not set Transferwise up to "automatically" do a transfer....you must manually do each transfer.

 

3.  If Transferwise uses Bangkok Bank bank as their partner bank to do the transfer to your Bangkok Bank acct then the transfer will appear as an International Transfer/FTT coding just like a SWIFT/ACH transfer.  You can contact Transferwise to have your transfers "tagged" to use Bangkok Bank as the partner bank and/or be sure to select the Reason for Transfers as "Long Term Stay Purposes (that's not the exact wording but close)" in the Transferwise real for transfer field.  If you don't do this then the transfers could end-up being thru one of Transferwise's other two Thai partner banks of K-bank and TMB resulting in a domestic SMART/SMT system transfer codding.  

 

Since the Thai immigration police order specifies "Thai bank" documentation to prove the monthly transfers were international, whether "your immigration office" will accept alternate/foreign docs like Transferwise receipts is up to that immigration office.....some do...some don't. But all will/must accept Thai bank documentation which confirms the transfers were international like your passbook reflecting FTT/international coding.  Best to talk to your local immigration office or other expats who use your immigration office as to if they will accept alternate/foreign transfer docs.

[Thailand J]

  On 12/19/2019 at 6:54 AM, stargazer9999 said:

I've set up a Transferwise account and I'm waiting for the first test transfer to complete.  I'm sending BOA money to a BKK account in Thailand directly.  A few questions:

 

1) If I used to transfer Vanguard automatically to BKK NYC each month do I now have to have Vanguard go to BOA first and then set up Transferwise to BKK Thailand as a second step?  There's no ACH/account # information available for Transferwise to have Vanguard send to, correct?

 

2) Can this process be automated entirely?  Sending Vanguard to BOA each month can be automated.  I saw you can repeat a Transferwise payment again but can that be scheduled to repeat on a certain date each month automatically?

 

3) If immigration wants supporting monthly transfer documentation for a retirement visa is this transfer method acceptable?  If they see monthly Vanguard withdrawals documented do they care about how it eventually gets to BKK Thailand (Transferwise part)?

 

Thanks.

 

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Have you tried  sending a domestic wire from Vanguard to BBL NY like I described in post #940?

just  thinking... The wire will be using ABA not Swift code and will be initiated in USD.

 

[Pib]

  On 12/19/2019 at 5:50 PM, Thailand J said:

Have you tried  sending a domestic wire from Vanguard to BBL NY like I described in post #940?

just  thinking... The wire will be using ABA not Swift code and will be initiated in USD.

 

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I do not have an acct with Vanguard.  But from review of post #940 it appears on the surface (based on the first steps) the Vanguard domestic wire form may not offer fields where you can enter address of the recipient and maybe other informational data...but maybe later screens do as you get deeper into the wire transfer. And maybe they only allow domestics wires to banks where you have previously setup an ACH transfer link to--some banks are like that like my Cap1 bank acct.  But my SDFCU acct allows you to send a domestic wire to any bank even if you haven't setup an ACH transfer link link....and they basically mirror their International Wire expect you enter ABA routing numbers for a domestic wire and SWIFT codes for an international wire.  Different policies, different ibanking capabilities at different banks.

[JimGant]

  On 12/20/2019 at 2:08 AM, Pib said:

the Vanguard domestic wire form may not offer fields where you can enter address of the recipient and maybe other informational data.

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The USAA domestic wire form doesn't have these fields -- just recipient's name and account number. I've successfully sent two domestic wires from USAA through Bangkok Bank NY to my BB account in Thailand. Since my BB account has a related physical address associated with it, this info is readily available should the IAT police inquire. The only data element missing from an IAT format is "purpose." But, USAA has an 'additional info' block, and I put "Purpose: living expenses." BB NY probably doesn't require this to process, but what the heck.

[stargazer9999]

"Have you tried  sending a domestic wire from Vanguard to BBL NY like I described in post #940?

just  thinking... The wire will be using ABA not Swift code and will be initiated in USD."

 

I haven't tried this Vanguard transfer yet.  I've been waiting for my first TransferWise BOA->BKK Bank Thailand test transfer to complete first.

 

I've been trying to sort out all the different options to figure out the best way to move forward on this.  I just found out about this recently and I guess most people have known about the problem since last July.  Vanguard isn't the only financial institution I may want to transfer money from.  The old BKK NYC transfer was ideal because you could just give any US financial institution their ACH # and expect the funds to be available in Thailand.  It was also easy to document the US and Thailand sides if immigration wanted to see that.

 

Now I'm trying to find the easiest way to reproduce something like that again.  'Pib' mentioned setting up a Transferwise Borderless Acct.  If that gives me an ACH # again that easily gets funds to Thailand that might be the way to go.  I can easily automate pulls from Vanguard or any other institution to put them anywhere with a new ACH #.  

 

If every financial institution in the States had an international SWIFT code transfer option instead of ACH #'s this would be easier.  

 

Right now I plan to put my missing December transfers into BOA and get them over here quickly to BKK Bank via Transferwise.  Meanwhile, I'm researching the best long-term solution.  Thanks for everyone's help.

 

[Thailand J]

My Vanguard-JPMorgan Chase-BBL BK  and IBKR-JPMorgan-BBK BK international wires  did not require "purpose of the transfer". I use my Thai address in all accounts.

You never know until you have tried ????

 

[Langsuan Man]

Fidelity,  SWIFT wires to Bangkok Bank in Thailand do not require a reason, the money just shows up minus the 200-500 Baht fee, depending on the amount