Democrat in war of words with red-shirt leader Natthawut

[webfact]

Democrat in war of words with red-shirt leader

By Thai PBS

 

 

Democrat party deputy spokesman Churith Laksanavisit hit back at red-shirt co-leader Natthawat Saikua over the latter’s accusation that the party was involved in the overthrow of Thai Rak Thai-led Thaksin government and the Pheu Thai-led government of Ms Yingluck Shinawatra by the military.

 

Churith insisted that the Democrat party had never supported or conspired with any group of people to seize power from a legitimate government “hence the party is definitely not a democratic turncoat that supports power seizure as alleged by Natthawut.”

 

He noted, in the previous two coups which toppled the Thaksin and Yingluck administrations, the coup makers blamed massive corruption by the two regimes as the cause of their power seizure, adding that the majority of the people agreed with the coup makers’ claim to justify the takeovers.

 

Full story: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/democrat-in-war-of-words-with-red-shirt-leader/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2018-07-30

[Samui Bodoh]

"...Churith insisted that the Democrat party had never supported or conspired with any group of people to seize power from a legitimate government “hence the party is definitely not a democratic turncoat that supports power seizure as alleged by Natthawut...”

 

Well, I find that hard to believe. Yes, it is simply my opinion, but I strongly suspect that it is shared by millions, literally.

 

Why not take a tour up north and ask folks there?

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

7 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"...Churith insisted that the Democrat party had never supported or conspired with any group of people to seize power from a legitimate government “hence the party is definitely not a democratic turncoat that supports power seizure as alleged by Natthawut...”

 

Well, I find that hard to believe. Yes, it is simply my opinion, but I strongly suspect that it is shared by millions, literally.

 

Why not take a tour up north and ask folks there?

 

 

An opinion shared by many people doesn't make it a truth.

Edited July 29, 2018 by FritsSikkink

[humbug]

junta media rolling out the fallacy articles in their hundreds at the moment

 

Democrat party trying to distance themselves from the fact that over decades they always came to power with junta help. No surprises if the democrat party are readying themselves to join the pro-junta rig election band of brothers.

[chainarong]

Opinions R like arsoles , everyone has one.

[yellowboat]

1 hour ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"...Churith insisted that the Democrat party had never supported or conspired with any group of people to seize power from a legitimate government “hence the party is definitely not a democratic turncoat that supports power seizure as alleged by Natthawut...”

 

Well, I find that hard to believe. Yes, it is simply my opinion, but I strongly suspect that it is shared by millions, literally.

 

Why not take a tour up north and ask folks there?

"Democrats" are actually on the record saying they are hated parts of Thailand therefore they do not campaign there.  

 

Abhisit was appointed by the last junta.  Not sure what this guy is trying to say.  There must be some sort of local political logic that does not translate outside of Thailand. 

 

Politically the country is a complete mess and will remain so for a very long time.

[robblok]

3 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"...Churith insisted that the Democrat party had never supported or conspired with any group of people to seize power from a legitimate government “hence the party is definitely not a democratic turncoat that supports power seizure as alleged by Natthawut...”

 

Well, I find that hard to believe. Yes, it is simply my opinion, but I strongly suspect that it is shared by millions, literally.

 

Why not take a tour up north and ask folks there?

 

 

Did you see any democrat politicians besides Suthep supporting the coup. Do remember the people came out protesting against the corruption of the YL government before any political parties encouraged them at all. They came because they could no longer stand the lies and corruption and later people like Suthep joined helping to bring down YL. But I did not see the likes of Abisith and others there.

 

Not sure if Suthep had already separated from the Democrats at that point the guy has left politics so many times its hard to keep track.

 

As for what the people in the north believe, just because they believe it does not make it the truth. People believed the earth was flat too. 

 

So what evidence do you have to support your opinion ? 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, yellowboat said:

"Democrats" are actually on the record saying they are hated parts of Thailand therefore they do not campaign there.  

 

Abhisit was appointed by the last junta.  Not sure what this guy is trying to say.  There must be some sort of local political logic that does not translate outside of Thailand. 

 

Politically the country is a complete mess and will remain so for a very long time.

How was Abisith appointed by the last junta ? I thought he formed a coalition with Newin .. not sure that is an appointment at all more like Newin switching sides for his own benefit. Sure the junta applied pressure but parties are free to form new coalitions if they want no laws against that. I won't argue that the army likes the Dems more then the Shins but they certainly havent appointed them. If you say helped i agree. 

[Srikcir]

17 minutes ago, robblok said:

Sure the junta applied pressure

A bit of an understatement.

17 minutes ago, robblok said:

If you say helped i agree. 

When pro-military surrogates banned pro-Thaksin PPP from the election, Abhisit won the election in Parliament by virtual default as the only remaining large party remaining that could control a coalition.

Thai Constitution Court chief admits decision to dissolve pro-Thaksin PPP was political
https://asiancorrespondent.com/2013/03/thai-constitution-court-chief-admits-decision-to-dissolve-the-pro-thaksin-ppp-was-political/#OqH24OKHOj5jl6Yc.99

Once again we're beginning to see a repeat for the next election with the EC repeatedly warning to disqualify the PTP (successor to the PPP) from the election.

[Charlie1]

"...Churith insisted that the Democrat party had never supported or conspired with any group of people to seize power from a legitimate government..."

 

Of course , they have their men for the dirty work, like Suthep, etc.

[Charlie1]

30 minutes ago, robblok said:

Did you see any democrat politicians besides Suthep supporting the coup. Do remember the people came out protesting against the corruption of the YL government before any political parties encouraged them at all. They came because they could no longer stand the lies and corruption and later people like Suthep joined helping to bring down YL. But I did not see the likes of Abisith and others there.

 

Not sure if Suthep had already separated from the Democrats at that point the guy has left politics so many times its hard to keep track.

 

As for what the people in the north believe, just because they believe it does not make it the truth. People believed the earth was flat too. 

 

So what evidence do you have to support your opinion ? 

The evidence is so obvious, you must be blind not to see it. Just watch the last 20-or-so military coups, where always the military protects the elites and gives a shit about the masses. There you have your evidence. And it doesn't matter who was wearing a yellow shirt at what time, those are stupid details.

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

A bit of an understatement.

When pro-military surrogates banned pro-Thaksin PPP from the election, Abhisit won the election in Parliament by virtual default as the only remaining large party remaining that could control a coalition.

Thai Constitution Court chief admits decision to dissolve pro-Thaksin PPP was political
https://asiancorrespondent.com/2013/03/thai-constitution-court-chief-admits-decision-to-dissolve-the-pro-thaksin-ppp-was-political/#OqH24OKHOj5jl6Yc.99

Once again we're beginning to see a repeat for the next election with the EC repeatedly warning to disqualify the PTP (successor to the PPP) from the election.

That is different as appointing a party... Last time I checked the English language to appoint means something different. It means that the one in power give you a job that they are entitled to give. The junta certainly did not appoint the goverment.

 

As for the EC wanting to ban the PTP, they are breaking the law with having their leaders meat with Thaksin and let him decide politics. Remember the new law, they should just break with Thaksin to be safe.. but Thaksin will never allow that the PTP is his private party and moneymaker.

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, Charlie1 said:

The evidence is so obvious, you must be blind not to see it. Just watch the last 20-or-so military coups, where always the military protects the elites and gives a shit about the masses. There you have your evidence. And it doesn't matter who was wearing a yellow shirt at what time, those are stupid details.

So you have no evidence of direct involvement. 

 

Your right though that the military protects the elites but that is not the same as involvement of the Democrats.

[humbug]

hey guys i am noticing the yellow shirt youtube posters are trying to constantly deflect attention away from the actual thread. Is it possible not to reply to them and just ignore that way these threads can stay on topic without the constant diatribe conspiracy theories

[tomta]

As always, Robblokk, you are concentrating on form over substance, the twigs over the forest, the shadow over the reality.

 

Missing the point. As you always have. From the days when you welcomed the coup as an antidote to corruption. Your judgement then was as bad as it is now.

[baboon]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Churith insisted that the Democrat party had never supported or conspired with any group of people to seize power from a legitimate government

So who exactly was egging the 'military' on - The People's Front of Judea?

[yellowboat]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

How was Abisith appointed by the last junta ? I thought he formed a coalition with Newin .. not sure that is an appointment at all more like Newin switching sides for his own benefit. Sure the junta applied pressure but parties are free to form new coalitions if they want no laws against that. I won't argue that the army likes the Dems more then the Shins but they certainly havent appointed them. If you say helped i agree. 

Much bad behavior in politics is legal in Thailand, and men with guns applying pressure all looks to be the making of an appointed shill, a proxies for the army.   From a Thai perspective, you may be correct, but from the outside, he looked to be a concubine of the army. 

[robblok]

11 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

Much bad behavior in politics is legal in Thailand, and men with guns applying pressure all looks to be the making of an appointed shill, a proxies for the army.   From a Thai perspective, you may be correct, but from the outside, he looked to be a concubine of the army. 

We are in Thailand so the Thai perspective counts. Anyway its quite clear that the army helped to make this happen but it was fully legal. No way you can call this an appointment you know the difference. 

[robblok]

21 minutes ago, tomta said:

As always, Robblokk, you are concentrating on form over substance, the twigs over the forest, the shadow over the reality.

 

Missing the point. As you always have. From the days when you welcomed the coup as an antidote to corruption. Your judgement then was as bad as it is now.

My judgement was bad in hindsight, and we know what they say about hindsight. But the coup did uncover a 33 billion corruption scandal in the rice program. So I was certainly right there. But I was totally wrong with how long the coup guys would stay in power. Far longer then in previous coups in recent history. 

[tomta]

Your judgement was bad because it was focused on a reading of Thai politics that was completely devoid of historical insight, on a misunderstanding of democracy as a once and for all fixit device rather than as something that is always imperfect and always needs patience and work, and on a naive gullibility that swallowed the con-job promises of criminals like Suthep and Prayuth. 

[seajae]

it doesnt matter whether it is reds/yellows/ptp or dems, they are all as bad as each other and they are all corrupt in that they will do and say whatever makes them more money. No one group is innocent, these groups would not be able to even operate in any western countries, unfortunately in Thailand it is accepted that if you run the country you can get away with murder. These groups are wherever the money is, none are there for the people, only themselves

[robblok]

35 minutes ago, tomta said:

Your judgement was bad because it was focused on a reading of Thai politics that was completely devoid of historical insight, on a misunderstanding of democracy as a once and for all fixit device rather than as something that is always imperfect and always needs patience and work, and on a naive gullibility that swallowed the con-job promises of criminals like Suthep and Prayuth. 

You seem to swallow the promises of criminals like Thaksin.. so what does that mean for you ?

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, seajae said:

it doesnt matter whether it is reds/yellows/ptp or dems, they are all as bad as each other and they are all corrupt in that they will do and say whatever makes them more money. No one group is innocent, these groups would not be able to even operate in any western countries, unfortunately in Thailand it is accepted that if you run the country you can get away with murder. These groups are wherever the money is, none are there for the people, only themselves

Agree 100% maybe future forward is better.. we will see. 

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, tomta said:

As always, Robblokk, you are concentrating on form over substance, the twigs over the forest, the shadow over the reality.

 

Missing the point. As you always have. From the days when you welcomed the coup as an antidote to corruption. Your judgement then was as bad as it is now.

 

Apart from criticizing Roblok, which he can decide how to respond, do you actually have any valid comment to make in addition to your pure waffle aimed at deflecting Rob's comments.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Baerboxer

[Baerboxer]

52 minutes ago, tomta said:

Your judgement was bad because it was focused on a reading of Thai politics that was completely devoid of historical insight, on a misunderstanding of democracy as a once and for all fixit device rather than as something that is always imperfect and always needs patience and work, and on a naive gullibility that swallowed the con-job promises of criminals like Suthep and Prayuth. 

 

The imperfections of democracy. particularly in it's infancy are ripe for the manipulations of crooked politicians who rob the country to enrich themselves and try hard to create a scenario where they can never actually be removed. 

 

Agree?

[trainman34014]

4 hours ago, yellowboat said:

"Democrats" are actually on the record saying they are hated parts of Thailand therefore they do not campaign there.  

 

Abhisit was appointed by the last junta.  Not sure what this guy is trying to say.  There must be some sort of local political logic that does not translate outside of Thailand. 

 

Politically the country is a complete mess and will remain so for a very long time.

Not just a mess Politically; a big mess in just about every way and one would struggle to find a way to start putting it right !

[Whip]

6 hours ago, yellowboat said:

"Democrats" are actually on the record saying they are hated parts of Thailand therefore they do not campaign there.  

 

Abhisit was appointed by the last junta.  Not sure what this guy is trying to say.  There must be some sort of local political logic that does not translate outside of Thailand. 

 

Politically the country is a complete mess and will remain so for a very long time.

Yes, but it works

[ramrod711]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

He noted, in the previous two coups which toppled the Thaksin and Yingluck administrations, the coup makers blamed massive corruption by the two regimes as the cause of their power seizure, adding that the majority of the people agreed with the coup makers’ claim to justify the takeovers.

I suppose you could discount what the man says, but he's still here, unlike the leaders and some other members of the toppled "alphabet" parties.

[candide]

6 hours ago, yellowboat said:

"Democrats" are actually on the record saying they are hated parts of Thailand therefore they do not campaign there.  

 

Abhisit was appointed by the last junta.  Not sure what this guy is trying to say.  There must be some sort of local political logic that does not translate outside of Thailand. 

 

Politically the country is a complete mess and will remain so for a very long time.

Reciprocally, Abhisit made sure Prayuth would be appointed as army chief in 2010.

https://asiancorrespondent.com/2010/04/is-the-thai-army-and-prem-holding-back-abhisit/#KbiYpcWOvlTyFmeE.97

[jayboy]

Did you see any democrat politicians besides Suthep supporting the coup. Do remember the people came out protesting against the corruption of the YL government before any political parties encouraged them at all. They came because they could no longer stand the lies and corruption and later people like Suthep joined helping to bring down YL. But I did not see the likes of Abisith and others there.

 
So what evidence do you have to support your opinion ? 

Clearly some are so consumed by lies and prejudice that they ignore the reality.




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