Turned away at Bangkok airport

[Rich8483]

On Sunday the 29th of july I attempted to enter Thailand from Phnom Penh. I had been in thailand for several years on a combination of non-O visas with work permits, tourist visas and non-exempt stamps. This time I went to Cambodia in order to receive a non-exempt stamp when I returned. The immigration officer saw that I had done a quick turnaround and called her superior who pulled me aside. They demanded to see my return flight ticket which I did not have. So they told me that they wouldn't allow me in. My Thai gf was with me and attempted to plead my case but they were not in a listening mood. They told her to leave and then put me on a flight back to Phnom Penh. 

 

Admittedly I had violated the spirit of the law so I'm not going to waste time bemoaning their actions. However, they made an official note in my passport that I didn't see until I arrived back in PP and got my passport back from the airline. As it was in Thai I could not read it but the Cambodian immigration guy said I should get a new passport in order to remove it. He didn't go into any more detail but was kind enough to allow me back in. That's where I am now.

 

I don't mind having to spend time outside of thailand but I would like to go other places. And eventually try to return in a few months.

But I'm worried about what that note might say. I can see it says they turned me away on the 29th and has the flight number I came in on, but what it says beyond that is a mystery. I can't find anyone here to translate it for me. I'm afraid it says something that will prevent me from getting into other countries.

Does anyone have a similar experience with this type of note/stamp?

 

[sananeamk0715]

Upload picture here I can ask my Thai friends.

[ubonjoe]

You probably got the standard denial of entry stamp.

Here is a recent one that was done at Poi Pet.

In parenthesis on the 4th line is the clause of section 12 of the immigration act that was used for the denial of entry. Some can show 2 clauses in parenthesis. On that one it was for not having proof of sufficient funds to stay in the country.

 

[elviajero]

If you post a picture of the stamp we can let you know. Denied entries aren’t always processed the same way. A simple denied entry (not formal deportation) shouldn’t stop you entering other countries. 

 

If you get a Tourist Visa you will probably be able to enter now. They especially don’t like people staying long term (back to back) using visa exemption.

[BritTim]

Ignore what Cambodian immigration says about a new passport. It will not expunge the record of your denied entry from immigration's system. Get a tourist visa, and enter Thailand via a land crossing other than Poipet. You will be OK.  Note that, if you cannot get a tourist visa in Phnom Penh, the reliable solution at the current time is to make your way to Savannakhet. Laos

[Rich8483]

I appreciate all the responses. And eisfeld is correct, I meant visa-exempt.

That said, attached is a photo of what they left in my passport.

 

[Boycie]

Top right = Thai Air Asia

Third line = No have money for living?

Bottom = Signature of Immigration Officer

 

Did they also ask to see 20,000baht cash as well as a return ticket?

Edited July 31, 2018 by Boycie

[Briggsy]

Exacerbating Factors :

1. Lots of previous tourist visas and visa exempts

2. Full-ish passport

3. Flying in to Bangkok from nearby countries (Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia, Myanmar, HK, Singapore)

4. No visa i.e. attempting a visa exempt entry.

5. Quick turnarounds e.g. flying to Malaysia and coming back the same day.

 

Solutions to reduce the probability of denial of entry for tourist visa holders :

1. Renew passport more frequently than is strictly required. A passport renewal costs less than being bounced back to Phnom Penh incurring all those extra costs.

2. Always have a tourist visa, at the very least.

3. Avoid flying in to Bangkok from nearby countries. Use land borders if possible.

4. Avoid out-ins by plane. Do them at land borders but not Poi Pet.

5. Choose a male Immigration Officer if possible.

6. Have a flight ticket out if possible.

7. Carry 20,000 Baht or equivalent in cash. This no longer seems to work though.

8. Spend some time outside Thailand in other countries.

 

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Rich8483 said:

I appreciate all the responses. And eisfeld is correct, I meant visa-exempt.

That said, attached is a photo of what they left in my passport.

 

You were denied entry under section 12.2 of the immigration act. Basically you haven’t demonstrated, to immigration, the means to live long term in the country. 

 

It’s a simple denial stamp which shouldn’t cause you problems elsewhere. You were not formally deported.

Edited July 31, 2018 by elviajero

[Rich8483]

Again, I appreciate the feedback to no end.

This passport is less than 2 years old and only about 6 pages are full. Including stamps from Chinese, Japanese and Malaysian immigration so that's weird that they would say it was full-ish.

Also, I had more than 25,000 baht in my pocket along with several hundred US dollars in case they asked me about money but no one did. Except the Cambodian immigration guy when I was returned to Phnom Penh. So it's strange that they used the "unable to support himself" thing.

#5 on Briggsy's list of solutions would seem to apply here. Both the officer at the arrival desk and the one in the immigration office who shut me down were women. 

 

So, if I wait another week or so then head to Laos to get a tourist visa I may be able to re-enter?

 

[darrendsd]

They should have asked to see the 20k but even if they did it wouldn't have mattered if you had shown it to them, once their mind is made up they are not letting you in that's it

 

You could have offered them a "incentive" to let you in, I had to do this is at a land border (not Poipet) a few months ago but it is always difficult to know how to handle the situation

 

Take the advice you have been offered above by Briggsy above and you should be ok

 

So, if I wait another week or so then head to Laos to get a tourist visa I may be able to re-enter?

 

Yes but on this occasion enter via a land border, personally I would get a TV at Vientianne and enter back via Nong Khai if this is feasible for you for you to do

 

 

 

 

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Rich8483 said:

Also, I had more than 25,000 baht in my pocket along with several hundred US dollars in case they asked me about money but no one did. Except the Cambodian immigration guy when I was returned to Phnom Penh. So it's strange that they used the "unable to support himself" thing.

Having cash on you is a requirement under 12.9 of the immigration act. Anyone, visa or not, should carry the minimum amount of cash specified by regulations.

 

You were denied entry under section 12.2. That goes beyond having cash in your pocket. They are effectively saying that you’ve stayed in the country a long time without demonstrating the means of living, like a job, income, cash in the bank. 

 

If you accept and understand that the reason should become less strange.

[RickG16]

I'll be coming in next month by air from Europe, on a visa exempt. Are there really any worries about carrying cash / evidence of return flights in this case? 

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, RickG16 said:

I'll be coming in next month by air from Europe, on a visa exempt. Are there really any worries about carrying cash / evidence of return flights in this case? 

Whether arriving visa exempt by air at all is prudent depends on the history of your previous visits to Thailand over the last three years, and especially the last 12 months. Definitely carry cash. It is easy to do, and eliminates one possible cause of trouble. Return/onward flights are unlikely to be a factor with immigration, but your airline might insist on one before allowing you to check in.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, RickG16 said:

I'll be coming in next month by air from Europe, on a visa exempt. Are there really any worries about carrying cash / evidence of return flights in this case? 

As long as you don't have a recent history of long back to back 'tourist' stays you shouldn't have any problem. Immigration will only ask to see cash and flights when they are looking at possibly denying entry, and they only tend to do that to long term tourists.

[RickG16]

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

As long as you don't have a recent history of long back to back 'tourist' stays you shouldn't have any problem. Immigration will only ask to see cash and flights when they are looking at possibly denying entry, and they only tend to do that to long term tourists.

I have 3 tourist visas in my passport going back to May 2017 + a couple of visa exempt land entries.....

[gk10002000]

marry the woman and get a marriage stay extension.  buy an elite visa and be good for 5 years.  Note you can still obtain work permits on a marriage

[RickG16]

1 hour ago, RickG16 said:

I have 3 tourist visas in my passport going back to May 2017 + a couple of visa exempt land entries.....

Any view on this @ubonjoe? 

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

Any view on this @ubonjoe? 

Not much more than has already been said.

But I think it would be best to get a single entry tourist visa before starting your trip. That would be better than entering visa exempt for more than one reason.

[overherebc]

13 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not much more than has already been said.

But I think it would be best to get a single entry tourist visa before starting your trip. That would be better than entering visa exempt for more than one reason.

I would add a print out of a hotel booking and a cheap flight booking to say Vietnam datred maybe for around 20 days after arrival.

Better to have and not need than need and not have.

[seancbk]

17 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Exacerbating Factors :

1. Lots of previous tourist visas and visa exempts

2. Full-ish passport

3. Flying in to Bangkok from nearby countries (Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia, Myanmar, HK, Singapore)

4. No visa i.e. attempting a visa exempt entry.

5. Quick turnarounds e.g. flying to Malaysia and coming back the same day.

 

Solutions to reduce the probability of denial of entry for tourist visa holders :

1. Renew passport more frequently than is strictly required. A passport renewal costs less than being bounced back to Phnom Penh incurring all those extra costs.

2. Always have a tourist visa, at the very least.

3. Avoid flying in to Bangkok from nearby countries. Use land borders if possible.

4. Avoid out-ins by plane. Do them at land borders but not Poi Pet.

5. Choose a male Immigration Officer if possible.

6. Have a flight ticket out if possible.

7. Carry 20,000 Baht or equivalent in cash. This no longer seems to work though.

8. Spend some time outside Thailand in other countries.

 

 

Regarding your solutions.  Flying in and out is much better than using land borders.   Also why only use Male IOs?  I always try to pick the women.  They are much more amenable to a nice smile.

[RickG16]

9 minutes ago, overherebc said:

I would add a print out of a hotel booking and a cheap flight booking to say Vietnam datred maybe for around 20 days after arrival.

Better to have and not need than need and not have.

I agree but have you ever been asked to show an onwards flight booking when arriving on a visa exempt by air... From Europe / another long haul destination?

[overherebc]

10 minutes ago, RickG16 said:

I agree but have you ever been asked to show an onwards flight booking when arriving on a visa exempt by air... From Europe / another long haul destination?

Not myself because I have a multi entry 1 year visa but I have seen others being asked in front of me in the queue. It's just my honest suggestion. A cheap flight to Vietnam you throw away is cheaper than a turn around at the Imm' desk.

No-one really knows what sparks questions from any IO so covering as many bases as you can can't really go wrong.

Edited August 1, 2018 by overherebc

[Scott]

Off-topic post reported and removed.  

 

[Briggsy]

 

1 hour ago, seancbk said:

Flying in and out is much better than using land borders. 

The experiences of many, the OP and indeed myself is that flying in from local countries such as Laos and Cambodia has the potential for refusal far greater than a land entry at, say, Nong Khai. So, I don't understand your comment here.

 

1 hour ago, seancbk said:

 Also why only use Male IOs?  I always try to pick the women.  They are much more amenable to a nice smile.

We will have to agree to differ on this one. The goal is to get the entry stamp. My view is unchanged when one focuses on the goal.

[gamini]

I dont understand why people complain all the time about problems thay have trying to stay in Thailand. Most countries limit stays to 6 months a year. 

[sikishrory]

When you arrive and get the 30 day visa exempt you are supposed to have an onward flight.

I would have thought this is pretty straightforward as to why you were refused entry.

Am I missing something?

The only strange thing is that they have written you "don't have the means to sustain life" on the third line in your picture.

[Briggsy]

3 minutes ago, sikishrory said:

When you arrive and get the 30 day visa exempt you are supposed to have an onward flight.

I would have thought this is pretty straightforward as to why you were refused entry.

Am I missing something?

The only strange thing is that they have written you "don't have the means to sustain life" on the third line in your picture.

A more intelligible translation would be "no financial means" or "no means to live from". This is because a visa exempt or a tourist visa does not permit work in Thailand.

 

Your comment about the return flight does not hold true. If the OP were refused entry for not having a return flight, this would be stated. But the stated reason is "no financial means". In addition. there have been numerous reports of people with return flights being refused entry. So, yes, you are missing something. The thing you are missing is that Immigration at the two Bangkok airports is filtering out some of the people who are spending a long time in Thailand on visa exempt entries and tourist visas. Then they are using the section of the law regarding lacking financial means to justify, legally, the refusal of entry.

[sikishrory]

33 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

A more intelligible translation would be "no financial means" or "no means to live from". This is because a visa exempt or a tourist visa does not permit work in Thailand.

 

Your comment about the return flight does not hold true. If the OP were refused entry for not having a return flight, this would be stated. But the stated reason is "no financial means". In addition. there have been numerous reports of people with return flights being refused entry. So, yes, you are missing something. The thing you are missing is that Immigration at the two Bangkok airports is filtering out some of the people who are spending a long time in Thailand on visa exempt entries and tourist visas. Then they are using the section of the law regarding lacking financial means to justify, legally, the refusal of entry.

I don't know what the point of your reply is. You can't enter Thailand on 30 day visa exempt entry. They have asked him to show his flight out and he didn't have one and was sent on his way.

The translation does not mention finance but "means to sustain life" which given the nature of Thai/English translation is the same as what you have written. So i'm not sure what your trying to prove there. Although this obviously is referring to having the required funds to support yourself the word ปัจจัย only refers direct to money when used by monks or in relation to monkhood.

He mentions he was not asked to show the required money but was asked to show his return ticket.

And yes at the root of it it is just them filtering out people.

Edited August 1, 2018 by sikishrory

[overherebc]

8 minutes ago, sikishrory said:

I don't know what the point of your reply is. You can't enter Thailand on 30 day visa exempt entry. They have asked him to show his flight out and he didn't have one and was sent on his way.

The translation does not mention finance but "means to sustain life" which given the nature of Thai/English translation is the same as what you have written. So i'm not sure what your trying to prove there. The word

Of course you can enter on a 30 day VE.

The problem people have is because the do it either back to back too often or have short breaks only between each entry.

Yes it's legal but is now obviously frowned upon.