"Gardening loving Brit" electrocuted while mowing the lawn in Khon Kaen

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, Crossy said:

Indeed it is, you may know it as a GFCI, ELCB or one of a myriad of other acronyms dependent upon where in the world you originate. Generally in Thailand it's known as a "Safe-T-Cut" which is actually a brand name.

 

Do you have one? Look in your electrical panel for a breaker with a "Test" button, no test button = no RCD. Go and look now!

 

If you don't have one I strongly recommend that you get one installed, all the big box stores sell them and most will install for you too. It may well save your life as it probably would this poor chap.

 

Well said Crossy, ours is called an RCB (Residual Circuit Breaker) here in the LOS, and I know it cuts the power off when something goes wrong, like my finger (feeling around in the dark) for the powerpoint to plug in the lamp, too lazy to turn the light switch on, finger too close to the edge of the metal of the 2 things that go into the powerpoint, grateful to be alive, not a nice feeling having that electrical shock running up your arm.

 

  

[RocketDog]

6 hours ago, Rayscape said:

Yes a cut-out would of course be great! Has anybody actually seen the cabling that is running down streets to most places?? You are lucky to walk down any street, without having to dodge a live wire hanging down. I have also seen lots of wiring that has been installed by a professional Thai Electrician!!! Ha!! This poor guy did not have a chance. Just recently a father and son were electrocuted while working on the pool filter system. One man died peeing on a lamp post. I have been in showers, where I could feel small current running. Rubber gloves, rubber boots and a grounding strap attached to your foot at all times, is the only solution. Good luck.

Grounding strap on your foot?

I assume you are joking.

A grounding strap will assure that all the energy available will be routed from the source directly through your body to ground.

 

Better strategy is to float in the air during your shower, providing no path to ground at all!

[Different]

Everyday I take a shower I fear getting electrocuted by the water heater, imagine living like that.

[RocketDog]

3 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

I`m not sure a safety cut out switch would have saved this guy`s life.

 

The devices are designed to cut out if an electrical appliance is on overload. Placing a finger or thumb on a live terminal would not had caused an overload, but would have just diverted the circuit through his body, that appears to have happened in this case.

 

I use a similar electric mower and very aware of the trailing electrical cable and not to run over it with the blade. 

 

Sad for the old guy, R.I.P.

I think you are confusing simple circuit breakers (same as the old fuses) which protect against overload current regardless of where that current goes.

 

RCD devices, called GFI ground fault detectors in the USA, actually contain internal circuitry that monitors BOTH source and return lines from the power source, the two wires from the 220V power source that are not the ground line . If the current sourced from the hot lead LINE does not equal the current returning on the return line NEUTRAL, the the breaker opens instantly...

 

The theory is that if the two cuurent flows don't match (within very close tolerance such as 30 milliamps), then some or all of the current is finding a return path somewhere it shouldn't, such as through your body to ground!

 

As somebody else mentioned, the trip threshold was chosen as a compromise between nuisance trips and the current level through your body in a fault condition that does not cause heart failure.

 

For this reason it is far easier to survive a shock that doesn't flow through your body in a path crossing your chest, such as hand to grounded foot. You may feel a shock if your finger touches one side of the line  and part of your finger touches a ground point such as the metal (grounded hopefully) part of the power outlet when plugging something in an outlet. This is true because MOST of the current will only flow though your finger to ground, not across your heart.

 

I post this not as criticism, but as general knowledge of forum readers.

[RocketDog]

3 hours ago, Crossy said:

To everyone reading this thread, please take a moment to peruse the pinned topics in the Electrical Forum and ask questions there. It will cost you nothing.

 

A few minutes educating yourself could save your life or that of a loved one.

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/191-the-electrical-forum/

 

Electrics isn't rocket science, (almost) nothing is beyond the scope of an intelligent DIYer who is happy to ask questions and take advice.

 

This is Thai rocket science. There is no way in heaven or on earth I would be going anywhere near that ?

 

 

I certainly get your point Crossy, thanks for the video. What a hoot!

 

Still, this looks much safer than riding my motorcycle in Cha-am any day of the week and twice safer than riding at night.

[Thian]

I've been searching a lot but even couldn't find good extension cords like we have in Europe. Also i have never seen good ones at all in Thailand, they all use the cheapest ones where they have to stick naked wires in the outlet to power the thing.

 

 

[Elkski]

I guess as a learning experience for others this man's death may not be in vain.   I just keep thinking of sweaty salty skin and damp grass.   There must have been a dangerous wire issue he was attending to. Let's all check our extension cords and use those ground wires.  Plus they do sell point of use GFCI outlets that plug inline that would have been a lifesaver.  

 

I'm not sure if this is for 220 v but it's an example. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00SJ7Z7DQ/ref=sspa_mw_detail_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[sambum]

11 hours ago, dotpoom said:

I guess and RCD is a cut out of sorts....but I think it is always helpful not to assume that all the readers are familiar with the "codes" when writing on a subject as serious as this one. There are so many different trades and professions out there ......apart from our own one (if we have one that is).

  My sincerest condolences to the wife, family and loved ones of the deceased.

A sore point of mine for a long time - put the full name in brackets beside it the first time you use it in a post is just common courtesy, but I've been told to "get with it"  or told that I'm an "old f**t" because I don't know a lot of these new abbreviations. I know what "SWALK" and "BURMA" mean though!  

[Sheryl]

Cost of saving a life, 2,500 Baht https://www.thianthong.com/safe-t-cut-rcbo-special-a-series-r20.html

I know I go on about these every time someone dies needlessly in their shower / pool / garden, but hopefully the message will get across to all our members.
 

Crossy, where exactly does this go? Does it replace existing breaker ir get added into the line somewhere? Is it just one for the whole house or does there need to be one for each fuse?

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Elkski]

I'm sure Crossy or another sparky will chime in soon.. here is the half English version of the saf-t-cut website... it appears it is a Thai company.. 

http://www.safe-t-cut.com/en/

 

It appears the image above is a 2 pole version.   Interesting in that you have that dial that adjusts the tripping current.  They make  whole house units also with numbers of slots. 

http://www.safe-t-cut.com/en/products/consumer-unit.html

[Crossy]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Crossy, where exactly does this go? Does it replace existing breaker ir get added into the line somewhere? Is it just one for the whole house or does there need to be one for each fuse?

The unit illustrated goes between the meter and your existing main switch. You may be able to replace your main switch with an RCBO for a neater job.

 

Post some photos of your existing breaker box, preferably in a new thread in the Electrical forum and we can advise accordingly.

 

[Crossy]

7 hours ago, Different said:

Everyday I take a shower I fear getting electrocuted by the water heater, imagine living like that.

You don't have to. A few simple checks and a few hundred Baht will make you safe, even in a rental home.

[Crossy]

7 hours ago, Thian said:

I've been searching a lot but even couldn't find good extension cords like we have in Europe. Also i have never seen good ones at all in Thailand, they all use the cheapest ones where they have to stick naked wires in the outlet to power the thing.

The best extension leads are the ones you make yourself. Decent quality cable, plugs and traily outlets are available, they just don't seem to get assembled.

 

[Thian]

10 minutes ago, Crossy said:

The best extension leads are the ones you make yourself. Decent quality cable, plugs and traily outlets are available, they just don't seem to get assembled.

 

In Holland i had one with a replaced connector which was just done properly, no tape or anything used. But it didn't get passed safety inspection which pro's must have. It has to be melted on the cable in the factory so you can pull the connector out by the cable (which is not recommended by the way but it's a safety feature).

Also when it's melted on the cable it's waterproof.

 

But it's harsh when a bulldozer drives over your cord which is ruined after that so you have to buy a new one for 100 euro or so. It's the law though.

[AsianAtHeart]

17 hours ago, Crossy said:

Yes, I know the little RCBOs, excellent value and ideal for protecting your water heater. BUT, they are not rated for use as a main breaker (hence the 10mm² max cable)

Is there a safe way to protect a water heater on a circuit with occasional full-220V transient power on the ground?

 

I'm in a backwards district where the power utility company has some issues with wiring their transformers, and we have power on the earth phase at times.  You would think such impossible, but it's not.  I had an American electrical engineer check out our power problem and he traced it back to the pole.  He said the power company had mis-wired its transformer.  Oddly, the ground-wire voltage is transient, and seems more likely to occur during an electrical storm for unknown reasons.

 

As a result of such power issues, I have simply dared not install a water heater at all.  In cold season taking cold showers is not so nice though.

[dragula]

So still one thinking that he in UK. your not look at the power pole, pull the tape of one line hanging if it has it, then stick your lips on it. tell what you think?

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by dragula

[DieterWiehe]

21 hours ago, dotpoom said:

I guess and RCD is a cut out of sorts....but I think it is always helpful not to assume that all the readers are familiar with the "codes" when writing on a subject as serious as this one. There are so many different trades and professions out there ......apart from our own one (if we have one that is).

  My sincerest condolences to the wife, family and loved ones of the deceased.

a well know devise here is called Safe-T-Cut an ELCB (earth leakage circuit breaker ) may have saved his live .

My sincerest condolences to the wife, family and loved ones of the deceased.

Edited August 3, 2018 by DieterWiehe
wrong spell

[dragula]

every few month there guy from UK die this way, working on pool pump, death count 2. trim weeds on front house, death count 1, cut grass, death 1count. 4 this year all from UK, So I think that the common factor is UK. So UK people be more careful about electricity.

Edited August 3, 2018 by dragula

[bluesofa]

6 minutes ago, dragula said:

every few month there guy from UK die this way, working on pool pump, death count 2. trim weeds on front house, death count 1, cut grass, death 1count. 4 this year all from UK, So I think that the conman factor is UK. So UK people be more careful about electricity.

conman factor? Are you thinking grift or grass here?

 

[phuketsub]

15 hours ago, bluesofa said:

I just had to look that up. OK, a weed whacker is what I'd refer to as a 'strimmer'. Initially I though it might be a euphemism for something more deviant!

 

That's pretty much what everyone in New England called it when I was growing up there...Anyway, I certainly wouldn't want to be done in while weed whacking!

[Chaichara]

This should never have happened. This is what  comes of having  a house built by  an incompetent  contractor or their electrician. Always demand that  home electrics are installed to  Western standards when buying  or having a house built. Even houses on  modern estates (developments) often do  not  have them. These RCCB/GFCI work as described (own experience!). Absolutely  essential  if you  have a pond or swimming  pool. There are miniature DIN-rail  ones that  fit  inside a standard consumer unit.

See more at  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device

My  condolences.

[billd766]

22 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

This gardening hating Brit also cut his grass yesterday with a similar setup when your numbers up its up RIP?? 

 

This grass hating Brit did some this morning using a 2 stroke petrol mower while wearing a long sleeved shirt, camo pattern working trousers, rubber boots with steel toecaps, leather gloves and safety glasses.

 

I may look stupid wearing that get up but it is safer than the way many Thais do it.

 

 

[billd766]

22 hours ago, Crossy said:

Quite possibly. The limits (30mA, 30ms, 30V) were chosen as a compromise that would minimise nuisance trips whilst protecting 90% of the population. The elderly and very young have a much lower tolerance.

 

BUT. It would likely have tripped as soon as he clipped the cord, before he started looking for the problem.

 

 

My Safe-T-cut has 5, 15 and 25 ma settings plus direct and I just tested it after I read your post. 

 

It works.

[billd766]

21 hours ago, Aforek said:

I have this one ( bottom , on the left ) 

 

no sign of RCD; not good ?  If I buy the Safe T cut, the " chang " will be able to replace it ? 

 

I have a similar breaker box made by Siemens but a bit larger with more RCDs and my Safe-T-Cut comes in before it. The mains from the meter comes into the Safe-T-Cut and out to the breaker box. 

 

The breaker box has a ground to a 2 metre copper rod outside.

[billd766]

20 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

This had me go down to the cellar and look for my test button. It looks like I have three, on the right side of the board, seemingly one each for the row of circuit breakers to the left of it. I pressed the little blue button for the top one, labelled 11 in blue, and it tripped.

 

 

Do you have single phase or three phase to your house?

 

If it is 3 phase it would probably account for 3 banks of switches.

[billd766]

19 hours ago, bluesofa said:

But why choose 60Hz too?

 

IIRC 110 volts and 60 Hz is the USA standard.

17 hours ago, GTgrizzly said:

I wouldn't live in a house without an RCD, mine has saved my butt quite a number of times

Getting electrocuted is not much fun, I have had a few hits over the years and I gotta tell you ..it bloody hurts big time

 

Me too.

[greenchair]

On 8/2/2018 at 1:39 PM, Crossy said:

Cost of saving a life, 2,500 Baht https://www.thianthong.com/safe-t-cut-rcbo-special-a-series-r20.html

I know I go on about these every time someone dies needlessly in their shower / pool / garden, but hopefully the message will get across to all our members.

 

Oh thank you for that lifesaving advice. 

[bandito]

On ‎8‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 12:56 PM, Crossy said:

RIP because of no RCD ?

 

We have a petrol mower so no issue there, but I've lost count of the number of times the hired-help has cut the cord of the hedge trimmer and tripped the RCD.

 

It used to be a common cause of death in the UK until RCDs were mandated by law as they are supposed to be in Thailand.

 What's an RCD?

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, bandito said:

 What's an RCD?

 

[bandito]

4 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Thank you Crossy.