"Gardening loving Brit" electrocuted while mowing the lawn in Khon Kaen

[VocalNeal]

On 8/2/2018 at 2:07 PM, kannot said:

I wouldnt rely on the "big  stores"  staff whomever  they employ,

Call SafeTcut direct they also install.

[Samuel Smith]

 

Is this OK?  No "test" button, but I thought they trip if a problem.

[Crossy]

20 minutes ago, Samuel Smith said:

Is this OK?  No "test" button, but I thought they trip if a problem.

Just an MCB, touch a live wire like our victim, you die.

 

Schneider / Square-D make RCBO main switches which directly replace your 63A incoming breaker.

 

QO263C10RCBO30T should be the correct type.

[Samuel Smith]

17 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Just an MCB, touch a live wire like our victim, you die.

 

Schneider / Square-D make RCBO main switches which directly replace your 63A incoming breaker.

 

QO263C10RCBO30T should be the correct type.

Thanks for that.  Time to get it sorted.

[dragula]

My husband has a electric wheel chair, what best way to keep him from shock? I have put it in shower with it still no shock, lucky?

if I get one from china think it less safe?

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by dragula

[ttrd]

5 minutes ago, dragula said:

My husband has a electric wheel chair, what best way to keep him from shock? I have put it in shower with it still no shock, lucky?

if I get one from china think it less safe?

 

Electric non cable items goes on 12-24v batteries and this is low voltage and not any danger for humans - It is With China as for Thailand - Safety First....

Edited August 3, 2018 by ttrd

[Mike R in CM]

RCD's and/or RCBO's are essential especially on mains socket lines but the other half of the equation is a very good earth or ground connection. I recently replaced the main breaker box and insisted on a 16mm sq. ground cable from the box to three 2.4M copper earth rods placed 1M apart and connected to each other by 16mm sq. bare copper cable. Luckily the second electrician we tried knew what I was on about but the first one that came to the house didn't have a clue!!

[bristolgeoff]

the thais must think only farangs would  mow  a lawn in the village.i think most don,t even bother from what i see.

[DineshR]

Hello,

 

Would appreciate some guidance.

 

I have a similar circuit breaker box as Samuel Smith above for all the individual circuits such as lighting, plug points, water heaters etc but the main breaker switch I think, has a test button as shown in the pictures below. Does this provide sufficient protection or should I have these RCD's (or should they be RCBO's) on each of the individual circuits ?

 

Also, I have 3 phase into the house but I notice I have only one main circuit breaker - does this make sense or should I be having 3 of these main circuit breakers ?

 

Please let me know if my setup is fine or if I will need to make some changes. Thanks in advance.

 

Edited August 4, 2018 by DineshR
Missed mentioning I have 3 phase into the house

[Vacuum]

On 8/2/2018 at 8:39 AM, Crossy said:

Cost of saving a life, 2,500 Baht https://www.thianthong.com/safe-t-cut-rcbo-special-a-series-r20.html

I know I go on about these every time someone dies needlessly in their shower / pool / garden, but hopefully the message will get across to all our members.

 

What about the adjustable knob obove the test button. what value should it be turned to?

[Crossy]

15 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

What about the adjustable knob obove the test button. what value should it be turned to?

The lowest it will take without nuisance tripping.

 

If it has a "direct" position you should not use it (it turns off the safety function).

 

[Aforek]

20 hours ago, Crossy said:

Just an MCB, touch a live wire like our victim, you die.

 

Schneider / Square-D make RCBO main switches which directly replace your 63A incoming breaker.

 

QO263C10RCBO30T should be the correct type.

from outside, QO263C10RCBO30T is taller than the Samuel Smith's MCB ; when opening the box, it's possible to replace it ? or he needs a smaller one ? 

( from picture post 122 ) 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Aforek

[Crossy]

5 minutes ago, Aforek said:

from outside, QO263C10RCBO30T is taller than the Samuel Smith's MCB ; when opening the box, it's possible to replace it ? or he needs a smaller one ? 

( from picture post 122 ) 

It stands taller inside the box, should be a direct plug-in replacement.

[Lacessit]

OK, so taking action I have had the circuit to the shower water heater replaced by a RCD by the local electrician. It's the one on the far right of the before and after photos.

Only problem is, it trips out as soon as I turn the water on. What do I do now?

[Crossy]

9 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Only problem is, it trips out as soon as I turn the water on. What do I do now?

Can you post a photo with the lid off, we need to see how it's wired.

 

I suggest you start a new thread in the electrical forum. Here https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/191-the-electrical-forum/

 

[Elkski]

yes this is going to take a big thread... can we take odds on a shared neutral or floating ground?

[Rally123]

On 8/2/2018 at 12:35 PM, webfact said:

There were signs of swelling on the victim's face and a burn mark on his left thumb.

The picture shows a suspected crime scene. So why move the mower away from the body? Plus, maybe the fuzz jumped when finding a burn mark on his hand? That could have happened a dozen ways prior to his death. To me the body looks too perfect. As if placed. Legs together and hands on his chest.

[johng]

2 ways of wiring the negative...
Found at the government housing authority apartments.

[Elkski]

1 hour ago, johng said:

2 ways of wiring the negative...
Found at the government housing authority apartments.

<deleted>.   Scary.   This confuses me to much as to what someone was even thinking.  How did anything work?  Crime scene.  

[johng]

21 minutes ago, Elkski said:

Crime scene.  

Yes a few lizards and maybe a million ants expired ?

[billd766]

5 hours ago, Rally123 said:

The picture shows a suspected crime scene. So why move the mower away from the body? Plus, maybe the fuzz jumped when finding a burn mark on his hand? That could have happened a dozen ways prior to his death. To me the body looks too perfect. As if placed. Legs together and hands on his chest.

 

Thai laws state than when a farang dies the police HAVE to be called to check for obvious signs of accident or wrongful death.

 

The farang is then taken, normally to a government hospital, where the doctors examine the body. If there are no signs of homicide which is what I think will happen here, is the body is then released back to the family.

 

If there are signs of it being a homicide then, I think, that the police request an autopsy, and the body is held at the hospital morgue until the autopsy and the police are finished with it when it is returned to the family. It is also the responsibility of the police to notify the farangs embassy.

 

If they were sensible the police would move the mower away from the victim (it may still be connected to the mains and therefore "live"). The police probably realised that he was dead and perhaps placed him in that position as a mark of respect for the dead.

[Rally123]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

Thai laws state than when a farang dies the police HAVE to be called to check for obvious signs of accident or wrongful death.

I Googled but could not find that law. I'd imagine the police would have to be called in the event of ANYONE"S, let alone farang, death if sudden. With the police then determining whether a post mortem needs to be carried out based on their findings.

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

If there are signs of it being a homicide then, I think, that the police request an autopsy,

Even if there is no signs of homicide the cause of death still has to be determined. And if an autopsy is the only way for that to be determined then.............

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

The police probably realised that he was dead and perhaps placed him in that position as a mark of respect for the dead.

Perhaps perhaps? To show respect for the dead why don't they cover him up and NOT allow some unknown take snapshots of him?

[Crossy]

7 hours ago, johng said:

2 ways of wiring the negative...
Found at the government housing authority apartments.
 

 Both are acceptable (or would be if they were wired correctly), although one would not expect to find both in one apartment block.

 

The first is MEN as required by the latest Thai regulations, incoming neutral (it's not "negative") via the ground bar. Unfortunately, whoever wired this up has the grounds including the rod (green) on the neutral bar and the neutrals (grey) on the ground bar, so if an RCD was fitted it would constantly trip.

 

The second is TT, incoming neutral directly to the incoming breaker.

 

Neither of the illustrations has any earth leakage protection.

[johng]

36 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Both are acceptable, although one would not expect to find both in one apartment block.

Yes they are in different buildings of a very large estate.

(90 buildings ! )

 

36 minutes ago, Crossy said:

(it's not "negative")

Sorry for using the wrong terminology.....what's wrong with negative and positive though ?

 

36 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Neither of the illustrations has any earth leakage protection.

There are (tenant installed)  stand alone leakage protection for  the bathroom water heater and outside garden plug.  (about 400 baht)

Edited August 5, 2018 by johng

[Crossy]

2 minutes ago, johng said:

Sorry for using the wrong terminology.....what's wrong with negative and positive though ? 

The supply is AC (Alternating Current) and switches polarity 50 times a second, so one wire is positive only half the time.

 

2 minutes ago, johng said:

There are (tenant installed)  stand alone leakage protection for  the bathroom water heater and outside garden plug.  (about 400 baht)

Yes, those little RCBOs are great and a valuable safety addition.

[johng]

3 minutes ago, Crossy said:

The supply is AC (Alternating Current) and switches polarity 50 times a second, so one wire is positive only half the time.

Ahh ok, so is  Negative and Positive correct terminology to use for DC  ?

[tracy3eyes]

On 8/2/2018 at 4:48 PM, Small Joke said:

Extrapolating his age to mine relative to his wifes,  I'd be married to a 21 year old with that same age gap!  

A tragedy to be sure, but that's a huge age difference all the same.   

Not all that uncommon. My wife is 24 years younger than I and we have been together for 14 years and have children.

[ttrd]

7 minutes ago, tracy3eyes said:

Not all that uncommon. My wife is 24 years younger than I and we have been together for 14 years and have children.

No rules without exceptions and you seems to be one of them - Lucky you…

Edited August 5, 2018 by ttrd

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Rally123 said:

I Googled but could not find that law. I'd imagine the police would have to be called in the event of ANYONE"S, let alone farang, death if sudden. With the police then determining whether a post mortem needs to be carried out based on their findings.

Even if there is no signs of homicide the cause of death still has to be determined. And if an autopsy is the only way for that to be determined then.............

Perhaps perhaps? To show respect for the dead why don't they cover him up and NOT allow some unknown take snapshots of him?

 

My apologies for not getting my facts straight.

 

I knew I had seen something somewhere and I found this on their UK Embassy website

 

http://www.british-consulate.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Information_Relating_to_Deaths_in_Thailand_-_November_2013.pdf

 

From page #4 of 13 pages.

 

Autopsies (Post Mortems) If the Royal Thai Police are not satisfied after a preliminary examination of the facts surrounding a death, they can request an autopsy. Further investigations and interviews with witnesses may also be called for before a decision is made as to cause of death. The autopsy report is usually available three months after a death has occurred. You will need to organise and pay for the translation of the report into English, if you need one. Your contact at the FCO in London can provide you with a list of translation companies or you can visit the British Embassy in Bangkok website: http://ukinthailand.fco.gov.uk/, where you will find contact details for Translation and Interpretation Companies in Thailand. You should be aware that an autopsy report is a factual, clinical document and as such you may find the contents graphic and distressing. In cases of sudden or unexpected death, for example by accident or misadventure or where a person dies unattended, the police will prepare an initial report of their findings - a copy of which will be sent to the Embassy. However, if death was caused by a criminal act the police will be ordered to conduct a full investigation. The State Prosecutor will then decide whether to prosecute. This can delay the release of the body. A separate document explaining what to expect when someone dies in suspicious circumstances can be obtained through your contact at the FCO.

 

During an autopsy, samples of organs can be removed for testing, including toxicological studies, at the discretion of the doctor without consent of NoK. NoK are not informed about the removal of these samples or their retention by the Thai authorities. The Embassy has no authority to intervene in this procedure, or to stop it taking place. Once the Thai authorities are content that no further examinations need to be made, the deceased’s body can be cremated in Thailand or returned to the UK before tests on removed organ samples are completed. Any samples removed are retained for the duration of the tests and are then put in storage for thirty days before being destroyed. Samples of organs or the organs themselves cannot be removed for any purpose other than testing without prior consent of the deceased (for research or transplants) or NoK (transplants only).

 

Mortuary Facilities There are mortuaries at most private hospitals in Thailand and at some government hospitals. The standards applied, for example in relation to storage temperature, vary from hospital to hospital. Although we will do everything we can to ensure appropriate storage, we cannot guarantee the conditions. Some mortuaries also charge a daily fee for storage of a body. We recommend that you make a decision about funeral arrangements as soon as possible.

 

There is a lot more about UK coroners etc but that is what the UK embassy says.

 

[billd766]

22 minutes ago, tracy3eyes said:

Not all that uncommon. My wife is 24 years younger than I and we have been together for 14 years and have children.

 

I am 74 and my wife is 21 years younger than me. We have been married for 18 years and knew each other for 7 years before that. Our son was 14 last week.