Boris Johnson slammed over Islamophobic comments

[Opl]

Religion and Education Around the World

Muslim educational attainment

 

http://www.pewforum.org/2016/12/13/muslim-educational-attainment/

 

Education levels vary among Muslims in Europe

Muslims in Europe, whose total numbers are projected to increase from 43 million in 2010 to more than 70 million in 2050, display a wide variation in average years of schooling, according to data from 24 European countries. In countries with relatively high education levels among Muslims, such as the United Kingdom and Ireland, Muslim communities often have been shaped by immigration policies favorable to highly educated migrants. ⁶

[My Thai Life]

7 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Your mate @My Thai Life still refuses to say where he lives

I have never asked anyone where they live. But I have often referred to my home town, it's no secret at all.

 

However it's well within reason to expect people to know a little about the subject they want to debate, and preferably through experience rather than online forums or news.

 

This subject does require some knowledge of the problems created by muslim immigration into the UK. I would suggest you start with Bradford or some of the districts in East London.

 

Turning a blind eye to these problems is not going to help. We have many immigrant groups in the UK; some of them integrate well, some of them don't. But muslims are unique in the level of their failure to integrate and their hostility to British values: take a look at the last 20 years, and see where the problems are coming from within the immigrant "communities" - overwhelmingly muslim.

 

And this is coupled with an explicit ideology fundamentally opposed to liberal values, as we have seen in the well publicised "hate preacher" events, and the Wahabbi infiltration of their "schools".

 

You can dispute this till you're blue in the face, it doesn't change reality, and it doesn't change the way an increasing number of ethnic Britons feel about it.

[bristolboy]

4 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

I have never asked anyone where they live. But I have often referred to my home town, it's no secret at all.

 

 

But you do make unverified assumptions about the nationality of others and impeach their comments on that account:

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1051842-boris-johnson-slammed-over-islamophobic-comments/?page=40&tab=comments#comment-13266111

In other words, a distinction without a meaningful difference.

[My Thai Life]

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

But you do make unverified assumptions about the nationality of others and impeach their comments on that account:

Blimey O'Reilly, you do love legalistic jargon don't you. A forensic linguist would tell you that that kind of language is much more common in the USA than in the UK.

 

But returning to the point, and for clarification, I don't care where anyone comes from, or their nationality. My point is that for informed comment, some sort of relevant experience is helpful. For example, a Chinese citizen who has lived in Bradford for a few years (one of the areas in the UK affected most adversely by muslim immigration) would have a lot more insight into this topic than someone who is a native of the Hebrides or Land's End (both in the UK).

 

As for uninformed comment, no comment.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, My Thai Life said:

Blimey O'Reilly, you do love legalistic jargon don't you. A forensic linguist would tell you that that kind of language is much more common in the USA than in the UK.

 

But returning to the point, and for clarification, I don't care where anyone comes from, or their nationality. My point is that for informed comment, some sort of relevant experience is helpful. For example, a Chinese citizen who has lived in Bradford for a few years (one of the areas in the UK affected most adversely by muslim immigration) would have a lot more insight into this topic than someone who is a native of the Hebrides or Land's End (both in the UK).

 

As for uninformed comment, no comment.

There you go again peddling the idea that your opinion is somehow more valid than that of others.

 

Shock us with a comment that actually addresses the topic under discussion - You’ll find reading the OP a good place to start.

[My Thai Life]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Shock us with a comment that actually addresses the topic under discussion - You’ll find reading the OP a good place to start.

Well I have posted many, but you don't seem to read them. Here's one I posted earlier.

 

Dr Taj Hargey, the imam at the Oxford Islamic Congregation, has said Boris Johnson should “not apologise for telling the truth”.

In a letter to the Times, he wrote: “The burka and niqab are hideous tribal ninja-like garments that are pre-Islamic, non-Koranic and therefore un-Muslim.

“Although this deliberate identity-concealing contraption is banned at the Kaaba in Mecca it is permitted in Britain, thus precipitating security risks, accelerating vitamin D deficiency, endorsing gender-inequality and inhibiting community cohesion.”

He added that Mr Johnson “did not go far enough” in his column for the Daily Telegraph on Monday.

He called on Britain to join "France, Belgium, Austria, Bulgaria, and Denmark in banning the burka."

 

[bristolboy]

12 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

Well I have posted many, but you don't seem to read them. Here's one I posted earlier.

 

Dr Taj Hargey, the imam at the Oxford Islamic Congregation, has said Boris Johnson should “not apologise for telling the truth”.

In a letter to the Times, he wrote: “The burka and niqab are hideous tribal ninja-like garments that are pre-Islamic, non-Koranic and therefore un-Muslim.

“Although this deliberate identity-concealing contraption is banned at the Kaaba in Mecca it is permitted in Britain, thus precipitating security risks, accelerating vitamin D deficiency, endorsing gender-inequality and inhibiting community cohesion.”

He added that Mr Johnson “did not go far enough” in his column for the Daily Telegraph on Monday.

He called on Britain to join "France, Belgium, Austria, Bulgaria, and Denmark in banning the burka."

 

It seems that Dr. Taj Hargey has something in common with the Islamists he opposes: a belief that what is permitted or banned in Saudi Arabia should have some relation to what is permitted or banned in the UK.

“Although this deliberate identity-concealing contraption is banned at the Kaaba in Mecca it is permitted in Britain,..."

He may have a point about security risks and there's a slight possibility about vitamin d deficiency, but there's nothing those points that stem from some special insight that a Muslim might have.

As for "endorsing gender inequality", that may be a distasteful opinion but it's someone's right to have it. And it's not the responsibility of the state to enforce the nebulous goal of "community cohesion." 

[My Thai Life]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

As for "endorsing gender inequality", that may be a distasteful opinion but it's someone's right to have it.

I know you think you're a liberal, and that you think you are supporting freedom of choice.

 

But in reality what you are doing is supporting the most illiberal misogynistic doctrine in the world. Again:

 

> Wahabbi women are obliged to wear this gear by their sect's interpretation of the koran

> their koran gives the males the right to beat women who don't conform

> women (and men) who get tired of this nonsense and decide to leave this primitive sect may be killed according to their interpretation of the koran

> British muslim women who refuse to marry according to their sect's wishes are frequently murdered or maimed - google "honour killings uk" or "muslim honour killings".

 

I am a lifelong liberal; I will never support such illiberal misogyny, I have told you this many times.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

I know you think you're a liberal, and that you think you are supporting freedom of choice.

 

But in reality what you are doing is supporting the most illiberal misogynistic doctrine in the world. Again:

 

> Wahabbi women are obliged to wear this gear by their sect's interpretation of the koran

> their koran gives the males the right to beat women who don't conform

> women (and men) who get tired of this nonsense and decide to leave this primitive sect may be killed according to their interpretation of the koran

> British muslim women who refuse to marry according to their sect's wishes are frequently murdered or maimed - google "honour killings uk" or "muslim honour killings".

 

I am a lifelong liberal; I will never support such illiberal misogyny, I have told you this many times.

If you support freedom of choice you can’t then support banning a tiny minority of women choosing to dress in a manner you don’t like.

 

When you frame your arguments against the choice these women make wholly in Islamophobic terms you reveal the fallacy of your claim to be a life long liberal.

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If you support freedom of choice you can’t then support banning a tiny minority of women choosing to dress in a manner you don’t like.

 

When you frame your arguments against the choice these women make wholly in Islamophobic terms you reveal the fallacy of your claim to be a life long liberal.

Why do you say "what you don't like" most of the citizens in the UK don't like it and want it banned. Why can't the majority have a "choice" for a change.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

Why do you say "what you don't like" most of the citizens in the UK don't like it and want it banned. Why can't the majority have a "choice" for a change.

Oh so now Vogie steps in with a new definition of Freedom of Choice.

 

Choose what you like but don’t choose something that other people don’t like.

 

Just imagine now if you get a few like minded newspaper editors publishing stories to persuade their readers not to like something.

 

You might be into something Vogie.

 

How about mob rule?!

[bristolboy]

Just now, My Thai Life said:

Well you couldn't have tried very hard. And you obviously missed post two posts above.

 

"There’s an estimated 12-15 honour killings every year in the UK, according to the Halo Project - but the figure could still be much higher as so many go unreported as victims might fear implicating their family or those in their community."

 

https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/real-life/uk-honour-killings/

 

You're not really a liberal at all. You're an enabler of the most hideous kind of misogyny on the planet today.

Well, I did see that but since it was estimated and no confirmatory source of that info was provided, it doesn't qualify as a statistic. But even if it's accurate or an underestimate, you fail to explain how banning the burqa is going to reduce honour killings. And since you haven't explained it, how is opposing banning the burqa enabling honour killings?

[vogie]

34 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Oh so now Vogie steps in with a new definition of Freedom of Choice.

 

Choose what you like but don’t choose something that other people don’t like.

 

Just imagine now if you get a few like minded newspaper editors publishing stories to persuade their readers not to like something.

 

You might be into something Vogie.

 

How about mob rule?!

How about you realise that just because you say something, it does not make it correct. And of course you are far too intelligent to be persuaded by reading a newspaper, don't you think that statement is a tad patronising.

 

[My Thai Life]

10 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

you fail to explain how banning the burqa is going to reduce honour killings.

These Wahabbi women don't have freedom of choice, that's the point. They don't have freedom of dress, freedom of religion, freedom of whom to marry. And precious little other freedom.

 

And when they do pursue freedom in the UK they are frequently murdered and abused.

 

And you are an enabler of that oppression.

 

"There’s an estimated 12-15 honour killings every year in the UK, according to the Halo Project - but the figure could still be much higher as so many go unreported as victims might fear implicating their family or those in their community."

 

https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/real-life/uk-honour-killings/

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

These Wahabbi women don't have freedom of choice, that's the point. They don't have freedom of dress, freedom of religion, freedom of whom to marry. And precious little other freedom.

 

And when they do pursue freedom in the UK they are frequently murdered and abused.

 

And you are an enabler of that oppression.

 

"There’s an estimated 12-15 honour killings every year in the UK, according to the Halo Project - but the figure could still be much higher as so many go unreported as victims might fear implicating their family or those in their community."

 

https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/real-life/uk-honour-killings/

You're repeating yourself. You keep on asserting that I'm an enabler of the oppression of Wahabbi women in the UK because I don't support the banning of the burqa but you seem unable to provide an explanation of how such a ban will lessen their oppression in the UK. Do you think if you assert the same thing x amount of times that will make it true? 

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Why do you say "what you don't like" most of the citizens in the UK don't like it and want it banned. Why can't the majority have a "choice" for a change.

Because in a constitutional system of government, "rights" don't get decided by majority rule.

[My Thai Life]

13 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

You're repeating yourself. You keep on asserting that I'm an enabler of the oppression of Wahabbi women in the UK because I don't support the banning of the burqa but you seem unable to provide an explanation of how such a ban will lessen their oppression in the UK. Do you think if you assert the same thing x amount of times that will make it true? 

Yes I am repeating myself because you are repeatedly failing to read and / or think about evidence or opinion that doesn't support your preconceptions.

 

So you want a clear causal link between muslim headgear and honour killings? You'd be better off thinking of it in terms of the headgear being one visible strand of the oppression of women under this sect that regularly abuses and murders women for pursuing freedom.

 

By the way, the links and quotes I gave you for honour killings do not include other honour crimes. Fuller figures are here:

 

"More than 11,000 cases of so-called honour crime were recorded by UK police forces from 2010-14, new figures show.

 The figures revealed 11,744 incidences of these crimes between 2010 and 2014, consisting of data from 39 out of 52 police forces in the UK. They included forced marriage and female genital mutilation (FGM)." 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33424644

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Because in a constitutional system of government, "rights" don't get decided by majority rule.

I didn't think Britain had a constitution, are you thinking of the USA?

[vinegarbase]

So the corrupt media labels him wrong (who didn't see that coming from that tired playbook) for him making some comments but you have guys like this running around in the UK? Seems like he is right to be speaking out.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-security-choudary-idUSKCN10R1KH

 

Once again the media continues to try to program it's viewers to pipe down and only say the things they label as correct.

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

I didn't think Britain had a constitution, are you thinking of the USA?

The British Constitution is cited so often in boilerplate political speeches that I'm astounded you aren't familiar with the concept. Unless of course you're not from the UK or take no interest in UK politics.

Constitution of the United Kingdom

... The British constitution primarily draws from four sources: statute law (laws passed by the legislature), common law (laws established through court judgments), parliamentary conventions, and works of authority.^[1] Similar to an entirely written constitution, this sum also concerns both the relationship between the individual and the state and the functioning of the legislature, the executive, and the judiciary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_Kingdom

[bristolboy]

15 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Yes I am repeating myself because you are repeatedly failing to read and / or think about evidence or opinion that doesn't support your preconceptions.

 

So you want a clear causal link between muslim headgear and honour killings? You'd be better off thinking of it in terms of the headgear being one visible strand of the oppression of women under this sect that regularly abuses and murders women for pursuing freedom.

 

By the way, the links and quotes I gave you for honour killings do not include other honour crimes. Fuller figures are here:

 

"More than 11,000 cases of so-called honour crime were recorded by UK police forces from 2010-14, new figures show.

 The figures revealed 11,744 incidences of these crimes between 2010 and 2014, consisting of data from 39 out of 52 police forces in the UK. They included forced marriage and female genital mutilation (FGM)." 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33424644

And you still haven't explained how banning the burqa is going to reduce honour crimes. You've got a lot of faith in the power of repetition.

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

The British Constitution is cited so often in boilerplate political speeches that I'm astounded you aren't familiar with the concept. Unless of course you're not from the UK or take no interest in UK politics.

Constitution of the United Kingdom

... The British constitution primarily draws from four sources: statute law (laws passed by the legislature), common law (laws established through court judgments), parliamentary conventions, and works of authority.^[1] Similar to an entirely written constitution, this sum also concerns both the relationship between the individual and the state and the functioning of the legislature, the executive, and the judiciary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_Kingdom

Unlike most modern states, Britain does not have a codified constitution but an unwritten one formed of Acts of Parliament, court judgments and conventions. Professor Robert Blackburn explains this system, including Magna Carta’s place within it, and asks whether the UK should now have a written constitution.

 

://www.bl.uk/magna-carta/articles/britains-unwritten-constitution

 

[bristolboy]

14 minutes ago, vinegarbase said:

So the corrupt media labels him wrong (who didn't see that coming from that tired playbook) for him making some comments but you have guys like this running around in the UK? Seems like he is right to be speaking out.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-security-choudary-idUSKCN10R1KH

 

Once again the media continues to try to program it's viewers to pipe down and only say the things they label as correct.

Did you actually read the article you linked to? If you haven't, you ought to know that far from "running around in the UK" those guys were actually tried and convicted.

[dick dasterdly]

3 hours ago, bristolboy said:

It seems that Dr. Taj Hargey has something in common with the Islamists he opposes: a belief that what is permitted or banned in Saudi Arabia should have some relation to what is permitted or banned in the UK.

“Although this deliberate identity-concealing contraption is banned at the Kaaba in Mecca it is permitted in Britain,..."

He may have a point about security risks and there's a slight possibility about vitamin d deficiency, but there's nothing those points that stem from some special insight that a Muslim might have.

As for "endorsing gender inequality", that may be a distasteful opinion but it's someone's right to have it. And it's not the responsibility of the state to enforce the nebulous goal of "community cohesion." 

"As for "endorsing gender inequality", that may be a distasteful opinion but it's someone's right to have it. And it's not the responsibility of the state to enforce the nebulous goal of "community cohesion." "

 

Why on earth would do you consider his statement (re. the burka and nikab) "endorsing gender inequality" -  a distasteful opinion??

 

I'd also disagree with your second sentence, as I think he's right in stating that it inhibits "community cohesion.”  - and personally, I think this is an important issue/responsibility that the govt. needs to address.

[bristolboy]

10 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"As for "endorsing gender inequality", that may be a distasteful opinion but it's someone's right to have it. And it's not the responsibility of the state to enforce the nebulous goal of "community cohesion." "

 

Why on earth would do you consider his statement (re. the burka and nikab) "endorsing gender inequality" -  a distasteful opinion??

 

I'd also disagree with your second sentence, as I think he's right in stating that it inhibits "community cohesion.”  - and personally, I think this is an important issue/responsibility that the govt. needs to address.

"Endorsing gender inequality" = "Supporting gender inequality." Do you think that it's not distasteful?

 

 

[roobaa01]

boris johnson comments are in no way islamophobic when for example  muslim sexual abuse of young english teenage girls are considered 2400 in telford and rothenham, the latest huddersfield their names hussain who abused sexually young girls,story in the guardian.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[Chomper Higgot]

34 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"As for "endorsing gender inequality", that may be a distasteful opinion but it's someone's right to have it. And it's not the responsibility of the state to enforce the nebulous goal of "community cohesion." "

 

Why on earth would do you consider his statement (re. the burka and nikab) "endorsing gender inequality" -  a distasteful opinion??

 

I'd also disagree with your second sentence, as I think he's right in stating that it inhibits "community cohesion.”  - and personally, I think this is an important issue/responsibility that the govt. needs to address.

Do Boris Johnson’s comments help ‘community cohesion’ or are they stirring division?

 

Comments under this thread might give a clue to the answer.

[roobaa01]

@chomper higgot  common reality for muslim women an iman in the mosque claims women wearing not the veil are sinners, thus they will suffer in their life after death and will not enter paradise. do they have the freedom of choice ??

 

wbr

roobaa01

[Grouse]

18 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

Well I have posted many, but you don't seem to read them. Here's one I posted earlier.

 

Dr Taj Hargey, the imam at the Oxford Islamic Congregation, has said Boris Johnson should “not apologise for telling the truth”.

In a letter to the Times, he wrote: “The burka and niqab are hideous tribal ninja-like garments that are pre-Islamic, non-Koranic and therefore un-Muslim.

“Although this deliberate identity-concealing contraption is banned at the Kaaba in Mecca it is permitted in Britain, thus precipitating security risks, accelerating vitamin D deficiency, endorsing gender-inequality and inhibiting community cohesion.”

He added that Mr Johnson “did not go far enough” in his column for the Daily Telegraph on Monday.

He called on Britain to join "France, Belgium, Austria, Bulgaria, and Denmark in banning the burka."

 

He's on Hardtalk today. Excellent!

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

"As for "endorsing gender inequality", that may be a distasteful opinion but it's someone's right to have it. And it's not the responsibility of the state to enforce the nebulous goal of "community cohesion." "

 

Why on earth would do you consider his statement (re. the burka and nikab) "endorsing gender inequality" -  a distasteful opinion??

 

I'd also disagree with your second sentence, as I think he's right in stating that it inhibits "community cohesion.”  - and personally, I think this is an important issue/responsibility that the govt. needs to address.

 

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

"Endorsing gender inequality" = "Supporting gender inequality." Do you think that it's not distasteful?

 

 

You are deliberately (?) mis-representing my post.

 

Dr. Taj Halay (the imam at the Oxford Islamic Congregation),stated that in his opinion that the nikab should be banned in Britain because, (amongst other reasons) it 'endorsed gender inequality' - plus, it inhibits community cohesion.

 

I agree with him wholeheartedly.