Boris Johnson slammed over Islamophobic comments

[blazes]

Banning the burqa would have the desirable effect of removing it from the sphere of "religion" (where the ridiculous custom is presently protected by our "hate" laws) and into the sphere of the political.

So, if women still want to wear the burqa (free choice and all that), it should be seen as a political act, not a religious one.  They can then take the consequences of breaking the law, as has been the case over hundreds of years by those who are opposed to what they see as an unjust law.

My suspicion is that not too many burqa-wearing women would be prepared (absent any outside pressure) to persist in wearing this garb.

 

 

[vogie]

Not only would getting rid of the burqa improve their chances of intergration, but learning the language the would help them improve their lifestyles. This link is about Sajid Javids mother learning the language and without that I very much doubt that Sajid Javid would be the bookies favourite to become the next leader of the Conservative party.

 

"Sajid Javid has revealed that 770,000 people living in England speak no English or hardly any, in a personal interview in which he described his own experience as a “six-year-old interpreter” for his Pakistani mother.

The communities secretary promised to expand the teaching of English for immigrants as he warned that up to 70% of those unable to speak the language were women, and most of them were from Pakistani or Bangladeshi communities."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/14/sajid-javid-770000-people-in-england-not-able-to-speak-english

 

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, blazes said:

Banning the burqa would have the desirable effect of removing it from the sphere of "religion" (where the ridiculous custom is presently protected by our "hate" laws) and into the sphere of the political.

So, if women still want to wear the burqa (free choice and all that), it should be seen as a political act, not a religious one.  They can then take the consequences of breaking the law, as has been the case over hundreds of years by those who are opposed to what they see as an unjust law.

My suspicion is that not too many burqa-wearing women would be prepared (absent any outside pressure) to persist in wearing this garb.

 

 

 You need to read up on the law.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Not only would getting rid of the burqa improve their chances of intergration, but learning the language the would help them improve their lifestyles. This link is about Sajid Javids mother learning the language and without that I very much doubt that Sajid Javid would be the bookies favourite to become the next leader of the Conservative party.

 

"Sajid Javid has revealed that 770,000 people living in England speak no English or hardly any, in a personal interview in which he described his own experience as a “six-year-old interpreter” for his Pakistani mother.

The communities secretary promised to expand the teaching of English for immigrants as he warned that up to 70% of those unable to speak the language were women, and most of them were from Pakistani or Bangladeshi communities."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/14/sajid-javid-770000-people-in-england-not-able-to-speak-english

 

And who slashed funding of English lessons for immigrants?

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And who slashed funding of English lessons for immigrants?

Chomper your negativity has become tedious, you have obviously not bothered to look at the link, up to you.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Chomper your negativity has become tedious, you have obviously not bothered to look at the link, up to you.

My negativity?!

 

 

It wasn’t me who slashed funding to programs teaching English to immigrants.

[roobaa01]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I have a suspicion that if a news thread were opened discussing an Arabic Food Festival,  you’d insert some comment about ‘Honour Killings’.

 

Honour killings and who commits Honour killings has absolutely no bearing on the topic of discussion.

 

in conjunction with islamophobic comments not ???

 

wbr

roobaa01

[My Thai Life]

18 minutes ago, simple1 said:

You're posting misleading info by inferring honour killing in the UK are only by Muslim heritage people; from your link...

I am not misleading anyone, and I think any Brit who knows the way the news about these crimes is reported in the UK would understand that. These crime figures are not broken down for specific sects, otherwise I would have given them to you.

 

Does it make you feel better to think that not all honour crimes are committed by muslims? One thing is for certain, these types of crimes - forced marriage, murder for not marrying the person your parents want you to, beating women for not wearing a dress according to "scripture", cutting young girls' and babies' clitorises off, are not crimes that we ethnic Brits are used to seeing in our country, nor do we want to see them.

 

Something else you might want to consider:

 

- these crimes are under-reported by the victims - as are almost all crimes of violence against women

- the police are under-recording these crimes even when they are reported (there is another BBC link for this)

- the culture that these poor women "belong" to condones the crimes and conspires with the perpetrators to cover the whole thing up.

 

And well-meaning liberals who through their ignorance shout it's about "freedom of choice" have completely lost the plot. These women have:

 

> no freedom of religion

> no freedom to marry who they want

> no freedom of dress.

 

[roobaa01]

wearing not the veil is in islamic culture deadly for example that somali woman reported by bbc.com

 

wbr

roobaa01

[dick dasterdly]

39 minutes ago, vogie said:

Not only would getting rid of the burqa improve their chances of intergration, but learning the language the would help them improve their lifestyles. This link is about Sajid Javids mother learning the language and without that I very much doubt that Sajid Javid would be the bookies favourite to become the next leader of the Conservative party.

 

"Sajid Javid has revealed that 770,000 people living in England speak no English or hardly any, in a personal interview in which he described his own experience as a “six-year-old interpreter” for his Pakistani mother.

The communities secretary promised to expand the teaching of English for immigrants as he warned that up to 70% of those unable to speak the language were women, and most of them were from Pakistani or Bangladeshi communities."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/14/sajid-javid-770000-people-in-england-not-able-to-speak-english

 

"getting rid of the burqa improve their chances of integration"

 

Agree 100%., which is why the majority of those that moved to the uk decades ago stopped wearing the burka.

 

They wanted to integrate (whilst still keeping their own religion, which is fair enough) - and, consequently, interacted with the 'locals' making it easier to learn the language of the country to which they had moved  - to improve the lives of both themselves and their children.

 

It's depressing that a few of their children have now decided that wearing the burka is a 'better' way to prove their allegiance to their religion.

[dick dasterdly]

And now of course, we have the more recent 'refugees' - that apparently have no interest in integrating with the local community - in any way at all ☹️.

[dick dasterdly]

52 minutes ago, simple1 said:

You're posting misleading info by inferring honour killing in the UK are only by Muslim heritage people; from your link...

 

While tabloids would have you believe that honour killings have long been associated with Islam, the practice has also occurred in Sikh, Hindu and Christian communities as well.

 

Regards the other crime often mentioned, FGM, also not unique to Muslim families in the UK, sadly also a cultural practise by African Christians living in the UK.

 

Burka / niqab also worn by Shiite women in some areas.

So we all agree that these abhorrent cultural practises  need to be banned?

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So simply banning stuff diesn’t work.

 

Perhaps there’s a lesson in that.

Yes there is, let's all be apathetic.

[My Thai Life]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Murder and FMG are already illegal.

These practices are NOT illegal in their sect, as you've been told many times before.

 

> murder is approved for muslims who want to leave the "faith"

> beating women for not conforming to the "dress code" is mandated by their koran, so they say

> cutting clitorises off girls and babies is quite common among some muslims in the UK, and appears to growing, but the exact figures have not been revealed to the public (and are probably not known), as you will know if you have read my previously posted BBC link.

 

I suggest you take a week's holiday in Bradford (UK) and report back to us. Maybe you will then understand the issues a bit better. 

 

[7by7]

On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 1:40 AM, My Thai Life said:

On ‎8‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 8:23 AM, 7by7 said:

As already explained to you; people who cannot speak and write English to B1 of the CEFR for speaking and listening and good enough to study for and pass the written LitUK test, cannot naturalise as British.

In that case the 22% figure of muslim women who cannot speak English at all, or at a very low level (A1 tops), is a gross underestimate of the number of muslim women who do not qualify for Britsh citizenship isn't it?

 Underestimate?

 

How?

[My Thai Life]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

Underestimate? How?

Hi 7b7, really I'm trying to combine the info you gave me that CEFR B1 is required for British citizenship with other CEFR info that I have. You seem to know a lot about what's required by UK immigration, I guess as a result of your Thai wife's application, or maybe you are a TEFL teacher in the UK. Either way your knowledge about the level required by UK immigration is greater than mine and I accept what you say.

 

Ok, here's the explanation about a possible underestimate.

 

22% is the number that has been used to describe muslim women who have zero English or very limited English. That would be CEFR A1. So what we're missinng is CEFR A2 (this is the grade between A1 and B1).

 

So, based on this, the real figure for muslim women in England whose English is below the level required for citizenship  is 22% (they are at A1 or pre A1) plus the percentage of muslim women in the A2 English language band.

 

It's a small point, but one that my recent Thai studies prompted some thought about. I'm currently working with B2 Thai material. It's tough going, especially the Thai reading and writing of course. Good luck with your wife's application by the way.

 

 

[7by7]

On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 2:21 AM, My Thai Life said:

I have never asked anyone where they live. 

Not that i have seen, no. But you repeatedly ask one particular member what his nationality is.

 

On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 2:21 AM, My Thai Life said:

But I have often referred to my home town, it's no secret at all.

Not that I have seen in this topic, and certainly not since I asked you. If you have done so before, why are you being so coy about it now?

 

On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 2:21 AM, My Thai Life said:

However it's well within reason to expect people to know a little about the subject they want to debate, and preferably through experience rather than online forums or news.

BTW, I am not asking you where your home town is, I am asking you where you live. My aunt's home town was Woking, but after marrying a Canadian serviceman in 1945 she moved to Canada and lived there until she died. Woking changed enormously since she left; her pre war and wartime experiences would be totally irrelevant.

 

You have repeatedly claimed to have lived in Saudi for many years, so your home town experiences could easily be as out of date as hers were.

 

So 'fess up: where do you live now.

On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 2:21 AM, My Thai Life said:

This subject does require some knowledge of the problems created by muslim immigration into the UK. I would suggest you start with Bradford or some of the districts in East London. 

 

Turning a blind eye to these problems is not going to help. We have many immigrant groups in the UK; some of them integrate well, some of them don't. But muslims are unique in the level of their failure to integrate and their hostility to British values: take a look at the last 20 years, and see where the problems are coming from within the immigrant "communities" - overwhelmingly muslim.

 

I have already shown you that Muslim no go areas, are a myth and so called Sharia patrols were condemned by the local Muslim population and stamped upon very quickly by the police with the perpetrators being jailed.

 

If you actually lived in the UK you would know that the two of the biggest problems in towns and cities throughout the UK are drunken brawling and knife crime. Neither are committed by Muslims; drunken brawling is predominantly white males, knife crime predominantly committed by young black men with a West Indian background.

 

Yes, some Muslim communities are insular and do not mix much with non Muslims, or even Muslims who are not part of their community outside of work. What about other communities who

do exactly the same? Haredi Jews, for example; have they integrated?

 

On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 2:21 AM, My Thai Life said:

And this is coupled with an explicit ideology fundamentally opposed to liberal values, as we have seen in the well publicised "hate preacher" events, and the Wahabbi infiltration of their "schools".

Hate preachers have been arrested and imprisoned, and are usually condemned by the majority of the Muslim population. A prime example being Finsbury park mosque

 

As previously shown, Salafis, or Wahabis if you prefer, make up less than 4% of the UK's Muslim population.

 

Some Muslim schools have been criticised and even closed by OFSTED, as have some other faith schools.

 

On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 2:21 AM, My Thai Life said:

You can dispute this till you're blue in the face, it doesn't change reality, and it doesn't change the way an increasing number of ethnic Britons feel about it.

I dispute it because you post what you post is influenced by your own hate and prejudices and bears little resemblance to life in the UK; which you would know if you actually lived here; especially if you lived in a town with a substantial Muslim population as I do.

 

Like most others in the UK of whatever faith or none, of whatever ethnicity, most Muslims have integrated, do play their part. In the NHS, for example, from leading surgeons and consultants down to the woman who changed my Mum's nappy and wiped her bum during the last days of her life.

 

But you are not interested in any of that. All you are interested in is peddling your own hate filled ideology.

 

[7by7]

16 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Ok, here's the explanation about a possible underestimate.

 You have now changed "gross underestimate" to "possible underestimate!"

 

Pathetic.

 

The current rules mean that those who do not yet have B1, or are nationals of an Anglophone country, and have not yet passed the LitUK test cannot apply for ILR or naturalisation. 

 

It was precisely because of the proportionately large number of people, of many nationalities and religions, living in the UK with ILR whose English was poor that the language requirements were introduced in the first place. But they were not made retrospective. Those who already had ILR, even citizenship, were not threatened with it being removed unless they passed the new tests.

 

Got it now?

[My Thai Life]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

most Muslims have integrated,

Please spend some time in Bradford and the Wahabbi enclaves of East London and then come back and tell us what you think about integration.

 

I have no hatred towards muslims at all. How could I have worked in muslim environments in muslim countries for so long if I hated muslims? You are confusing the traditions of the Wahabbi sect, whose garb is the subject of Boris Johnson's "joke", with muslims at large.

 

I have even dated muslims - at least some of those who have managed to leave their "faith" (the technical term is "aspostate") without being murdered for it. As you may know, murder is the punishment for leaving islam, and not just for the Wahabbis that you support. There's integration, freedom of choice, and tolerance for you.

 

This is not the first time you've made a personal attack on me. It says a lot more about you than it does about me.

[7by7]

51 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

I suggest you take a week's holiday in Bradford (UK) and report back to us. Maybe you will then understand the issues a bit better.

Perhaps you should also spend some time in the UK before you pontificate on the realities of life here; realities you obviously have no recent experience of; if any.

 

 

[7by7]

4 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Please spend some time in Bradford and the Wahabbi enclaves of East London and then come back and tell us what you think about integration.

I have done both; recently.

 

Lot's of shops selling pork products, lot's of pubs and bars, lots of women walking around in short skirts and tank tops, or less.

 

If you think wearing funny clothes means someone has not integrated, then I suggest you spend some time in Stamford Hill, Canvey Island or similar.

 

Where do you live and when was the last time you were anywhere in the UK, let alone a town with a large Muslim population?

 

That you refuse to answer and instead continue to post lies which have been disproven again and again says all one needs to know about you. 

 

Good day.

[My Thai Life]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

I have done both; recently.

Really, which Wahabbi enclaves have you spent time in recently?

[dick dasterdly]

52 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So simply banning stuff diesn’t work.

 

Perhaps there’s a lesson in that.

True to a certain extent.  Those abused need to have the freedom to realise they've been abused and report the abuse.

 

Not likely to happen as long as the govt. and police  'tippy-toe' around these offenses, in fear of 'annoying' the community - resulting in riots/giving even more reason for those against these offenses to get angry etc...

 

In the same way as the govt. are 'tippy-toeing' around the burka and nikab...

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, My Thai Life said:

Please spend some time in Bradford and the Wahabbi enclaves of East London and then come back and tell us what you think about integration.

 

I have no hatred towards muslims at all. How could I have worked in muslim environments in muslim countries for so long if I hated muslims? You are confusing the traditions of the Wahabbi sect, whose garb is the subject of Boris Johnson's "joke", with muslims at large.

 

I have even dated muslims - at least some of those who have managed to leave their "faith" (the technical term is "aspostate") without being murdered for it. As you may know, murder is the punishment for leaving islam, and not just for the Wahabbis that you support. There's integration, freedom of choice, and tolerance for you.

 

This is not the first time you've made a personal attack on me. It says a lot more about you than it does about me.

“I have no hatred towards muslims at all.”

 

Your continual stream of hate filled anti Muslim generations suggests otherwise.

 

“How could I have worked in muslim environments in muslim countries for so long if I hated muslims?”

 

The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

I’ve known a number of people who have worked in the Middle East and other ‘Muslim’ countries who are filled with hatred of Muslims. 

 

Since you ask how could you have done so; I suspect by keeping your anti Muslim and Islamophobic ideas to yourself until you left.

[dick dasterdly]

52 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So simply banning stuff diesn’t work.

 

Perhaps there’s a lesson in that.

True to a certain extent.  Those abused need to have the freedom to realise they've been abused and report the abuse.

 

Not likely to happen as long as the govt. and police  'tippy-toe' around these offenses, in fear of 'annoying' the community - resulting in riots/giving even more reason for those against these offenses to get angry etc...

 

In the same way as the govt. are 'tippy-toeing' around the burka and nikab...

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

True to a certain extent.  Those abused need to have the freedom to realise they've been abused and report the abuse.

 

Not likely to happen as long as the govt. and police  'tippy-toe' around these offenses, in fear of 'annoying' the community - resulting in riots/giving even more reason for those against these offenses to get angry etc...

 

In the same way as the govt. are 'tippy-toeing' around the burka and nikab...

I certainly agree that those who are abused need to be offered help.

 

But how does a senior politician ridiculing women help build the necessary trust in which help can be given?

[My Thai Life]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

But how does a senior politician ridiculing women help build the necessary trust in which help can be given?

Some people might see it as ridiculing the dress code, rather than the woman.

 

After all it's the Wahabbi sect that demands women dress to eliminate any personality, with a little slit for the eyes (or not as the case may be).

 

It's the Wahabbi sect that dehumanises women. And you evidently support the sect's dehumanisation of women. That's your choice.

 

As a lifelong liberal I will not.

 

Boris is just playing a political game, he's not a social worker.

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Some people might see it as ridiculing the dress code, rather than the woman.

 

After all it's the Wahabbi sect that demands women dress to eliminate any personality, with a little slit for the eyes (or not as the case may be).

 

It's the Wahabbi sect that dehumanises women. And you evidently support the sect's dehumanisation of women. That's your choice.

 

As a lifelong liberal I will not.

 

Boris is just playing a political game, he's not a social worker.

Sorry, I wasn’t asking for to vomit more of your Islamophobia.

[roobaa01]

if boris johnson comments were islamophobic, why would then the daily mail report about a lancashire police officer admitting in preston were muslim area where the police would need to ask muslim community leaders permission to patrol those areas ???

 

wbr

roobaa01

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, roobaa01 said:

if boris johnson comments were islamophobic, why would then the daily mail report about a lancashire police officer admitting in preston were muslim area where the police would need to ask muslim community leaders permission to patrol those areas ???

 

wbr

roobaa01

Do just type random stuff hoping it might be relevant or do just type random stuff but don’t care if it’s relevant?