UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[mommysboy]

Going swimmingly.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6311795/Poll-shows-collapse-confidence-Theresa-Mays-ability-negotiate-Brexit.html

 

It really shows that people were expecting a much better deal.

 

In this situation, it's only natural to reconsider; reality doesn't seem to cut muster where Brexit is concerned.  Anyone would think we're buying a pack of gum.

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

And you believe JRM?

 

I trust the actual act

Yes, in this case he has a valid point. Otherwise, if the HOC is majority remain then why didn't it just ignore the whole thing then? Maybe they are finally trying to do that right now... but the dust is still high in the sky.

 

[mommysboy]

I assume the quotes are verbatim

 

https://www.open-britain.co.uk/leave_campaigners_try_to_drop_their_false_promises

 

3.     Trade with the EU will not be harmed. “Our trade will almost certainly continue with the EU on similar to current circumstances…The reality is that the hard-headed, pragmatic businessmen on the continent will do everything to ensure that trade with Britain continues uninterrupted.” David Davis, speech, 26 May 2016

 

“The EU’s supporters say ‘we must have access to the Single Market’. Britain will have access to the Single Market after we vote leave”. Vote Leave, What Happens When We Vote Leave?

 

“there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market”, Boris Johnson, The Telegraph, 26 June 2016

[nauseus]

I thought this was interesting:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2018-10-18/deutsche-bank-says-post-brexit-u-k-has-potential-to-thrive-video

 

Hopefully people like David will have significant influence shortly.

[kwilco]

Not looking good for May and Brexit. Do you think they'll get over it?

 

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/confidence-theresa-may-get-good-brexit-deal-continues-fall

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

I thought this was interesting:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2018-10-18/deutsche-bank-says-post-brexit-u-k-has-potential-to-thrive-video

 

Hopefully people like David will have significant influence shortly.

You want German economists who espouse more European integration, and support quantitative easing to have more say post Brexit?

 

Odd bedfellows you choose.

 

Are Deutshe Bank backing up ‘David’s’ point of view by increasing investment in the UK, or are they waiting for the fire sale?

[kwilco]

The BrexIteers' dream for Britain.......

 

[kwilco]

The problem with arguing for a flat earth is that in the end your reasoning collapses because the premise is incorrect.

• Thus it is demonstrated here for Brexit......Britain is, was and always will be part of Europe.

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by kwilco

[tebee]

The no-deal warnings miss the point. The (alarming) short-term cost of Brexit is dwarfed by the long-term cost.

 

Decades of lower growth, missed opportunities & narrowed horizons will mean more than a few months of drug shortages. They will mean a permanently stunted country.

 

The UK can mitigate many of the worst initial impacts and it will - not least for presentation purposes, but becoming a third country, obliterating our services sectors will have a profound impact on our long term prospects.

[tebee]

From Twitter -

 

Brexit is such a waste of time, money and resources. The young voters will ensure we either remain or rejoin. The money spent on Brexit could have been used to save lives of less fortunate people in the uk. That would be a real government serving the people.

[Scott]

Post in a foreign language removed.  

[transam]

12 minutes ago, tebee said:

From Twitter -

 

Brexit is such a waste of time, money and resources. The young voters will ensure we either remain or rejoin. The money spent on Brexit could have been used to save lives of less fortunate people in the uk. That would be a real government serving the people.

But when brexit is done and dusted the UK will not be wasting money taking care of non UK folk in countries that have done sod all...

[tebee]

It's official: We've run out of time to prepare for no-deal Brexit

 

 

 http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/10/24/it-s-official-we-ve-run-out-of-time-to-prepare-for-no-deal

 

So if we do crash out, we will be unprepared - recipe for chaos 

[Jip99]

12 hours ago, Grouse said:

Cameron was only a PM; he was not the king

 

It is parliament that is sovereign

 

Straw-grasping has become the only weapon in your armoury.

 

Parliament will not renege on the undertaking of one of it's Prime Ministers.

 

Imagine what that would do for democracy...

 

 

..... Oh!..... you can't.

[Jip99]

13 hours ago, bomber said:

still only his opinions,i can recall many things he has stated that did not happen

 

Care to list them ?

 

The matter of the referendum was somewhat more significant than school milk or local budgets.

[Kieran00001]

18 hours ago, nauseus said:

Maybe.. but that's nothing to do with what i said.

 

I was trying to imply that as it has taken 600+ people two years to not finish, it would have taken Dave even more recourse to get done before the referendum.

[Kieran00001]

17 hours ago, nauseus said:

Yep, Labour would finally complete their abandonment of their GE manifesto, anything for a way in.

Then we're really stuffed - Brexit or not.

 

 

 

If you believe they will completely abandon their GE manifesto then what is that you fear?  The unknown?

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

The BrexIteers' dream for Britain.......

 

A dream shared by 3.8 million EI citizens living in the UK, its strange the Great EU the land of honey and milk and Project Fear isn't able to persuade them to upsticks and return for some reason they prefer living in the UK 

Edited October 25, 2018 by vinny41

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

From Twitter -

 

Brexit is such a waste of time, money and resources. The young voters will ensure we either remain or rejoin. The money spent on Brexit could have been used to save lives of less fortunate people in the uk. That would be a real government serving the people.

I can only assume you are embarrassed to provide a link It doesn't really matter as there will be no 3rd referendum

[vinny41]

7 hours ago, mommysboy said:

I assume the quotes are verbatim

 

https://www.open-britain.co.uk/leave_campaigners_try_to_drop_their_false_promises

 

3.     Trade with the EU will not be harmed. “Our trade will almost certainly continue with the EU on similar to current circumstances…The reality is that the hard-headed, pragmatic businessmen on the continent will do everything to ensure that trade with Britain continues uninterrupted.” David Davis, speech, 26 May 2016

 

“The EU’s supporters say ‘we must have access to the Single Market’. Britain will have access to the Single Market after we vote leave”. Vote Leave, What Happens When We Vote Leave?

 

“there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market”, Boris Johnson, The Telegraph, 26 June 2016

Interesting let see who their directors are 

Joseph Carberry, Trevor Phillips, Richard Reed, Lord Peter Mandelson, Roland Rudd, June Sarpong, William Straw, Daniel Gieve, Sir Michael Rake

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Britain

 

Oh dear looks like your screwed with Mandy and Rudd on board starters for 10 who is Roland Rudd sister Amber Rudd

	2]

Edited October 25, 2018 by vinny41
added link

[welovesundaysatspace]

46 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

A dream shared by 3.8 million EI citizens living in the UK, its strange the Great EU the land of honey and milk and Project Fear isn't able to persuade them to upsticks and return for some reason they prefer living in the UK 

The EU doesn’t have to persuade anyone to return. The majority of UK wants to stay in the EU. They are  being forced against their will to leave by undemocratic Brexiteers and their accomplices in politics who deny them a referendum based on the truth and facts and rather go ahead implementing a referendum result that was based on lying to the people. That’s true totalitarianism. 

 

What will happen is easy to predict:

 

Every politician who isn’t completely out of his mind understands by now that campaigning to remain in or rejoin the EU will be a guaranteed victory in the next elections. That means either existing politicians and parties would have to turnaround 180 degrees and stop their “respect the referendum result” nonsense (which in fact means to ignore the people and implement the will of a radical minority). Or we might see new politicians or even a new party emerge who will leverage this opportunity. 

 

Either way, the UK will remain or rejoin the EU, then obviously on different terms and in an even closer membership than before. We might even see the Euro in the Uk. 

 

This will be good for everyone obviously. Only the grumpy old men somewhere in Whatsoeverbury and Pattaya will keep raging but eventually  will have died. In the end, we will have to say thank you to Boris & Co for bringing the EU and the UK and the EU itself closer together than before. 

Edited October 25, 2018 by welovesundaysatspace

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The EU doesn’t have to persuade anyone to return. The majority of UK wants to stay in the EU. They are  being forced against their will to leave by undemocratic Brexiteers and their accomplices in politics who deny them a referendum based on the truth and facts and rather go ahead implementing a referendum result that was based on lying to the people. That’s true totalitarianism. 

 

What will happen is easy to predict:

 

Every politician who isn’t completely out of his mind understands by know that campaigning to rejoin the EU will be a guaranteed victory in the next elections. That means either existing politicians and parties would have to turnaround 180 degrees and stop their “respect the referendum result” nonsense, which in fact means to ignore the people and implement the will of a radical minority. Or we might  see new politicians or even a new party emerge who will leverage this opportunity. 

 

Either way, the UK will remain or rejoin the EU, the obviously on different terms and in an even closer membership than before. We might even see the Euro in the Uk. 

 

This will be good for everyone obviously. Only the grumpy old men somewhere in Whatsoeverbury and Pattaya will keep raging but eventually  will have died. 

we will have to wait and see if Labour party agree with you a recent poll indicates 19 Labour MP would lose their seats

Jeremy Corbyn faces losing 19 MPs if Labour tries to block Brexit – shock poll claims

LABOUR will lose a swathe of MPs at the next general election if the party tries to block Brexit, an opinion poll revealed on Friday night.

 

Research showed that any attempt by Jeremy Corbyn's MPs at Westminster to frustrate the departure from the EU would lead to Labour candidates facing defeat in 19 of its 25 most marginal constituencies held by the party.

The survey, carried out by the polling firm IQR for the Brexit-supporting pressure group Global Britain comes on the eve of the start of the Labour conference in Liverpool, where delegates are expected to vote on calls for the party to back a second EU referendum.

Leave-backing Labour figures from tonight urged activists and trade union representatives at the gathering not to put the party's election hopes at risk by backing the call.

Kate Hoey, Labour MP for Vauxhall and a prominent Leave campaigner, said: "I'm not surprised at this. Whenever I go outside London I am constantly told by Labour supporters that they wish my party would stop playing politics on the issue of our leaving the EU and get on with ensuring the delivery of a proper Brexit."

Brendan Chilton, of Labour Leave, said: "This research confirms our view that if the party does commit to supporting a second referendum then it will lose far more than it gains.

"We will lose around 20 seats in the survey and see our vote depressed in many Tory-held seats as well.

"The majority of voters don't want a second referendum and want the Government to get on with Brexit.

"It is only a small group of people in London that wants a second referendum."

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1021087/brexit-news-jeremy-corbyn-labour-marginal-constituencies-global-britain-brexit-poll

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Jip99 said:

 

Straw-grasping has become the only weapon in your armoury.

 

Parliament will not renege on the undertaking of one of it's Prime Ministers.

 

Imagine what that would do for democracy...

 

 

..... Oh!..... you can't.

Just stating the facts

 

BTW parliament can never bind a future parliament

 

Dont make the mistake of believing that morality comes into it.

[damascase]

28 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Interesting let see who their directors are 

Joseph Carberry, Trevor Phillips, Richard Reed, Lord Peter Mandelson, Roland Rudd, June Sarpong, William Straw, Daniel Gieve, Sir Michael Rake

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Britain

 

Oh dear looks like your screwed with Mandy and Rudd on board starters for 10 who is Roland Rudd sister Amber Rudd

	2]

Of course, ignore the message, shoot the messengers and we will all be right...............

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

we will have to wait and see if Labour party agree with you a recent poll indicates 19 Labour MP would lose their seats

Jeremy Corbyn faces losing 19 MPs if Labour tries to block Brexit – shock poll claims

LABOUR will lose a swathe of MPs at the next general election if the party tries to block Brexit, an opinion poll revealed on Friday night.

 

Research showed that any attempt by Jeremy Corbyn's MPs at Westminster to frustrate the departure from the EU would lead to Labour candidates facing defeat in 19 of its 25 most marginal constituencies held by the party.

The survey, carried out by the polling firm IQR for the Brexit-supporting pressure group Global Britain comes on the eve of the start of the Labour conference in Liverpool, where delegates are expected to vote on calls for the party to back a second EU referendum.

Leave-backing Labour figures from tonight urged activists and trade union representatives at the gathering not to put the party's election hopes at risk by backing the call.

Kate Hoey, Labour MP for Vauxhall and a prominent Leave campaigner, said: "I'm not surprised at this. Whenever I go outside London I am constantly told by Labour supporters that they wish my party would stop playing politics on the issue of our leaving the EU and get on with ensuring the delivery of a proper Brexit."

Brendan Chilton, of Labour Leave, said: "This research confirms our view that if the party does commit to supporting a second referendum then it will lose far more than it gains.

"We will lose around 20 seats in the survey and see our vote depressed in many Tory-held seats as well.

"The majority of voters don't want a second referendum and want the Government to get on with Brexit.

"It is only a small group of people in London that wants a second referendum."

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1021087/brexit-news-jeremy-corbyn-labour-marginal-constituencies-global-britain-brexit-poll

So never mind what is goodfor the country and good for individuals, it's just politics that count

 

I understand that if Labour backs remain, the Tories will loose 20 of their most marginal seats

[vinny41]

13 hours ago, Grouse said:

Well that's a typical Brexiter attitude

 

You see I am a social democrat and appreciate civil society and social justice. You know, civilisation.

 

Both the EU and I do not wish to have a low tax, low wage, low egalitarian, low standard, low class economy anywhere near.

 

But thanks for the offer

 

I hear the USA is good for those kind of priorities

In your own words "You see I am a social democrat and appreciate civil society and social justice. You know, civilisation."

Strange that if you are all on the above what are you doing in Thailand

I suggest you might want to look at Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Iceland and to some degree Germany for all of the above

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

So never mind what is goodfor the country and good for individuals, it's just politics that count

 

I understand that if Labour backs remain, the Tories will loose 20 of their most marginal seats

And you can provide a link to confirm that or is it pure bull 

[tebee]

18 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Just stating the facts

 

BTW parliament can never bind a future parliament

 

Dont make the mistake of believing that morality comes into it.

Just imagine - trying to use morality and politician in the same sentence -  these days they don't co-exist. 

[tebee]

[tebee]

54 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

In your own words "You see I am a social democrat and appreciate civil society and social justice. You know, civilisation."

Strange that if you are all on the above what are you doing in Thailand

I suggest you might want to look at Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Iceland and to some degree Germany for all of the above

I find Thailand an interesting pointer to what a post brexit might look like in a few years if the hard liners get their way.