UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[tebee]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

Ironically then, another solution that seems to be acceptable to many leavers and remainers alike would be just to exit no deal.  It saves having to deal with that crooked bunch in Brussels who wouldn't know a free trade deal from a pile of horse dung. 

 

If so, lets get on with it- take the initiative.

I don't think you'll find any remainers it will satisfy !

 

It's the stupidest of stupid ideas - you will try and crash a modern economy and refashion it on the lines of a 1930's one.

 

The only good point it would have is it will make our re-entry to the EU   quicker and more urgent. 

[3 minus 2]

On 8/10/2018 at 1:06 AM, smedly said:

at least the UK people got a vote

 

Most of what goes in Brussels the people have no say in the matter and the unelected commission run everything without the possibility of removal - how hilarious is that

 

I have seen polls that say the complete opposite to the one quoted in the OP but the fact remains the people voted to leave 

lets just put one urban myth the brexit pr campaign  made  the  'idiot  vote'  believe  and seemingly still do and constantly 

quote  and is 100% WRONG ,NONSENCE  call it what whaever you like but stop using it

 unelected commision = civil servants  the ELECTED representatives ie m e p's make the decisions and they are carried through by these employees just like our government  and ANY governing  body.  

Edited August 16, 2018 by 3 minus 2

[The manic]

On 8/10/2018 at 3:40 AM, tomacht8 said:

and why should the EU accept a boarder solution that is bad for them?

To save lives?

[3 minus 2]

8 minutes ago, tebee said:

I don't think you'll find any remainers it will satisfy !

 

It's the stupidest of stupid ideas - you will try and crash a modern economy and refashion it on the lines of a 1930's one.

 

The only good point it would have is it will make our re-entry to the EU   quicker and more urgent. 

but 'crashing' the economy is undoubtedly the game plan for the 'money' boys behind brexit, they have the funds to rebulid and make fortunes,  the ones that WILL suffer are the people on set and limited incomes ie pensioners the unemployed , low wage earners,, if it wasnt so borderline disastrous it'll make a great comedy sketch ie people shooting themselves in the foot,, 

[mommysboy]

14 minutes ago, tebee said:

I don't think you'll find any remainers it will satisfy !

 

It's the stupidest of stupid ideas - you will try and crash a modern economy and refashion it on the lines of a 1930's one.

 

The only good point it would have is it will make our re-entry to the EU   quicker and more urgent. 

And bring about a socialist government.  Then if not soft Brexit, what is the solution?  Please don't say another referendum!

Edited August 16, 2018 by mommysboy

[3 minus 2]

1 minute ago, mommysboy said:

And bring about a socialist government.  Then if not soft Brexit, what is the solution?

the solution is to adhere to the contract we signed 

[Stupooey]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

The independent is not in any way balanced coverage at all.

 

It is biased to Remain as the Express and the Mail are biased to many Leavers.

Although admittedly they were somewhat biased towards Remain, I stand by my comment that they were less biased than most. In the survey I quoted, out of 11 newspapers there were only two (The Times and The Star) whose coverage was found to be less biased towards one side or the other.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Stupooey
Posted when incomplete

[Stupooey]

25 minutes ago, 3 minus 2 said:

lets just put one urban myth the brexit pr campaign  made  the  'idiot  vote'  believe  and seemingly still do and constantly 

quote  and is 100% WRONG ,NONSENCE  call it what whaever you like but stop using it

 unelected commision = civil servants  the ELECTED representatives ie m e p's make the decisions and they are carried through by these employees just like our government  and ANY governing  body.  

Too many people remember Yes, Minister and its sequel, I fear!

[david555]

22 minutes ago, The manic said:

To save lives?

The same can be said for the U.K. "to save lives "...… was Ireland not an U.K problem ,was it not your colony , was your army not there to keep peace ?

[The manic]

1 minute ago, david555 said:

The same can be said for the U.K. "to save lives "...… was Ireland not an U.K problem ,was it not your colony , was your army not there to keep peace ?

Indeed. The Eurozars are using the issue to batter the UK into submission. But i assure when we voted to join the common market The Troubles were not mentioned.

[david555]

Just now, The manic said:

Indeed. The Eurozars are using the issue to batter the UK into submission. But i assure when we voted to join the common market The Troubles were not mentioned.

Of course as long you where in the E.U. that Irish problem did not exist ,.... but now it is dividing Ireland people a new..and have the guts and let them choose 

[3 minus 2]

4 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

Although admittedly they were somewhat biased towards Remain, I stand by my comment that they were less biased than most. In the survey I quoted, out of 11 newspapers there were only two (The Times and The Star) whose coverage was found to be less biased towards one side or the other.

there aint such a thing as an unbiased newspaper, it's all about the quantity and quality of information, i've compared the times to the telegraph to the guardian   these are the ONLY ones that give ANYWHERE  near a complete picture of events and looking hard at the quantity of info they give    ON ANY TOPIC  AT ANY TIME  covered by all 3 papers   the guardian wins hands down   and just a point to include ANY of the gutter press in virtually ANY comparison is just deluded, they sell to the gullible by ridiculous  sports coverage and ridiculous  head lines  ie nonsence  like ec ban  english   ect ect , which very unfortunately is where this nonsence that the ec 'bully us comes into play   

[The manic]

31 minutes ago, 3 minus 2 said:

lets just put one urban myth the brexit pr campaign  made  the  'idiot  vote'  believe  and seemingly still do and constantly 

quote  and is 100% WRONG ,NONSENCE  call it what whaever you like but stop using it

 unelected commision = civil servants  the ELECTED representatives ie m e p's make the decisions and they are carried through by these employees just like our government  and ANY governing  body.  

"The idiot vote" And there you have in a nut shell the demeaning of the majority by unprincipled anti democratic , remainers.  The arrogance of it.

[The manic]

1 minute ago, david555 said:

Of course as long you where in the E.U. that Irish problem did not exist ,.... but now it is dividing Ireland people a new..and have the guts and let them choose 

Nobody voted to join the EU in 1992. We voted for the common market. Perhaps the Irish should find a solution to their own problems

[3 minus 2]

1 minute ago, The manic said:

Nobody voted to join the EU in 1992. We voted for the common market. Perhaps the Irish should find a solution to their own problems

and 

 

4 minutes ago, The manic said:

"The idiot vote" And there you have in a nut shell the demeaning of the majority by unprincipled anti democratic , remainers.  The arrogance of it.

semantics , enlighten me why  calling it the  'idiot vote ' aint justified,

[david555]

11 minutes ago, The manic said:

/"The idiot vote" And there you have in a nut shell the demeaning of the majority by unprincipled anti democratic , remainers.  The arrogance of it.

I am talking about the Irish letting vote what they want....not your Brexit …. you can have that , nobody can stop you , but nobody can stop E.U neither to take controle on THEIR borders , it is not a one way thing all your Brexit .

Normally someone who leave is sure he/she  go to better future ….so leave, ...it is from beginning clear said by E.U. what was possible , only U.K. try it to force the other way.... leaving is saying goodby is that so difficult to understand ? And yes it would hurt E.U. too , but they accepted that thought already , is inheriting on any divorce both parties loose 

Edited August 16, 2018 by david555

[3 minus 2]

1 minute ago, david555 said:

I am talking about the Irish letting vote what they want....not your Brexit …. you can have that , nobody can stop you , but nobody can stop E.U neither to take controle on THEIR borders , it is not a one way thing all your Brexit .

Normally someone who leave is sure he/she  go to better future ….so leave it is from beginning clear said by E.U. what was possible , only U.K. try it to force other way.... leaving is saying goodby is that so difficult to understand ? And yes it would hurt E.U. too , but they accepted that thought already , is inheriting on any divorce both parties loose 

yep, classic of  leavers, on the whole they   are  just IGNORANT ie they ignore the problem and walk away and think   that  solves the problem  those living in the real world know problems WONT/dont ever go away by ignoring them  it just makes them worse  

[mommysboy]

7 minutes ago, 3 minus 2 said:

yep, classic of  leavers, on the whole they   are  just IGNORANT ie they ignore the problem and walk away and think   that  solves the problem  those living in the real world know problems WONT/dont ever go away by ignoring them  it just makes them worse  

But, the leavers would undoubtedly say many remainers haven't faced one very fundamental problem: they lost the referendum!  

 

From someone without strong views either way about Brexit (except I am sick of this omnishambles), I would say die hards on either side are dreamers.

Edited August 16, 2018 by mommysboy

[3 minus 2]

8 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

But, the leavers would undoubtedly say many remainers haven't faced one very fundamental problem: they lost the referendum!  

another gutter press assumption, that quite frankly is  just  ridiculous.   but  on the other hand when   a campaign has broken the rules in making its point then there HAS to be questions  on its validity or do you think other wise ?  

Edited August 16, 2018 by 3 minus 2

[david555]

2 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

But, the leavers would undoubtedly say many remainers haven't faced one very fundamental problem: they lost the referendum!  

That time yes with all the convincing lies they made up , but for know the leave camp is shitting his pants for a new referendum …..

But finally that is not the problem for the E.U. ….only they feel forced to keep this " charade of negotiations" going out of politeness …. , but believe me they made already more cogently plans than the U.K. ….. how ever can you negotiate with a Country government that is divided to the bone in it .

Let it be quick 29 march so this becomes solely U.K. problem , and E.U. handles only theirs 

[mommysboy]

6 minutes ago, 3 minus 2 said:

another gutter press assumption, that quite frankly is  just  ridiculous.   but  on the other hand when   a campaign has broken the rules in making its point then there HAS to be questions  on its validity or do you think other wise ?  

Yes I think otherwise.  Most definitely when people suggest there should be another referendum, or that a vote on a final deal should include a change mind option, or that most laughably at all that the referendum should be ignored as if it never happened, then what else is there to think?  

 

And likewise the hard line Brexiteers who still think we can reach some great deal, while ignoring the reality of the truly bad Chequer's proposal that has even been rejected by the EU.

 

All these things were justifiably considered a couple of years ago, but we've moved on.

Edited August 16, 2018 by mommysboy

[david555]

6 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

    Yes I think otherwise.  Most definitely when people suggest there should be another referendum, or that a vote on a final deal should include a change mind option, or that most laughably at all that the referendum should be ignored as if it never happened, then what else is there to think?  

 

And likewise the ...rd line Brexiteers who still think we can reach some great deal, while ignoring the reality of the truly bad Chequer's proposal that has even been rejected by the EU.

by thinking that way …., why making elections every  x years … , you could say we  won … so may never changed ….. a referendum is a kind of voting , suppose another government side wins and wish renew membership with E.U. 

What you go say then …. hello we are out and can never be in again ….. remember so many couples married until dead us part ….. and how many divorce …. peoples mind can change , and it is changing ,and fear the day the masses feel it hurting deep in their pockets and lives 

Edited August 16, 2018 by david555

[mommysboy]

1 minute ago, david555 said:

by thinking that way …., why making elections every  x years … , you could say we  won … so may never changed ….. a referendum is a kind of voting , suppose another government side wins and wish renew membership with E.U. 

If millions were out on the streets demonstrating, if opinion polls were showing a big shift in public opinion, if there was no reasonable solution such as soft Brexit, then it could be argued that another referendum would be advisable.

 

If another party wants to base its election campaign on the return to the EU, then so be it.

 

Most likely I would welcome these things, but it's fiction isn't it?

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, david555 said:

by thinking that way …., why making elections every  x years … , you could say we  won … so may never changed ….. a referendum is a kind of voting , suppose another government side wins and wish renew membership with E.U. 

What you go say then …. hello we are out and can never be in again ….. remember so many couples married until dead us part ….. and how many divorce …. peoples mind can change , and it is changing ,and fear the day the masses feel it hurting deep in their pockets and lives 

Have you got a tear in your chute?

[3 minus 2]

21 minutes ago, david555 said:

That time yes with all the convincing lies they made up , but for know the leave camp is shitting his pants for a new referendum …..

But finally that is not the problem for the E.U. ….only they feel forced to keep this " charade of negotiations" going out of politeness …. , but believe me they made already more cogently plans than the U.K. ….. how ever can you negotiate with a Country government that is divided to the bone in it .

Let it be quick 29 march so this becomes solely U.K. problem , and E.U. handles only theirs 

however much you want that last sentence it aint quite that simple is it. 

[david555]

1 minute ago, mommysboy said:

If millions were out on the streets demonstrating, if opinion polls were showing a big shift in public opinion, if there was no reasonable solution such as soft Brexit, then it could be argued that another referendum would be advisable.

 

If another party wants to base its election campaign on the return to the EU, then so be it.

 

Most likely I would welcome these things, but it's fiction isn't it?

To be honest I fear that could happen …., but I wish the U.K al the best of luck to go their way ,......but try not to change ours …...besides the whole Brexit from U.K. resulted in a pervert effect to UNIT the E.U as never was before  (and yes we still have our own problems still ) so thank you Brexiteers for that ?

I think Napoleon must be laughing his bones shaken in his tomb....

[david555]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Have you got a tear in your chute?

As a non native English I must ask you the meaning, as I never learned English in school , only French Dutch an German , English only from reading an hearing ….. so I miss your point , sorry for that 

[mommysboy]

3 minutes ago, david555 said:

To be honest I fear that could happen …., but I wish the U.K al the best of luck to go their way ,......but try not to change ours …...besides the whole Brexit from U.K. resulted in a pervert effect to UNIT the E.U as never was before  (and yes we still have our own problems still ) so thank you Brexiteers for that ?

I think Napoleon must be laughing his bones shaken in his tomb....

Whatever, but remember EU has no real intention of striking a reasonable trade deal.

 

And no your problems

2 minutes ago, david555 said:

As a non native English I must ask you the meaning, as I never learned English in school , only French Dutch an German , English only from reading an hearing ….. so I miss your point , sorry for that 

Is there a whole in your parachute?: I think he's suggesting you are in freefall.

[Scott]

Troll post removed.  

[mommysboy]

10 minutes ago, david555 said:

To be honest I fear that could happen …., but I wish the U.K al the best of luck to go their way ,......but try not to change ours …...besides the whole Brexit from U.K. resulted in a pervert effect to UNIT the E.U as never was before  (and yes we still have our own problems still ) so thank you Brexiteers for that ?

I think Napoleon must be laughing his bones shaken in his tomb....

Whatever, but really the problems for the EU haven't really begun- at best you would have rather a fearsome competitor to the EU right on your doorstep.  At worst, an economically depressed and vengeful state with military might- anything could happen!

Edited August 16, 2018 by mommysboy