UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[SheungWan]

7 minutes ago, rixalex said:

......I'll take immense satisfaction in seeing those who played a role in overturning democracy having their careers disintegrate and fall apart, as they most certainly will.

What is it with all the forum Hard Brexiteers having a collective breakdown this evening?

Edited November 6, 2018 by SheungWan

[billd766]

2 hours ago, adammike said:

Leave was 37 % of the electorate hardly the will of the people,leave won a vote by 52% to 48% again hardly the will of the people.

And how many people didn't even bother to vote at all.

 

If they were that interested they would have got off their arris to vote. 12,922,901 voters just couldn't be bothered so their votes were not counted.

 

Of the 33,551,983 people who could be bothered 17,410,742 voted to leave and 16,141,241 voted to remain. Now when I went to school the leave voters won the referendum. 

 

Now you can argue until the cows come home, but more people voted to leave than remain but it was the will of the people to leave.

 

It was the highest turnout of voters for years at 72.1%, far surpassing that of the past general elections going back many years.

 

Results

Votes%

Leave17,410,74251.89%

Remain16,141,24148.11%

Valid votes33,551,98399.92%

Invalid or blank votes25,3590.08%

Total votes33,577,342100.00%

Registered voters/turnout46,500,00172.21%

[rixalex]

It will be interesting to see if they dare!

I think they'll dare to try because they have become fanatical about this and have lost all sense of judgment.

How they will switch from having argued for so long about how it will be ok to ignore one vote and not implement an outcome, and how that somehow isn't anti-democratic, to then arguing, should they win this second referendum they are calling for, how the vote can't be ignored and has to be implemented for the sake of democracy, will be utterly ridiculous. Hypocrisy of gargantuan proportions like never seen before in British politics. But they don't care. They think they'll be able to argue their way out of it when the time comes. They won't.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

8000 tanks? Yearly. Really? Well they must sell a lot!

 

They had 244 combat tanks, with only 105 operational in February this year.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/36e2cd40-0fdf-11e8-940e-08320fc2a277

You miss the point. They COULD buy 8000 per annum with 2% of GDP. 

[Patriot1066]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

You miss the point. They COULD buy 8000 per annum with 2% of GDP. 

Yes but no one to drive them?

[Patriot1066]

9 minutes ago, rixalex said:

I think they'll dare to try because they have become fanatical about this and have lost all sense of judgment.

How they will switch from having argued for so long about how it will be ok to ignore one vote and not implement an outcome, and how that somehow isn't anti-democratic, to then arguing, should they win this second referendum they are calling for, how the vote can't be ignored and has to be implemented for the sake of democracy, will be utterly ridiculous. Hypocrisy of gargantuan proportions like never seen before in British politics. But they don't care. They think they'll be able to argue their way out of it when the time comes. They won't.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

No you are completely right it will be horrendous.

[Patriot1066]

18 minutes ago, billd766 said:

And how many people didn't even bother to vote at all.

 

If they were that interested they would have got off their arris to vote. 12,922,901 voters just couldn't be bothered so their votes were not counted.

 

Of the 33,551,983 people who could be bothered 17,410,742 voted to leave and 16,141,241 voted to remain. Now when I went to school the leave voters won the referendum. 

 

Now you can argue until the cows come home, but more people voted to leave than remain but it was the will of the people to leave.

 

It was the highest turnout of voters for years at 72.1%, far surpassing that of the past general elections going back many years.

 

Results

Votes%

Leave17,410,74251.89%

Remain16,141,24148.11%

Valid votes33,551,98399.92%

Invalid or blank votes25,3590.08%

Total votes33,577,342100.00%

Registered voters/turnout46,500,00172.21%

That’s democracy!!

 

We won Remain lost ,unless you want me to go through how to do maths again so remainers can work it out!

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46108633

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41971867

What have your posts to do with wanting Germany to increase defense spening to at least 2% of GDP

 

I would prefer a peace dividend by kicking America and their Pershing missiles well away

[Patriot1066]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

What have your posts to do with wanting Germany to increase defense spening to at least 2% of GDP

 

I would prefer a peace dividend by kicking America and their Pershing missiles well away

What about Russia?

Ideally no weapons in a world we don’t need them, but unlikely to happen!

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, Patriot1066 said:

What about Russia?

Ideally no weapons in a world we don’t need them, but unlikely to happen!

What about Russia?

 

You think they want to invade us???

 

Read the history

 

Do you think it was a good idea to bring all the former Warsaw Pact countries into NATO and/or the EU? Did the USA like it when Russia installed missiles on Cuba??

 

????

 

Where are our statesmen???

[Patriot1066]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

What about Russia?

 

You think they want to invade us???

 

Read the history

 

Do you think it was a good idea to bring all the former Warsaw Pact countries into NATO and/or the EU? Did the USA like it when Russia installed missiles on Cuba??

 

????

 

Where are our statesmen???

No I agree if I was Russia I would be a bit annoyed.

 

But they did it to create a greater buffer for the ‘Old Eeuropeans’ and of course expand better for rich big buissines.

 

Onviously not into Ukraine which I don’t blame him at all one tiny bit for )not( invading.

 

I was in Hungary last year with work we do our driver trading there, and the amount of people who have not benefited from capitalism was quiet large and the older people seem to look back on communism as a simpler more defined life. They really hated the EU, (quiet ironic).

 

Maybee the East will break up the EU in the end.

[Patriot1066]

Just now, Patriot1066 said:

No I agree if I was Russia I would be a bit annoyed.

 

But they did it to create a greater buffer for the ‘Old Eeuropeans’ and of course expand better for rich big buissines.

 

Onviously not into Ukraine which I don’t blame him at all one tiny bit for )not( invading.

 

I was in Hungary last year with work we do our driver trading there, and the amount of people who have not benefited from capitalism was quiet large and the older people seem to look back on communism as a simpler more defined life. They really hated the EU, (quiet ironic).

 

Maybee the East will break up the EU in the end.

Sorry my fingers are too big for the phone excuse the typos

[mommysboy]

The result is being respected.  if a deal can be done fine.  If it can't we need a rethink.  That's only sensible.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

47 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

And some Brexiteers wonder why they aren't taken seriously....... Well don't look up!

(Lovely weather in HK today, looking out over Victoria Harbour)

The incoherent waffling of a 1st class Remoaner ... Still '0 LIKES' though old son.  What a shame. ????

 

 

 

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

Not a representative sample far too small.

Which? Too small a sample or not representative? The sample size is fine. I do not know if the sample was representative it certainly was geographically representative.

 

A 20,000 sample is good for +/- 1% with 99% confidence.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Grouse

[Patriot1066]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Which? Too small a sample or not representative? The sample size is fine. I do not know if the sample was representative it certainly was geographically representative.

The numbers were too small per area to get an accurate finding. They must have published their potential estimated error rate but I can’t see it?

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

1 hour ago, rixalex said:

 

Indeed it is.

Re "doing as you say you will meaning nothing to them", can you imagine how quickly they would change their tune on that were there another referendum and were they to win? I bet then they'd be advocating for the sake of democracy that the will of the people had to be respected. I bet also that if it was then debated after they won about whether we should have a soft or a hard remain, or whether we needed another referendum to check people hadn't changed their mind, they would answer that remain should mean remain, and that the matter was decided once and for all, and that we should all just get on with remaining in the EU.

All I can say is, if remainers do get their way and manage to overturn the democratic vote, the undoubted hypocrisy dishonesty and treachery it will expose in them all, as they suddenly turn 180 degrees with all of the arguments they have been making over the last couple of years, will make an utter joke of them, and they'll be torn apart in any serious debate. I will take no satisfaction in the mess it creates for the country, that will far exceed any mess that would be created by Brexit, but I'll take immense satisfaction in seeing those who played a role in overturning democracy having their careers disintegrate and fall apart, as they most certainly will.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Quite right and well said.

 

'Re "doing as you say you will meaning nothing to them", can you imagine how quickly they would change their tune on that were there another referendum and were they to win? I bet then they'd be advocating for the sake of democracy that the will of the people had to be respected'.

 

It's perhaps the most absurd aspect of this furore around Brexit that IF the vote had gone the other way / or (heaven forbid) it is overturned and we revert back to the ludicrous EU dictatorship that we're attempting to rid ourselves of, then the Remoaner crowd would be the first to insist that democracy was upheld, and that we on the other side must just deal with the result etc.

 

I find that the increasingly trivial and petty arguments being made against the 'legitimacy of the vote' are becoming ever more reminiscent of petulant children whining that they didn't get their own way. It's pathetic to put it mildly and frankly not what I'd hope for from adults, many of who are supposedly 'highly educated' (sniggers).

 

It would be laughable, even hilarious if it wasn't the very independence and hence destiny of the nation that was at stake here.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, BwindiBoy said:

And this poverty occurred whilst in the E.U. right? So much for the E.U. Protecting its citizens! P.S. How much does it cost to move the E.U. Parliament from Brussels to Strasbourg every month? Considerably more than the cost of administering Brexit! 

You can not blame our gross inequality on the EU. Look at the Gini coefficients. Moronic voters allowed our government to do this. Embarrassing.

[mommysboy]

11 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

The numbers were too small per area to get an accurate finding. They must have published their potential estimated error rate but I can’t see it?

 

It was a good programme. It's pretty much what Remainers have been asserting all along.  I don't know if the final poll is valid or not, but the others were quite illuminating, particularly about freedom of movement.

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, nontabury said:

So what you’re suggesting, is that Parliament should ride roughshod over the will of the British people. Why not go the whole hogg, and ban the populace from voting, or even thinking.

Now there's an idea!

 

However, we have representative democracy for reasons that you have amply demonstrated. I think we'll leave parliaments sovereignty as it is.

 

Thanks for the idea though...

[kwilco]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

Thanks for that. I suspect that results reflects the current situation. Clearly, proceeding with the ridiculous Brexit idea now would not only be foolish but undemocratic.

Talk about a referendum and democracy is all just crap - you can't vote the earth flat.....

[vinny41]

12 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

The numbers were too small per area to get an accurate finding. They must have published their potential estimated error rate but I can’t see it?

Apparently 7% margin of error for sample size/population. and not everyone that took part is eligible to vote

 650 constituencies = 30 people polled per  650  650 constituencies = 19,500 people

https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=226071Most areas on this map have more than 30  signatures as part of the

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/226071

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Patriot1066 said:

You need to understand things before you comment!

 

White collar boxing is a voluntary club where people in jobs where you might not be attracted come to fight it is quiet civilised.

 

https://www.ultrawhitecollarboxing.co.uk/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3Yrp4_6_3gIVTbTtCh2XnwVBEAAYASAAEgL4LPD_BwE

 

There you go now you can comment knowing the facts 

 

Boxing for fun

Off topic

[mommysboy]

9 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Apparently 7% margin of error for sample size/population. and not everyone that took part is eligible to vote

 650 constituencies = 30 people polled per  650  650 constituencies = 19,500 people

https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=226071Most areas on this map have more than 30  signatures as part of the

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/226071

The Government and Opposition are not legally or politically compelled to do anything other than leave the EU. Nevertheless, I can't help but think there will be a big payback afterwards.  Perhaps we'll see a third party, or maybe Labour will get less fall out than the Tories.

 

I still think Brexit will go ahead but it's a death warrant for the Government.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

I stand corrected. It finally happened!

 

This must be a big night for you, no? ????

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

Please stop confusing Grouse with facts. You must know by now the only facts he believes in are the ones that are anti Brexit.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/01/24/afraid-of-a-major-conflict-the-german-military-is-currently-unavailable/?utm_term=.4216161c1c65

 

About half of all Leopard 2s — the tank which is most common in the Bundeswehr — were out of order as recently as November, which left the country with only 95 tanks of that type. By comparison, Russia is believed to have over 20,000 combat tanks, even though it is not known how many of them are operational.

What has the 2% to do with Brexit?

 

What would you like Germany to spend 80 billion USD annually for defense ON?

 

That was my point! 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Grouse

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

hmm,

seem to learn a bit about the nature of Brexiteers here,

people who indulge in violence against fellow humans

 

sad state the foggy islands is in, indeed

 

martial art my a

 

Better than remainers stockpiling humans humus.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

And how many people didn't even bother to vote at all.

 

If they were that interested they would have got off their arris to vote. 12,922,901 voters just couldn't be bothered so their votes were not counted.

 

Of the 33,551,983 people who could be bothered 17,410,742 voted to leave and 16,141,241 voted to remain. Now when I went to school the leave voters won the referendum. 

 

Now you can argue until the cows come home, but more people voted to leave than remain but it was the will of the people to leave.

 

It was the highest turnout of voters for years at 72.1%, far surpassing that of the past general elections going back many years.

 

Results

Votes%

Leave17,410,74251.89%

Remain16,141,24148.11%

Valid votes33,551,98399.92%

Invalid or blank votes25,3590.08%

Total votes33,577,342100.00%

Registered voters/turnout46,500,00172.21%

So what?

 

Thanks for the opinion.

[Grouse]

46 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

The numbers were too small per area to get an accurate finding. They must have published their potential estimated error rate but I can’t see it?

I've told you the error and confidence numbers. Just stats.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

You miss the point. They COULD buy 8000 per annum with 2% of GDP. 

Yes I missed your point. Silly of me. But the real point is that Germany is well able to afford their military commitment to NATO (as you show). To get their existing forces up to strength would use up a huge chunk of that 80B; all elements of their armed forces are far from fully operational, especially your favourite big cats. 

 

For defence against what? Who ever knows? Joint defence element for the EU, maybe?