2 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

Yes and we will take the bennefit of leaving it is no scam only utopia,

Tell you what then, you and your friends can leave, me and my friends can stay in.

Then we will both be happy

Enough "1066 and all that"

 

I will return when the level of debate returns to its usual informative level.

16 hours ago, billd766 said:

Not to mention the prefab houses.

 

 

 

This is where I lived as a child, Fleurs Place, Forres, demolished in 1963. Our hut was the second from the left facing down the cul de sac. I was brought up in poverty and wouldn't wish it on anyone. As posted, no insulation, only a small fire in the living room but getting fuel was a problem, had to scrape the ice off the inside of the windows in winter.

The problem today is there are people in need and professional scroungers but the government is not prepared the spend the required resources on proper administration. The name itself shows how they view the problem "Universal Credit".

22 hours ago, nauseus said:

I'm sure we'll get around that problem.

Of course they will deal with the problems, at the expense of essential services.

Imo..the problem lies at the door of blair..brown..straw..late robin cook..etc..they opened the floodgates re immigration..also the cost of the once again imo..illegal iraq war...just how much has that cost the UK taxpayer?????
G Brown made it very easy for people not to work and have a nice cosy lifestyle.
I used to see some of them in my local boozer/bookies..iphones for them..nothing but the best.
Asian immigrants with their 5/6 kids..
Labour have a lot to answer for by trying to buy votes!!!



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1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Of course they will deal with the problems, at the expense of essential services.

It is an essential service.

Imo..the problem lies at the door of blair..brown..straw..late robin cook..etc..they opened the floodgates re immigration..also the cost of the once again imo..illegal iraq war...just how much has that cost the UK taxpayer?????
G Brown made it very easy for people not to work and have a nice cosy lifestyle.
I used to see some of them in my local boozer/bookies..iphones for them..nothing but the best.
Asian immigrants with their 5/6 kids..
Labour have a lot to answer for by trying to buy votes!!!



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RACIST!!!!!

Blaming people that don’t look like you for the demise of your culture.

RACIST!!!!!

Blaming people that don’t look like you for the demise of your culture.

Racist?? Telling the truth more like..but then I am not a pc trendy left wing snowdrop perfect world dreamer.

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13 hours ago, billd766 said:

I received this email from Petitions: UK Government and Parliament

 

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Stop possible second referendum on E.U. membership”.

Government responded:

A clear majority of the electorate voted to leave the European Union. We must respect both the will of the British people, and the democratic process which delivered this result.

The Government is clear that we will respect the result of the 2016 referendum, and that we will not hold a second referendum.

A clear majority of the electorate voted to leave the European Union in the 2016 referendum. Almost three quarters of the electorate took part in the referendum, resulting in 17.4 million votes to leave the European Union. This is the highest number of votes cast for anything in UK electoral history. This was the biggest democratic mandate for a course of action ever directed at any UK Government.

Parliament then overwhelmingly confirmed the result of the referendum by voting with clear and convincing majorities in both of its Houses for the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill.

In last year’s General Election, over 80% of people then also voted for parties committing to respect the result of the referendum - it was the stated policy of both major parties that the decision of the people would be respected. The Government is clear that it is now its duty to implement the will expressed by the electorate in the referendum - respecting both the will of the British people, and the democratic process which delivered the referendum result.

The British people must be able to trust in its Government both to effect their will, and to deliver the best outcome for them. As the Prime Minister has said: “This is about more than the decision to leave the EU; it is about whether the public can trust their politicians to put in place the decision they took.” In upholding that directive to withdraw from the European Union, the Government is delivering on that promise. We recognise that to do otherwise would be to undermine the decision of the British people, and to disrespect the powerful democratic values of this country and this government.

The Government therefore continues to be committed to delivering on the instruction given to us by the British people: working to overcome the challenges and seize the opportunities this brings to deliver an outcome which betters the lives of British people - whether they voted to Leave or to Remain.

The people of the United Kingdom gave a clear instruction and the Government is committed to seeing that through. We will leave the European Union on 29 March 2019.

Department for Exiting the European Union

I also did Bill.

 

The signature requirement was met and surpassed about a week ago apparently. My dad also signed it. I sent him the link in the late morning - Thai time, he singed by around 3pm GMT the same day, by which time a further c.600 signatures had been added. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maXWm_mBgZw

 

- Worth a watch. It's an interesting debate that gets to the heart of the 'peoples vote' (cringes) issue among others. I respect the intellect of both, but Hitchens has integrity and principles, something Lord Adonis quite clearly needs a lesson in.  I know who I agree with too. Not sure I fully agree with PH about the Norway plan though. 

 

 

1 hour ago, malagateddy said:

Asian immigrants with their 5/6 kids

Immigrants and kids who would be the workers of tomorrow to sustain the UK economy.

• In recent years, the impact of an ageing population in the UK has also been mitigated by a rise in net migration levels but with the UK’s exit from the EU net migration levels will fall that will result in  a faster rise in the dependency ratio.
• A very big increase in the dependency ratio will consequently a cause for concern because, with current spending pension and healthcare commitments, it will place a higher burden on the shrinking working population.
• The easiest solution to an ageing population is to encourage young migrants of working age.

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/8950/society/impact-ageing-population-economy/

 

 

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

This is where I lived as a child, Fleurs Place, Forres, demolished in 1963. Our hut was the second from the left facing down the cul de sac. I was brought up in poverty and wouldn't wish it on anyone. As posted, no insulation, only a small fire in the living room but getting fuel was a problem, had to scrape the ice off the inside of the windows in winter.

The problem today is there are people in need and professional scroungers but the government is not prepared the spend the required resources on proper administration. The name itself shows how they view the problem "Universal Credit".

Anderson shelters in the yard too.

 

We were poor and my Mum and Dad always rented and always paid the rent on time. I used to get free school meals but was never picked on as there quite a few of us at the primary school in the same position.

 

I joined the RAF and for the next 25 years I always had somewhere to live. I bought my first house in 1984 and sold it for 100% profit 4 years later after a couple of years of negative equity. Sold that in 1988 and bought another and sort of lived there as I was starting to work internationally and lost it in 1998 during my divorce. I used to stay with friends when I wasn't working as a contractor, remarried in 2000 and we built this place in Thailand in 2003.

 

If I am forced to return to the UK then I will need somewhere to live while waiting for a council house possibly with my wife and son assuming that my income will be high enough to get her into the country. 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Immigrants and kids who would be the workers of tomorrow to sustain the UK economy.

• In recent years, the impact of an ageing population in the UK has also been mitigated by a rise in net migration levels but with the UK’s exit from the EU net migration levels will fall that will result in  a faster rise in the dependency ratio.
• A very big increase in the dependency ratio will consequently a cause for concern because, with current spending pension and healthcare commitments, it will place a higher burden on the shrinking working population.
• The easiest solution to an ageing population is to encourage young migrants of working age.

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/8950/society/impact-ageing-population-economy/

This same ideology applies to education of the future generations. One can think about it in a selfish way - there will be enough money to pay for our pensions and health expenditures once we reach the pension age. 

 

The really old people, who are already enjoying pension, don't necessarily care about the future of the nation as their futures are most likely secured for now. But their kids futures are not secured. 

 

I'm not at all sure I'll ever receive pension. If the social security system goes down as there is not enough people paying for it, well.. I read somewhere that breathing helium is a good way to go in case I get cancer or kidney problems. 

Immigrants and kids who would be the workers of tomorrow to sustain the UK economy.

• In recent years, the impact of an ageing population in the UK has also been mitigated by a rise in net migration levels but with the UK’s exit from the EU net migration levels will fall that will result in  a faster rise in the dependency ratio.
• A very big increase in the dependency ratio will consequently a cause for concern because, with current spending pension and healthcare commitments, it will place a higher burden on the shrinking working population.
• The easiest solution to an ageing population is to encourage young migrants of working age.

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/8950/society/impact-ageing-population-economy/
 
 

Surely skilled educated English speaking immigrants would be a better requirement?
But what about the fact that automation is slowly doing away with peoples jobs?
Re financing the nhs.. that will always be an ongoing problem as people are living longer due to advances in medical science..new wonder pills etc.
Re pensions..if the current and future UK govt kept their noses out of conflicts many miles away..and abolished all foreign aid..surely that would help the pension " kitty ".


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7 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

Typical remainer remarks and one who doesn't realise the EU will be finished when we leave that's why they are trying to lock us in. 

 

The EU in its present form will be no more in 20 years time! I hope it disintegrates very quickly indeed in fact collapses into its own swamp and gets swept away on its own gravy chain. Hopefully you will want to catch that boat?

 

o is that a snowflake?

There's a uk gravy train waiting at the station.

2 minutes ago, oilinki said:

This same ideology applies to education of the future generations. One can think about it in a selfish way - there will be enough money to pay for our pensions and health expenditures once we reach the pension age. 

 

The really old people, who are already enjoying pension, don't necessarily care about the future of the nation as their futures are most likely secured for now. But their kids futures are not secured. 

 

I'm not at all sure I'll ever receive pension. If the social security system goes down as there is not enough people paying for it, well.. I read somewhere that breathing helium is a good way to go in case I get cancer or kidney problems. 

There would have been plenty of money for pension if the successive governments had ring fenced it and invested the money.

 

Funnily enough when I was working and paying national insurance it never bothered me that I was helping to pay for pensions for my parents and other older people. 

 

Part of your problem is that you assume that older people don't care about younger people. Who do you think are the parents and grandparents of the younger generation?

 

That their children and grandchildren future is not assured is not due to the older generation who have paid taxes all their lives and many still do but to the stupidity of successive governments not investing the money.

 

Don't worry about not getting a pension. You are an EU citizen and the EU always looks after its own.

1 hour ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

I also did Bill.

 

The signature requirement was met and surpassed about a week ago apparently. My dad also signed it. I sent him the link in the late morning - Thai time, he singed by around 3pm GMT the same day, by which time a further c.600 signatures had been added. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maXWm_mBgZw

 

- Worth a watch. It's an interesting debate that gets to the heart of the 'peoples vote' (cringes) issue among others. I respect the intellect of both, but Hitchens has integrity and principles, something Lord Adonis quite clearly needs a lesson in.  I know who I agree with too. Not sure I fully agree with PH about the Norway plan though. 

 

 

Clearly a majority of the electorate did not vote to leave the EU,37% of the electorate voted leave.

20 minutes ago, billd766 said:

There would have been plenty of money for pension if the successive governments had ring fenced it and invested the money.

 

Funnily enough when I was working and paying national insurance it never bothered me that I was helping to pay for pensions for my parents and other older people. 

 

Part of your problem is that you assume that older people don't care about younger people. Who do you think are the parents and grandparents of the younger generation?

 

That their children and grandchildren future is not assured is not due to the older generation who have paid taxes all their lives and many still do but to the stupidity of successive governments not investing the money.

 

Don't worry about not getting a pension. You are an EU citizen and the EU always looks after its own.

 

If we would live in the same country, I would have been paying for your pension by paying taxes which is then redistributed and partly going to your pension. Just like you did for your parents. I have no problem with that.

 

Now, if there is not enough people to pay taxes when I reach my pension age in 20 years, I will not receive the same benefits as you are enjoying right now. 

 

For you this problem doesn't matter as you are already financially secured by me, the work I do and the taxes I pay so that you'll get your pension. It's a whole different ballgame in 20-40 years, when I should receive pension. If there is not enough people to work and pay taxes.. well helium it is.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

Immigrants and kids who would be the workers of tomorrow to sustain the UK economy.

• In recent years, the impact of an ageing population in the UK has also been mitigated by a rise in net migration levels but with the UK’s exit from the EU net migration levels will fall that will result in  a faster rise in the dependency ratio.
• A very big increase in the dependency ratio will consequently a cause for concern because, with current spending pension and healthcare commitments, it will place a higher burden on the shrinking working population.
• The easiest solution to an ageing population is to encourage young migrants of working age.

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/8950/society/impact-ageing-population-economy/

 

 

 

OK look, there is a BIG difference between open door immigration and controlled, sustainable immigration.

 

Leaving the EU single market (if that is what happens) will not mean an end to immigration and no one on the leave side has ever suggested it a) would do -or- b) should do.

 

Import of unskilled labour thus far being unrestricted has meant it's been at a huge surplus in multiple sectors within the UK and so has damaged those at the poorer end of society most. It is not beneficial to the UK in the long term. Said immigrants (particularly those from developing EU nations) do benefit the UK - without question, especially in the short term, but as well as paying in to the system and providing labour they have ALSO historically represented an added strain on already overstretched public services, housing requirements and our ridiculous state benefit system. Furthermore a great proportion of those immigrants who come to the UK from the EU reside and work in the UK on a short-medium term basis, whilst saving and then sending much of their earnings back to their country of origin. I don't blame any of them for doing this, that's why the majority came in the first place, but it should be understood and accepted, not distorted for political gain. Immigrants are not and can not be a long term solution to our problems, as they come, work (often doing hard jobs that a certain element of British society seemingly aren't willing to do) and then very often return to their homeland within a relatively short period of time, as is their prerogative. Again - NOT a long term solution to the issues you raise above.

Another point to make (which Farage et al have done many times) is that immigrants (the ones who stay) age and fatigue like the rest of us - so at uncontrolled rates they both add to the burden on our aforementioned services, housing and benefits systems as well as to the ageing population if they do stay longer term (especially those who are older when they emigrate).

 

I for one, have never blamed 'immigrants' for our problems or mistaken them as being the root cause of the issue - they're simply taking advantage of the opportunity to better their circumstances, natural and understandable enough. Having worked with a fair few Eastern European immigrants back home, I always found them to be hard working, punctual and affable. They were appreciative of the opportunity to earn more and where I lived they were welcomed and integrated well enough into the community. However, I also recognise that Cambridge isn't and never was subject to the vast waves of immigration that larger metropolitan areas were and is a wealthier city that -on average- lacks the same economic & sociopolitical issues that plague inner city London/Manchester/B'ham/Stoke/Teeside and the like. I therefore don't assume that the situation I experienced in Cambs is uniform across the country. There is a huge wealth of evidence (statistical, empirical and anecdotal) that is to the contrary. 

 

Just to add one point - ALL of the local British people I worked with, who too worked alongside our immigrant colleagues, never had any issue with them - we all got on just fine. This is, I believe, the norm, and not the opposite. So I never bought the whole 'racist, bigot, National Front' slurs which were so condescendingly thrown as a blanket term over those of us who are FOR Leave and AGAINST mass immigration. It's a load of <deleted> and is so often propagated by people who have no experience working in ordinary jobs or struggling to survive in the fractured economy that we have suffered in the UK for so long, and so therefore have little-no experience of the reality of the situation. That being  - Britain is overall one of the most tolerant societies in the world and has been for years. So many of the problems that have befallen our nation in recent times would never have come about if we weren't as tolerant and accepting as were are. 

 

The real blame should of course be assigned to the elites/political classes and the metro-intelligentsia in the media who are both the architects (rubber stampers of policy from Brussels) and supporters, respectively, of the policies that have divided and scarred the country so. They themselves neither feel the effects or suffer the consequences of these policies and so therefore have NO LEGITIMACY discussing any of it.

The vote to Leave was a protest against such people in both the UK & EU Parliaments; against their apathy for the working man and the transformation of his community. It was NOT a vote for racism, isolationism or nostalgia. The fact that the latter is still aimed at people who have been hurt most by all this in such a sneering, accusatory manner by those who are so grossly misinformed about the reality of the situation simply infuriates me. We must redress the balance. Leaving the EU *could* let's hope be a first step to regaining sovereignty and doing just that.

 

RANT OVER. ????

 

 

 

54 minutes ago, adammike said:

Clearly a majority of the electorate did not vote to leave the EU,37% of the electorate voted leave.

Uuugh...Yawn.

 

52%-48% is a majority WIN, no matter which way you cut demographics or non-voters. Those who did vote and the way they voted are what counts. Enough with these deflective, straw-man arguments. Grow up, accept it and please move on. There are more pressing matters at hand now. People must stop harking back to what was a clear win for Leave. It happened 2 and a half years ago! We should be looking to the future now, not the past.

25 minutes ago, adammike said:

Clearly a majority of the electorate did not vote to leave the EU,37% of the electorate voted leave.

What a load of rubbish.

 

Equally clearly 27% of the voting population didn't care either way and was not interested in the outcome or they would have voted.

 

So the majority of the population who DID care and were interested enough to vote leave won the vote.

 

No matter which way you try to swing it, the vote was to leave.

 

If you want to split the other 27% of no voters between leave and remain and keeping the proportion the same put 52% to leave and 48% to remain then the leavers would have had a larger majority.

6 hours ago, kwilco said:

Yet another example of Brexiteer ignorance, it is quite clear you have know idea who economists for free trade are and how ridiculed they are by economists.

You really need to learn how to analyse sources and their messages.....if ever there was an agenda ( Brexiteer cliche) there is one with this org.

 

Here is whata Jacob Rees Mogg - working class hero and main force behind EFFT - has to say about the UK economy after Brexit. 

50 years to recover....how old will YOU  be then?

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jacob-rees-mogg-economy-brexit_uk_5b54e3b5e4b0de86f48e3566?ncid=other_facebook_eucluwzme5k&amp;utm_campaign=share_facebook&amp;fbclid=IwAR0Ti0ai3nDDclpri0KvCLWiVqy3NS6VhC439yr6iYiyZ92vR6JIU102ZFo

Slow down my little europhile remained friends

 

See mogmentum he is much more popular than you think! Like a posh Trump!

 

I really don’t care too much about what the elite say I want my country wrestled from foreign control. And do not want to be part of the EU army which remainers fibbed about and said it wasn’t planned.

 

Mog Farage and Gove should be knighted for their efforts in exposing the evil EU.

29 minutes ago, billd766 said:

What a load of rubbish.

 

Equally clearly 27% of the voting population didn't care either way and was not interested in the outcome or they would have voted.

 

So the majority of the population who DID care and were interested enough to vote leave won the vote.

 

No matter which way you try to swing it, the vote was to leave.

 

If you want to split the other 27% of no voters between leave and remain and keeping the proportion the same put 52% to leave and 48% to remain then the leavers would have had a larger majority.

We won and we are leaving simply get over it and let us get on with the job of separating from the evil empire!

 

And hoping it disintegrated soon.

39 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

Uuugh...Yawn.

 

52%-48% is a majority WIN, no matter which way you cut demographics or non-voters. Those who did vote and the way they voted are what counts. Enough with these deflective, straw-man arguments. Grow up, accept it and please move on. There are more pressing matters at hand now. People must stop harking back to what was a clear win for Leave. It happened 2 and a half years ago! We should be looking to the future now, not the past.

Yep remainers need maths lessons it seems. Hiding begins their self righteousness and super intelligence they believe they have.

 

You lost get over it!

40 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

Uuugh...Yawn.

 

52%-48% is a majority WIN, no matter which way you cut demographics or non-voters. Those who did vote and the way they voted are what counts. Enough with these deflective, straw-man arguments. Grow up, accept it and please move on. There are more pressing matters at hand now. People must stop harking back to what was a clear win for Leave. It happened 2 and a half years ago! We should be looking to the future now, not the past.

No remainers can’t do percentages!

 

or accept their loss of their beloved EU as it edged away like the sands of time ????????????????????????????????????????

24 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

No remainers can’t do percentages!

 

or accept their loss of their beloved EU as it edged away like the sands of time ????????????????????????????????????????

35 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

Nice one time is running out for the EU????

1 hour ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

OK look, there is a BIG difference between open door immigration and controlled, sustainable immigration.

 

Leaving the EU single market (if that is what happens) will not mean an end to immigration and no one on the leave side has ever suggested it a) would do -or- b) should do.

 

Import of unskilled labour thus far being unrestricted has meant it's been at a huge surplus in multiple sectors within the UK and so has damaged those at the poorer end of society most. It is not beneficial to the UK in the long term. Said immigrants (particularly those from developing EU nations) do benefit the UK - without question, especially in the short term, but as well as paying in to the system and providing labour they have ALSO historically represented an added strain on already overstretched public services, housing requirements and our ridiculous state benefit system. Furthermore a great proportion of those immigrants who come to the UK from the EU reside and work in the UK on a short-medium term basis, whilst saving and then sending much of their earnings back to their country of origin. I don't blame any of them for doing this, that's why the majority came in the first place, but it should be understood and accepted, not distorted for political gain. Immigrants are not and can not be a long term solution to our problems, as they come, work (often doing hard jobs that a certain element of British society seemingly aren't willing to do) and then very often return to their homeland within a relatively short period of time, as is their prerogative. Again - NOT a long term solution to the issues you raise above.

Another point to make (which Farage et al have done many times) is that immigrants (the ones who stay) age and fatigue like the rest of us - so at uncontrolled rates they both add to the burden on our aforementioned services, housing and benefits systems as well as to the ageing population if they do stay longer term (especially those who are older when they emigrate).

 

I for one, have never blamed 'immigrants' for our problems or mistaken them as being the root cause of the issue - they're simply taking advantage of the opportunity to better their circumstances, natural and understandable enough. Having worked with a fair few Eastern European immigrants back home, I always found them to be hard working, punctual and affable. They were appreciative of the opportunity to earn more and where I lived they were welcomed and integrated well enough into the community. However, I also recognise that Cambridge isn't and never was subject to the vast waves of immigration that larger metropolitan areas were and is a wealthier city that -on average- lacks the same economic & sociopolitical issues that plague inner city London/Manchester/B'ham/Stoke/Teeside and the like. I therefore don't assume that the situation I experienced in Cambs is uniform across the country. There is a huge wealth of evidence (statistical, empirical and anecdotal) that is to the contrary. 

 

Just to add one point - ALL of the local British people I worked with, who too worked alongside our immigrant colleagues, never had any issue with them - we all got on just fine. This is, I believe, the norm, and not the opposite. So I never bought the whole 'racist, bigot, National Front' slurs which were so condescendingly thrown as a blanket term over those of us who are FOR Leave and AGAINST mass immigration. It's a load of <deleted> and is so often propagated by people who have no experience working in ordinary jobs or struggling to survive in the fractured economy that we have suffered in the UK for so long, and so therefore have little-no experience of the reality of the situation. That being  - Britain is overall one of the most tolerant societies in the world and has been for years. So many of the problems that have befallen our nation in recent times would never have come about if we weren't as tolerant and accepting as were are. 

 

The real blame should of course be assigned to the elites/political classes and the metro-intelligentsia in the media who are both the architects (rubber stampers of policy from Brussels) and supporters, respectively, of the policies that have divided and scarred the country so. They themselves neither feel the effects or suffer the consequences of these policies and so therefore have NO LEGITIMACY discussing any of it.

The vote to Leave was a protest against such people in both the UK & EU Parliaments; against their apathy for the working man and the transformation of his community. It was NOT a vote for racism, isolationism or nostalgia. The fact that the latter is still aimed at people who have been hurt most by all this in such a sneering, accusatory manner by those who are so grossly misinformed about the reality of the situation simply infuriates me. We must redress the balance. Leaving the EU *could* let's hope be a first step to regaining sovereignty and doing just that.

 

RANT OVER. ????

 

 

 

It’s not a rant but a well thought out review of a corrupt unaccountable EU.

 

Would you trust your life savings in the hands of a bank that can’t audit their accounts.

 

No so why do remainers trust the EU as they can not explain where our money goes?

 

Simple maths shows we are correct we won’t and your post eloquently explains the situation.

 

No rant just the truth - Well done ????

 

 

13 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

It’s not a rant but a well thought out review of a corrupt unaccountable EU.

 

Would you trust your life savings in the hands of a bank that can’t audit their accounts.

 

No so why do remainers trust the EU as they can not explain where our money goes?

 

Simple maths shows we are correct we won’t and your post eloquently explains the situation.

 

No rant just the truth - Well done ????

 

 

Thank you kindly, Patriot. It's high time people woke up to the facts and took opinion and emotional reaction out of it. 

I say 'rant' because at times I'm a bit verbose and this can understandably turn people off. ???? It's difficult to convey one's feelings about such a complex situation concisely, however.

On 11/6/2018 at 6:32 PM, Grouse said:

Roughshod by the not terribly bright, the not doing so well, the ones who feel tertiary education is a waste of time, the monoglots. Who's going to complain? ????

Why do you always feel the need to resort to insults against those with a different opinion?

 

Anyone with any intelligence at all would, by now, have realised that an 'argument' devoid of comment - and consisting only of insults - is pointless ????.....

9 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

Yes and we will take the bennefit of leaving it is no scam only utopia,

Given the choice of being run by the EU, and this atrocious Tory Government, then I think it's entirely prudent to remain in a transition period for as long as possible in the hope that a better government might manifest- there again pigs might fly!