UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[melvinmelvin]

16 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

The United States contributes the most to the alliance, funding around 70 per cent of Nato spending.

This adds up to roughly £501billion, or two thirds of total spending on national budgets.

According to 2017 figures, Greece is the second highest giver, spending roughly two per cent of its GDP, with the UK coming a close third.

 

Of the 28 countries paying into NATO as % of GDP Germany is 17th at approx 1.2%. UK pays over the 2% threshold.

https://www.euronews.com/2018/07/10/nato-contributions-country-by-country

 

 

no

 

us pays most

then germany

then france

then uk at 10 % of the budget

 

we are talking about the budget

 

not about new year eve fire crackers

 

 

 

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

no

 

us pays most

then germany

then france

then uk at 10 % of the budgetC

 

we are talking about the budget

 

not about new year eve fire crackers

 

 

 

Can you provide a link please

[Chelseafan]

4 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

no

 

us pays most

then germany

then france

then uk at 10 % of the budget

 

we are talking about the budget

 

not about new year eve fire crackers

 

 

 

Germany pays 1.2%. of their GDP of 3.677t = 4.4b US dollars

UK Pays 2.14% of their GDP of 2.622t = 5.6b US dollars

This is the budget. UK pays more than Germany and significantly more per capita.

 

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2018/03/10/how-much-do-nato-member-nations-spend-on-defense/

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

Nice find the BrexitBin ......

David Davies has gone rogue attempting trade deals in the US. Poor man he should have taken notes at the first meeting and concentrated on his brief. 

 

Here's a good quote Brexiteers should hang their heads in shame in taking us into an unwinnable battle. 

 

In the clear light of day, the EU have out-pokered us completely. Which is not surprising, considering they are some of the best negotiaters in the world. Indeed, we became the 5th largest economy on the back of such negotiators. But Brexiters thought they could do it better.

Edited November 18, 2018 by beautifulthailand99
.

[Chelseafan]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

Read the whole of this twitter thread and weep!

 

We have been outmaneuvered by Brussels who used our own incompetence against us.

 

 

Brexiteers did not maneuver the "homeland" into such a subservient position.

The incompetence of our government to negotiate led us to where we are today. We should have had skilled negotiators handling this rather than arrogant, single minded, politicians.

 

[Chelseafan]

8 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Nice find the BrexitBin ......

David Davies has gone rogue attempting trade deals in the US. Poor man he should have taken notes at the first meeting and concentrated on his brief. 

 

Here's a good quote Brexiteers should hang their heads in shame in taking us into an unwinnable battle. 

 

In the clear light of day, the EU have out-pokered us completely. Which is not surprising, considering they are some of the best negotiaters in the world. Indeed, we became the 5th largest economy on the back of such negotiators. But Brexiters thought they could do it better.

 

I disagree with that statement. Go back to the 1950's and the UK had the third biggest economy after the US and USSR.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_by_past_GDP_(PPP)

I could argue that joining the EU hampered our economy growth but there are of course many other factors.

Don't put too much faith in the ability of the EU to negotiate. I really think it's the lack of ability of our government to bargain that's made them look good.

 

[beautifulthailand99]

4 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

Brexiteers did not maneuver the "homeland" into such a subservient position.

The incompetence of our government to negotiate led us to where we are today. We should have had skilled negotiators handling this rather than arrogant, single minded, politicians.

 

What you and many like you don't seem to get it was the UK that asked to leave the club and wanted favours that the club would never give and why should they ? Destroy an organisation that has in large part brought peace, stability and prosperity to post war Europe. Which is one big reason that Putin focused on it with his troll lie factories and the like. Hopefully it won't be long before we find Farage , Banks et al in prison for high treason.

[Chelseafan]

Just now, beautifulthailand99 said:

What you and many like you don't seem to get it was the UK that asked to leave the club and wanted favours that the club would never give and why should they ? Destroy an organisation that has in large part brought peace, stability and prosperity to post war Europe. Which is one big reason that Putin focused on it with his troll lie factories and the like. Hopefully it won't be long before we find Farage , Banks et al in prison for high treason.

Firstly I am a remainer, I voted to remain and still believe we should remain however I do believe in democracy and that a bigger %age of the population voted to leave. I'm not sure what you mean by "many like me" but whatever.

 

I agree with you on your points regarding the EU. We cannot have our cake and eat it however, my point was that our bargaining position was a lot stronger (at least at the beginning of the negotiations) than our politicians believed. I don't blame the EU for their position however I do blame the likes of May, Davis and Johnson for giving away the kitchen sink and getting a plug in return.

 

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, nontabury said:

That’s been the problem from the beginning. They have never been in charge of the negotiations. This has been confirmed by both figureheads,  David Davis and Dominis Rabb,this very week.

 What treacherous Teresa should have done, was to have appointed Nigel Farage, the person who knows the workings of the E.U. better than any other Brit. In the hope that he’d have made such a mess of things, much like Ollie Robbins her fellow remoaner.

That's right; the hard-working David Davis and his brilliant successor were merely held back from doing great things. Just like Nigel Farage who unfortunately was unable to win a Parliamentary seat. Its great entertainment reading this HB rubbish, but it does make one wonder if there is anything of substance between the ears of those promoting such nonsense

[beautifulthailand99]

7 hours ago, mommysboy said:

What a week! It's difficult to take it all in.

 

I think the 'Gove gang' are deluded to think that we can go back and negotiate a better deal.  There's no point wasting precious time.  Let's get the deal before Parliament asap.

 

For me, inevitably, this comes down to WTO deal or no Brexit.  I'd be happy with either but I doubt we have a good enough government to steer us through the former.

 

Good I'm with you there will be no WTO so we agree on No Brexit. 

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

uk is paying 10% of the budget

germany - us - france is paying more than 10%

 

The recommended GDP for each country is 2%

Therefore only 5 countries are hitting this number.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by nontabury

[beautifulthailand99]

41 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

Germany pays 1.2%. of their GDP of 3.677t = 4.4b US dollars

UK Pays 2.14% of their GDP of 2.622t = 5.6b US dollars

This is the budget. UK pays more than Germany and significantly more per capita.

 

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2018/03/10/how-much-do-nato-member-nations-spend-on-defense/

 

 

Sincere apologies chelseafan I am drunk and replying in undue haste. 

[Chelseafan]

48 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

Germany pays 1.2%. of their GDP of 3.677t = 4.4b US dollars

UK Pays 2.14% of their GDP of 2.622t = 5.6b US dollars

This is the budget. UK pays more than Germany and significantly more per capita.

 

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2018/03/10/how-much-do-nato-member-nations-spend-on-defense/

 

 

Apologies, I just realised I'm out by a factor of 10....44b and 56b respectively.

 

[nontabury]

10 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Sincere apologies chelseafan I am drunk and replying in undue haste. 

Are you an alcoholic, as you do seem to make an habit of making mistakes?

[tomacht8]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

Great idea but 52% of the English will not understand the questions. Can you use mono syllabic words innit?

Ok in mono syllabic words .
EU means also, you can go anywhere in Europe where you want. You can live there indefinitely, work and can be equal under same. This is especially good for young people. They can broaden their horizons and can enjoy many freedoms the first post-war Generation never had.

[tomacht8]

29 minutes ago, nontabury said:

The recommended GDP for each country is 2%

Therefore only 5 countries are hitting this number.

 

 

Maybe other countries are not so warlike. Who says that 2% has to be delivered?
The UK should stop being the poodle of the United States. 
If Europe unites its defense budget, huge amounts of money could be saved. Generally only as much as necessary to defend yourself well.

[beautifulthailand99]

4 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Ok in mono syllabic words .
EU means also, you can go anywhere in Europe where you want. You can live there indefinitely, work and can be equal under same. This is especially good for young people. They can broaden their horizons and can enjoy many freedoms the first post-war Generation never had.

+ free phone roaming - no extra charges

+ free reciprocal healthcare 

+ much cheaper university education  - a bilingual son of a friend of mine is studying at university in Germany - fees 800 quid a year 

+ I've just enjoyed on offer in the Gran Canarias supermarket 6 small cans of Estrella Sur (on offer admittedly for 1.19 or about a quid)

Spain is wonderful if you get tired of Thailand - then look closer to home - great weather , great people and once we get to remain  great prices. 

 

 

[tomacht8]

1 minute ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

+ free phone roaming - no extra charges

+ free reciprocal healthcare 

+ much cheaper university education  - a bilingual son of a friend of mine is studying at university in Germany - fees 800 quid a year 

+ I've just enjoyed on offer in the Gran Canarias supermarket 6 small cans of Estrella Sur (on offer admittedly for 1.19 or about a quid)

Spain is wonderful if you get tired of Thailand - then look closer to home - great weather , great people and once we get to remain  great prices. 

 

 

I enjoy Thailand and i enjoy my trips to Europe.
Budapest, Prague, Bucharest, Lisbon, Barcelona, Hamburg were interesting trips, and soon Athens again, Amsterdam again and Paris again.
I think the idea of a common Europe is good.
Hard in the external borders, within the European borders the greatest possible freedom.

[beautifulthailand99]

Just seen this on Guido any Gammon with heart conditions look away now....articles 104 and 101 - #biggestestablishmentstitchupinhistory

 

This even to me is a shocker (if true).....

 

All EU employees, and former employees and MEPs (including both Kinnocks and Mandelson) will receive their pensions and salary free of tax.

No former or current EU employee, if charged with a criminal offence, will be prosecuted.

Edited November 18, 2018 by beautifulthailand99
can't beleive it

[tomacht8]

7 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Just seen this on Guido any Gammon with heart conditions look away now....articles 104 and 101 - #biggestestablishmentstitchupinhistory

 

All EU employees, and former employees and MEPs (including both Kinnocks and Mandelson) will receive their pensions and salary free of tax.

No former or current EU employee, if charged with a criminal offence, will be prosecuted.

They show this garbage in UK-TV?
 

[beautifulthailand99]

12 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

They show this garbage in UK-TV?
 

Not that I know of it was in the comments of a Guido Fawkes article. May is/was always a remainer and the talks were always going to be a stitch up from the off. Over at Guido they know leave is all over they are plotting how high to build the bonfire of betrayal and destroy the tory traitors. And they seem very happy to have Corbyn in if that what it takes to get the traitor May out. Quite extraordinary times indeed. 

Edited November 18, 2018 by beautifulthailand99
.

[nontabury]

38 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

+ free phone roaming - no extra charges

+ free reciprocal healthcare 

+ much cheaper university education  - a bilingual son of a friend of mine is studying at university in Germany - fees 800 quid a year 

+ I've just enjoyed on offer in the Gran Canarias supermarket 6 small cans of Estrella Sur (on offer admittedly for 1.19 or about a quid)

Spain is wonderful if you get tired of Thailand - then look closer to home - great weather , great people and once we get to remain  great prices. 

 

 

The ability of E.U citizens, who may never have previously set foot in the U.K. let alone pay U.K taxes, to gain a U.K university education, with the help of a Loan, financed by the British taxpayer. Many of whom then return to their home countries and conveniently Forgeting to pay the British tax payers the loan back.

The figure stands at approximately 1.3 Billion£+

Meanwhile the children of British ex-pats, who may also be British tax payers living in countries such as Thailand, are obliged to pay the full education cost, PLUS another 50%. Without the recourse to “their” Funded loan system.

 This has always been something that confuses me, Why are Some Brits only too happy to see their fellow citizens treated as 2nd class. 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by nontabury

[tomacht8]

8 hours ago, JAG said:

The cynical, but probably accurate view of a "common European army" is that it would resemble a slice of toast - except that you can make soldiers out of a slice of toast!

 

If we are to cite the collapse of Yugoslavia in any discussion about a "common European army" it is perhaps worth bearing in mind that with the exception of the British, French, Dutch and Danes the rest of the EU contingents were pretty ineffective. I know, I was there.

 

 

I can only agree.
The military readiness of the European troops is deficient.
Incredible waste of money.
No cooperation. All use different material.

[BwindiBoy]

5 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

If you didn’t know:

1. Merkel didn’t let anyone through Europe. Those refugees went through Europe themselves. 

2. Merkel is the chancellor of Germany, and Germany doesn’t have and EU external borders. EU internal borders are not enforced anymore. 

3. Based on what law exactly do you want to fine a country for complying with the Geneva Refugee Convention?

1. She encouraged them.

2. She / Germany lead control things, regardless.

3. They were refugees until they reached Turkey - once they left Turkey were economic migrants.

[candide]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

The ability of E.U citizens, who may never have previously set foot in the U.K. let alone pay U.K taxes, to gain a U.K university education, with the help of a Loan, financed by the British taxpayer. Many of whom then return to their home countries and conveniently Forgeting to pay the British tax payers the loan back.

The figure stands at approximately 1.3 Billion£+

Meanwhile the children of British ex-pats, who may also be British tax payers living in countries such as Thailand, are obliged to pay the full education cost, PLUS another 50%. Without the recourse to “their” Funded loan system.

 This has always been something that confuses me, Why are Some Brits only too happy to see their fellow citizens treated as 2nd class. 

 

 

It's a shame but these students are not necessarily from the EU. Actually the country with the highest unpaid debt amount is Australia.

[anon537687643]

Uk has politicians who pander to their immigrant constituents and NOT the “born and bred “ British folk ! Scandalous

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

[whatsupdoc]

5 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

Brexiteers did not maneuver the "homeland" into such a subservient position.

The incompetence of our government to negotiate led us to where we are today. We should have had skilled negotiators handling this rather than arrogant, single minded, politicians.

 

And in the case of no deal the UK will have to negotiate new trade deals with just about the whole world...

Going to be fun! Popcorn time.

Where are you going to get these skilled negotiators from?

[My Thai Life]

18 hours ago, bomber said:

add BMW,nissan,toyota,JL and the best part of 14000 Airbus jobs to the list and theres another 80k,never mind there will be plenty of work tattie picking in Lincolnshire

I wonder if you and Kwilco actually read the skynews article that Kwilco linked to and that you responded to. If you did then you misunderstood it.

 

Frankfurt Main Finance, the authors of the research reported by skynews, is a German lobby group, it estimates an influx of 10,000 financial services jobs into Frankfurt, not necessarily from the UK, plus a ripple effect of 70,000 more in other sectors. Frankfurt Main Finance is a lobby group representing Frankfurt.

 

Regarding your other points.

 

Put the UK car industry into perspective: it’s around 1% of GDP by the last estimate I read, a couple of weeks ago. Whatever the impact on the car industry, the effect on GDP cannot be significant.

 

Airbus is owned by EU governments, so I wouldn’t exactly describe them as impartial in their assessment or motivation.

 

The extent to which Airbus and the car industry will be affected depends upon the post-Brexit tariff and trade policy. The UK can unilaterally establish a tariff and trade policy in these sectors to maintain the status quo, this would be extremely simple and requires no negotiation with the EU. What the EU choses to do is its own business.

 

The concerns of these executives of foreign owned businesses, as represented by the CBI, have been well publicised in the press.

 

Yet the concerns of British business executives have been largely ignored by the press: this week executives from over 200 British businesses with a combined turnover of over £2 billion a year, and employing at least 45,000 people nationwide, signed a letter saying that May's deal “offers the EU carte blanche to impose uncompetitive and deliberately punitive policies on the UK, selling British business down the river”. It will be delivered to May this week.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/11/16/letter-signed-hundreds-business-leaders-urges-tory-mps-vote/

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by My Thai Life

[melvinmelvin]

6 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

Germany pays 1.2%. of their GDP of 3.677t = 4.4b US dollars

UK Pays 2.14% of their GDP of 2.622t = 5.6b US dollars

This is the budget. UK pays more than Germany and significantly more per capita.

 

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2018/03/10/how-much-do-nato-member-nations-spend-on-defense/

 

 

but that is for fire crackers - no the NATO budget

 

[melvinmelvin]

5 hours ago, nontabury said:

The recommended GDP for each country is 2%

Therefore only 5 countries are hitting this number.

 

 

this is not the nato budget

but mainly national fire crackers