UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[StreetCowboy]

I suppose one thing that should be remembered is that you can amend your will so long as you are alive and of sound mind.  I am not sure which of those two criteria is preventing a democratic review of the progress and direction of Brexit, but maybe in the longer term Brexit will prove to be only the first nail in the coffin

[bomber]

14 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Such as she would implement the Democratic vote of the people

This of course she has completely failed Tom do. A fact that even many of those who voted to remain acknowledge.

 As for lies, did not N.C and the Bureaucrats in Brussels categorically state that there was no intention of creating an E.u army. 

And very importantly, what you should be asking yourself. If we were to remain in this so called union. What would it look like in say, 10 years time.That is off course, if the E.u. Survives that long.

 

 

i dont see any harm in a european army,we have troops already in latvia and other nations which are all bar a few members of NATO,shame it didnt happen earlier and the nation would of saved billions and have 1000s of troops still alive instead of following uncle sam into illegal expensive unwinnable wars

[nauseus]

59 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

What does 2" mean? Shorthand for 2 inches?

 

If you mean at least two lies, name them!

Well interpreted but you have messed up the quotes.

 

But the 2" (inches) was a fair measurement of your long list of leavers lies that you were on about.

 

I wonder how many pages of lies could be compiled into the "Project Fear" compilation?

[7by7]

5 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Such as she would implement the Democratic vote of the people 

This of course she has completely failed Tom do. A fact that even many of those who voted to remain acknowledge.

It seems to have escaped your notice that May has triggered Article 50; we will be leaving the EU next March.

 

She has also said she will not call a second referendum; so unless she is replaced, come April next year we will be out. Not fully out at first as there will be a transitional period; unless there is no deal at all.

 

She is now attempting to negotiate an exit deal which is in the best interests of the country, You and many other Brexiteers may not agree with her on what is in the best interests of the UK.

 

You may also still believe she could have done better as we have the whip hand. Except we don't; the EU does. They are not obliged to give us a deal at all, let alone the one Brexiteers want; the one where we gain everything but give nothing.

 

12 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 As for lies, did not N.C and the Bureaucrats in Brussels categorically state that there was no intention of creating an E.u army. 

Lie or no; how is that a May lie or that of the Remain campaign?

 

Even if some EU politicians and bureaucrats do want an EU army, creation of such would require the unanimous approval of member states. Of course, Farage wont tell you that bit; he's too busy arranging German passports for himself and his kids.

 

Of course, EU countries have for many years co-operated on defence projects and decision making; we are allies. But that is a world away from an EU army controlled by the EU.

 

13 minutes ago, nontabury said:

And very importantly, what you should be asking yourself. If we were to remain in this so called union. What would it look like in say, 10 years time.That is off course, if the E.u. Survives that long

 I expect that it would look very similar to what it does now. A group of nations combined in a free trade area with joint rules governing that free trade and free movement and other issues such as health and safety at work.

 

Had we remained a member, we would have had a say in the making of those rules; if we go for the so called Norway plus option favoured by many Brexiteers we will still have to abide by them, but will have no say in the making of them. Still have to pay into the EU coffers as well, with no say on how the money is spent.

[StreetCowboy]

 

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Well interpreted but you have messed up the quotes.

 

But the 2" (inches) was a fair measurement of your long list of leavers lies that you were on about.

 

I wonder how many pages of lies could be compiled into the "Project Fear" compilation?

Why speculate? List them.

Maybe there were none

[7by7]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Well interpreted but you have messed up the quotes.

 

But the 2" (inches) was a fair measurement of your long list of leavers lies that you were on about.

 

I wonder how many pages of lies could be compiled into the "Project Fear" compilation?

My list may have been 2 inches; but it ended with Etc., Etc......

 

If the list of lies from the Remain campaign is so long; why can't you give at least one example?

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, bomber said:

i dont see any harm in a european army,we have troops already in latvia and other nations which are all bar a few members of NATO,shame it didnt happen earlier and the nation would of saved billions and have 1000s of troops still alive instead of following uncle sam into illegal expensive unwinnable wars

Well, how about if Uncle Sam hadn't followed us into WW2?

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

My list may have been 2 inches; but it ended with Etc., Etc......

 

If the list of lies from the Remain campaign is so long; why can't you give at least one example?

 

6 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

My list may have been 2 inches; but it ended with Etc., Etc......

 

If the list of lies from the Remain campaign is so long; why can't you give at least one example?

2 1/2 inches then.

 

And I was asking a question. ????

[7by7]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Well, how about if Uncle Sam hadn't followed us into WW2?

Nazi Germany would have been defeated by the Soviet Union.

 

As British and Commonwealth troops were already winning in North Africa before the US joined, then it is possible that the second front would still have been opened.

 

One can only speculate on how Europe would have looked after that.

 

 

[7by7]

7 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

2 1/2 inches then.

 

And I was asking a question. ????

Indeed, you asked 

 

18 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I wonder how many pages of lies could be compiled into the "Project Fear" compilation?

 That when asked for an example  you refuse to give even one example from the lies of so called 'Project Fear' mean that you accept that there were none?

 

Addendum; got to go now, so you've plenty of time to come up with an example.

Edited December 1, 2018 by 7by7
Addendum

[StreetCowboy]

19 minutes ago, Jim1000 said:

Why does Rees Mogg always look like he's slightly .unhinged ?

It’s a cabinetry problem. 

He might have a screw loose.  

We need joiners in the cabinet, not levers - they’ll just pry us apart

[evadgib]

5 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Yes, particularly the track "More Fool Me" ... dedicated to Brexiters.

'I know what I like' or 'After the ordeal' suit us better, as does 'We can't dance' (to EU tune!) from a later album.

[nauseus]

15 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Indeed, you asked 

 

 That when asked for an example  you refuse to give even one example from the lies of so called 'Project Fear' mean that you accept that there were none?

 

Addendum; got to go now, so you've plenty of time to come up with an example.

Yes, I refuse to comply. The football is coming on.

[Stupooey]

4 hours ago, billd766 said:

Actually it IS all about Brexit and Teresa May.

 

Whilst we Leavers voted to leave, the whole Brexit shambles has been led by Teresa May, a committed Remainer who is doing her best, or worst perhaps to give us a semblance of freedom whilst clinging to the EU apron strings. 

 

IF there was a committed Leaver at the helm from day 1 i assure you it would be a whole lot different.

 

My recollection is that, at the time of the vote, May was considered to be a closet Leaver who was going along with the Cameron narrative to preserve her then status. The reason none of the official Leavers wanted the job was that they realised it was a poisoned chalice,  as they had made no plans for Brexit. May was the sacrificial lamb, left to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

[Stupooey]

4 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

It seems a bit odd to me that no matter how many times Leavers post this leaflet the Remainers deny what it means.

 

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160813202542/https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk

 

The referendum on Thursday, 23 June is your chance to decide if we should remain in or leave the European Union.

The government believes it is in the best interests of the UK to remain in the EU.

This is the way to protect jobs, provide security, and strengthen the UK’s economy for every family in this country – a clear path into the future, in contrast to the uncertainty of leaving.

 

This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide.

 

I have made it bold and underlined so it should me easy enough, even for teebee and AdamMike to understand.

 

The UK voted to leave the EU yet the government under Teresa May STILL wants to keep us in, thus ignoring the bold and underlined statement.

 

This leaflet was just a piece of Tory propaganda, issued by the then (since superseded) Government. It could be taken with a pinch of salt....only it wasn't. It was like a red rag to a bull for many voters in the deprived areas of the Country, who have never forgiven the Tories for destroying their communities in the 1980s. The Brexit vote was not decided in the UKIP heartlands of Frinton-on-Sea and Skegness, it was in the traditional Labour constituencies (97% of whom had returned Pro-Remain MPs in the General Election one year earlier), whose voters delivered a resounding anti-Tory vote rather than an anti-EU one.

[AlexRich]

5 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

This leaflet was just a piece of Tory propaganda, issued by the then (since superseded) Government. It could be taken with a pinch of salt....only it wasn't. It was like a red rag to a bull for many voters in the deprived areas of the Country, who have never forgiven the Tories for destroying their communities in the 1980s. The Brexit vote was not decided in the UKIP heartlands of Frinton-on-Sea and Skegness, it was in the traditional Labour constituencies (97% of whom had returned Pro-Remain MPs in the General Election one year earlier), whose voters delivered a resounding anti-Tory vote rather than an anti-EU one.

I watched a short programme yesterday on Wales where people were saying the same thing ... it was two fingers to Cameron and Osborne ... and then it discussed the German factory in Swansea that is closing with the loss of 500 jobs.

[Stupooey]

4 hours ago, vogie said:

Have you got a link stating that it was only advisory, it certainly does not say anything like that on the referendum leaflet?

 

...and do you have a link stating what majority constituted a "decision"? 0.001%? Hardly decisive. 10%? Yeah, that's fairly decisive. So somewhere  in between, I guess.

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

Perhaps Davis was taken in by the blatant lies of T.May and her fellow remainer and side kick Olly Robbins.

Domanic Rabb then thought, he was taking over the Secretary of State, for Brexit. But again, he soon came to the conclusion that he was being used.

And immediately resigned.

Well then sort of inconvenient that Davis lied that he had prepared an impact document when he had done nothing at all. Zilch for 2 years. Never mind the perhaps this and perhaps that of Brexiteer making it up land.

As for Dominic Raab, another hopeless do nothing well over his head.

[Stupooey]

4 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

All they really cared about was getting drafted. Once the draft stopped, do did the protests.
 

 

Speaking as one who demonstrated against the Vietnam War as a teenager, I can categorically state that the fear of being drafted never came into it, since the UK sensibly stayed out of that conflict (unlike Iraq and Afghanistan).

[AlexRich]

6 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

...and do you have a link stating what majority constituted a "decision"? 0.001%? Hardly decisive. 10%? Yeah, that's fairly decisive. So somewhere  in between, I guess.

The Act of Parliament made no reference to how the result of the referendum would be implemented, and that is why it is considered advisory. It's well known so I was surprised to see your interlocutor bring it up?

Edited December 1, 2018 by AlexRich

[Stupooey]

4 hours ago, vogie said:

From your own link it clearly states.

 

In accordance with the Act and the public duty of the Electoral Commission, a guide was posted to every household in the UK and Gibraltar in the week beginning of 16 May 2016 by HM Government. The advisory leaflet was titled: "Why the Government believes that voting to remain in the European Union is the best decision for the UK". This leaflet clearly stated: "This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide".[12

 

Government propaganda. What sort of dunderhead would ever believe that?

[billd766]

4 hours ago, adammike said:

I have never questioned the result of the referendum or what was on the ballot,I have said from the beginning I would rather remain, failing that leave and do it fast as possible.If the UK leave without a deal I want it to be a total disaster so it destroys the Tory party for a couple of generations.I am not a fan of Jeremy Corbyn but I would be ok if he did become PM so he could bring the water,railways,electricity back into public ownership.You have blown Brexit as many said you would and now you want to pass the buck onto remainers who are not part of the process,Theresa May and Brexit are your bitches not mine,reap the whirlwind brexiteers.

Teresa May has never been a bitch of mine. She saw an opportunity and grabbed the poisoned chalice with both hands and proceeded to screw up Brexit from day 1.

[tebee]

8 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

Government propaganda. What sort of dunderhead would ever believe that?

By this time in their lives, most people should have learned never to trust any politicians promises.... 

[Stupooey]

3 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

Do you honestly think for one moment that if the true intentions of our “Betters” has been known,that we would have voted for this elitist creation. 

 

 

 

I certainly didn't vote for this elitist creation. Did you?

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

Government propaganda. What sort of dunderhead would ever believe that?

It is tebees link, not mine. What person uses expressions like "dunderhead" Only a person who posts rubbish and thinks he/or she is superior to others. It is really time you started to respect other posters.

[mogandave]

Speaking as one who demonstrated against the Vietnam War as a teenager, I can categorically state that the fear of being drafted never came into it, since the UK sensibly stayed out of that conflict (unlike Iraq and Afghanistan).

So why did you stop protesting?

[Stupooey]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Well, how about if Uncle Sam hadn't followed us into WW2?

Good to find one Leave supporter who doesn't think the Brits won WW2 single-handed. The Russians had a bit to say as well.

[tebee]

4 hours ago, vogie said:

From your own link it clearly states.

 

In accordance with the Act and the public duty of the Electoral Commission, a guide was posted to every household in the UK and Gibraltar in the week beginning of 16 May 2016 by HM Government. The advisory leaflet was titled: "Why the Government believes that voting to remain in the European Union is the best decision for the UK". This leaflet clearly stated: "This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide".[12

 

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

It is tebees link, not mine. What person uses expressions like "dunderhead" Only a person who posts rubbish and thinks he/or she is superior to others. It is really time you started to respect other posters.

 

But that link clearly states that the leaflet is only advisory - so nothing in it will affect the legal status of the referendum. 

[AlexRich]

Japanese prime minister Shinzo Abe pointing out, as diplomatically as he can, that the UK will miss out on Japanese investment should there be a no deal Brexit.  

 

Another point that remainers have been making since this vote. There is no reason for a non-EU company to set up a European operation in the UK anymore, as they will no longer have unfettered access to the EU. The Chinese were being courted by George Osborne for that very same reason, many of them choose English as their preferred foreign language ... all that will go somewhere else now. Over time we'll see them all reduce their investment and redirect their production somewhere else. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/01/shinzo-abe-to-theresa-may-avoid-a-no-deal-brexit-eu

[vogie]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

 

 

But that link clearly states that the leaflet is only advisory - so nothing in it will affect the legal status of the referendum. 

Lets not play games with each other tebee, it also states that the government will implement what you decide.