It's Highway Robbery! Thais scream in protest at new fines calling them an excuse for more police corruption

[cookieqw]

27 minutes ago, chang1 said:

There seems to be quite a few on here with this opinion. We all know about the corruption. If people obey the law there would be much less corruption as people would have more reason to complain. Who complains when the backhander is less than the fine that they should have paid? As a person who has suffered in a coach crash and known more people who have been injured or died on Thai roads than on UK roads in the relatively short time spent in Los, I can easily believe Thai roads are the world's most dangerous. Doing nothing can not be an option. Whether you pay a fine or a bribe you are still encouraged to get a license. You will also think twice before drinking and driving if you know you will lose that license. The next stage is make the license harder to get so only those who are competent enough to pass a rigorous test are on the roads. Then retesting those who drive badly could start. 

If you don't have severe deterrents people won't bother to change. 

Why not increase VAT to subsidize driver training and testing? I was off work for 18 months - cost me far more than a couple of percent extra VAT would in many years.

How would you get people better trained and pay for it without "laws and punishments"?

the law is already there   -   just enforce it,   lets see how many police are put outside the schools to catch offenders ?????

[chang1]

37 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

Seems to me that all the huffing and puffing by the farangs its hypocrisy. Thailand is a third world country with lots of poor people. Denying them the ability to travel and conduct normal commerce is not a step forward.

Why is it hypocritical? We already have heavy fines and far safer roads. Vehicles cost far more than a license so money is no excuse. Children can use bicycles. Thailand will not grind to a halt as long as people are given time to adapt. 

You are also ignoring the cost of the massive death toll, hospital treatment and human suffering that is not helping normal commerce.

[chang1]

3 minutes ago, cookieqw said:

the law is already there   -   just enforce it,   lets see how many police are put outside the schools to catch offenders ?????

I agree but low fines mean no one worries about being caught. This is about deterrence so enforcement is also important.

[jimn]

I agree with most of the comments here so far. Unfortunately most are seeing this through the eyes of a western mind. The Thai mind in the majority of Thais works completely different. They know about the carnage on the road but think it wont happen to them. They dont wear helmits because they dont want to spoil their hair. They remove side mirrors on bikes because either they dont look cool or if they take them off they cant see the ghost following them at night. They dont obey the laws of the road because frankly they dont care. 

Now back to the driving licence issue. They dont get a licence because its less hastle not too. The process to get a licence here for Thais is flawed. For a working Thai to take the time off to get one is very hard. Take Pattaya for example. There is no booking system you have to turn up early and try and get a place which are always oversubscribed. So you have to come back. For most Thais taking the time off work to do this is impossible. Agree have a policy to encourage and even command them to get a licence. But first sort out the process. Increase the size or outsource the process and then after a period start enforcing the fines and even issuing bans as in our version of sanity.

[metisdead]

A post in violation of the following has been removed:

 

8.) You will not post disruptive or inflammatory messages, vulgarities, obscenities or profanities.

[Sprigger]

On 8/22/2018 at 8:59 AM, Darcula said:

 

Concerned about high fines? Don't break the law.

It’s the shitty little BIB, breaking the law, even when you have a legitimate driving license, and they are short of money they will tell you your license is fake. Just horrible little racist shits rotten to the core.

[stanleycoin]

32 minutes ago, Sprigger said:

It’s the shitty little BIB, breaking the law, even when you have a legitimate driving license, and they are short of money they will tell you your license is fake. Just horrible little racist shits rotten to the core.

Did that happen to you ?

Where  and when ? 

How much did you pay him and why ?

the old Speeding trick,  I just may have bought it .

Or are you making that up ? 

Edited August 23, 2018 by stanleycoin

[bristolgeoff]

i can see a 12 yr old or younger applying to get a license for going to school.dad does not want to pay a fine.so i want one.you see it often in every town kids on scooters it is normal for them just like a car when older

[hotchilli]

Others were complaining more about the long and misguided process in getting a license. 

 

Long process?????

They don't even have to go to a driving school to attend lessons... just go do a quick lap of a pathetic circuit, sleep through a video & get a licence... most find that an inconvenience so don't bother!!

Thais just don't want laws of the road imposed on them, they want to do exactly what they want to do...

pay a trivial roadside fine when stopped & that's the truth!!!

[stanleycoin]

1 minute ago, hotchilli said:

Others were complaining more about the long and misguided process in getting a license. 

 

Long process?????

They don't even have to go to a driving school to attend lessons... just go do a quick lap of a pathetic circuit, sleep through a video & get a licence... most find that an inconvenience so don't bother!!

Thais just don't want laws of the road imposed on them, they want to do exactly what they want to do...

pay a trivial roadside fine when stopped & that's the truth!!!

That's not 100% true.

Some play Fake book and Line, when the Video is on. 

[chang1]

3 hours ago, lucjoker said:

In western countries, 45 years ago , a driving license was not existing , no alcohol tests,no helmet needed for motorcycles......and we are still alive ! And we were enjoying our freedom !

16 years ago i came to Thailand ....again this freedom feeling , primitive traffic rules, 200bht fines ....but who cares. 

Now all these "safety" restrictions take away my freedom , so i moved away .

If you can not enjoy a few beers and drive home ......because "the law" says......no way.

Thais have a drinking culture,as all poor people have , work the whole day and evenings sit down with the family and friends drinking and laughing. Accidents happen and will continuing ,but that's life.

We are over-protected, you can not smoke (cancer),not drink , no sex (aids),don't eat fat,sugar,.....Camera's in every street to check you ,  insurance for house /car/health/gsm/........AND pay 50% tax on everything you earn ......

Is this what we want ?

Then stay home ,and watch commercials on tv / and continue living in your FB-world.

 

 

"and we are still alive !" If that was true we would not have needed licenses and rules. Our roads carry far more traffic now and are getting safer. Partly due to safer vehicles and better medical treatment. Drink is one of the biggest causes of deaths on the roads. What makes you think it is OK to put me and my family in danger just because you can't be bothered to walk home? I am all for freedom but not at other people's expense. Smoke all you want, get fat, don't wear a helmet, don't get insurance and stay away from cameras - makes no difference to me. If you get attacked and no-one comes or you need hospital treatment for your cancer and diabetes just don't expect any help. Your freedom is not free, so if you won't take care of yourself or others safety, expect others to protect themselves from you. Stopping you driving while pissed would be a good start. This is not just about me it is also about my family who are stuck in Thailand with people Who think they can endanger them whenever they want. I want the freedom of driving down the road without worrying about whether other drivers are fit to be on the road. I can dream.

I do also get your point and feel Thailand is getting more like Spain all the time and therefore more boring. This is caused more by modernisation higher wages and the 2 week holiday makers though. Safer roads are an essential sacrifice that I don't mind.

 

[jvs]

2 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

Seems to me that all the huffing and puffing by the farangs its hypocrisy. Thailand is a third world country with lots of poor people. Denying them the ability to travel and conduct normal commerce is not a step forward.

Nobody is denying poor people to travel,all they need is a valid DP.These laws are not made up by farangs but by Thai people.

DP too expensive?Compared to what?A smart phone?

Edited August 23, 2018 by jvs

[chang1]

1 hour ago, Sprigger said:

It’s the shitty little BIB, breaking the law, even when you have a legitimate driving license, and they are short of money they will tell you your license is fake. Just horrible little racist shits rotten to the core.

A bit off topic but I would also like to know what happened. I have never had a problem with the bib but would never just pay up when I am clearly in the right and can prove it. When there is no evidence like shooting a red light or speeding it would be hard to argue but I would still kick up a fuss if I was100% sure I was in the right.

[Basil B]

If this does lead to more smaller undocumented fines and the issue of unlicensed drivers dose not improve.

 

Then they need to threaten the police offices in charge of areas that the law is not being obeyed with being moved to inactive (& unpaid) posts.  

[Zack61]

Note to self. Never forget to carry my license with me. This may well have painted a bigger bullseye (or baht sign) on my back. 

That being said, something other paltry fines is required to get people thinking about their behaviour on the roads. 

[Gerrit2561]

Laws? In a country where nobody being taught to take responsibility?

It will take decades before thailand reduces its roadvictims dramatically because they are too STUPID!

[AlphMichaels]

Two things that motivate people..., Profit & Fear.  I applaud the measure.  For those screaming..., highly likely they're part of the problem.  

 

Painful living in fear of your own mortality when making a 5 K run to Makro.  

[Thaidream]

They need a hard hitting Safety/Public relations campaign showing a motorcycle going through a red light and wiped out by a vehicle that has the right of way; or a motorcycle driving the wrong way that is struck and the driver mangled because he was breaking the law; or a passenger car driving way over the speed limit that then turns over and the driver crushed and becomes a paraplegic and it needs to be show in mandatory driver training classes in schools; on TV with interviews  with the paralyzed and the family of the dead.

 

I still remember these training films from high school driver ed and it scared the hell out of me.

 

Most of the motorcyclists are poor and uneducated and this is the segment of the population that is most affected by accidents;  the other segment of the population that is speeding are hi so people with expensive cars; delivery trucks and the van drivers plus some of the bus drivers.  Where are the posted speed limits and the police on motorcycles or in police cars/trucks using radar. . While driving on motorways, I hardly ever see police cars except upcountry at their ubiquitous checkpoints/

 

Increasing the fines to amounts that most people cannot pay and using checkpoints are a complete waste of time.  I have seen checkpoints staffed by 10-15 police officers who could be out  actually doing some policing and education.

 

The type of  laws Thailand passes are completely  unable to be enforced such as the no smoking law- 100,000 Baht fine and/or a year in prison.  Never going to happen as the bad publicity  would destroy tourism.  However, a campaign in which the authorities banned smoking and continually went around  educating and enforcing a small fine could prove effective.   The same with the Work Permit law- had to be changed and fines lowered and modified- it could not be enforced.

 

The new laws for  licenses , if passed, will fall into the same category and the carnage will continue.

 

 

 

 

[TKDfella]

Well, when I saw this in the news I thought 'Ha, this is going to be fun on this forum'! I won't repeat what many have said here about not having a license; not having a driving licence while driving a vehicle is breaking the law and that's that! Will  the amendment be enforced? Initially I would think so. Will it continue to be enforced? Ha, that's a 'wait and see'. Will it stop the carnage on the road? Well, I can't see how a permit to drive will change the mind set. I do hope it stops under age youngsters...but who is going to pay the fine? Mum & dad will have to start disallowing their children to ride their m/b...for how long, I wonder.

[d4291797]

Surely if, and its a big if, they want to get serious for once, to sort the road toll.

Then a total look at the whole transport scene should be done!

From over loaded vehicles, illegally modified vehicles, ie jacked up utes, and insane overhanging wheels.

Contributing to dangerous handling.

Massive penalties for overtaking on double yellow lines, especially on blind corners.

Yes seat belts, and of course passengers carried in the back of utes and trucks.

Sadly I can not see this happening, its almost going against local culture, where life is cheap!

Yes I can just see the bike rental shops refusing to take money, and allow unlicensed   hires of bikes out on the roads.

Again a big blow to the tourist industry.

But there is a big picture to be looked at, if this insane road toll is to be reduced.

Money will be the deal breaker here!!!

[upu2]

4 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

Seems to me that all the huffing and puffing by the farangs its hypocrisy. Thailand is a third world country with lots of poor people. Denying them the ability to travel and conduct normal commerce is not a step forward.

And giving them a free hand to do as they want is helping them? Really?

[chama]

On 8/22/2018 at 3:59 AM, Darcula said:

 

Concerned about high fines? Don't break the law.

Unfortunately you don't necessarily need to break the law to be fined. If you look like you have money and that RTP following you decides he needs some of your money you are breaking the law, even if your not. 

[chama]

This will likely do little to stop many of the infractions but will load up the jails. The people that can afford the fines won't even blink at this and those that can't afford the fines will not be able to pay. Since the poor won't be able to pay the law won't be able to be enforced without loading up the jails. And then there is the corruption issue. The RTP are well known to arbitrarily enforce laws by targeting people who look like they will pay them on the spot rather than fighting the charges or even regardless if the charges are accurate. One of the previous post jokingly suggested taking the offenders cars but that would be the best way to stop these infractions.

[stanleycoin]

58 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

They need a hard hitting Safety/Public relations campaign showing a motorcycle going through a red light and wiped out by a vehicle that has the right of way; or a motorcycle driving the wrong way that is struck and the driver mangled because he was breaking the law; or a passenger car driving way over the speed limit that then turns over and the driver crushed and becomes a paraplegic and it needs to be show in mandatory driver training classes in schools; on TV with interviews  with the paralyzed and the family of the dead.

 

I still remember these training films from high school driver ed and it scared the hell out of me.

 

The sad truth is,  they will all just look at the tv and start laughing

at it all. all the family in unison whilst eating dinner.

( have you ever watched the Thai news )

The only thing that will ever get there attention. is money

and that's why this is all a good idea.

Get the big money stick out,  and whack away at the bad guys and girls. 

 

Ps  After a period of using the big money stick, they could introduce the other ideas, training and stuff like that.

All with the new found attention span,  at there disposal.

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by stanleycoin

[Howiehotspur]

One of my neighbors is a policeman .. 

he told me in a round about way , old people and or people that look poor , it’s not worth fining , sometimes they stop them as a matter of course but only to give a warning , there’s absolutely no point in a confiscation of vehicle or fine because they 9/10 won’t be able to afford it and it will ruin their livelihood ... 

ive noticed in the past 8-9 months they DO stop youngsters ( Thai ) a lot now , I assume they get the same treatment as us Farang .. mainly for Helmet lack of ... some / most can’t have licences either I’d wager . 

I have all , but when I was stopped a week or so ago after checking my tax , he told me this runs out next week . I said I know , he said it’s ok for a few month after , but don’t forget . ?. 

[overherebc]

34 minutes ago, stanleycoin said:

The sad truth is,  they will all just look at the tv and start laughing

at it all. all the family in unison whilst eating dinner.

( have you ever watched the Thai news )

The only thing that will ever get there attention. is money

and that's why this is all a good idea.

Get the big money stick out,  and whack away at the bad guys and girls. 

 

Ps  After a period of using the big money stick, they could introduce the other ideas, training and stuff like that.

All with the new found attention span,  at there disposal.

 

 

 

Ok I'll try to get this right.

Fine for driving without holding or actually not having a licence xxxx baht if done officially.

Pay off the cop at the check point xxxx baht minus 1000.

That's the point they are all 

'screaming' it's wrong.

They don't care about right or wrong, they care about their wallet.

Either way it costs them more and that's what they don't want.

 

[chama]

32 minutes ago, Howiehotspur said:

One of my neighbors is a policeman .. 

he told me in a round about way , old people and or people that look poor , it’s not worth fining , sometimes they stop them as a matter of course but only to give a warning , there’s absolutely no point in a confiscation of vehicle or fine because they 9/10 won’t be able to afford it and it will ruin their livelihood ... 

ive noticed in the past 8-9 months they DO stop youngsters ( Thai ) a lot now , I assume they get the same treatment as us Farang .. mainly for Helmet lack of ... some / most can’t have licences either I’d wager . 

I have all , but when I was stopped a week or so ago after checking my tax , he told me this runs out next week . I said I know , he said it’s ok for a few month after , but don’t forget . ?. 

Spot on.

[losworld]

39 minutes ago, Howiehotspur said:

One of my neighbors is a policeman .. 

he told me in a round about way , old people and or people that look poor , it’s not worth fining , sometimes they stop them as a matter of course but only to give a warning , there’s absolutely no point in a confiscation of vehicle or fine because they 9/10 won’t be able to afford it and it will ruin their livelihood ... 

ive noticed in the past 8-9 months they DO stop youngsters ( Thai ) a lot now , I assume they get the same treatment as us Farang .. mainly for Helmet lack of ... some / most can’t have licences either I’d wager . 

I have all , but when I was stopped a week or so ago after checking my tax , he told me this runs out next week . I said I know , he said it’s ok for a few month after , but don’t forget . ?. 

Yes but he also neglected to tell you how they won't pull over hiso in the big cars.

[Redline]

Nothing changes without enforcement-get with the program people.  Time to grow up!

[lust]

3 hours ago, chama said:

Spot on.

What?