Trump, White House deny wrongdoing after Cohen plea deal

[zaphod reborn]

2 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

Yep, since Trump hasn't broken any laws he cannot be charged with a crime. 

Quote

Using your own money to pay off those gals isn't a crime. He didn't use campaign finance funds. 

 

Nice spin.  Most legal experts are already taking the position that Dershowitz's legal reasoning on this issue is faulty.  https://blog.harvardlawreview.org/the-coming-storm-hush-money-and-the-federal-election-campaign-act/ Trump is in a catch-22 situation, and that is why he has made inconsistent explanations for the Daniels' hush money pay out.

 

First of all, the payments to Daniels and McDougal were not hush money for the purpose of saving Trump's marriage to Melania (his marriage was always a sham).  The affairs happened more than 10 years prior to the election.  In the recording produced by Cohen, Trump and Cohen specifically discuss buying AMI's rights in the catch and kill agreement to secure McDougal's silence just prior to the election.  This is not a John Edwards situation, where there will be a credible defense of buying silence to save his marriage.  Also, Trump has a pattern and practice of using NDA's to prevent negative news stories from being published.  Omarosa has stated that Trump WH staffers were put on salary, with an NDA/non-disparagement agreement, which was paid with campaign funds.

 

Second, the campaign finance law requires that disclosure be made of all contributions exceeding $2700.  Contributions are analyzed for purpose of the law on the date the contribution is made.  A candidate may make unlimited contributions to his own campaign, but still must disclose any contributions.  With regard to Daniels, Trump's disclosure was made over a year later, when he amended his financial report.  Also, Trump is currently claiming he didn't know about the payment to Daniels until much later, and then reimbursed Cohen.  To allow this type of defense would essentially circumvent the campaign finance law as any candidate could later "reimburse" a contributor, and cleanse the criminality of the act.  The fact that Trump was using LLC's and other persons (Pecker and Broidy) to make the actual payments is evidence that Trump knew the hush money pay offs were illegal, and was trying to cover for his criminal conduct. 

 

Third, usually campaign finance violations are merely documentary offenses, so are often treated as civil claims (ie, Obama's 2008 violation which resulted in a civil settlement - disgorgement).  Trump bought the silence of people who were intending to go public with negative news stories which would affect the 2016 election.  This is more election fraud, and the courts will look at the motive (negligence in documentation vs. trying to alter an election result) in considering the criminality of the act.

 

Finally, not all the facts have come out regarding Trump's attempts at supressing negative news.  Cohen, if he enters into a cooperation agreement with SDNY's US Attorney, may have evidence, or there may be recordings, which indicate the payment of $1.6 million to coverup a paternity allegation was not made on behalf of Elliot Broidy (RNC finance chairman), but was made to cover for Trump.  There is little reason that Broidy would make such a large payment.  It is highly likely that the payment was made to avoid a Trump abortion story from going public before the election.  https://www.newsweek.com/cohen-broidy-trump-affair-playboy-975383

 

Bottom line is that nobody but Trump's uneducated supporters and the Congressmen who are still breastfeeding from Putin's teats (Rand Paul, McConnell, Nunes, etc.) are the only ones toting the line that the hush money payout wasn't a serious campaign finance law/election fraud violation.

[Credo]

35 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

no laws were broken.  it's a crime to blackmail, it's not a crime to pay off a blackmailer.  no campaign funds used, so this is just a setup.

 

notice this was a plea agreement.....cohen pleaded guilty to a non-crime in order to hopefully get a reduction in sentence or save himself from bankruptcy.  defending yourself in court against a government with unlimited resources and unlimited time frame quickly leaves one destitute.

 

there was nothing proven in court.  that of course will be lost in the reporting, with the assumption that pleading guilty confirms he, and by extension trump, broke the law.

 

Well, yes there was a law broken because the money was paid to influence an election by now allowing information to come out.   That means it was a contribution to the campaign.   The contribution was not reported.

 

There is also some question as to where exactly the money came from.   

 

So, a crime was committed.   Since it was Cohen who paid he is guilty and has admitted his guilt.   Since it was ordered by Trump, that leaves him in a legal jam.   

 

[ChouDoufu]

10 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Which was not my point. Please don't partially quote to change the meaning.

 

Deleted quote after quoted post was deleted.

sorry, not meant to change the meaning, but to avoid confusion.  was to show which part of the post was being replied to.

 

anyhoo, i'm done.  no point in continuing if being accused of trolling. 

Edited August 23, 2018 by ChouDoufu

[mtls2005]

6 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

so if the real target of investigation is trump, his associates will plead to lesser offenses for them in exchange for leniency, in order to get to the main target.

 

This how RICO/Organized Crime prosecutions have progressed since the 1970's

 

Rudy Guiliani made his chops as U.S. Attorney in the SDNY using these very tactics.

 

Not seeing a huge issue here?

 

Mueller starts to look into connections between Russians and those on the tRUmp campaign. He shakes the first tree and a dozen or so criminals fall out. He swings a dead cat and hits another dozen criminals. So what, is it his "fault" that the Don surrounded himself with so many criminals? Talk about deflection.

 

 

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

sorry, not meant to change the meaning, but to avoid confusion.  was to show which part of the post was being replied to.

So quote the post in full, and copy the part of the quote you're replying to in your answer, recognisable as a quote.

And yes, you leaving out a big part of the quote did change the meaning.

[mtls2005]

11 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

the current topic is the legality of payments to the ladies,

 

This is a complex issue. Watching Dersh on Fox from Martha's Vineyard may not be the best choice? This can't be reduced to a glove analogy or an insulin injection.

 

The "intent" behind the payments may support a charge of illegal activity.

 

The "action" of the payments may be illegal.

 

The "act" of making the payments may be illegal.

 

The "cover-up" of the acts/actions may be illegal.

 

 

Obviously, if these payments were "legal" one assume tRUmp would be very open and forthcoming about them. Instead, we're left with this sort of behavior...

 

 

 

 

[Puwa]

36 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

I confess I have no idea what "reality" you are experiencing?

 

Did you read the plea agreement and indictment?

 

https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-michael-cohen-plea-agreement

 

Laws were broken.

 

Blackmail (Extortion) has not been asserted.

 

Hush agreements are CONTRACTS. tRUmp and his minions are the Promisors.

 

I honestly don't know how the money flowed between tRUmp, Essential Consultants, CEEP, AMI, Stormy/McDougal.

 

I am pretty sure there will be flow sharts to show how the money was funneled, so maybe be patient. Cohen supposedly paid Stormy out of his own funds, but then was reimbursed by tRUmp. No clue which slush fund tRUmp used?

 

Not seeing a "set-up" here?

 

Just low-level organized crime activity gone awry. Reality TV show stuff.

 

 

 

 

Lawfare rocks

[spidermike007]

Trump is the biggest coward in the history of American politics. He will throw anyone under the bus he needs to do, in order to be implicated himself. First he dodges the draft five times, now he attempts to dodge prison. Not gonna happen, many of us hope.

 

This crime lord huckster, is as guilty as they come. When it comes to Trump, if there is smoke, there is fire nearby. If he says there is nothing to hide, the entire world can rest assured he is guilty, and he is lying. That is what he does. Nothing he says can ever be depended upon as truth. He and Rudy do not know what truth is, and if truth bit them on the butt, they would not know what happened, or be able to identify truth. 

 

The Mango Mussolini does not even know how ridiculous he sounds when he makes such emotionally charged statements. It is all about deflecting his own guilt, of which he is no doubt. He is not only the least dignified man in the history of American politics, he is probably one of the lowest class individuals, and one of the most heinous men in the history of the nation. Tiny Trump is a permanent stain on the face of America. He is a cartoon. A caricature of a man. A half man, half child, with less control of his emotions than most 12 years old possess. His thin skin speaks volumes about the miniature size of his heart, and his nearly complete lack of self esteem. A man in his position with even a shred of propriety and dignity would have refused to answer the question, and simply said answering the question is inappropriate. But, he does not know the definition of that term. The good men and women who protect and defend our nation are bad people in his opinion, and Manafort is a good person. What can one even say about this infantile moron? 

 

Tiny Don. Moving America backwards, every day of his presidency. 

•  

[GroveHillWanderer]

1 hour ago, ChouDoufu said:

notice this was a plea agreement.....cohen pleaded guilty to a non-crime in order to hopefully get a reduction in sentence or save himself from bankruptcy.  defending yourself in court against a government with unlimited resources and unlimited time frame quickly leaves one destitute.

 

there was nothing proven in court.  that of course will be lost in the reporting, with the assumption that pleading guilty confirms he, and by extension trump, broke the law.

 

 

Your understanding of the law is way off-base here. It is not permissible under the law to plead guilty to a non-crime. Before a guilty plea can be accepted, the court must establish an evidentiary basis showing both that a crime has been committed and that the defendant is guilty of the crime.

 

By the judge accepting a guilty plea, this means in effect that it has been 'proven in court' that the crime in question has been committed by the defendant.

 

It also means that the court had sufficient evidentiary basis to believe that 'candidate 1' (Donald Trump) directed Cohen to make the payments - otherwise it could not have been included in the plea language.

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Illiberals have had their day in the sun, the scales tipped this week.

 

 

 It’s now time for the rest of us to enjoy the show  as Trump and his three ring circus of hate is taken down piece by piece.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[mtls2005]

Normally this headline would be welcome news to your average tRUmp voter, but alas, it is not.

 

Pecker is Cooperating

 

American Media Chairman and CEO David Pecker is cooperating with federal prosecutors investigating Michael Cohen’s payments to women alleging affairs with President Donald Trump.

 

According to The Wall Street Journal, Pecker has knowledge of what Trump knew and when he knew it and he’s giving that information to the prosecutors.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/08/national-enquirers-david-pecker-cooperating-prosecutors-cohen-payoffs-trumps-knowledge/

 

 

In Fox interview, Trump seems to confess a campaign finance violation while trying to deny it

 

A brief segment of a Fox & Friends interview released this afternoon by Fox News features President Donald Trump repeatedly emphasizing that the hush money payments at the center of Michael Cohen’s guilty plea were not made with campaign funds. There’s just one problem: That doesn’t exonerate him at all.

 

In context, Trump appears to be trying to say that this exonerates him, but the opposite is the case — you can’t just evade campaign finance rules by paying for your campaign expenses with non-campaign funds. If you could, the rules would be meaningless.

 

https://www.vox.com/2018/8/22/17770074/fox-and-friends-trump-cohen-campaign-finance-payment

 

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by mtls2005

[pennine]

6 hours ago, AlexRich said:

The biggest liar in the US issues a denial, and his inbred base lap it up ... sad.

Whenever I see the phrase "he denied any wrongdoing" I am reminded of the famous Mandy Rice Davies quote "well he would, wouldn't he?".

[Berkshire]

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

Normally this headline would be welcome news to your average tRUmp voter, but alas, it is not.

 

Pecker is Cooperating

 

American Media Chairman and CEO David Pecker is cooperating with federal prosecutors investigating Michael Cohen’s payments to women alleging affairs with President Donald Trump.

 

According to The Wall Street Journal, Pecker has knowledge of what Trump knew and when he knew it and he’s giving that information to the prosecutors.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/08/national-enquirers-david-pecker-cooperating-prosecutors-cohen-payoffs-trumps-knowledge/

 

 

In Fox interview, Trump seems to confess a campaign finance violation while trying to deny it

 

A brief segment of a Fox & Friends interview released this afternoon by Fox News features President Donald Trump repeatedly emphasizing that the hush money payments at the center of Michael Cohen’s guilty plea were not made with campaign funds. There’s just one problem: That doesn’t exonerate him at all.

 

In context, Trump appears to be trying to say that this exonerates him, but the opposite is the case — you can’t just evade campaign finance rules by paying for your campaign expenses with non-campaign funds. If you could, the rules would be meaningless.

 

https://www.vox.com/2018/8/22/17770074/fox-and-friends-trump-cohen-campaign-finance-payment

 

 

So Cohen has collaboration from Pecker....more proof that Trump was lying.  Ho hum, Trump caught in another lie (rinse and repeat).  I saw that Fox News "interview" and Trump was painfully pathetic.  He lied his ass off.  Just about every statement.  But saying he didn't know about the pay-off until after-the-fact...Christ man, Cohen has him on tape.  Or maybe Trump forgot about that.  Anyways, I'm enjoying the heck out of this.

[Thaidream]

5 hours ago, stevenl said:

The devout Christians don't care about that, as long as he delivers. And so far he does

Delivered ?   Trump has broken most of the Commandments.  He is a liar; he is an adulterer; he is a thief in that he uses his Presidency to enrich himself.

 

He has divided the country like no other President in history.  He is despised by people of  color; the disabled; Americans of foreign descent and Immigrants of all stripes simply because they see a President who is a racist; discriminates and doesn't care about them..

 

As far as the rst of the population- his tax cut has done little to help them- a few extra dollars a day will not make any difference to people trying to purchase a home or looking for work.

 

He has no Immigration policy except to deport everyone inlcuding separating children from parents.

 

He has no healthcare bill and tried to join with Republicans to pass a bill that would have driven millions into the roles of the uninsured. It was stopped by a single vote- John McCain, an American hero who has been denigrated by Trump. 

 

Trump's foreign policy is horrid- he publicly rebukes American allies; withdraws from the climate treaty the only country to do so and  cancels an agreement between Iran and the US which pushes  America closer to another conflict.

 

Actually, I don't care if he had an affair with anyone but his modus operandi is to continue to lie about it and deny he paid the people off.   Clinton was impeached for similar actions but Clinton  did not sell his soul to the Russians but apparently Trump supporters do not care whether Trump did.

 

 

[mtls2005]

Cohen's attorney, Lanny Davis' mention, quite in passing, about his client being able to document that tRUmp knew in advance of the DNC/Russian hacking, has people talking.

 

Cohen sought, and received, reimbursement from the Trump Organization in the amount of $50,000 for "Tech Services" related to the Campaign, in January, 2017.

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/403141-cohen-paid-unidentified-tech-company-50k-in-connection-with-trump

 

The Dodgy Steele Dossier also has an interesting mention about Michael Cohen playing a key role in the TRUMP/Kremlin "relationship".

 

$50,000 seems cheap for the Russian hack, but tRUmp is known to be notoriously cheap so maybe that makes sense?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by mtls2005

[Srikcir]

9 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

Yep, since Trump hasn't broken any laws he cannot be charged with a crime. 

I watched a Republican US congressman on CNN/MSNBC(?) declare that Trump hasn't committed any crimes related to Cohen's charges because Cohen was not tried for the charges and found guilty by a jury. 

If it wasn't for the seriousness of these crimes it would be entertaining to watch pro-Trump allies twist themselves into pretzels to maintain Trump's innocence. Even as Trump contradicts his own denials.

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Delivered ?   Trump has broken most of the Commandments.  He is a liar; he is an adulterer; he is a thief in that he uses his Presidency to enrich himself.

 

He has divided the country like no other President in history.  He is despised by people of  color; the disabled; Americans of foreign descent and Immigrants of all stripes simply because they see a President who is a racist; discriminates and doesn't care about them..

 

As far as the rst of the population- his tax cut has done little to help them- a few extra dollars a day will not make any difference to people trying to purchase a home or looking for work.

 

He has no Immigration policy except to deport everyone inlcuding separating children from parents.

 

He has no healthcare bill and tried to join with Republicans to pass a bill that would have driven millions into the roles of the uninsured. It was stopped by a single vote- John McCain, an American hero who has been denigrated by Trump. 

 

Trump's foreign policy is horrid- he publicly rebukes American allies; withdraws from the climate treaty the only country to do so and  cancels an agreement between Iran and the US which pushes  America closer to another conflict.

 

Actually, I don't care if he had an affair with anyone but his modus operandi is to continue to lie about it and deny he paid the people off.   Clinton was impeached for similar actions but Clinton  did not sell his soul to the Russians but apparently Trump supporters do not care whether Trump did.

 

 

They don't care about the man or his actions, as long as he delivers. Conservative SC, planned Parenthood cut budget, oppose anything they don't like. Taxes, adultery, Russia etc, is totally immaterial to them atm.

[mtls2005]

tRUmp tweets at 1:10 AM:

 

NO COLLUSION - RIGGED WITCH HUNT!

 

Near the end, it was said that Nixon (by Hammerin' Hank Kissinger I think) was roaming the Whitehouse talking with various portraits.

[rudi49jr]

Trump, without batting an eye and with his mouth full of cookies, would deny having his tiny hand in the cookie jar, right as he was being caught with his tiny hand in the cookie jar. The man can simply not not lie.

Edited August 23, 2018 by rudi49jr

[Briggsy]

2 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Trump, without batting an eye and with his mouth full of cookies, would deny having his tiny hand in the cookie jar, right as he was being caught with his tiny hand in the cookie jar. The man can simply not not lie.

And shortly after would accuse his accuser of being a lowlife trash cookie thief sleazeball.

[stevenl]

35 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

And shortly after would accuse his accuser of being a lowlife trash cookie thief sleazeball.

And his supporters wouldn't mind and believe him.

[mtls2005]

Upcoming Time Magazine cover follows on the same theme from two earlier covers. Pretty sure these won't be displayed in tRUmp resorts?

 

 

 

 

[Get Real]

12 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

Yep, since Trump hasn't broken any laws he cannot be charged with a crime. 

You just can´t be that unknowing. Everyone knows that he has and is breaking the laws. It´s just that it has to take so long time before it comes out in the light.

 

That the little joke of a man is a president too, just doesn´t make it easier.-

[Briggsy]

13 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

Yep, since Trump hasn't broken any laws he cannot be charged with a crime. 

I see that this is the current line of retreat. Stormy who? Cohen paid it himself. Cohen is a liar, etc have all been abandoned as Team Trump simply falls back on the next lie.

[Redline]

17 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"...The White House pushed back forcefully on Wednesday against suggestions that a plea deal struck by President Donald Trump's former lawyer Michael Cohen implicated Trump in a crime..."

 

You can push back as long and as hard as you like, but it isn't going to make a difference.

 

Once again a person who entered into Trump's orbit has gone down to the sewer, gasping for air. Flynn, Manaforte, Cohen, Papadapolous, etc. And, for all who are working at the White House, your time is coming as well; you likely thought upon entering the White House that you were doing a noble thing of helping your country. However, you didn't count on Trump forcing you to wallow in the muck and the taint of being in the Trump White House will never, ever leave you.

 

I have said it before and (sadly) will say it again;

 

Donald Trump is an ever-expanding cloud of toxic waste that defiles everything it touches.

 

God help us all.

 

 

And most Republicans are complicit 

[Redline]

4 hours ago, Get Real said:

You just can´t be that unknowing. Everyone knows that he has and is breaking the laws. It´s just that it has to take so long time before it comes out in the light.

 

That the little joke of a man is a president too, just doesn´t make it easier.-

The cases need to be airtight-yes

Edited August 23, 2018 by Redline

[mcambl61]

On 8/23/2018 at 6:26 AM, AlexRich said:

The biggest liar in the US issues a denial, and his inbred base lap it up ... sad.

thanks for the arrogance and ridiculous generalizations

[mcambl61]

On 8/24/2018 at 12:30 AM, Redline said:

The cases need to be airtight-yes

airtight like this:?

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/aug/27/lanny-davis-admits-he-was-source-cnn-trump-tower-s/

 

[mcambl61]

On 8/23/2018 at 8:04 PM, Briggsy said:

I see that this is the current line of retreat. Stormy who? Cohen paid it himself. Cohen is a liar, etc have all been abandoned as Team Trump simply falls back on the next lie.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/aug/27/lanny-davis-admits-he-was-source-cnn-trump-tower-s/

[mcambl61]

On 8/23/2018 at 5:38 PM, mtls2005 said:

tRUmp tweets at 1:10 AM:

 

NO COLLUSION - RIGGED WITCH HUNT!

 

Near the end, it was said that Nixon (by Hammerin' Hank Kissinger I think) was roaming the Whitehouse talking with various portraits.

like this:

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/aug/27/lanny-davis-admits-he-was-source-cnn-trump-tower-s/