German far-right protesters clash with leftists after Chemnitz stabbing

[webfact]

German far-right protesters clash with leftists after Chemnitz stabbing

 

Right-wing supporters protest after a German man was stabbed last weekend in Chemnitz, Germany, August 27, 2018. REUTERS/Matthias Rietschel

 

CHEMNITZ, Germany (Reuters) - Far-right demonstrators clashed with leftist protesters in the eastern German city of Chemnitz on Monday after an Iraqi and a Syrian were arrested over a fatal stabbing that had triggered violent demonstrations.

 

Police said they brought in water cannons after fireworks were thrown from both sides, causing injuries.

 

State and local officials appealed for calm as thousands of people took to the streets and Chancellor Angela Merkel's spokesman said Germany would not tolerate "vigilante justice".

 

The unrest reflected a growing schism in German society after Merkel's government allowed about 1 million asylum seekers to enter the country in 2015, triggering a shift to the right in German politics.

 

Over a thousand leftist protesters massed near a giant statue of Karl Marx in Chemnitz on Monday evening to protest attacks on foreigners that occurred during an impromptu demonstration on Sunday after reports spread on social media about the stabbing of a 35-year-old German man.

 

"The scenes of people going after those who look like foreigners scare us. We want to show that Chemnitz has another side that is cosmopolitan and opposes xenophobia," Tim Detzner, the head of the radical Left party in Chemnitz, told the rally.

 

Nearly the same number of demonstrators waving German and Bavarian flags gathered nearby, some breaking through police barriers aimed at keeping the two sides apart. Many chanted "We are the people," a slogan used by far-right supporters.

 

The police in Saxony, the eastern state where Chemnitz lies, said on Twitter at around 1930 GMT that the demonstration had ended and they were accompanying participants to the train station.

 

Tensions were running high after some 800 demonstrators - including about 50 that police described as ready to commit violence - had taken to the streets on Sunday after the stabbing, which police said occurred after a row.

 

Local prosecutors said they had arrested two suspects, a 22-year-old Syrian man and a 21-year-old Iraqi man.

 

FAR RIGHT

Television news channels broadcast amateur footage of skinheads chasing a man through the streets at Sunday's protest. Police said they were still investigating reports of injury filed by Syrian, Afghan and Bulgarian people, and at least four demonstrators had been charged.

 

"We don't tolerate such unlawful assemblies and the hounding of people who look different or have different origins, and attempts to spread hatred on the streets," Merkel's spokesman Steffen Seibert told a regular news briefing.

 

"That has no place in our cities and we, as the German government, condemn it in the strongest terms," he said. "Our basic message for Chemnitz and beyond is that there is no place in Germany for vigilante justice, for groups that want to spread hatred on the streets, for intolerance and for extremism."

 

Roland Woeller, interior minister of the state of Saxony, which includes Chemnitz, said authorities would not allow "anarchists" to run rampant. He warned against "misinformation and lies" circulating in social media.

 

The arrival of huge numbers of migrants from the Middle East three years ago has fuelled support for far-right groups such as PEGIDA and the Alternative for Germany (AfD), now the main opposition party in parliament.

 

Tweeting about Sunday's incident, AfD politician Markus Frohnmaier said: "If the state is no longer to protect citizens then people take to the streets and protect themselves. It's as simple as that!"

 

Martina Renner, a Left party lawmaker, accused the far-right of trying to exploit a murder for its own political ends.

 

"A terrible murder, the background to which is still unclear, is being instrumentalised in the most repugnant way for racist riots in Chemnitz," she tweeted.

 

The violence in Chemnitz is likely to put further pressure on Merkel's conservatives, who last week faced accusations of ignoring the rise of far-right groups in Saxony.

 

(Reporting by Reuters TV and Michelle Martin, Joseph Nasr and Andrea Shalal in Berlin; Editing by Toby Chopra)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-08-28

[lovelomsak]

46 minutes ago, webfact said:

Tweeting about Sunday's incident, AfD politician Markus Frohnmaier said: "If the state is no longer to protect citizens then people take to the streets and protect themselves. It's as simple as that!"

Finally some one states the obvious.

 But of course stating the obvious is not PC these days.

[simple1]

55 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

Finally some one states the obvious.

 But of course stating the obvious is not PC these days.

Who were the far right protecting people from? From the OP it seems they attacked innocents. Not constructive is it, just comes across as extremely stupid.

[sweatalot]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

The unrest reflected a growing schism in German society after Merkel's government allowed about 1 million asylum seekers to enter the country in 2015, triggering a shift to the right in German politics.

The culprit is clear.

 

She did not respect the people.  Now she cannot protect them against the consequences of her stupidity

 

How can that damage be undone?

[thaiguzzi]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

That has no place in our cities and we, as the German government, condemn it in the strongest terms," he said. "Our basic message for Chemnitz and beyond is that there is no place in Germany for vigilante justice, for groups that want to spread hatred on the streets, for intolerance and for extremism."

Well chuck them all out then and send them back.

[micmichd]

3 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

Finally some one states the obvious.

 But of course stating the obvious is not PC these days.

I'm German, from a minority, and I was bashed by the "silent majority" of Germans. The German state failed to protect me. So, I've got the right to protect me against the German majority, right? 

[lovelomsak]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

Who were the far right protecting people from? From the OP it seems they attacked innocents. Not constructive is it, just comes across as extremely stupid.

 

4 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

Tweeting about Sunday's incident, AfD politician Markus Frohnmaier said: "If the state is no longer to protect citizens then people take to the streets and protect themselves. It's as simple as that!

You really missed what was said huh. Why it happened is in direct relation to the quote.Markus Frohmaier made

  Not justifying what happened just pointing out why it happened. 

  Desperate people do desperate things. Some thing s are a mistake but the reason they are done should be what is looked at not just their actions. 

  Looks to me like Germans are getting desperate to get their country back.

  

[blazes]

Why are right-wingers called "the far-right" , while leftists or left-wingers are merely called "leftists".  Why not "far-left"?  Just askin'....

[German farang]

1 hour ago, sweatalot said:

The culprit is clear.

 

She did not respect the people.  Now she cannot protect them against the consequences of her stupidity

 

How can that damage be undone?

Would it be to radical to consider Bukarest '89 as an good example? I don't think so!

[sweatalot]

51 minutes ago, micmichd said:

That would mean to surrender to German racists

No that would mean to practice common sense.

 

Not saying that real and peaceful refugees should have a chance to stay until they go back - or integrate

- but let them work for their livelihood. 

[overherebc]

6 minutes ago, sweatalot said:

No that would mean to practice common sense.

 

Not saying that real and peaceful refugees should have a chance to stay until they go back - or integrate

- but let them work for their livelihood. 

Make them work, not let them work. It's not their choice.

Don't want to work then go home and cause problems in your own country.

[Cats4ever]

Looks a bit like a rerun of the late 20's and early 30's.

[Rimmer]

A personal attack and a reply have been removed

[ELVIS123456]

Far right? Or just ordinary Germans sick and tired of being attacked by Merkel's welcomed immigrants?

 

Same thing is happening all over Europe, where ever these people were allowed to enter en-mass.

 

No protests in Poland.

 

[simple1]

1 hour ago, lovelomsak said:

 

You really missed what was said huh. Why it happened is in direct relation to the quote.Markus Frohmaier made

  Not justifying what happened just pointing out why it happened. 

  Desperate people do desperate things. Some things are a mistake but the reason they are done should be what is looked at not just their actions. 

  Looks to me like Germans are getting desperate to get their country back.

  

Right wing vigilanties are going to stop street crime? The truth is they would be a distraction for regular police.

 

Who has has taken over Germany from German citizens - no one - so more hyper right wing BS.

[sweatalot]

2 hours ago, ELVIS123456 said:

Far right? Or just ordinary Germans sick and tired of being attacked by Merkel's welcomed immigrants?

 

 

 

A trick of the synchronized media to label  those ordinary Germans far right pr racist

[lovelomsak]

 

 

2 hours ago, simple1 said:

Right wing vigilanties are going to stop street crime? The truth is they would be a distraction for regular police.

 

Who has has taken over Germany from German citizens - no one - so more hyper right wing BS.

I will try again. Post 30 got changed  some how it was meant in reply to you

1 hour ago, lovelomsak said:

you really do not understand written word or refuse to understand I will not judge.

Right wing vigilanties are going to stop street crime?  You make replies like this when it has nothing to do what I said. Your poor understanding and interpretation just looks stupid'

   Go back and read and see how far off you are with what was  said.

 this poster stated perhaps in a way you will understand

Far right? Or just ordinary Germans sick and tired of being attacked by Merkel's welcomed immigrants?

 

Same thing is happening all over Europe, where ever these people were allowed to enter en-mass.

 

No protests in Poland.

Elvis I apologize for post 20 how it got changed I do not know.

[simple1]

36 minutes ago, sweatalot said:

A trick of the synchronized media to label  those ordinary Germans far right pr racist

Right of centre apologists really do need to keep up. Below is a link to current definition/s for far right.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_populism

 

Other members have mentioned Poland as an example of 'good' government. The current Polish government is an excellent example of anti democratic authoritarian ideology gaining ground.

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/02/05/hungary-and-poland-arent-democratic-theyre-authoritarian/

[simple1]

2 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

you really do not understand written word or refuse to understand I will not judge.

Right wing vigilanties are going to stop street crime?  You make replies like this when it has nothing to do what I said. Your poor understanding and interpretation just looks stupid'

   Go back and read and see how far off you are with what was  said.

 this poster stated perhaps in a way you will understand

Far right? Or just ordinary Germans sick and tired of being attacked by Merkel's welcomed immigrants?

 

Same thing is happening all over Europe, where ever these people were allowed to enter en-mass.

 

No protests in Poland.

No misunderstanding by me. To quote from your reference  point...

 

Markus Frohnmaier said: "If the state is no longer to protect citizens then people take to the streets and protect themselves. It's as simple as that!"

 

Poland an example of good governance - <deleted>

[ELVIS123456]

45 minutes ago, simple1 said:

No misunderstanding by me. To quote from your reference  point...

Markus Frohnmaier said: "If the state is no longer to protect citizens then people take to the streets and protect themselves. It's as simple as that!"

Poland an example of good governance - <deleted>

You are yet another liberal apologist for fake immigrants who are causing concerns all over Europe (that let them in).

And you really should wake up to this reality before your deranged statements get taken too far.

 

All over Europe there is a massive swing to 'the right' politically - it is happening and trying to insult people by calling them 'far right' etc is not working.

And all attempts by liberal acadenmics and their sycophants to claim that this is only neo-Nazi white supremisists is failing.

Those attempts to use PC to shut down the negative comments (and views of people) are failing because the truth is clear - to those that live there or have relatives there.

 

There are 'far right' Naxi supremisists who will try tand take advantage of this move, but the vast majority of us do not hold with their racist Nazi views.

Likewise there are 'far left Communists who will take advantage of any social welfare views, but the majority of left wing supporters do not want Communism.

 

Today is Tuesday - and just because a racist nazi white supremist says that it is Tuesday, does not mean that it is wrong.

 

[Walter Travolta]

This is a great example of the recent FAKE NEWS topic the TVF put out a few days ago. 

For those of you who do not know, there was a music festival in this town. At this music festival, were around 10 Africans initially (but now reported as could be Syrian) who were sexually assaulting some women. Three German guys went over to try and stop it. One of the Germans was stabbed 25 times and quite obviously died. 2 of his friends are still in hospital fighting for their lives as of last night anyway.

So TVF . . . here you are GUILTY of spreading FAKE news. The people that took to the streets are normal people of all ages, who are sick of what is happening to their own population all for the sake of mass integration. Your story reads they were Syrian but hey ho, same firm different office.

This report is the first I read about leftists coming out in opposition but if that is true, take this next piece of education on board please . . . 

Some immigrants, wherever they are from, were sexually assaulting some local women who were out to enjoy a good day. Some local men went to their defence and all 3 could lose their lives. The towns people, NOT FAR RIGHT, came out in disgust and protest at what is happening, not just in their town but all over Europe. If it is true that the leftists came out to oppose this rally or demo, are in fact defending the animals who carried out the sexual assaults and the stabbings.

 

This my friends is what the left are all about. They hear the terms "right wing" or "far right" and there they are like puppets on strings. They are brainwashed. They have to be because any normal thinking person would be stood with the group opposing the attacks. its a sad sad world we are living in when we invite savages into our countries only to have our hands bitten, but its even more sad when idiotic people like the left dont actually realise they are wrong on everything they accuse.

 

If you do not believe that islam is a very dangerous threat then take a look at the countries that do not allow muslims in and see how peaceful they are (Poland, Hungary, Austria etc) then look at the countries that are allowing them in and understand that it is FACT that wherever islam is, there are problems.

 

None of what I have said is sceptical, its factual, its not PC, get over it, being offended is subjective. Learn how not to be offended and we can all get back to normal

It simply beggars belief that 3 guys lose their lives trying to defend some women who have been sexually assaulted, and the media choose to turn it into a far right issue. Yes, the right wing is growing, this is because of mass immigration. If there was none of this mass immigration going on, you wouldnt even know the right wing existed. 

The MSM and luvvies are worried and continue to comment about the RISE of the "far right". If the rise is happening, why not ask yourself why? Like I said, the rise is only happening because of mass immigration. There is NO argument against this. 

 

Apart from the deluded luvvies, there is one more thing that I cannot get my head around . . . Why European leaders continue with this influx knowing the problems it brings, and the fact that rich Arab nations have not taken 1 refugee/eco migrant in, yet these muslims are supposed to be one force, but no, let's send them to Europe. Islamification of Europe is a very long way off and will be stopped when deluded people finally admit they were wrong and we can all band together and end this

 

For those of you who think I am crazy, I can accept that accusation, Im not a melt. But people thought Enoch was crazy, yet proven correct

 

Have a great day

 

Trav x

[ivor bigun]

Right wing vigilanties are going to stop street crime? The truth is they would be a distraction for regular police.
 
Who has has taken over Germany from German citizens - no one - so more hyper right wing BS.

And more left wing head in sand BS

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[simple1]

27 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

You are yet another liberal apologist for fake immigrants who are causing concerns all over Europe (that let them in).

And you really should wake up to this reality before your deranged statements get taken too far.

 

All over Europe there is a massive swing to 'the right' politically - it is happening and trying to insult people by calling them 'far right' etc is not working.

And all attempts by liberal acadenmics and their sycophants to claim that this is only neo-Nazi white supremisists is failing.

Those attempts to use PC to shut down the negative comments (and views of people) are failing because the truth is clear - to those that live there or have relatives there.

 

There are 'far right' Naxi supremisists who will try tand take advantage of this move, but the vast majority of us do not hold with their racist Nazi views.

Likewise there are 'far left Communists who will take advantage of any social welfare views, but the majority of left wing supporters do not want Communism.

 

Today is Tuesday - and just because a racist nazi white supremist says that it is Tuesday, does not mean that it is wrong.

 

Again look at current definitions of 'far right". Some members commentary precisely, including yours, fall under the definition/s. Accusing me of supporting 'fake immigrants' is a complete lie. 

 

You are using the same tactics you accuse people of using who reject your politics, from the left (which I am not) and so on i.e. attempting to stifle / censor their opinions - time for you to wake up, as well as cease making false accusations against members.

[ivor bigun]

I truly believe that this is the shape of things to come in the West,and its not right wing racists ,its going to be ordinary people rising up,Those in power opened the floodgates and the tsunami came and is getting worse

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Mikeasq60]

Not far right, but German patriot

[Mikeasq60]

11 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

Finally some one states the obvious.

 But of course stating the obvious is not PC these days.

I read that the German Police are ineffective as they are in the UK. Basically they do nothing because the politicians tell them to stand down! So what are the citizens to do?

[roobaa01]

vigilant group have been founded all over gemany after merkel opened the borders illegally to mainly muslim illegal migrants.

the afd is the third largest party in germany with current poll rating of 17 % or 10 million people to follow them in germany. in east germany the afd rating is averagly 22 to 25 % which makes them the 2nd largest party. thus it is not just a right wing movement.

furthermore where is the so called video that proves right wingers chasing migrants ???? 

 

the muslim knife attack on german citizen caused 2 deaths , 1 still in hospitel fighting for survival and no word of condolence by the german politicians for the christian  german victims or their next of kin . only last week a muslim somali stabbed a doctor in offenbach to death. before similar cases in freiburg, kandel, wiesbaden, berlin, duesseldorf.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[ELVIS123456]

This is probably as good a time and place as anywhere to speak about what the liberals are trying to stop people talking about.

This issue of people protesting in the streets in Germany against the apparent and real culture clash that is occuring all over Europe is not as simple a 'racist' issue as liberals believe.

 

As someone that has been around a long time, I am well aware of the inherent distrust (racist) views of those people living in a country towards those people who come to that country.

I copped a bit of that 'grief' as a Pommie Bast^^^d  when we migrated to Australia as a young boy.

Then it was myself and others who gave that the the Greeks and Italians and Lebanese when those waves arrived.

 

But I was impartial when that grief was then later given to the Vietnamese and Cambodians and other Asians when that wave arrived.

The reason was that I had come to learn that these 'different' cultures actually added to Australias cultures, and although some adults resisted, their children became 'Aussies'.

The truth became very clear to me as the children of the immigrants (like mine) became full on Aussies.

It was to varying degress, but overall each wave 'integrated' and 'changed' Aussie culture - and although aware of their past and customs, their children became more Aussie than not.

We even had shows like WogBoy and My Greek Wedding where we ridiculed and laughed at the inflexible differences of the parents on both sides.

 

However, I have seen another wave of immigration that has not undertaken this change, and much of that wave has made very little progress at 'integration'.

And it is not a wave of people from a different culture/country, it is a wave from a different religion - Islam.

Aside from some certain countries, the majority of the children and their children's children are refusing to to integrate or adjust to western culture and values.

This is creating a huge discontent - on both sides - and it is the heart of the problem - the absolute refusal to accept western culture, values and rules/laws.

This then goes to the next level when many demand to be able to live in enclaves where western rules and laws do not apply - causing even further discontent.

 

And no matter how bad it became in the past between any of the waves of immigrants to the west and the 'locals', none of them committed acts of terrorism against innocent locals. 

And none of them demanded the locals change their laws and rules to accomodate their different religiously based social, family and society values.

And none of them actively preached to their own people that the west was decendant and evil and should be 'changed'.

And I cannot remember the mayor of any wave changing things because it offended that wave's values (London Mayor banning pictures of girls in bikinis).

 

But it is not from all countries that the people of this religion are unaccepting of the 'live and let live' mantra and are completely unwilling to adjust.

People of certain countries that do hold that religion are actually adjusting and integrating - such as from Pakistan - as they share some common understandings (eg. cricket).

But most of this wave is coming from countries that do not hold those understandings, and they refuse to adjust and integrate, and their children and their children never will.

 

That is the core of the problem - immigration is about leaving the values of another country and embracing and accepting (as much as possible) the values of the new one.

That is what all the previous waves of immigration to the west did eventually - all to different levels and all over different times/generations - but they all do it eventually.

 

This integrationa and adjustment is not possible for most of this wave of immigrants to the west, as they see their country, their culture and their religion as the same thing.

We in the west have seperated Church and State and Laws - but the current wave of people immigrating to the west have not and will not make such a seperation.

The truth is we are expecting too much of them to do that, and they are more and more resenting being expected to do that, and some are becoming more radical.

They actively and forcefully impose their religious values upon their families and children, as was done to themselves - it is the way the religion works - it encompasses all things.

 

This is the reality that most liberals refuse to acknowledge - they see all negatives and complaints as racist - they cannot see the difference.

They cannot see that most of this wave of 'religious immigrants' will not (and cannot) undertake the same change that previous immigration waves did.

 

And it is foolish to expect the locals to continually accept this patiently and wait for them to adjust and to change and to accept their values.

The reality is that this is not the same as was the case with immigrants in the past - many years and several generations have shown this to be the truth.

And history has shown this to be the truth too.

Does anyone really think that the Asian peoples in Indonesia and Malaysia 'naturally' changed to another religion - they were 'converted'.

Does anyone really believe that the peoples of Indonesia and Malaysia within a few hundred years gave up a religion that was in place for over 2000 years.

Does anyone know of a country that has been 'taken over' by Islam that has then changed to another religion 'naturally' - it has never happened - they have to be driven out.

 

Whilst the left wing liberals are happy to accept these ongoing and growing problems as merely 'teething issues, more and more people are not.

More and more people are beginning to see that immigration needs to be controlled and all applicants vetted to ensure they are 'compatible'.

At what point do you think that the Muslim immigrants to Malaysia (and then Indonesia) were of enough numbers to 'convert' the country - 40%?  50%?  60%?

 

That is what Germans and others are protesting about - that is the core of their fears - that their culture and society will go the way of Malysia and Indonesia.

There is enough remaining in European memories to remember that this is what happened to Italy and Spain - until the Muslims were driven out.

They fear that most Muslims cannot peacefully coexist with other cultures, and that once they get to a certain percentage they will attempt to take over.

What happened in India when the Muslims and the Hindus/Sikhs formed their own countries (India and Pakistan) is what many people fear in Europe.  

 

Shutting down those expressions of fear as being xenophobic and using PC pressure is no longer working - social media is allowing people to speak out.

The people of Europe and the west want to see concrete and real solutions to this growing problem - they are refusing to be 'shut down' anymore.

Unless the western Govts of today acknowledge the issue and address it with real solutions, then the 'real' far right will take advantage and continue to drive violence and change.

Far better it would be for the western Govts to address the 'elephant in the room' before it gets seriously out of hand - vigilantees will be just the beginning otherwise.

 

[ELVIS123456]

51 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Again look at current definitions of 'far right". Some members commentary precisely, including yours, fall under the definition/s. Accusing me of supporting 'fake immigrants' is a complete lie. 

 

You are using the same tactics you accuse people of using who reject your politics, from the left (which I am not) and so on i.e. attempting to stifle / censor their opinions - time for you to wake up, as well as cease making false accusations against members.

Listen to what you said Simple One - "look at current definitions of 'far right"  "commentary precisely, including yours, fall under the definition/s"

 

You are completely locked into the belief that whatever a liberal academic defines as something, is that something.

 

Reality - because a liberal academic says something or defines something, does not make it so simple one.

Reality - because you can quote what an academic wrote, does not mean that you or the academic are correct simple one.

 

You are wrong to use the views of academics as any sort of factual evidence that your own correlating views are therefore correct.

If you cannot defend your own opinions with your own articulated and reasoned thoughts, then your views are invalid - typically this means they are based on emotions and not reasons.

 

There is still time for you simple one, all you have to do is assess the facts impassionately and impartially, and then form your own views and opinions.

As the twitter trending statement of the month/year says:  #walkaway  Get wise to the liberal hypocrisy and unreasoned views and get #woke and #walkaway

 

 

[Mikeasq60]

30 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

This is probably as good a time and place as anywhere to speak about what the liberals are trying to stop people talking about.

This issue of people protesting in the streets in Germany against the apparent and real culture clash that is occuring all over Europe is not as simple a 'racist' issue as liberals believe.

 

As someone that has been around a long time, I am well aware of the inherent distrust (racist) views of those people living in a country towards those people who come to that country.

I copped a bit of that 'grief' as a Pommie Bast^^^d  when we migrated to Australia as a young boy.

Then it was myself and others who gave that the the Greeks and Italians and Lebanese when those waves arrived.

 

But I was impartial when that grief was then later given to the Vietnamese and Cambodians and other Asians when that wave arrived.

The reason was that I had come to learn that these 'different' cultures actually added to Australias cultures, and although some adults resisted, their children became 'Aussies'.

The truth became very clear to me as the children of the immigrants (like mine) became full on Aussies.

It was to varying degress, but overall each wave 'integrated' and 'changed' Aussie culture - and although aware of their past and customs, their children became more Aussie than not.

We even had shows like WogBoy and My Greek Wedding where we ridiculed and laughed at the inflexible differences of the parents on both sides.

 

However, I have seen another wave of immigration that has not undertaken this change, and much of that wave has made very little progress at 'integration'.

And it is not a wave of people from a different culture/country, it is a wave from a different religion - Islam.

Aside from some certain countries, the majority of the children and their children's children are refusing to to integrate or adjust to western culture and values.

This is creating a huge discontent - on both sides - and it is the heart of the problem - the absolute refusal to accept western culture, values and rules/laws.

This then goes to the next level when many demand to be able to live in enclaves where western rules and laws do not apply - causing even further discontent.

 

And no matter how bad it became in the past between any of the waves of immigrants to the west and the 'locals', none of them committed acts of terrorism against innocent locals. 

And none of them demanded the locals change their laws and rules to accomodate their different religiously based social, family and society values.

And none of them actively preached to their own people that the west was decendant and evil and should be 'changed'.

And I cannot remember the mayor of any wave changing things because it offended that wave's values (London Mayor banning pictures of girls in bikinis).

 

But it is not from all countries that the people of this religion are unaccepting of the 'live and let live' mantra and are completely unwilling to adjust.

People of certain countries that do hold that religion are actually adjusting and integrating - such as from Pakistan - as they share some common understandings (eg. cricket).

But most of this wave is coming from countries that do not hold those understandings, and they refuse to adjust and integrate, and their children and their children never will.

 

That is the core of the problem - immigration is about leaving the values of another country and embracing and accepting (as much as possible) the values of the new one.

That is what all the previous waves of immigration to the west did eventually - all to different levels and all over different times/generations - but they all do it eventually.

 

This integrationa and adjustment is not possible for most of this wave of immigrants to the west, as they see their country, their culture and their religion as the same thing.

We in the west have seperated Church and State and Laws - but the current wave of people immigrating to the west have not and will not make such a seperation.

The truth is we are expecting too much of them to do that, and they are more and more resenting being expected to do that, and some are becoming more radical.

They actively and forcefully impose their religious values upon their families and children, as was done to themselves - it is the way the religion works - it encompasses all things.

 

This is the reality that most liberals refuse to acknowledge - they see all negatives and complaints as racist - they cannot see the difference.

They cannot see that most of this wave of 'religious immigrants' will not (and cannot) undertake the same change that previous immigration waves did.

 

And it is foolish to expect the locals to continually accept this patiently and wait for them to adjust and to change and to accept their values.

The reality is that this is not the same as was the case with immigrants in the past - many years and several generations have shown this to be the truth.

And history has shown this to be the truth too.

Does anyone really think that the Asian peoples in Indonesia and Malaysia 'naturally' changed to another religion - they were 'converted'.

Does anyone really believe that the peoples of Indonesia and Malaysia within a few hundred years gave up a religion that was in place for over 2000 years.

Does anyone know of a country that has been 'taken over' by Islam that has then changed to another religion 'naturally' - it has never happened - they have to be driven out.

 

Whilst the left wing liberals are happy to accept these ongoing and growing problems as merely 'teething issues, more and more people are not.

More and more people are beginning to see that immigration needs to be controlled and all applicants vetted to ensure they are 'compatible'.

At what point do you think that the Muslim immigrants to Malaysia (and then Indonesia) were of enough numbers to 'convert' the country - 40%?  50%?  60%?

 

That is what Germans and others are protesting about - that is the core of their fears - that their culture and society will go the way of Malysia and Indonesia.

There is enough remaining in European memories to remember that this is what happened to Italy and Spain - until the Muslims were driven out.

They fear that most Muslims cannot peacefully coexist with other cultures, and that once they get to a certain percentage they will attempt to take over.

What happened in India when the Muslims and the Hindus/Sikhs formed their own countries (India and Pakistan) is what many people fear in Europe.  

 

Shutting down those expressions of fear as being xenophobic and using PC pressure is no longer working - social media is allowing people to speak out.

The people of Europe and the west want to see concrete and real solutions to this growing problem - they are refusing to be 'shut down' anymore.

Unless the western Govts of today acknowledge the issue and address it with real solutions, then the 'real' far right will take advantage and continue to drive violence and change.

Far better it would be for the western Govts to address the 'elephant in the room' before it gets seriously out of hand - vigilantees will be just the beginning otherwise.

 

Thank you Sir well written and it spells out whats going on. I believe people aren't stupid and trust that people will do the right thing! Without govt spelling out what they want!