UK names two Russians for attempted murder of Skripals with nerve agent

[snoop1130]

UK names two Russians for attempted murder of Skripals with nerve agent

By Michael Holden, Guy Faulconbridge

 

Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov, who were formally accused of attempting to murder former Russian intelligence officer Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury, are seen on CCTV at Salisbury Station on March 4, 2018 in an image handed out by the Metropolitan Police in London, Britain September 5, 2018. Metroplitan Police handout via REUTERS

 

LONDON (Reuters) - British prosecutors on Wednesday identified two Russians who they accused of trying to murder former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia with a military-grade nerve agent in England.

 

Skripal, a former colonel in Russian military intelligence who betrayed dozens of agents to Britain’s MI6 foreign spy service, and his daughter Yulia, were found unconscious on a public bench in the southern city of Salisbury on March 4.

 

Britain has blamed Russia for the poisonings and identified the poison as Novichok, a deadly group of nerve agents developed by the Soviet military in the 1970s and 1980s. Russia has repeatedly denied any involvement in the attack.

 

British prosecutors named the two suspects as Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov, who police said arrived in Britain from Moscow on March 2 at London’s Gatwick airport on an Aeroflot flight and left on March 4. Police released images of the two men.

 

Neil Basu, Head of UK Counter Terrorism policing, said the two suspects were travelling under aliases but were around 40 years old and had genuine Russian passports.

 

“We would like to hear from anyone who knows them,” Basu said. Russia’s foreign ministry said the names given by Britain did not mean anything to them.

 

Basu said Novichok was sprayed on the front door of Skripal’s house in Salisbury, where the two men were sighted on CCTV nearby. Basu said traces of Novichok contamination were found in the London hotel room where the two men had stayed.

 

“Tests were carried out in the hotel room where the suspects had stayed. Two swabs showed contamination of Novichok of levels below that which would cause concern for public health,” Basu said.

 

NOVICHOK PERFUME

 

A European arrest warrant has been issued for the two Russians, the prosecutors said.

 

The Russians are charged with conspiracy to murder Sergei Skripal and the attempted murder of Skripal, his daughter and Nick Bailey, a police officer who was taken ill while attending to the Skripals.

 

They are also charged with use and possession of Novichok, contrary to the Chemical Weapons Act.

 

“We will not be applying to Russia for the extradition of these men as the Russian constitution does not permit extradition of its own nationals,” said Sue Hemming, director of Legal Services at the Crown Prosecution Service.

 

A British woman, Dawn Sturgess, died in July after coming across a small bottle containing Novichok near Salisbury where the Skripals were struck down. Her partner, Charlie Rowley, was also stricken.

 

Police said Rowley and Sturgess had found a counterfeit Nina Ricci Premier Jour perfume bottle which tests later showed had contained Novichok.

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-9-5

[Grouse]

Problem is, they can't be extradited legally 

 

Hostage swap? The Russians would understand that!

[Esso49]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Problem is, they can't be extradited legally 

 

Hostage swap? The Russians would understand that!

Well clearly the Russians appear to be the culprits but I would neither trust the Tories or the Russians to be truthful about anything.

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

Well clearly the Russians appear to be the culprits but I would neither trust the Tories or the Russians to be truthful about anything.

You've been reading John L' Carre again! ?

[Brunolem]

The UK has two famous spies: James Bond and Johnny English.

 

With the Skripal case, we are definitely in the world of Johnny English, with morons facing even bigger morons.

In the latter case, the totally incompetent Russian secret service, careful enough to provide his totally incompetent agents with fake names, but stupid enough to let them use Russian passports and fly directly from Moscow to London and back, on Aeroflot!!!

 

Seriously?

 

With such clownish "enemies", the West has really little to fear and should  better cut its military budget, then use the savings to rebuild its crumbling infrastructure...just sayin'...

[Basil B]

Co incidentally the on BBC News yesterday was a piece on the National Crime Agency, using advanced AI (Artificial Intelligence) to trawl through CCTV, Emails, phone records, bank accounts, travel documents and much more.

 

Fact is a computer can do a lot of the donkey work a lot faster than humans and they are getting some good results, all the human element needs to do is verify the results.

 

I am sure they are spot on with these two, but getting them before the courts is another matter and they were probably following orders, so the real villeins are the ones who controlled them.

 

Unless they were travelling as diplomats we will have their bio-metrics on record so if they were to return to the UK they would be arrested also we probably pass on that data and they run the risk of being subject to intentional arrest warrants in many countries outside Russia, so their travel plans will be very limited.     

 

 

[friendofthai]

1 hour ago, Brunolem said:

With the Skripal case, we are definitely in the world of Johnny English,

We sure are! And the funniest thing is ... 
The terrorists know that according to the US law, the US have to answer automatically only if they use chemical weapons. And they did choose the worst method in the world to kill the victims.

Edited September 5, 2018 by friendofthai

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The CNN report on the UK charges against these two Russians indicates the UK believes the pair of members of Russia's GRU, the military intelligence service.
 

Quote

 

UK Prime Minister Theresa May told lawmakers that Britain believes the two suspects to be officers of the Russian military intelligence service, known as the GRU.
 

"The GRU is a highly disciplined organization with a well-established chain of command, so this was not a rogue operation, it was almost certainly also approved outside the GRU at a senior level of the Russian state," she said in a statement to the House of Commons.

 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/05/uk/uk-russians-novichok-intl/index.html

[Topdoc]

Battle for Idlib about to commence, Britain suddenly whisk out evidence after 6 months of deafening silence. Coincidence or impeccable timing ?

[Topdoc]

CCTV images released by Scotland yard today allegedly show Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov both occupying exactly the same space at Gatwick airport at precisely the same second. 16.22.43 on 2 March 2018. Note neither photo shows the other following less than a second behind.

 

Another coincidence ?

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

[Chomper Higgot]

I see the tinfoil hat mob are out in force today.

 

RT viewers?

Edited September 6, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[Kwasaki]

8 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

"The GRU is a highly disciplined organization with a well-established chain of command, so this was not a rogue operation, it was almost certainly also approved outside the GRU at a senior level of the Russian state," she said in a statement to the House of Commons.

Yeah I saw the guy behind her to the left shaking his head ' no ' and saying something to himself.

[Brunolem]

2 hours ago, Topdoc said:

CCTV images released by Scotland yard today allegedly show Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov both occupying exactly the same space at Gatwick airport at precisely the same second. 16.22.43 on 2 March 2018. Note neither photo shows the other following less than a second behind.

 

Another coincidence ?

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

Possible...if the two guys were moving at the speed of sound...

 

Meanwhile the Russian haters are out in force with their usual "arguments"...that is, providing no explanation for facts, such as these strange photos, or the even stranger massive incompetence of the Russian secret service, but rather resorting to mocking those who are able to think for themselves.

 

After all, one has really to be crazy (tinfoil hat) if one doesn't believe every single word uttered by one's government!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Dunno... they look pretty much like your typical Russian tourists to the U.K. to me... 

 

Not like they might be...oh, let's say... Russian military officers / assassins.

[car720]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Dunno... they look pretty much like your typical Russian tourists to the U.K. to me... 

 

Not like they might be...oh, let's say... Russian military officers / assassins.

Yep.  I don't think I would invite them home to cuddle the kiddies.

[Grouse]

We need George Smiley back

[Morch]

12 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Possible...if the two guys were moving at the speed of sound...

 

Meanwhile the Russian haters are out in force with their usual "arguments"...that is, providing no explanation for facts, such as these strange photos, or the even stranger massive incompetence of the Russian secret service, but rather resorting to mocking those who are able to think for themselves.

 

After all, one has really to be crazy (tinfoil hat) if one doesn't believe every single word uttered by one's government!

 

One (well, more than one) is apparently all too willing to believe every single word uttered by the Russian government.

Carry on.

[Lokie]

Iv never had the pleasure to come into UK via Gatwick but at Manchester for example there are four of these type of exit lanes after the Green zone at T1 to exit out of arrivals to public waiting area 

 

The two pics are not the same space but two different lanes hence perfectly no issue with the time stamps being same on both pics if they walked through two separate lanes at same time.

 

If you look closely the two gates are not the same, CCTV angle is slightly different and the gate bars sit at different positions next to walls each side - just saying like...

 

Hopefully someone who travels through gatwick may confirm this?

[colinneil]

When this crime was first reported, we had on here many UK haters saying it was not done by Russians, but the UK themselves, scaremongering.

Those members are noticeable by their absence on this thread.

[Brunolem]

12 hours ago, Morch said:

 

One (well, more than one) is apparently all too willing to believe every single word uttered by the Russian government.

Carry on.

The basic rule of law is that it is the accuser that carries the burden of proof, while the accused, in this case Russia, generally wait and denies.

 

The accuser, London, is bringing forward a neatly packaged story, with attached photos.

 

While most probably authentic, this story doesn't actually prove anything, and especially not a connection between these two guys and the Russian government.

 

It is dangerous to underestimate your opponent, in this case Russia, and believe this opponent is stupid.

 

These two guys have made "mistakes" that even I, not a spy by a long shot, would not make!

 

I mean, traveling on Aeroflot direct from Moscow with Russian passports while ignoring the cameras that everyone knows are everywhere these days...seriously?

 

It is as if these two guys had done their best to leave the most visible trail possible!

 

So, instead of letting your emotions take control, try to think, coldly, by looking at the facts, and asserting the probabilities of so many mistakes made by professional agents/killers...

 

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

The basic rule of law is that it is the accuser that carries the burden of proof, while the accused, in this case Russia, generally wait and denies.

 

The accuser, London, is bringing forward a neatly packaged story, with attached photos.

 

While most probably authentic, this story doesn't actually prove anything, and especially not a connection between these two guys and the Russian government.

 

It is dangerous to underestimate your opponent, in this case Russia, and believe this opponent is stupid.

 

These two guys have made "mistakes" that even I, not a spy by a long shot, would not make!

 

I mean, traveling on Aeroflot direct from Moscow with Russian passports while ignoring the cameras that everyone knows are everywhere these days...seriously?

 

It is as if these two guys had done their best to leave the most visible trail possible!

 

So, instead of letting your emotions take control, try to think, coldly, by looking at the facts, and asserting the probabilities of so many mistakes made by professional agents/killers...

 

You are assuming the presumption of innocence is applicable to nations. It is not.

 

The presumption of innocence has no legal standing in international relations.

 

Clearly a government has the whole of its government agencies, and secret services that are capable of taking an action and then hiding the facts/frustrating investigation.

 

Likewise no nation is going to presume innocence when facing a perceived threat from another nation. They may act on a basis of probability and of course may have to answer to international law and international/domestic opinion for their response based on a basis of probability, but no nation will sit waiting for guilt to be ‘proven’ when faced with a threat.

 

The idea that a foreign nation or government should be afforded a presumption of innocence is patently utter nonsense.

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

The basic rule of law is that it is the accuser that carries the burden of proof, while the accused, in this case Russia, generally wait and denies.

 

The accuser, London, is bringing forward a neatly packaged story, with attached photos.

 

While most probably authentic, this story doesn't actually prove anything, and especially not a connection between these two guys and the Russian government.

 

It is dangerous to underestimate your opponent, in this case Russia, and believe this opponent is stupid.

 

These two guys have made "mistakes" that even I, not a spy by a long shot, would not make!

 

I mean, traveling on Aeroflot direct from Moscow with Russian passports while ignoring the cameras that everyone knows are everywhere these days...seriously?

 

It is as if these two guys had done their best to leave the most visible trail possible!

 

So, instead of letting your emotions take control, try to think, coldly, by looking at the facts, and asserting the probabilities of so many mistakes made by professional agents/killers...

 

 

What "basic rule of law" are you on about? Is this some civil court case? International relations, especially as applied to covert ops doesn't usually follow your nonsensical assertion.

 

I somehow doubt you're an authority on both legal, forensic and espionage matters, not that it should discourage your from pronouncing strong views about "doesn't actually prove anything", and the usual stock nonsense denying connection to the Russian government,

 

I don't know that there was much underestimation of Russian opponents, at least not by professional counterparts. As for the apparently shoddy execution of the operation - once more, having no clue whatsoever and yet asserting you could do better. Sure thing. Then again, there were also views that the crassness was even intentional, sending a message and all that.

 

 

And instead of making up stuff about "emotions take control", perhaps better disengage the auto-deflect mode.

 

Try this for size:

 

Russia’s Military Intelligence Agency Isn’t Stupid

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/09/06/russias-military-intelligence-gru-isnt-stupid/

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You are assuming the presumption of innocence is applicable to nations. It is not.

 

The presumption of innocence has no legal standing in international relations.

 

Clearly a government has the whole of its government agencies, and secret services that are capable of taking an action and then hiding the facts/frustrating investigation.

 

Likewise no nation is going to presume innocence when facing a perceived threat from another nation. They may act on a basis of probability and of course may have to answer to international law and international/domestic opinion for their response based on a basis of probability, but no nation will sit waiting for guilt to be ‘proven’ when faced with a threat.

 

The idea that a foreign nation or government should be afforded a presumption of innocence is patently utter nonsense.

 

While I agree with the sentiment, this is comedy gold when reflecting on a recent topic.

[Guest]

On 9/6/2018 at 5:54 AM, Topdoc said:

Another coincidence ?

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

Quote

 

British Ambassador Craig Murray found her when she was 21, dancing for tips in a sleazy club in Tashkent, the capital. He tucked $20 into her embroidered panties, walked away from his wife and two children and brought his belly dancer to London to start a new life together.

 

Their liaison, now recounted nightly in her autobiographical London stage play, ultimately cost him his career 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/31/AR2008013103501.html?noredirect=on

 

Another coincidence he is so much against UK? ?

 

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Whatever you like...poke the bear, bombast...after all, it is you, the British, who are at the receiving end of a sarmat missile...given the state of the country, one can imagine why its government might become suicidal...

Are you now threatening with missiles? Those missiles better be equipped with nuclear warheads as there is no way two nuclear powers can have traditional war without going to engage with full blown global nuclear war. If that happens, so be it. We all will die.

 

The west would be pretty happy to just live and do business together with Russia. Russians doing episonage killings in the west is really not the way to do so.

 

If co-operation doesn't work, then I hope Russia would build a wall around it's borders and isolates itself from the rest of the world.. to maintain peace. 

 

Simply stop interfering and try to break the western unity. You are not part of it now, but who knows, when you have a real president in Russia, you might be. We are not that different after all.

 

[Jai Dee]

A couple of off-topic troll posts as well as replies have been removed from this thread.

[Kwasaki]

18 hours ago, Morch said:

 

One (well, more than one) is apparently all too willing to believe every single word uttered by the Russian government.

Carry on.

Well don't forget the US & it's UK puppet on a string gov..

[janclaes47]

4 hours ago, oilinki said:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/31/AR2008013103501.html?noredirect=on

 

Another coincidence he is so much against UK? ?

 

Of course a UK apologist would never bring up such facts, rather try to hide and deny such pesky details

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

Of course a UK apologist would never bring up such facts, rather try to hide and deny such pesky details

I'm quite far from being UK apologist. I'm just against Russian's, occasionally rather ridiculous ways to alter the information and create doubt.

 

First things first, do you have any credible source of these photos with those timestamps. Naturally the bellydancer hubby is not a valid source in this case. 

[Brunolem]

25 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

Of course a UK apologist would never bring up such facts, rather try to hide and deny such pesky details

You might want to save your energy, because in this case, like in a few others, there is way too much emotion and misinformation involved.

 

The Skripal case has to be seen from a much larger perspective than it is here.

 

There is an ongoing battle between divergent interests involving the West (US, UK, EU) on one side and the East (Russia, China, Iran) on the other side.

 

From this massive ongoing battle regularly emerge provocations which are blamed on one party or the other (Skripal, Ukraine, Syria, Chinese islands, currency manipulation...you name it).

 

Focussing on any particular event is missing the big picture.

 

The big picture is that the West is bent on pursuing its globalization project (unipolar world), with the US in the driving seat, because its very economic survival depends on it, while the East refuses to be integrated (multipolar world) in such a project and to become a US vassal.

 

For whatever reason, the Skripal were involved by third parties in this battle, but it could have been someone else...it really matters little compared to the massive dangers the world is facing...