Household Items Insurance 2018/19

[moogradod]

Does anybody have a recommendation and approx. idea about the premiums for insuring household items (inkl. Guitars, Electronics, PCs etc.) that are in a condo ? Insurance should cover mainly theft and destruction. I received an offer with absolutely ridiculous premiums. Have searched the forum but some indications are quite old (and far far below the offer that I got). The condo is well secured by the way.

 

Any idea very much appreciated since I need to react quickly. And no, I have no receipts - this is not necessary as well for I want to insure the replacement value. And this is in Thailand.

 

Thanks a lot for any idea.

[abrahamzvi]

Although I can't tell you what the premium rate would be, nor the limit per item if it exceeds a certain limit, I would strongly suggest you contact the MSIG, a Japanese insurance company, for a quote. I have been insured with them for quite a few years and I have no reason to complain

[Jeffrey346]

1 hour ago, abrahamzvi said:

Although I can't tell you what the premium rate would be, nor the limit per item if it exceeds a certain limit, I would strongly suggest you contact the MSIG, a Japanese insurance company, for a quote. I have been insured with them for quite a few years and I have no reason to complain

Have you filed a claim?

[topt]

3 hours ago, moogradod said:

Does anybody have a recommendation

Go to a local broker like AA Insurance or similar and request some comparative quotes especially mentioning specific values for individual items. There should be no difference in the premiums whether you go direct or via a broker and they can start you off.

 

I have had a policy with Safety which took over Thai policies from NZI some years ago and the premium for named items seems reasonable. As with all insurance strongly suggest you go through the small print for whatever you short list.

 

There was a post not so long ago bemoaning a premium from Axa so try others -

 

[JPFIT]

It depends on how much you are insuring it for.  If you contact:  MSIG Insurance (Thailand) PCL. 1908 MSIG Building, New Petchburi Road, Bangkapi, Huay Kwang, Bangkok 10310 | T: +66 2825 8888 | F: +66 2318

They will send you a price per amount insured.  Just doing mine and people say they are very good, they have branches all over Thailand.  My house is in Hua Hin, not sure where you are located if you need their number let me know.

[scorecard]

Tokyo Marine also very professional, and if you pay 3 years at a time they give a very good discount. 

[DGS1244]

I use AIA via Trafalgar Brokers in Bangkok and it comes out around 5,000 TBaht/year for approximately 1M coverage. This includes some items when used away from the residence.

[Antonymous]

1. Check out several companies and get quotes in writing with all the conditions. Don't take the word of the sales girl.

2. Read the policies very carefully. Often not what they seem at first glance. Check exclusions. Take your time and ask for clarification when in doubt.

3. Ask about discounts for purchasing a few years in advance, if you are sure to stay at that address. The premiums should come down dramatically. We use Bangkok Insurance for house and contents and paid I think for about 8 years in advance, which worked out very little per year for a good coverage.

[Antonymous]

I would add that you should use a broker only if you are someone who isn't very good at research (and I know that applies to many people). In my experience, buying several different types of insurance over the years, I have always obtained a better quote through my own research and direct contact with the insurer. In the case of our house insurance for example I got a recommendation from the broker that everyone here recommends, and compared it to four others that I obtained directly. The one I chose was far, far superior to the one pushed by the broker.

[dotpoom]

I bought my first house here for around 3MB.When I insured it for the first time I valued it at 4MB and paid the premium. One day it occured to me that the house was only worth a fraction of what the total worth of the house and land combined was...which meant that if my house was to burn to the ground, that would still leave the land intact.

  When the insurance was next due I valued the house at 2MB....and paid half what I paid the year before.

P.S.....I have since sold the house....."It never burned down to the ground".

[Naamblar2014]

14 hours ago, dotpoom said:

I bought my first house here for around 3MB.When I insured it for the first time I valued it at 4MB and paid the premium. One day it occured to me that the house was only worth a fraction of what the total worth of the house and land combined was...which meant that if my house was to burn to the ground, that would still leave the land intact.

  When the insurance was next due I valued the house at 2MB....and paid half what I paid the year before.

P.S.....I have since sold the house....."It never burned down to the ground".

I know the op was asking about household items, but a policy like you had on your house did that cover storm damage to a neighboring property,  say for instance a tree on your property falls on the house next door.  have always wondered, as I have a lot of trees.  Or should the neighbors have their own insurance?

[stevenl]

On 9/19/2018 at 10:02 AM, Naamblar2014 said:

I know the op was asking about household items, but a policy like you had on your house did that cover storm damage to a neighboring property,  say for instance a tree on your property falls on the house next door.  have always wondered, as I have a lot of trees.  Or should the neighbors have their own insurance?

Your liability insurance or neighbours house insurance.

[abrahamzvi]

On 9/18/2018 at 2:36 PM, Jeffrey346 said:

Have you filed a claim?

Yes, I did some 10 years ago and it was settled in a very satisfactory manner. It wasn't a big claim, but the way it was settled convinced me I was with the right insurer.

[moogradod]

I have tried now 2 brokers and one insurance. Seems that nobody wants to insure my condo contents at real replacement value (this is the amount I need to replace the item (or an equivalent) right now in Thailand if it is stolen or destroyed - irrespective of what I paid for it whenever and wherever. A possible claim without the original bill seems to be difficult if not impossible, too. But who keeps the bills for everthing ? And it should not matter anyway (see below).

 

Under these circumstances an insurance is useless in my opinion. I will try to get a quote in Switzerland for an expat insurance but I feel money is better invested in security measures than in insurance premiums. At least this seems to be the case in Thailand.

 

But maybe I was just unlucky (although I have involved heavily recommended insurance companies here).

 

And I wonder how anybody would conclude an insurance under these conditions. Destruction is another matter especially if you have a house, but insurance for theft of condo content (like guitars, stereos, TVs, PCs, books, CDs and BluRays (will be replaced only at material cost at 3 THB (what a nonsense, I have rare recordings)) or expensive kitchen appliances will obviously not be insured with full compensation as it should be if insured at replacement value. Why pay the premiums for something you will not get (permiums are calculated from the overall value indicated - but they dont want to pay exactly this value (or part thereof) in case of an incident - the best offer wants to pay the inital cost minus depreciation (you call this "Zeitwert" in German).

 

But it may be that the item in question was (even when new) acquired at a price much lower than at the price needed to replace it in Thailand. So "replacement value" is light years apart from that. But you pay the premiums in a % of this value.

 

I was looking for a fully blown alarm system with realtime surveillance and storage of videos outside of the house (cloud). Went to Tuckom. All I could find is some chinese stuff with limited functionality and reliability. Now I have at least a camera which allows me to follow a possible burglary from a remote place (some 10'000 km away) and if it works a video of the event.

 

 

 

[topt]

1 hour ago, moogradod said:

But maybe I was just unlucky (although I have involved heavily recommended insurance companies here).

Have you specifically asked for a quote/policy from Safety Insurance PLC?

 

That is what I have and it generally covers what you are asking at "full replacement cost" - and they have never asked for receipts. For specific personal items generally above a certain value (EG. watches, laptops, jewellery) I had to provide pictures and details but not difficult. 

 

On the bottom of my policy it says "For foreigner only" but not sure if this is because it migrated from NZI when they were bought out by AIG. 

 

On electronic media it is unfortunately fairly standard however to only pay the cost as if unused unless purchased pre-recorded so you may be out of luck there.

 

My policy is via AA Insurance so maybe worth asking if it is still available and for a condo as mine is for a house. At the time if I remember correctly it was one of the few that I could get reasonable cover for specific contents.

 

Best of luck.

[moogradod]

I will meet with AAinsurance on Monday and I will ask. Thanks for the valuable comment, topt.

 

All the media is prerecorded by the way - some CDs had to be bought via auction - they are so rare. But there is no claim for a special amount for that. Before the move it has been 1800 CDs but most of them were given away to our friends bringing only the very best.

[Henryford]

I use AA brokers, pay 3600 a year for my condo.

[moogradod]

I have some items that are quite expensive to replace. I will hopefully meet with AA tomorrow, but they said in an email that insurances in Thailand regard "Replacement Value" not to be the amount necessary to actually replace (buy new, import or whatever) the item or an equivalent item but a value based on the initial buying cost (which may be much more lower than it is in Thailand if aquired abroad) minus depreciation. In German such a value is called "Zeitwert" and completely different to "Replacement Cost". What good does an insurance do if you are not getting for what you pay the premiums ? (Because these are of course calculated on basis of the "Replacement Cost as indicated)

 

In their policy (Safety Insurance PLC) they speak about "agreed cost" but this term does not show up in the quotations (which are multiple times higher than posted here).

 

They say as well that a claim without buying receipt will be difficult or at least a very lengthy process. I am a bit confused since MANY recommend AAinsurance broker. I hope I can sort it out when I meet with them.

[topt]

5 hours ago, moogradod said:

They say as well that a claim without buying receipt will be difficult or at least a very lengthy process. I am a bit confused since MANY recommend AAinsurance broker. I hope I can sort it out when I meet with them.

Do you mind me asking which office and are you due to see a particular person?

[scorecard]

On 9/18/2018 at 4:09 PM, Antonymous said:

1. Check out several companies and get quotes in writing with all the conditions. Don't take the word of the sales girl.

2. Read the policies very carefully. Often not what they seem at first glance. Check exclusions. Take your time and ask for clarification when in doubt.

3. Ask about discounts for purchasing a few years in advance, if you are sure to stay at that address. The premiums should come down dramatically. We use Bangkok Insurance for house and contents and paid I think for about 8 years in advance, which worked out very little per year for a good coverage.

 

Quote:  1. Check out several companies and get quotes in writing with all the conditions. Don't take the word of the sales girl.

 

Great advice, many insurance sales people don't hesitate to tell you blatant lies to get your money.

 

Suggestions:

 

- Read every word before you sign. Tell the agent to come back tomorrow or whatever so you have time to read it properly.

- If the sales person says the company doesn't have a copy in English then don't believe them and/or go to another company.

- If the sales person says what your asking for is only on the master copy of the policy and it's not available to policy holders don't believe them and definitely withdraw.

- If the sales person says that policy holders are not allowed to contact the HO of the company don't believe them and definitely withdraw.

- Don't hesitate to contact the HO for any clarification and insist that they send you a copy in English. 

- Insist on a computer generated receipt, e.mailed to you direct from a HO e.mail address, for all premiums paid, never accept hand written or any other form of receipt coming direct from an agent.

- If the sales agent says they are entitled to demand a payment from you (e.g. 500Baht) for the first time they make contact with you don't believe them, not true.

- If the HO staff you speak to say  never mind, the agent is just trying to help you ', withdraw and go elsewhere.

 

All of the above comes from experiences my Thai son and his buddy had a few years back. 

 

Son now uses Tokio Marine for: Pension plan, Endowment plans, Personal Accident plans, Health insurance, House and contents, Vehicle insurance. 

 

Good luck.

 

[topt]

5 hours ago, moogradod said:

I have some items that are quite expensive to replace. I will hopefully meet with AA tomorrow, but they said in an email that insurances in Thailand regard "Replacement Value" not to be the amount necessary to actually replace (buy new, import or whatever) the item or an equivalent item but a value based on the initial buying cost (which may be much more lower than it is in Thailand if aquired abroad) minus depreciation.

Thanks - I will now be querying this with them on Tuesday as not my understanding 

 

Looking again at my my policy document it actually states a definition for "Agreed Values" which specifically states that s long as they have agreed it you are indemnified "without taking into account depreciation......"

 

There is another statement in the policy which talks about the 85% Average clause and if you are insured less than that for replacement as new that is all you will get which suggests that if insured for replacement value that is what you would get. 

 

As mentioned I may be fortunate in that the policy is a handover from a previous NZI policy (and for foreigners only) so new policies may be different. However worth asking AA and happy for you to quote the specifics I have mentioned.

 

As regards premium a recent reduction of the specified items of over 400k baht (mainly jewellery and laptops) resulted in an overall reduction of about 1,600 baht.

[moogradod]

topt, from what you say I take it that we both have the same policy document (it says as well "for foreigners only" at the end).

 

The quotes that I got do not even mention theft, but they are on original "Safety Insurance Public Limited Company" paper. What actually matters is what is in the contract that you sign, but what I stated above was mentioned to me by email from an AAinsurance representative. I have not contract yet, only quotations and explanations by email.

 

I will pm you with whom I am in contact. I am based in Pattaya. I have exactly 3 days to go to sign a contract before I will leave for a while. My insured items amount to roughly 3.6 Mio THB but obviously not everything may be insured - which would be OK - but the things which ARE must be insured at "agreed cost = replacement cost". Why have an insurance otherwise ? And why pay premiums based on a percentage of an amount that obviously will not be taken into account ?

 

At the best this is a misunderstanding - which I hope it is. Will drop into the Pattaya Office tomorrow.

[moogradod]

1 hour ago, topt said:

Do you mind me asking which office and are you due to see a particular person?

I tried to pm you but not sure if this was succesful.

[topt]

43 minutes ago, moogradod said:

I tried to pm you but not sure if this was succesful.

replied.

[moogradod]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

Son now uses Tokio Marine for: Pension plan, Endowment plans, Personal Accident plans, Health insurance, House and contents, Vehicle insurance.

Thanks for the hint. I had a look at their website. Regarding insurance of house/condo contents they have one clause that we could never accept: If you are away from the premises more than 7 (seven !) days, then burglary would not be covered anymore. So no more holidays or travel for more than 7 days away. So no Tokyo Marine for us at least for the condo insurance. Maybe they are very good in the other areas. I will look into that. Thanks again.

[scorecard]

7 minutes ago, moogradod said:

Thanks for the hint. I had a look at their website. Regarding insurance of house/condo contents they have one clause that we could never accept: If you are away from the premises more than 7 (seven !) days, then burglary would not be covered anymore. So no more holidays or travel for more than 7 days away. So no Tokyo Marine for us at least for the condo insurance. Maybe they are very good in the other areas. I will look into that. Thanks again.

NIce point, actually I forget to mention that we send an e.mail to them if we plan to be away from the house for 7 days or more and they reply quickly, this overrides the 7 days clause.