May challenges EU as Brexit talks hit 'impasse', sterling tumbles

[vogie]

16 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

You join a golf club, you sign a contract to pay your fees for the year, this covers staff costs, green fees, etc. You decide to leave half way through the year, your problem, you have to pay for your outstanding  obligations.......simple.

 

 

Yes but in all fairness, you shouldn't have to pay the other members fees too.

[stevenl]

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

Yes but in all fairness, you shouldn't have to pay the other members fees too.

If you agreed to that because you thought it was beneficial to you, yes, you do have to pay.

[vogie]

42 minutes ago, stevenl said:

If you agreed to that because you thought it was beneficial to you, yes, you do have to pay.

It has been estimated that the UK has €150 billion in assets within the EU since we became a member, so it looks like we built the damned golf club too.

Edited September 25, 2018 by vogie

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, vogie said:

It has been estimated that the UK has €150 billion in assets within the EU since we became a member, so it looks like we built the damned golf club too.

When are you going to pay back those assets? Is EU required to come to you to ask for you to pay what you own back?

 

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, oilinki said:

When are you going to pay back those assets? Is EU required to come to you to ask for you to pay what you own back?

 

 

Or could we stop acting like stupid childs for some time. Could we stop behaving like Brexit would be a fun thing. It's not and it will never be fun.

 

[sandyf]

10 hours ago, vogie said:

It has been estimated that the UK has €150 billion in assets within the EU since we became a member, so it looks like we built the damned golf club too.

One of the more far fetched estimates. You have obviously forgotten when the media just focused on the UK debt of over 100 billion. It was the asset factor that brought it down to the current level.

People should bear in mind that if it ever did go to court the EU would just pursue the total debt. It would be up to the UK to try and recover any asset value.

[dick dasterdly]

14 hours ago, oldhippy said:

A divorce without any payments?

Then who will pay the (rather high...) pensions of the British ex members of the European parliament - Farage isn't going to be pleased with that!

 

The uk has paid towards the pensions of all eu MPs throughout it's time as a member. 

 

The eu brit MPs will become ex-MPs once the uk leaves, and like any other employee that leaves a company - the contributions paid towards their pensions (by both employer and employee) will stop.

 

Of course the contributions paid previously will be invested by the 'company' to cover the future 'liability' of their pension when it becomes payable.

[dick dasterdly]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

One of the more far fetched estimates. You have obviously forgotten when the media just focused on the UK debt of over 100 billion. It was the asset factor that brought it down to the current level.

People should bear in mind that if it ever did go to court the EU would just pursue the total debt. It would be up to the UK to try and recover any asset value.

The question is precisely what debts are owed by the uk to the eu?

 

I can understand that the uk needs to continue contributing towards the 'budget period' to which they previously agreed (as it's the same as entering into a contract for a certain period of time), but can't remember when that 'budget period' ends?

[melvinmelvin]

49 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

The uk has paid towards the pensions of all eu MPs throughout it's time as a member. 

 

The eu brit MPs will become ex-MPs once the uk leaves, and like any other employee that leaves a company - the contributions paid towards their pensions (by both employer and employee) will stop.

 

Of course the contributions paid previously will be invested by the 'company' to cover the future 'liability' of their pension when it becomes payable.

 

it is not only MPs,

its also all the employees in the EU organization, not least in the Commission.

 

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

The uk has paid towards the pensions of all eu MPs throughout it's time as a member. 

 

The eu brit MPs will become ex-MPs once the uk leaves, and like any other employee that leaves a company - the contributions paid towards their pensions (by both employer and employee) will stop.

 

Of course the contributions paid previously will be invested by the 'company' to cover the future 'liability' of their pension when it becomes payable.

 

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

it is not only MPs,

its also all the employees in the EU organization, not least in the Commission.

 

The same thing applies to all the others employed by the EU.

 

The uk paid towards their pensions throughout it's time as a member.  Membership ceases - only the other remaining members continue to pay for the employees that continue in their employ.

 

I'm clearly missing the point here, as it seems very obvious to me. 

Edited September 26, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[melvinmelvin]

18 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

The same thing applies to all the others employed by the EU.

 

The uk paid towards their pensions throughout it's time as a member.  Membership ceases - only the other remaining members continue to pay for the employees that continue in their employ.

 

I'm clearly missing the point here, as it seems very obvious to me. 

 

I tend to agree with that,

I have never understood why UK should contribute towards future pensions after UK leave

 

as to all the Brits in the Commission, up to the Commission to sack 'em or try keep 'em

pension - Commissions problem not the UKs

[Guest]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

The same thing applies to all the others employed by the EU.

 

The uk paid towards their pensions throughout it's time as a member.  Membership ceases - only the other remaining members continue to pay for the employees that continue in their employ.

 

I'm clearly missing the point here, as it seems very obvious to me. 

I find it rather funny how people concentrate to that 40-70 billion euros bill, which UK must pay as agreed. 

 

The real cost of Brexit is in a different scale altogether. I admit nobody knows what it will be, but I guess everyone agrees that 50 billion euros is peanuts compared to the damages over the next few decades. 

[superal]

7 minutes ago, oilinki said:

I find it rather funny how people concentrate to that 40-70 billion euros bill, which UK must pay as agreed. 

 

The real cost of Brexit is in a different scale altogether. I admit nobody knows what it will be, but I guess everyone agrees that 50 billion euros is peanuts compared to the damages over the next few decades. 

Please explain

[Guest]

Just now, superal said:

Please explain

40 billion euros is about 100 euros per EU person. Not a really significant number.

 

UK loses it's status of being the default gateway for foreign companies to EU. These companies will move to countries which are in the EU.

 

As financial services are a large part of UK economy, losing those services to other EU countries, will hurt UK rather badly.

 

If you wish, you can convince me otherwise. I have asked before what UK actually produces and have not got clear answers. If UK masters large variety of goods production, UK will be just fine. But if UK's exports are mainly services, thats bad news for UK.

[SheungWan]

Sterling has subsequently been holding up quite well. So much for the noise.

[ivor bigun]

I find it rather funny how people concentrate to that 40-70 billion euros bill, which UK must pay as agreed. 

 

The real cost of Brexit is in a different scale altogether. I admit nobody knows what it will be, but I guess everyone agrees that 50 billion euros is peanuts compared to the damages over the next few decades. 

Actually very few people agree,except perhaps in your mind

 

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[superal]

1 hour ago, oilinki said:

40 billion euros is about 100 euros per EU person. Not a really significant number.

 

UK loses it's status of being the default gateway for foreign companies to EU. These companies will move to countries which are in the EU.

 

As financial services are a large part of UK economy, losing those services to other EU countries, will hurt UK rather badly.

 

If you wish, you can convince me otherwise. I have asked before what UK actually produces and have not got clear answers. If UK masters large variety of goods production, UK will be just fine. But if UK's exports are mainly services, thats bad news for UK.

Ironically TM has just announced that it is the UK Government plan to introduce the lowest rates of business tax throughout Europe which will encourage new businesses to the UK , at  the possible expense to the EU and halt any possible UK exodus , much to critical comments from the EU . Could it be that she has decided that enough is enough and that the talking is over or is it another " call " in this game of poker ?

Who is going to blink first ?

[Orac]

Ironically TM has just announced that it is the UK Government plan to introduce the lowest rates of business tax throughout Europe which will encourage new businesses to the UK , at  the possible expense to the EU and halt any possible UK exodus , much to critical comments from the EU . Could it be that she has decided that enough is enough and that the talking is over or is it another " call " in this game of poker ?
Who is going to blink first ?

Cutting corporation tax is not exactly a new suggestion and what is lacking is details about where the shortfall would be made up - the Chancellor has already got to come up with the extra money for the NHS that was promised a few weeks back so it suggests he will need to either increase taxes elsewhere or borrow and increase the already high debt level.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-36699642



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[Guest]

14 minutes ago, superal said:

Ironically TM has just announced that it is the UK Government plan to introduce the lowest rates of business tax throughout Europe which will encourage new businesses to the UK , at  the possible expense to the EU and halt any possible UK exodus , much to critical comments from the EU . Could it be that she has decided that enough is enough and that the talking is over or is it another " call " in this game of poker ?

Who is going to blink first ?

Ironical indeed. UK has to do these tax tricks, which will lover the income of the country which was to be used for common good like education and healthcare, to compensate the lost revenues because of Brexit. 

 

That doesn't sound like doing a good service for common people. Does it?

 

[melvinmelvin]

53 minutes ago, superal said:

Ironically TM has just announced that it is the UK Government plan to introduce the lowest rates of business tax throughout Europe which will encourage new businesses to the UK , at  the possible expense to the EU and halt any possible UK exodus , much to critical comments from the EU . Could it be that she has decided that enough is enough and that the talking is over or is it another " call " in this game of poker ?

Who is going to blink first ?

could be, dont think so though

guess that she has quite simply started rambling 'cause nobody wants her summer plan, which according to her

is THE ONLY way to a deal

 

[superal]

12 hours ago, oilinki said:

Ironical indeed. UK has to do these tax tricks, which will lover the income of the country which was to be used for common good like education and healthcare, to compensate the lost revenues because of Brexit. 

 

That doesn't sound like doing a good service for common people. Does it?

 

I do not want to drift away from the topic with a discussion on the mechanics of the UK finances but you would hope that the effects of a low business tax had been thought through . Possibly higher employment meaning less benefit claims , leading to higher spending , along with the savings made from Brexit may be a factor . Indeed the austerity measures over the last 10 years have had a catastrophic impact on the healthcare , police and education systems . Not to mention the value of the pound in the pocket .

TM is facing a huge leadership challenge next week at the Tory party conference on both the Brexit deal & home economics and I have to say she has one hell of a lot on her plate especially with the lack of loyalty within her divided party. 

[sandyf]

20 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

The question is precisely what debts are owed by the uk to the eu?

 

I can understand that the uk needs to continue contributing towards the 'budget period' to which they previously agreed (as it's the same as entering into a contract for a certain period of time), but can't remember when that 'budget period' ends?

The level of debt has always been a closely guarded secret, as has the assets. I suspect the leaked estimates on the debt were exaggerated to make the final figure that much more acceptable.

As for the budget.

 

Britain signed up to the EU’s budget framework when it became a member; budgets are not calculated year by year. The EU budget is a “legal act” and is over a seven year span. The last one started in 2014 and it ends in 2020. So, when Britain leaves the EU—tentatively set for March, 2019—it will still be liable to pay its share for the remaining seven quarters—from April 2019 until the end of 2020.

https://qz.com/1134703/brexit-divorce-bill-explained-why-the-uk-needs-to-pay-the-eu-to-leave/

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, superal said:

Ironically TM has just announced that it is the UK Government plan to introduce the lowest rates of business tax throughout Europe which will encourage new businesses to the UK , at  the possible expense to the EU and halt any possible UK exodus , much to critical comments from the EU . Could it be that she has decided that enough is enough and that the talking is over or is it another " call " in this game of poker ?

Who is going to blink first ?

People should bear in mind that business tax only has any significance if there is business to be taxed.

Out of the EU there will be a lot less 'pros' to business in the UK than this particular 'con' by the 'cons'.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

The level of debt has always been a closely guarded secret, as has the assets. I suspect the leaked estimates on the debt were exaggerated to make the final figure that much more acceptable.

As for the budget.

 

Britain signed up to the EU’s budget framework when it became a member; budgets are not calculated year by year. The EU budget is a “legal act” and is over a seven year span. The last one started in 2014 and it ends in 2020. So, when Britain leaves the EU—tentatively set for March, 2019—it will still be liable to pay its share for the remaining seven quarters—from April 2019 until the end of 2020.

https://qz.com/1134703/brexit-divorce-bill-explained-why-the-uk-needs-to-pay-the-eu-to-leave/

I've lost track, but if the net uk payment to the eu is 8.6 bn p.a. - then if the uk leaves in Mar. '19

and owes for 7 quarters until the end of the current budget period, then they owe approx. 15 bn?  Less the uk's share of eu assets?

 

I'm 'using' the 'budget period' as the equivalent to a contract period.

 

If this is anything close to correct, then the eu owes the uk a lot of money ????!

 

Having said this, I realise that the uk/eu 'contract' is likely to be entirely different to a 'normal' contract - and I'm sure various (very expensive!) lawyers on both sides are salivating at the prospect of arguing the financial case in the event of 'no deal'....

 

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[superal]

6 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I've lost track, but if the net uk payment to the eu is 8.6 bn p.a. - then if the uk leaves in Mar. '19

and owes for 7 quarters until the end of the current budget period, then they owe approx. 15 bn?  Less the uk's share of eu assets?

 

I'm 'using' the 'budget period' as the equivalent to a contract period.

 

If this is anything close to correct, then the eu owes the uk a lot of money ????!

 

Having said this, I realise that the uk/eu 'contract' is likely to be entirely different to a 'normal' contract - and I'm sure various (very expensive!) lawyers on both sides are salivating at the prospect of arguing the financial case in the event of 'no deal'....

 

 

 

 

The whole scenario is really a huge bag of unopened tins of worms with as you say the top lawyers in for a killing . History in the making and many precedence's to be made . 

[bristolboy]

7 hours ago, sandyf said:

People should bear in mind that business tax only has any significance if there is business to be taxed.

Out of the EU there will be a lot less 'pros' to business in the UK than this particular 'con' by the 'cons'.

Not just that. If companies think that they can do business in the EU but claim tax domicile in the UK, I think they will find that the EU won't be very receptive to that argument.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Not just that. If companies think that they can do business in the EU but claim tax domicile in the UK, I think they will find that the EU won't be very receptive to that argument.

 

If their earnings are in the UK the HMRC will tax them. Nothing to do with the EU at all.

 

I get 3 pensions and all are UK derived so that is where I pay income tax.

[Kwasaki]

14 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Not just that. If companies think that they can do business in the EU but claim tax domicile in the UK, I think they will find that the EU won't be very receptive to that argument.

Who knows, the businesses will try to do the business whatever happens and there are many places available other than the control freak EU club.

[sandyf]

22 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I've lost track, but if the net uk payment to the eu is 8.6 bn p.a. - then if the uk leaves in Mar. '19

and owes for 7 quarters until the end of the current budget period, then they owe approx. 15 bn?  Less the uk's share of eu assets?

 

I'm 'using' the 'budget period' as the equivalent to a contract period.

 

If this is anything close to correct, then the eu owes the uk a lot of money ????!

 

Having said this, I realise that the uk/eu 'contract' is likely to be entirely different to a 'normal' contract - and I'm sure various (very expensive!) lawyers on both sides are salivating at the prospect of arguing the financial case in the event of 'no deal'....

 

 

 

 

There is a lot more to it than just the budget. 

Very unlikely it would ever get to court, both TM and Phillip Hammond have said many times the UK would honour all liabilities and commitments, a U turn on that would be the end of their careers and what is left of UK credibility. 

[sandyf]

12 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

If their earnings are in the UK the HMRC will tax them. Nothing to do with the EU at all.

 

I get 3 pensions and all are UK derived so that is where I pay income tax.

The point was that there can be a difference between where earnings are created and where they are declared. The poster was referring to the UK possibly following Ireland's lead. Ireland closed the loophole in 2015 but there is every chance that others will/have be/been used.

 

Apple revealed on Tuesday that the arrangements dated back over 30 years and had been negotiated with Ireland’s government, which has long angered European peers such as France and Germany by helping multinationals to avoid paying tax on sales its makes to their citizens in their domestic markets.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-tax-loophole-idUSBRE94K0MH20130521

Edited September 28, 2018 by sandyf