An ‘auspicious’ beginning?

[rooster59]

An ‘auspicious’ beginning?

By KORNRAWEE PANYASUPPAKUN 
THE NATION WEEKEND

 

File photo

 

Thailand has double the recommended rate of surgical births, and that could be a problem, say experts

 

THOUGH THE story of Mae Nak Phra Khanong, a woman who died in a difficult childbirth over a century ago, no longer scares Thai mothers-to-be, nearly one out of every three babies still arrives via C-section in Thailand.

 

The reason for this is that mothers choose to go under the knife due to fear of labour pains, superstitious beliefs or to take advantage of the packages offered by private hospitals. 

 

 “In Thailand, 35 per cent of all babies are born by caesarean section, but the World Health Organisation puts the ideal rate at 10 to 15 per cent,” Professor Dr Pisake Lumbiganon, president of the Royal Thai College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, said.

 

The high rate of C-sections in Thailand, he said, can be attributed to a lack of health literacy, as most women -– including those working in healthcare – believe a C-section is safer and better than natural delivery. Also, Pisake said, going under the knife allows parents to manage their time and choose a lucky date of birth. 

 

One mother, who asked not to be named, said she chose surgical birth due to fear of labour pains.

 

“After we made the decision, we went to a venerated abbot and had him pick a date. He chose a holiday, which was also very convenient for us,” she explained. Her son was born on December 5 – the birthday of late King Rama IX. 

 

 

Likewise, Kedsanee, a nurse at Bangkok Hospital Pattaya, said she had given birth to a healthy boy via C-section. 

 

“The obstetrician himself picked the date for me. It was the 6th day of the 6th month in year 61. He said number 6 was lucky,” she said. Her son was born on June 6, 2018 or 2561 BE (Buddhist Era).

 

The belief that a person’s birthday determines the course of their life is prevalent in Thai society, especially among well-to-do people and celebrities who can afford to cover the costs of a C-section. 

 

Chompoo Araya Hargate, a top Thai celebrity, and her billionaire husband, for instance, had renowned feng shui master Grienggrai Boontaganon set the delivery date for her. 

 

And she is not alone.

 

According to Chinese belief, as soon as sunlight touches a baby’s skin, the wheel of fortune is set in motion, Grienggrai told The Nation Weekend. 

 

However, he said, it is difficult to come up with an auspicious date and time. “They comprise five elements – good health, prosperity, supportive relationship, parents’ prosperity and a smooth life – and there are very few dates that yield all of these.

 

“Many people are naturally born on fortunate dates and became millionaires. But natural birth is like a game of chance – if the baby is born on a bad date, they may encounter setbacks in life,” he said. 

 

Famous fortune-teller Arunwich Wongjatupat said nine out of 10 parents look for dates that will yield either prosperity or leadership qualities for their soon-to-be-born child. According to Thai belief, the stars begin affecting our life as soon as the umbilical cord is cut, he explained. 

 

Some “stars”, such as the Moon, can bestow charm and attractiveness, while some can make the parents prosperous.

 

“One thing that I find really repulsive is that lots of parents want their child to be born on a date that will help their business, even if the baby is not ready for delivery,” Arunwich said. “We need to put the health of the baby first.” 

 

Doctors, meanwhile, are expressing concern that auspicious dates chosen by fortune-tellers are often too early for the baby.

 

Onjira, who has Chinese ancestors, had her twins delivered by C-section at Bangkok’s Bumrungrad Hospital after a Chinese fortune-teller picked several auspicious dates for her. One date fell in week 37, three weeks before a woman can give birth naturally.

 

“Many doctors give in to patients and schedule the delivery as early as week 37,” confirmed Assoc Professor Dr Nopadol Sorapala, an obstetrician at Bumrungrad Hospital. He said natural childbirth usually occurs at week 40, but international guidelines set elective delivery at week 38 onwards. “The closer to week 40, the better. Don’t sacrifice your baby’s health just to meet the lucky date,” he warned. 

 

A study published in the New England Report in 2009 looked at elective C-sections among mothers with a C-section history, and concluded surgery should be scheduled at week 39 at the earliest. The study found that babies born by C-section at week 37 are twice as likely to have breathing problems, low blood sugar and infection compared to those born in full term. Premature babies are also more likely to be admitted to the intensive care unit. 

 

But factors that make caesarean sections so popular in Thailand are not limited to the parent or the fortune-teller. Doctors and hospitals also play a part. According to Nopadol, most doctors prefer caesarean surgery to natural delivery because “it is faster, more convenient, less tiring, and more profitable”. In natural delivery, doctors may have to stay overnight before the baby is delivered, but a C-section can be completed in 45 minutes, he said. 

 

Pisake said that since seven out 10 babies are delivered by C-section, private hospitals can charge almost twice as much for caesareans instead of natural delivery. At Bumrungrad Hospital, one of the top private hospitals in Bangkok, parents pay as much as Bt136,000 for a C-section compared to Bt89,000 for natural delivery. 

 

“At least half of the C-sections, or about 100,000 births, take place without medical reasons,” Pisake said. “This is a big waste of resources, because the surgery doesn’t improve the baby’s health, but may in fact threaten it.” 

 

According to Pisake, unnecessary C-section deliveries can also complicate future pregnancies and extend the mother’s recovery period. 

 

Instead, he said, parents and doctors should only go ahead with a C-section surgery when a medical necessity arises, such as when the baby is wrongly positioned or the mother is bleeding from a low-lying placenta. Other necessary interventions could include obstructed labour or insufficient oxygen reaching the baby. Pisake said some studies suggest that babies delivered naturally have better immunity and are less likely to develop allergies later in life, because they receive good microbes that inhabit the mother’s birth canal, which inoculate the baby as it passes through. 

 

If done properly, he said, a natural delivery is safer for both the baby and the mother. 

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30355415

 

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-09-29

[BritManToo]

Why are they pricing delivery packages at state hospitals, they're free for Thai citizens.

Only one doctor on duty at night in a State hospital, the babies are delivered by a midwife.

 

Funny thing, if you go to a state hospital, you'll nearly always have a natural delivery, if you go private, they'll push you into a C-section.

Edited September 29, 2018 by BritManToo

[Fex Bluse]

Interesting topic but the title may not encourage people to click. I had no idea what it was about until clicking in and in fact I thought it might be one of those topics we can't comment on because of the word "auspicious" 

Edited September 29, 2018 by Fex Bluse

[worgeordie]

I think it might be more about the birth can be

carried out at a specific time, AND it's more expensive,

so you can bet Doctors and Hospitals are reccomending

C section births.

regards worgeordie

[edwinchester]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Why are they pricing delivery packages at state hospitals, they're free for Thai citizens.

Only one doctor on duty at night in a State hospital, the babies are delivered by a midwife.

 

Funny thing, if you go to a state hospital, you'll nearly always have a natural delivery, if you go private, they'll push you into a C-section.

My experience is very different to that.

My wife gave birth to our daughter at a state hospital last year.

It is certainly not free as there lots of small fees that managed to be tacked on and that was true for all the other Thai ladies on the same ward.

Almost all the births seemed to be by caesarian too.

[kannot]

1 hour ago, rooster59 said:

Also, Pisake said, going under the knife allows parents to manage their time and choose a lucky date of birth.

lazy and greedy................

[overherebc]

I wonder, if they knew where the cesarean section originated, ie why it's called that and the result of the original if they would be so keen.

[Neeranam]

One of my kids was born at bamrungrad, the price was 39,000 instead of 29,000. The cesarean was because the doctors there are so bloody important,  they don't want to be inconvenienced. Actually, we were totally ripped off,  as the baby needed the ICU for two days, even though there was nothing wrong with her,  causing the bill to inflate. They are run by a business. The next one was born at a government hospital for free in a room with 5 other women; what a joyful experience.

If you want to disrupt the private doctors' tee time, demand a cesarean delivery.

[Neeranam]

17 minutes ago, edwinchester said:

My experience is very different to that.

My wife gave birth to our daughter at a state hospital last year.

It is certainly not free as there lots of small fees that managed to be tacked on and that was true for all the other Thai ladies on the same ward.

Almost all the births seemed to be by caesarian too.

I agree that state hospitals do cesarean mostly, but my wife was totally free.

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

One of my kids was born at bamrungrad, the price was 39,000 instead of 29,000. The cesarean was because the doctors there are so bloody important,  they don't want to be inconvenienced. Actually, we were totally ripped off,  as the baby needed the ICU for two days, even though there was nothing wrong with her,  causing the bill to inflate. They are run by a business. The next one was born at a government hospital for free in a room with 5 other women; what a joyful experience.

If you want to disrupt the private doctors' tee time, demand a cesarean delivery.

 

6 years back, had one in a state hospital, I paid 250bht for my blood tests (as a foreigner), and 2,000bht for 2 nights in a private room. Delivery was in the maternity ward (no men allowed) by midwife with about 20 other women, then wheeled to the private room.

My neighbour just gave birth in the same hospital, cost around 30,000bht because she didn't bother to transfer her house book (How can someone be this stupid?).

[Bluespunk]

 

2 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Many people are naturally born on fortunate dates and became millionaires. But natural birth is like a game of chance – if the baby is born on a bad date, they may encounter setbacks in life,” he said. 

 

Picking an auspicious date for a birth?

 

There is no level of stupidity that superstition cannot make worse. 

[Neeranam]

24 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

 

 

Picking an auspicious date for a birth?

 

There is no level of stupidity that superstition cannot make worse. 

Someone's self esteem is low today ???? self righteous criticism of billions of people! 

And by the way, numerology and astrology are not superstitions.

[edwinchester]

50 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I agree that state hospitals do cesarean mostly, but my wife was totally free.

How long ago did your wife give birth?

My wife gave birth last year in a state hospital and was even charged for the sticking plaster on her caesarian scar.

 

I should add that the overall experience was first class and I was very happy with how my wife and daughter were treated.

Edited September 29, 2018 by edwinchester

[Bluespunk]

19 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Someone's self esteem is low today ???? self righteous criticism of billions of people! 

And by the way, numerology and astrology are not superstitions.

My self esteem is fine. 

 

Nothing self righteous about my criticism on basing key life decisions on star positions and numbers. 

 

Decisions on c sections should be made on the basis of patient health not convenience or some superstitious nonsense. 

Edited September 29, 2018 by Bluespunk

[Neeranam]

8 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Decisions on c sections should be made on the basis of patient health not convenience or some superstitious nonsense. 

I agree but as I said before numerology and or astrology are not nonsense,  this is just your opinion.

Rather arrogant criticizing others'beliefs.

[Neeranam]

25 minutes ago, edwinchester said:

How long ago did your wife give birth?

My wife gave birth last year in a state hospital and was even charged for the sticking plaster on her caesarian scar.

 

I should add that the overall experience was first class and I was very happy with how my wife and daughter were treated.

That one was 12 years ago, perhaps things have changed.

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

I agree but as I said before numerology and or astrology are not nonsense,  this is just your opinion.

Rather arrogant criticizing others'beliefs.

 

Again, nothing to do with arrogance, self esteem, self righteousness or any other insult you care to use.

 

I would ignore it usually, but to promote c sections on the basis of astrology or lucky numbers is on such a level of stupidity, it infuriates me. 

 

“I don't believe in astrology. The only stars I can blame for my failures are those that walk about the stage.”

Noel Coward

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

 

Again, nothing to do with arrogance, self esteem, self righteousness or any other insult you care to use.

 

I would ignore it usually, but to promote c sections on the basis of astrology or lucky numbers is on such a level of stupidity, it infuriates me. 

 

“I don't believe in astrology. The only stars I can blame for my failures are those that walk about the stage.”

Noel Coward

Do you know better than say HH the Dalai Lama, or Lord Buddha, fair enough, not arrogant at all.????

[Bluespunk]

10 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Do you know better than say HH the Dalai Lama, or Lord Buddha, fair enough, not arrogant at all.????

 

Unlikely I’ll ever see either for two very different reasons. 

 

But if I ever do see the former then I’ll say nothing unless he starts justifying acts of stupidity on the basis of superstition. 

 

“Superstition is to religion what astrology is to astronomy the mad daughter of a wise mother. These daughters have too long dominated the earth.”

 

Voltaire

Edited September 29, 2018 by Bluespunk

[Oziex1]

12 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I agree but as I said before numerology and or astrology are not nonsense,  this is just your opinion.

Rather arrogant criticizing others'beliefs.

Call me arrogant, whatever.  The biggest barrier to advancement of our race is superstition and this includes numerology, astrology and theology.

[Vacuum]

3 hours ago, rooster59 said:

as most women -– including those working in healthcare – believe a C-section is safer and better than natural delivery.

 

Still humans have 'delivered' babies the natural way for millions of years....

[Neeranam]

9 minutes ago, Oziex1 said:

Call me arrogant, whatever.  The biggest barrier to advancement of our race is superstition and this includes numerology, astrology and theology.

Maybe you are not a native English speaker. The 3 things you mention are not superstitions.

[Jeremy50]

It would be more 'auspicious' not to bring another human child into such a crowded world. First touch of sunlight , let the wheel of stupidity begin.

[mauGR1]

48 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

 

Still humans have 'delivered' babies the natural way for millions of years....

Well, i think it's a fact that in the old times of natural deliveries deaths of the mother were not uncommon.

That said, c-sections seems to be abused these days, i have a couple of ideas, but then i'm no doctor.

[Ossy]

I should have known better than to open this thread, just before my lunch. Jeez . . . I need a beer, after that.

[Neeranam]

32 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

They left out the price for a hurried tattoo over the C-section scar and stretch marks so she can continue to 'work cashier' and the price of a bus ticket North so the new sprog can be left with the grandparent allowing the ya-ba and alcohol fueled 'career' in Krung Thep to continue unabated. 

Thanks for letting us know the social circles that priests are in ????

[RichardColeman]

I'm sure there was a report somewhere that said that all child birth might some day be done by cesaerian, since those unable to give birth naturally - and would have died in childbirth - now pass on those genes to the next genertion

[300sd]

12 hours ago, rooster59 said:

One thing that I find really repulsive is that lots of parents want their child to be born on a date that will help their business, even if the baby is not ready for delivery,”

Yes that is very repulsive along with most of this article. 

I think I've been here long enough to not be surprised, but to think people would do this for a good date! It's worse then repulsive.

[Foexie]

16 hours ago, rooster59 said:

The reason for this is that mothers choose to go under the knife due to fear of labour pains

 

Like a c section doesn't hurt at all.

 

My best friend's wife did labour in both ways. Before she planned to only have a c-section. When her second needed to be born she did need to have one because of complications.

 

Later i asked her if she prefered the normal way or the operation. She told me if she could choose now she would never ever take a c-section again. 

The first weeks she could hardly get up from the bed or sofa, couldn't proparly take care her oldest ( who was 2,5y at the time)because she couldn't and wasn't allowed to pick him up, etc.

 

Lucky here the doctors only do this when there is a problem. I can't understand why so many Thai ladies prefer to have a c-section because every operation is already a big extra risk.

[manarak]

13 hours ago, Neeranam said:

And by the way, numerology and astrology are not superstitions.

 

ROFLMAO

 

from Merriam-Webster:

Quote

Definition of superstition

1a : a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation

 

Edited September 29, 2018 by manarak