A naked and shameful power grab [Editorial]

[robblok]

1 minute ago, tomta said:

 

 

Yes, a bit of soul-searching on the part of those who supported the coup would be   a good thing. I have a friend who joined the whistle-blowers and jumped up and down in support of Suthep. She now recognizes that her idealistic hopes (and she was an idealist) have not been fulfilled. But any attempt to engage her on this meets the response "I'm bored with politics". Like The Nation, she will not take responsibility for her actions.

Why take responsibility she was deceived.. i was deceived too.  Maybe if the corruption was not so blatant at the PTP and others people would not have risen.. ever thought about looking at causes of why people came to protest.. rice program.. amnesty.. its all nice to blame the protesters while acting like the government at the time did not give them reason to protest. 30 billion of fake G2G deals is not peanuts.

[NaamGin]

3 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Free healthcare and education, police and fire services, etc, are forms of socialism. Things we think of as completely normal and right. 

 

No one is advocating for doctors to be paid the same as toilet cleaners.

 

 

 

What do you think the social equality movement is all about? 

 

[rkidlad]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

Nothing much and that is part of the problem, he did however add some good corruption laws and made sure that on corruption charges the statute of limitation does not apply anymore. 

 

Sad thing is that these new laws will be applied selectively. 

 

But your right Thai Style isnt a democracy .. i saw it when YL was in power and the rice program proved it. The newspapers, the opposition all were talking about fake G2G deals.. it was all dismissed and people were threatened (civil servants who came out with the news) and a small investigation was done for show. The result nothing found.. while only AFTER they kicked YL out were they able to punish the people responsible for fake G2G deals.. That is not how a democracy should work. So yea.. democracy in Thailand has never really worked those in power.. junta (look at how they handled the watch scandal.. denying fake investigations just like what YL did with the rice program) will always ignore those in the opposition and use their power to shield their wrongdoings from coming out.

 

I am quite sure that is not how a democracy should work (an no the junta in power is NOT a democracy).

Selectively, indeed. You can't be corrupt!........But you can. The laws are only as good as the people enforcing them. 

 

 

[rkidlad]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

Nothing much and that is part of the problem, he did however add some good corruption laws and made sure that on corruption charges the statute of limitation does not apply anymore. 

 

Sad thing is that these new laws will be applied selectively. 

 

But your right Thai Style isnt a democracy .. i saw it when YL was in power and the rice program proved it. The newspapers, the opposition all were talking about fake G2G deals.. it was all dismissed and people were threatened (civil servants who came out with the news) and a small investigation was done for show. The result nothing found.. while only AFTER they kicked YL out were they able to punish the people responsible for fake G2G deals.. That is not how a democracy should work. So yea.. democracy in Thailand has never really worked those in power.. junta (look at how they handled the watch scandal.. denying fake investigations just like what YL did with the rice program) will always ignore those in the opposition and use their power to shield their wrongdoings from coming out.

 

I am quite sure that is not how a democracy should work (an no the junta in power is NOT a democracy).

Selectively, indeed. You can't be corrupt!........But you can. The laws are only as good as the people enforcing them. 

 

 

[rkidlad]

4 minutes ago, NaamGin said:

 

What do you think the social equality movement is all about? 

 

Social equality. It's written in the name. 

[Oziex1]

39 minutes ago, NaamGin said:

 

Ah, and the call for "social equality" through socialism / marxism raises it's nasty head again. Do you folks ever study history?

It's not about that it's about a little less greed and a little more opportunity for those who miss out while the corrupt steal the loot.

 

And to state what I really think of those who support the creedy ways is <deleted> YOU

[canuckamuck]

9 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Free healthcare and education, police and fire services, etc, are forms of socialism. Things we think of as completely normal and right. 

 

No one is advocating for doctors to be paid the same as toilet cleaners.

 

 

Each country can decide which services it will provide from the taxes it receives from the people. This can be regulated fairly in a democratic system. The danger of socialism comes when they take the larger step and decide your property, income, housing, employment, and puts controls on industry like price fixing and production targets. 

[baboon]

18 minutes ago, NaamGin said:

 

First, I am not alt-right, which is the favorite slur used against anyone that actually has an argument against the lunatic left. I am a member of the largest voting block in the US today, Independents. You know, people that actually think instead of relying on some talking head to tell them what to think. 

 

Thanks for letting me know that the UK is a socialist country. You learn something new every day!!!

The UK is pretty far from socialist as you are well aware.

However I shall resist the temptation to ask you what the weather is like in Nizhny-novogrod at this time of year and instead cordially invite you to continue this discussion elsewhere, before the moderators make Thaivisa great again and suspend us...

Edited October 3, 2018 by baboon

[canuckamuck]

15 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

How many Thais do you think buy The Nation, an English language newspaper ? 

97

 

[robblok]

9 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Selectively, indeed. You can't be corrupt!........But you can. The laws are only as good as the people enforcing them. 

 

 

Yep.. that is a huge problem here.

[holy cow cm]

19 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

How many Thais do you think buy The Nation, an English language newspaper ? 

Most Thai get their news on Line feed or put into FB. They don't get actual newspapers for the most part. 

[Ossy]

2 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

A brave article. It would be good to have it in Thai for the Thai language news.

It might be better if Thais learned to speak English, the most inter-nationally used language on the planet. The country's so-called 'schools' include daily English lessons on the curriculum and what's the result? . . . a non-English-speaking nation that is vain enough to believe its language will suffice. Yes, but suffice is all it will do . . . but mai pen rai . . . no problem.

[Lupatria]

Let's take off our hats in a minute of silence and show empathy to another journalist about to lose his job soon.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Lupatria

[Eric Loh]

22 minutes ago, robblok said:

Why take responsibility she was deceived.. i was deceived too.  Maybe if the corruption was not so blatant at the PTP and others people would not have risen.. ever thought about looking at causes of why people came to protest.. rice program.. amnesty.. its all nice to blame the protesters while acting like the government at the time did not give them reason to protest. 30 billion of fake G2G deals is not peanuts.

 

I am all for protesting against corruption in the streets as well as in Parliament. That is democracy in motion. Their voices will be reflected in their votes. No need for coups to mask their own corruptions. 

[tomta]

26 minutes ago, robblok said:

Why take responsibility she was deceived.. i was deceived too.  Maybe if the corruption was not so blatant at the PTP and others people would not have risen.. ever thought about looking at causes of why people came to protest.. rice program.. amnesty.. its all nice to blame the protesters while acting like the government at the time did not give them reason to protest. 30 billion of fake G2G deals is not peanuts.

 

 

Like you, Robblok, she should address and remedy her capacity for gullibility and naivete in believing that hucksters like Suthep have the magic wand that will solve Thailand's problems . She should address her naive belief that one side of politics are devils and the others are all angels. Addressing problems like corruption is hard continuous work just as democracy is. There is no absolute and permanent cure but democracy and free speech are fundamental to the solution. You both deceived yourselves.

[holy cow cm]

Seizing and locking up money under budgets for programs for long term is normal practice to keep the ball in the instigators court. Some can be unlocked, some can't, but I would think the junta regime no matter what will keep the power grab and will not allow any tinkering with their 20yr plan. Meaning, they will just eliminate the political party and PM if they go one hair against the sabotaging their plan. 

[tomta]

By the way, Robblok, the protests were fine and good. There was a lot to protest about. There is even more to protest about today but strangely few protesters. And they got rid of the amnesty bill via the democratic process of protest. Democracy worked.

 

But where the protests went too far was in calling for the abolition of the democratic process. "Reforms before elections" by a self-appointed council of the good people. That's what we got.

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, tomta said:

 

 

Like you, Robblok, she should address and remedy her capacity for gullibility and naivete in believing that hucksters like Suthep have the magic wand that will solve Thailand's problems . She should address her naive belief that one side of politics are devils and the others are all angels. Addressing problems like corruption is hard continuous work just as democracy is. There is no absolute and permanent cure but democracy and free speech are fundamental to the solution. You both deceived yourselves.

No, its not us.. it was caused by the blatant corruption of the PTP and their arrogant handling of the issues i posted. Had they been reasonable then the protests had not been there. The PTP is as guilty as those who believed in a better future where corruption was taken down. There is not one side guilty both are guilty the PTP because of their blatant corruption the other side for wanting to believe in a better way. 

[smutcakes]

Just now, robblok said:

No, its not us.. it was caused by the blatant corruption of the PTP and their arrogant handling of the issues i posted. Had they been reasonable then the protests had not been there. The PTP is as guilty as those who believed in a better future where corruption was taken down. There is not one side guilty both are guilty the PTP because of their blatant corruption the other side for wanting to believe in a better way. 

 

If the people supporting the PDRC actually believed in no corruption they would be out protesting now, but they are not and wont, because they are not anti corruption.

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, tomta said:

By the way, Robblok, the protests were fine and good. There was a lot to protest about. There is even more to protest about today but strangely few protesters. And they got rid of the amnesty bill via the democratic process of protest. Democracy worked.

 

But where the protests went too far was in calling for the abolition of the democratic process. "Reforms before elections" by a self-appointed council of the good people. That's what we got.

You and I really differ about democracy.

 

Democracy did not work.. in a working democracy YL would have been stopped long ago. There would not have been need for street protests. Independent organisations would have had her scheme investigated and that was it. This did not happen as she had too much power. 

Its not the job of the people to push people out who are corrupt.. the law should do so. Why else are there laws. 

 

Anyway I agree it went too far but it would never have come to this (or maybe it would but a watered down less supported versions of this) if YL had been dealt with before. 

 

That is the problem here those in power think they can do everything. Just remember Prayut his watches.. how blatant its lies were.. how it rattled people..same applied to the fake G2G deals. Once in power they think that nothing can stop them.. sad thing is that its true because of the slow workings here. (and yes junta has far more power as YL). 

 

I really hate it when those arrogant people in power think we are all stupid when its so obvious. Then those people are protected and almost nothing happens.. that makes people mad. 

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

 

If the people supporting the PDRC actually believed in no corruption they would be out protesting now, but they are not and wont, because they are not anti corruption.

Nobody is out protesting.. if the reds were pro democracy they would be out protesting too.

 

Guess what they are not either.. and its not because they are not pro democracy (even though their leader its goal is not democracy by its own admission). 

 

Reason people don't protest is simple.. the army and the fact that people have no good alternatives. 

 

So using no protests as an argument does not work.. sorry.;

[NaamGin]

50 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Social equality. It's written in the name. 

 

That's right, it is NOT about socialism. 

[impulse]

22 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

 

If the people supporting the PDRC actually believed in no corruption they would be out protesting now, but they are not and wont, because they are not anti corruption.

 

I believe in world peace, an end to hunger and a more fair distribution of wealth.

 

But you won't see me out protesting for any of that, because it would be a waste of my time.  And put me at risk of negative consequences.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2018 by impulse

[NaamGin]

50 minutes ago, Oziex1 said:

It's not about that it's about a little less greed and a little more opportunity for those who miss out while the corrupt steal the loot.

 

And to state what I really think of those who support the creedy ways is <deleted> YOU

 

Great argument, I have to remember that one.

 

Here is a little test smart guy, name ONE (1) socialist society in the history of mankind that has been a success. 

I'll give you the answer so you don't hurt your head, there are ZERO, NUCNA, NONE, NADA. 

 

BTW, <deleted> you too!!!

[Cadbury]

 

5 hours ago, webfact said:

the latest move towards that goal of quasi-dictatorship

If this comes to pass then Thailand is doomed and will go into a state of decay. The people of Thailand don't have much to look forward to with a continuation of it's existing incompetent, irresponsible free-spending leaders.

People such as the elite, corrupt high ranking officials and assorted lowlife "friends" of the quasi-dictatorship will of course grow even richer and more powerful.

The incumbents are building a future revolution without realising it. In the meantime they will continue to live high on the hog. 

[NaamGin]

54 minutes ago, baboon said:

The UK is pretty far from socialist as you are well aware.

However I shall resist the temptation to ask you what the weather is like in Nizhny-novogrod at this time of year and instead cordially invite you to continue this discussion elsewhere, before the moderators make Thaivisa great again and suspend us...

 

As long as the conversation does not cross the lines, then Scott will let it proceed.

 

I find it funny that you accuse me of being Russian when Russia itself is no longer a communist country.  Is that the best you have, other than wanting to kick my butt because you don't have an argument? 

 

Let's try this, if you dare. Can you define "social justice" and what that would look like to you? 

 

[impulse]

3 minutes ago, NaamGin said:

Great argument, I have to remember that one.

 

Here is a little test smart guy, name ONE (1) socialist society in the history of mankind that has been a success. 

I'll give you the answer so you don't hurt your head, there are ZERO, NUCNA, NONE, NADA. 

 

That may be so (couldn't be bothered to look it up), though some Scandinavian countries may protest.

 

But socialist aspects like infrastructure investment, state paid health care, and safety/environmental rules are the only things keeping some "fiercely capitalist" countries on the rails.  While benefiting the 1% at the public expense.

 

[NaamGin]

1 hour ago, rkidlad said:

Democracy 'Thai style' isn't democracy. 

 

The man in power has had over 4 years of absolute power to enable Thailand to become a democracy. To lay the foundations. Checks and balances, etc. What's he done? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thailand IS NOT a democracy. Do you not know that? 

 

Thailand is a Constitutional Monarchy. 

 

When the politicians run the country into the ground, the Royal Family sends in the military to take control and to tell the children to behave. Nothing new here and it's been going on since 1932. 

 

 

 

[rkidlad]

2 minutes ago, NaamGin said:

 

Thailand IS NOT a democracy. Do you not know that? 

 

Thailand is a Constitutional Monarchy. 

 

When the politicians run the country into the ground, the Royal Family sends in the military to take control and to tell the children to behave. Nothing new here and it's been going on since 1932. 

 

 

 

Thanks for that. I genuinely thought Thailand was a democracy and Prayut was Cleisthenes reincarnated. 

[NaamGin]

3 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

That may be so (couldn't be bothered to look it up), though some Scandinavian countries may protest.

 

But socialist aspects like infrastructure investment, state paid health care, and safety/environmental rules are the only things keeping some "fiercely capitalist" countries on the rails.  While benefiting the 1% at the public expense.

 

 

No one is arguing that certain social services should be provided by the government; fire, police, education, in some cases health care (disastrously), protection of national sovereignty (except in the EU), etc.

 

The true socialists want government take over of business, equal pay for all regardless of skills and nationalization of industry. This is where socialism falls apart and greed is a human nature that cannot be countered by the best hopes and wishes of people wanting equality for all. It is an admirable goal, unfortunately humans are not capable of pulling it off.