BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[stevenl]

44 minutes ago, PAWNEESE said:

Nobody has any idea what the other Embassy's are doing yet. No Embassy can or will guarantee what you tell them. This enquiry as such, has been going on a while and this I suspect, is the start of it. The UK is simply the first to say that they just cannot comply with what Thailand is asking for in the way of guarantees of financial information.
Lets see what transpires over the next month or so. I suspect the UK won't be the one and only that say they cannot comply. I posted a link above which may help to understand where they are with it.

 

I think we all know they cannot comply ... but Brit Embassy have taken an action that means big problems for its own citizens. THEY could easily keep doing what they have been doing for decades. Nothing more. Nothing less.  Thailand not ordering them to stop providing letters on existing basis are they ?

 

Then tell Thailand to tell Brits their income letters not acceptable.  But the embassy is not fighting our corner .. its saying ok WE

will screw up our citizens. Not saying you can decline the letters if you wish.

 

It not effect me. Got money but income method to keep visa essential for people with ties here and none in UK. Family etc. Let Thailand uproot them not Britain take action to force it.

"No Embassy can or will guarantee what you tell them. "

Dutch embassy requires proof before they sign the income statement. They also require the amount to be net, so after taxes, even though Thailand does not require this, but that is a different problem.

[sandyf]

53 minutes ago, richiejom said:

Without the letter I have a feeling it will make things more difficult...no harm in making our voice heard early on

No harm, other than the fact immigration may well take a dim view and make things that little bit more difficult.

 

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, sandyf said:

No harm, other than the fact immigration may well take a dim view and make things that little bit more difficult.

 

Embassy income letters are required for all income based applications. How difficult is that if you have no such letter?

[sandyf]

45 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Yes, I have the same issue as you, in that I rarely use or update my bank books. And so in talking with my bank staff, I learned that they each have a set amount of transactions, up to 20 or so, that their their update machines will print out every transaction. But if the number of unprinted transactions since the last printed update is larger than the bank's limit, then then the update machine merely gives you a one line status as of that day, and not any of the many transactions that may have preceeded it. To me it's just stupid, but that's the way the Thai bank systems work.

 

[edited, the more I recalled, I think CIMB lately told me their system at least was based on number of unprinted transactions, not a period of time].

I am not interested in what is in the bank book and the summary update suits me fine. I use online banking so I can get any transaction print I want.

At the moment the summary print does not bother immigration, they just want a copy of the pages, something I fail to understand if it is just a few summary lines. The potential problem is in the light of the BE action will they take a bit more notice of what is in a bank book.

 

Thai immigration are not interested in online prints but the UK visa section are not bothered in the slightest.

Edited October 10, 2018 by sandyf

[Expattaff1308]

Have written again to the Embassy quoting their statement to the Nation & Thaivisa

I have continued to follow with interest what if anything you are doing to assist the British Nationals who still require to stay in Thailand on Income.

I note that you have issued a statement to the Nation...

 

Regarding the way forward the British Embassy Bangkok told Thaivisa.com

 "British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand for a retirement visa. For a marriage visa, the amounts are at least 400,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 40,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand. A bank statement should be used as the supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa. If the British National doesn’t already have a bank account, they should open one and follow the steps above".

 

This of course would be fine IF the Thai Immigration Dept accepted Bank Books or Bank Statements as proof of income but to date they still insist the only way to qualify on income is an Embassy Letter. It does seem you are saying one thing they are saying another.

Can you guarantee that you have successfully negotiated this solution with the Thai Authorities and that an announcement will be forthcoming from the Thai authorities enabling us to use Thai Bank Books / Statements as proof of income over the year that meets the 400 / 800k+ and equates to the monthly income required 40/65k (as stated by you)

 

 

•  

[sandyf]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Embassy income letters are required for all income based applications.

You are quite entitled to believe that statement will still stand this time next year.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You are quite entitled to believe that statement will still stand this time next year.

Not making any predictions. There have been no such announcements from Thai immigration of any planned policy change on that matter. If and when that happens, then the very long standing will have changed. But not now. The British embassy does not make Thai immigration policy.

 

To add based on what we know NOW (which is all we can know) the most sensible thing for Brits to do is to plan on using an 800K baht application unless they can get a new income letter in time for their next application (they're good for six months). 

 

I find the suggestion on the British embassy website to do deposits very irresponsible before there is any announcement of change on the requirement for income letters.

 

Note they did NOT say there was such a change. I say, for now, protect yourself and IGNORE such advice.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Jingthing

[Caine]

On 10/9/2018 at 4:51 AM, giddyup said:

Dodgy bank account? You really are talking rubbish. Been here 9 years with a Thai bank account, never had a problem, so what's "dodgy" about it? Who are these 'silly old sods" you are talking about?

Ever tried transferring money back to your own country that’s what’s  dodgy about them. And I’ve been out here a lot longer than 9 yrs. The silly old sods are the ones who have burnt their bridges you are probably one of them.

[Mark1066]

20 minutes ago, Caine said:

Ever tried transferring money back to your own country that’s what’s  dodgy about them. And I’ve been out here a lot longer than 9 yrs. The silly old sods are the ones who have burnt their bridges you are probably one of them.

I've done it. It's no problem at all. I don't think you should be rude about other people just because you are incapable of dealing with a little paperwork.

[Golden Brown]

1 hour ago, richiejom said:

We got 11 signatures so far in an hour... we need 10,000 to get a response from the government but I think it still has an affect if enough people sign. Worth a try anyway

I am sure you will find it is 100,000 signatures before the Gov will give a response!!!

[kinyara]

6 minutes ago, Golden Brown said:

I am sure you will find it is 100,000 signatures before the Gov will give a response!!!

Congrats you are the 1,000 post on this thread :))

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So now there's  a new thread where the British Embassy supposedly is telling ThaiVisa that the U.S. Embassy also is planning to cease issuing income letters for Immigration. But AFAIK, nothing direct from the USE at this point.

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1061503-british-embassy-statement-on-income-letters-officials-knew-about-problems-in-may-and-say-that-us-nationals-will-also-be-affected/

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, Mark1066 said:

Maybe but if you make a straightforward SWIFT transfer from the UK to Thailand and the money is converted into THB by the UK bank, you will get a terrible rate.

Never use SWIFT transfer. Takes 3 to 5 days and costs me 500 baht.

[Golden Brown]

6 minutes ago, richiejom said:

no its 10,000 for a response and 100,000 for a debate in parliament... you should have read everything when you did you quick search on Google:

 

Apologies.   Didn't do a google search.   Just a response from signing other HM Gov petitions.

[stewartthailand]

Visited Jomtien Immigration this morning to query issue as my annual extension is due in April

IO suggested that I obtain BE confirmation letter in November (before deadline) then submit as normal in March 2019.

The alternative is to pay in 65,000 baht per month into my Thai bank account. I will of course be free to take this money out and as I do not spend 65,000 pm I can then feed the unused balance back in again.

[nausea]

I suspect this apparently new requirement was, maybe, aimed at those embassies supplying income letters without supporting evidence, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Brits reaction (or overreaction) has caught the Thais offguard. Having said that I've just read their was a meeting in May at embassy level regarding the implications of requiring embassies to "verify" income, as opposed to merely confirm having "had sight" of documents. No doubt the mud will clear by the time anyone has to go with the new system. Personally, I think the current system, as operated by the Brits anyway, acts as a good filter, even if it ain't perfect, and it certainly smooths the way at Immigration.

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by nausea
More info.

[Mark1066]

6 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Never use SWIFT transfer. Takes 3 to 5 days and costs me 500 baht.

I didn't have any viable alternatives as I wasn't sending money to myself, somebody else was sending it to me. It only takes 1-2 days in my experience though, certainly not 3-5.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Mark1066

[giddyup]

36 minutes ago, Caine said:

Ever tried transferring money back to your own country that’s what’s  dodgy about them. And I’ve been out here a lot longer than 9 yrs. The silly old sods are the ones who have burnt their bridges you are probably one of them.

I  have transferred money back without a problem, as have many others, and I could go back home anytime I choose, still have 90% of my monetary assets in an Aussie bank. So wrong on both counts.

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

No Embassy can or will guarantee what you tell them. This enquiry as such, has been going on a while and this I suspect, is the start of it. The UK is simply the first to say that they just cannot comply with what Thailand is asking for in the way of guarantees of financial information.

I have stated this before, but perhaps it has been buried in the myriad of other posts.......

 

As regards pension payments here, the British Embassy merely states that it has been provided with a statement from the DWP or IPC (pensions people in the UK) and it verifies that it has seen that statement and that the person concerned is receiving the amount stated.

 

That surely does not put them under any potential liability whatsoever because they have been provided with a letter from a UK government department.

 

So I really can't see what they are on about, but then again perhaps I'm missing something?

[Mark1066]

5 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I have stated this before, but perhaps it has been buried in the myriad of other posts.......

 

As regards pension payments here, the British Embassy merely states that it has been provided with a statement from the DWP or IPC (pensions people in the UK) and it verifies that it has seen that statement and that the person concerned is receiving the amount stated.

 

That surely does not put them under any potential liability whatsoever because they have been provided with a letter from a UK government department.

 

So I really can't see what they are on about, but then again perhaps I'm missing something?

Perhaps the Thai authorities have asked them to take more responsibility when issuing income statements and, as a result, they have decided to stop issuing them at all. I'm sure they didn't arbitrarily decide to make life difficult for all British expats for no reason. I would imagine a change in regulations is in the offing or they were asked to verify information that it wasn't practical for them to do so. All that is just conjecture on my part of course, but I would be surprised if there was not an underlying reason that prompted them to take this action. I'd also be extremely surprised if it meant that all British expats in Thailand no longer had the option to extend their stays by showing adequate income.

[Orac]

Visited Jomtien Immigration this morning to query issue as my annual extension is due in April
IO suggested that I obtain BE confirmation letter in November (before deadline) then submit as normal in March 2019.
The alternative is to pay in 65,000 baht per month into my Thai bank account. I will of course be free to take this money out and as I do not spend 65,000 pm I can then feed the unused balance back in again.

Can you clarify your post for me - did Jomtien Immigration specifically confirm that just showing 65k into Thai bank account monthly without embassy letter would be accepted.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[xylophone]

36 minutes ago, Mark1066 said:

Perhaps the Thai authorities have asked them to take more responsibility when issuing income statements

Don't know what more responsibility they can take...……...after all they have in their possession a statement from the UK Pension Service giving all my details including ref numbers and amounts and all they are saying in their letter is that they have seen/received it!

 

I think it maybe because some expats want them to verify OTHER statements outlining an income, and these could be from "anyone" if you get my drift.

[Peterw42]

54 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I have stated this before, but perhaps it has been buried in the myriad of other posts.......

 

As regards pension payments here, the British Embassy merely states that it has been provided with a statement from the DWP or IPC (pensions people in the UK) and it verifies that it has seen that statement and that the person concerned is receiving the amount stated.

 

That surely does not put them under any potential liability whatsoever because they have been provided with a letter from a UK government department.

 

So I really can't see what they are on about, but then again perhaps I'm missing something?

BE is writing and signing the letter. Wouldn't that be liability for the contents of the letter.

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, stewartthailand said:

Visited Jomtien Immigration this morning to query issue as my annual extension is due in April

IO suggested that I obtain BE confirmation letter in November (before deadline) then submit as normal in March 2019.

The alternative is to pay in 65,000 baht per month into my Thai bank account. I will of course be free to take this money out and as I do not spend 65,000 pm I can then feed the unused balance back in again.

Is that confirmation from jomtien immigration that 65k into Thai account, bank statements will be acceptable ?

You could put 1 million baht into your account each month, if they dont accept bank statements its not an alternative, is it ?

Edited October 10, 2018 by Peterw42

[Runamile]

Way back in this thread someone mentioned that the British Embassy may have wind of the need to involve a Thai Bank Account in the income route. Maybe in the future, but as of now, no change. The British Embassy have now clarified in today's documentation why they mentioned the Thai Bank account (other than for the lump sum route that was always the case). It's because Thai immigration say that they have the capacity to simply follow the bank statements. Essentially it looks like Brits are disadvantaged against others for the convenience of the British and Thai authorities. Failing the Embassy outsourcing to competent businesses, as I've mentioned elsewhere, why not a global income statement drawn up and attested by a qualified Thai accountant, with us paying.  I'm angry because nobody seems to be genuinely thinking this through at either the British or Thai end.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Runamile

[White Tiger]

On 10/8/2018 at 2:50 PM, CharlieH said:

Seems to me that its just hand the same statements over that you gave the Embassy to produce the letter and saves you £50 !

 

Be interesting to see how many now switch to "thai wife" for lower figure ?

I tried this about 5 or 6 years ago at Khon Kaen immigration and they told me my bank statements were unacceptable. They insisted on the Embassy proof of income letter. I was frustrated by this as I felt my bank statements gave them all the info they needed.  I got angry with them, embarrassed myself by losing my temper and calling them all names and walking out. I really lost it. Never been back to KK imigration since - felt sure there wouldn't be any point, although they may have forgotten me by now.

 

I can't remember whether I went back to the UK or Savannahket to get a new visa (I'm not getting my passport out now to check).  But I did get a new one, rather than an extension from immigration. Kept renewing my annual visa to avoid crossing swords with KK immigration again.  Then a couple of years ago a new immigration office opened in Chaiyaphum - my province so my new office, no more KK for me (hurray) - so I decided to go down the proof of income route, only this time was prepared with an embassy letter. 

 

Bottom line is, KK immigration wouldn't accept my bank statements - but it was a few years ago.

 

Extra point - my UK income goes into my UK bank accounts. I don't transfer it to Thailand. I make Thai ATM withdrawals directly from my UK accounts when I want to access that money (expensive I know, but my choice). So the bank statements that KK immigration didn't like were UK statements. But they're the same bank statements the Embassy uses to give me the proof of income letter, and the proof of income letter is not a proof that the income has been transferred to a Thai bank account. I don't think Thai immigration require to see proof that your income has been transferred to a Thai account. Certainly nothing I now give to Chaiyaphum immigration suggests or indcates that my UK income has been transferred to a Thai bank.

Edited October 10, 2018 by White Tiger

[CharlieH]

6 minutes ago, White Tiger said:

I tried this about 5 or 6 years ago at Khon Kaen immigration and they told me my bank statements were unacceptable. They insisted on the Embassy proof of income letter. I was frustrated by this as I felt my bank statements gave them all the info they needed.  I got angry with them, embarrassed myself by losing my temper and calling them all names and walking out. I really lost it. Never been back to KK imigration since - felt sure there wouldn't be any point, although they may have forgotten me by now.

 

I can't remember whether I went back to the UK or Savannahket to get a new visa (I'm not getting my passport out now to check).  But I did get a new one, rather than an extension from immigration. Kept renewing my annual visa to avoid crossing swords with KK immigration again.  Then a couple of years ago a new immigration office opened in Chaiyaphum - my province so my new office, no more KK for me (hurray) - so I decided to go down the proof of income route, only this time was prepared with an embassy letter. 

 

Bottom line is, KK immigration wouldn't accept my bank statements - but it was a few years ago.

 

Extra point - my UK income goes into my UK bank accounts. I don't transfer it to Thailand. I make Thai ATM withdrawals directly from my UK accounts when I want to access that money. So the bank statements that KK immigration didn't like were UK statements. But they're the same bank statements the Embassy uses to give me the proof of income letter, and the proof of income letter is not a proof that the income has been transferred to a Thai bank account. I don't think Thai immigration require to see proof that your income has ben transferred to a Thai account. Certainly nothing I now give to Chaiyaphum immigration suggests or indcates that my UK income has been transferred to a Thai bank.

Just to clarify, when I said "same statements" mine were Thai bank statements showing money coming in to a Thai bank every month.

[Runamile]

The last couple of entries seem to say it all. The Thais will not accept British Bank Statements. The British won't supply consular letters henceforward. Net result of the actions of both authorities is to force us to whack 65kBaht a month into a Thai bank account for the convenience of those authorities - there's no legal reason for any of the funds to be in Thailand.

[White Tiger]

Ok - thanks for that clarification CharlieH.

[tropo]

1 hour ago, stewartthailand said:

Visited Jomtien Immigration this morning to query issue as my annual extension is due in April

IO suggested that I obtain BE confirmation letter in November (before deadline) then submit as normal in March 2019.

The alternative is to pay in 65,000 baht per month into my Thai bank account. I will of course be free to take this money out and as I do not spend 65,000 pm I can then feed the unused balance back in again.

When you say "the alternative is to pay in 65,000 baht per month into my Thai bank account" the suggestion is that the source does not matter and you confirm that belief by saying you can "feed the unused balance back in again".

 

This is early days so we don't know what's going to happen, but I would expect they'd want to see on your statement that the source was offshore. When I wire money in there's a note: "International trade and factoring center" next to the transaction.