BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[phutoie2]

For many years I have used the embassy income letter and savings in the bank (BKB) for retirement extensions. Will my Imm office accept the annual P60 and pension forecast plus savings?.  I cannot raise 800K Baht, so looks like a switch to a marriage extension. Yikes. 

[blackhorse]

Your money have been safe in UK...

Post of the week [emoji23]

[Psimbo]

Does anyone know what the Embassy actually DOES do- seems to be the sum total of sod all to me.

[baansgr]

3 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

And if it gets rid of those scammers that are bucking the system, using dodgy agents to fix their extensions or just telling downright lies to facilitate extensions then my view is damn good job too and clear off to PL ASAP. Some of us who have been here years legitimately are sick to the back teeth of being tarred with the same brush as the scammers/system buckers.

I think most people realise the extent of how many people use agents etc. By all means immigration can kill the goose but it will go a lot deeper than that. Lotus, Makro, bars, restaurants etc will be closing due to lack of customers. lots of expats will leave so be mindful of what you wish for.

[Esso49]

4 minutes ago, Fred31 said:

yep, a buch of layabouts, with no advocacy for British people -- why don't they protest?

 

And the numbers of British people actually working in the BKK Embassy (as opposed to foreign, non British), are diminishing every year

[Esso49]

9 minutes ago, phutoie2 said:

For many years I have used the embassy income letter and savings in the bank (BKB) for retirement extensions. Will my Imm office accept the annual P60 and pension forecast plus savings?.  I cannot raise 800K Baht, so looks like a switch to a marriage extension. Yikes. 

And what is the problem with an extension based on marriage, surely the way to go if you are married?   If necessary you can even get a WP .

 

As a side issue it is possibly a more stable, higher quality of person in the eyes of the Thais then Farangs on a retirement visa/extension just acting as if they are single ? 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Esso49

[soalbundy]

I have just sent an Email to the German embassy, they usually reply very quickly, unlike the British embassy who normally don't reply at all. I have looked at their website and have found nothing regarding this matter so perhaps it's a s0d you ex-pats from from GB only.

Edited October 8, 2018 by soalbundy

[Esso49]

7 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

Does anyone know what the Embassy actually DOES do- seems to be the sum total of sod all to me.

it appears that of late they are into property investment and sales mainly ????

[totally thaied up]

1 hour ago, Cletus said:

The message from the Thai authorities (Big Joke&Co) is clear:

there's too many farangs in our country, many of you are also abusing the system. We want only the very rich ones to live here (buy elite visa) or, at least, you have to deposit your money (800k/65kmonth) into our banks.

Too many people now scamming the system. I know most my mates have got 800K/400K in the bank but then, I know many others that do not and they have stayed on for years. If you cannot afford the cash and want to stay here, well, a can see a lot of rethinking. Others I know overtime are going to be caught out being smart are trying to use the system and they are going to get stung. 

 

This is going to be the norm for everyone (International) soon. Next will be the Australians and the Americans. I am just happy I bought over my cash when we had a high rate. This is coming down from the top I think. Thai Immigration has cleaned up the EDU Visas, Tourist Visas, border runs, etc. They are now just getting to the income and they know this will push a lot of people out of the country that are running on oily fumes. They don't want or need this type of person here and that is what I think (just my view) why this is happening. Extra money in the Thai Banks being just a win-win for them. 

[puchooay]

17 minutes ago, baansgr said:

I think most people realise the extent of how many people use agents etc. By all means immigration can kill the goose but it will go a lot deeper than that. Lotus, Makro, bars, restaurants etc will be closing due to lack of customers. lots of expats will leave so be mindful of what you wish for.

Lotus and Makro closing because a few expats can't stay here anymore. Thanks for the rib tickler. Funny.

[Neeranam]

51 minutes ago, Mark1066 said:

Legal documents issued in the UK, such as birth, marriage and divorce certificates, are 'legalised' by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in the UK, not the British Embassy in Thailand.

I know, but they never used to be.

I remember the time when you could walk into the British embassy and they'd pay for a flight home!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, blorg said:

 My point was more that the fact that we have reports that Thai immigration is no longer accepting US embassy income declarations on their own

 

There's been some additional reported scrutiny of American income affidavits at Chiang Mai Immigration lately.

 

But I and others have done our retirement extensions at CW Immigration in BKK in recent months using U.S. Embassy income affidavits, and those documents were accepted as proof of income without question, same as they always have been in BKK.

 

So your statement is at least overbroad, if not flatly incorrect.

[Thaidream]

No announcement on the US Embassy site; Canadian; Australian; German or the Thai Immigration website. If there is a change effective the first of 2019 it appears the British Embassy is the only one reporting it and their announcement  appears to read that they simply don't want to do it anymore because they cannot verify the income/

 

No one at this point knows if the change is from Thai Immigration or simply the British Embassy.  If the Thais are making a change - one will need to know the evidence needed to prove income.  People who have their  extension due early next year need to know NOW what the real story is.   US citizens going to CM Immigration are now having to provide backup evidence of income.  No problem for most but a nationwide change needs to have some forewarning so people can prepare.

[Shoeless Joe]

First - Thanks and kudos to CharlieH and UbonJoe for their clarification. I suspect that even more (clarity) will be needed in the coming months.

 

My concerns are more about the provision of proof of income for or exceeding, 65,000 baht per month than for those who have or deposit 800,000 baht.

 

I don't think it matters whether it's the British Embassy or Thai Immigration who have made this / these (decision(s). What seems important is that there's some explanation from the Thai immigration authorities with regards to providing proof of income to establish that a minimum of 65,000 baht is being transferred to ones Thai bank account.

 

I'm one of those ex-pats who for a number of reasons, is reluctant to deposit circa £20,000 into my Thai bank account. Every month, my Government pension is paid directly into my Thai bank account and then every month (as I have for the last 7 years), I transfer money from my bank in the UK directly into the same Thai bank account, resulting in a combined total comfortably exceeding 65,000 baht.

 

I'm wondering will I now have to approach my bank, hopeful that that they will be willing and able to provide some sort of supporting letter and official bank statements confirming the incoming monthly totals? On the odd occasion in the past when I've needed them to provide information (like for instance, official copies of bank statements) they've been incredibly reluctant to do so and have taken an extraordinary amount of time. I know I can access my account online and print my own bank statements but I'm not sure that without the bank's stamp, they will be deemed "official".

 

Regards,

 

Joe

[soalbundy]

I have just read the announcement on the British embassy website, they say ''they no longer issue the confirmation because THEY are unable to fulfil the Thai authorities requirements'' seems to be a purely British thing to me and not something the Thais have dreamt up. Possibly too many Brits have been caught out using dodgy schemes.

[Peterw42]

Can a Brit verify if you personally sign the consulate income letters ? The same as Australia, Canada, US etc, where its more a personal declaration.

[cleopatra2]

According to the British Embassy website , they are no longer in a position to fullfil the Thai's requirements for income letter verification .

 

There recommended alternative , demonstrate by the transfer of funds into a Thai bank , raise a few questions.

 

Is this verification via Thai bank  a new process or established immigration proceedure.

If established why was it not published, did the relevant police orders specify income verification letter or simply income verification

[Shoeless Joe]

2 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Can a Brit verify if you personally sign the consulate income letters ? The same as Australia, Canada, US etc, where its more a personal declaration.

No, the "consulate income letter" from the British Embassy is not signed by the claimant.

 

You are required to sign and have witnessed the supporting document(s) provided by the British Embassy to verify the income. One sends this and the supporting information to the Embassy who in return send back an "official, stamped" letter signed by an Embassy official, confirming to immigration the amount of money.

 

Regards,

 

Joe

[cyberfarang]

47 minutes ago, phutoie2 said:

For many years I have used the embassy income letter and savings in the bank (BKB) for retirement extensions. Will my Imm office accept the annual P60 and pension forecast plus savings?.  I cannot raise 800K Baht, so looks like a switch to a marriage extension. Yikes. 

Short answer is a definite, NO.

 

Long answer is that Thai immigration would not know what a UK P60 and a pension forecast is.

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

Why are you letting facts get in the way?

Gotta feel for the brits though first brexit and then the currency crash and now even their own embassy dumps them.

I think we are quite used to the latter point in your post, the British embassy is merely a gin tonic fortress.

[soalbundy]

15 minutes ago, Shoeless Joe said:

First - Thanks and kudos to CharlieH and UbonJoe for their clarification. I suspect that even more (clarity) will be needed in the coming months.

 

My concerns are more about the provision of proof of income for or exceeding, 65,000 baht per month than for those who have or deposit 800,000 baht.

 

I don't think it matters whether it's the British Embassy or Thai Immigration who have made this / these (decision(s). What seems important is that there's some explanation from the Thai immigration authorities with regards to providing proof of income to establish that a minimum of 65,000 baht is being transferred to ones Thai bank account.

 

I'm one of those ex-pats who for a number of reasons, is reluctant to deposit circa £20,000 into my Thai bank account. Every month, my Government pension is paid directly into my Thai bank account and then every month (as I have for the last 7 years), I transfer money from my bank in the UK directly into the same Thai bank account, resulting in a combined total comfortably exceeding 65,000 baht.

 

I'm wondering will I now have to approach my bank, hopeful that that they will be willing and able to provide some sort of supporting letter and official bank statements confirming the incoming monthly totals? On the odd occasion in the past when I've needed them to provide information (like for instance, official copies of bank statements) they've been incredibly reluctant to do so and have taken an extraordinary amount of time. I know I can access my account online and print my own bank statements but I'm not sure that without the bank's stamp, they will be deemed "official".

 

Regards,

 

Joe

I haven't seen ubonjoes response although I have tried searching, can you direct me to his post please

[cyberfarang]

I am guessing that sooner or later Thai immigration for those using the 400000 baht marriage extension or the 800000 baht retirement extension methods, that they will also want to see bank books showing money going in and out dating back 3 or 6 months to establish how applicants are financially supporting themselves in Thailand.

 

So for those working illegally or running illegal businesses in Thailand to obtain income, the game could soon be up.

 

Be prepared.

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, Shoeless Joe said:

No, the "consulate income letter" from the British Embassy is not signed by the claimant.

 

You are required to sign and have witnessed the supporting document(s) provided by the British Embassy to verify the income. One sends this and the supporting information to the Embassy who in return send back an "official, stamped" letter signed by an Embassy official, confirming to immigration the amount of money.

 

Regards,

 

Joe

Thanks, I think this may have something to do with the whole thing. Other countries letters (declarations/affidavits) are written/signed by the claimant and the consulate witnesses the signature etc.

One is a letter from a consulate, the others are letters from the individual applying for the visa.

Immigration can ask an individual for more proof, they cant ask the consulate for more proof (what the OP says)

[Jingthing]

I am guessing that sooner or later Thai immigration for those using the 400000 baht marriage extension or the 800000 baht retirement extension methods, that they will also want to see bank books showing money going in and out dating back 3 or 6 months to establish how applicants are financially supporting themselves in Thailand.
 
So for those working illegally or running illegal businesses in Thailand to obtain income, the game could soon be up.
 
Be prepared.

Huh?
Immigration has always required copies of bank books showing the last three months for the 800k method. Nothing new. They need to check if the money has been seasoned.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

No one at this point knows if the change is from Thai Immigration or simply the British Embassy.  If the Thais are making a change - one will need to know the evidence needed to prove income.  People who have their  extension due early next year need to know NOW what the real story is.   US citizens going to CM Immigration are now having to provide backup evidence of income.  No problem for most but a nationwide change needs to have some forewarning so people can prepare.

 

This is one of the best comments among all here...

 

LOTS of expats here have the income, but the question comes down to what if any changes are Thai Immigration going to make in terms of acceptable/sufficient documentation.

 

Up until now, there has been ZERO requirement to prove either 40K or 65K per month coming into Thailand -- just that the applicant has that monthly income. That would be a major change, if all this uncertainty ends up with only Thai bank deposits/withdrawals being acceptable proof of monthly income.

 

Will foreign bank and pension statements be accepted in the future?  What about folks who currently get their monthly funds via foreign debit card withdrawals at Thai bank ATMs, for which the only Thai record is ATM receipts?   Etc etc etc.

 

As usual when it comes to Thai Immigration, lots of uncertainty, very few factual details and considerable anxiety.

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Thanks, I think this may have something to do with the whole thing. Other countries letters (declarations/affidavits) are written/signed by the claimant and the consulate witnesses the signature etc.

One is a letter from a consulate, the others are letters from the individual applying for the visa.

Immigration can ask an individual for more proof, they cant ask the consulate for more proof (what the OP says)

I don't sign at the German embassy either but they want proof of income, ID etc which I believe they copy into a computer, they make additional copies of everything you present to them and will only accept originals, the letter that they print out seems to have a safety strip (like a bank note) on it. Once you are in their computer you are a yearly customer so to speak, they can follow every application you have ever made. I always go personally every year, the good thing is that you don't deal with some stuck up Thai as with the GB embassy but with a German, the same guy every year. 

[mfd101]

15 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Thanks, I think this may have something to do with the whole thing. Other countries letters (declarations/affidavits) are written/signed by the claimant and the consulate witnesses the signature etc.

One is a letter from a consulate, the others are letters from the individual applying for the visa.

Immigration can ask an individual for more proof, they cant ask the consulate for more proof (what the OP says)

I think that's getting close to the answer. The Brit Embassy has been preparing letters, as it were in its own name, vouching for the accuracy of accompanying docos - something it's not really equipped or resourced to do.

 

Other embassies - certainly the OzEmb where I did my annual visit a couple of weeks ago - just WITNESS your stat dec or affidavit. Which means that the Embassy vouches for nothing beyond YOUR signature on a doco - a MUCH less onerous responsibility, from a legal point of view.

 

I shall be at Kap Choeng for my annual renewal on grounds of retirement in 2 days from now. Will report on anything new or unusual there. I'm taking my BKK Bank book with me, along with a pile of atm slips (both BKKBk and Citibank in BKK). I'm not expecting to need them but we shall see.

 

 

[Mark1066]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Huh?
Immigration has always required copies of bank books showing the last three months for the 800k method. Nothing new. They need to check if the money has been seasoned.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I think you're missing the point cyberfarang was making: that at some point in the future we may be required to prove we are actually using the money deposited in our Thai bank accounts - 'money going in and out'.

[totally thaied up]

5 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

I am guessing that sooner or later Thai immigration for those using the 400000 baht marriage extension or the 800000 baht retirement extension methods, that they will also want to see bank books showing money going in and out dating back 3 or 6 months to establish how applicants are financially supporting themselves in Thailand.

 

So for those working illegally or running illegal businesses in Thailand to obtain income, the game could soon be up.

 

Be prepared.

If this happened, that game would be over for most of us on marriage extensions. I only bring in 20-30K a month these days as my wife has been earning the rest in her business. I am not going to pull over large amounts of money when the FX rate is so poor. We pool our money together. It is ours collectively (like a normal marriage) and I cannot see how Immigration is going to suddenly say to me that my wife makes no money and I am forced to bring in more money every month when I have 400K in a bank? Christ, my wife in Lands and Housing is way richer than me just at this moment of time because I keep my wealth offshore. I get a pension letter granted to me yearly from my Government. This would be a real mush pot in being able to track. Hell, some of my mate's wives are on serious money (dentists, lawyers) and it seems laughable to me as 400k is a pittance to them.  Where would this end?

 

As you said, I gather you can only be prepared but if this really became push to shove, I would most likely relocate. I came here for an easy life and to date, I have followed rules but the scammers are the ones that have ruined this as far as I can see, for those of us that are honest. The Embassy has done this for some reason and most of us can gather why. They have asked for 400K and I have done it. What else needs to be asked.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Mark1066 said:

I think you're missing the point cyberfarang was making: that at some point in the future we may be required to prove we are actually using the money deposited in our Thai bank accounts - 'money going in and out'.

I actually think that's paranoid. You can keep that 800K untouched if you want. The seasoning requirement is strictly enforced. I'm not seeing any connection between this British embassy kerfuffle over INCOME based applications and full 800K bank account applications. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Jingthing