"Easy Ride" for pensioners in Thailand now over, says Pattaya Radio

[rott]

6 minutes ago, Teee said:

Why is everyone blaming the British Embassy for this.

This has come direct from the UK Govt.

Look on gov.uk website.

I dont think its a problem. The only people that should be concerned is the ones who live in Thailand with hardly any money.

I dont live in Thailand. I spent almost 1 year in Bkk and returned home in June.

Thailand is expensive.

Housing and transport is cheap and cost of hotels are cheap when i wanted to travel to the beach.

But honestly...street food from filthy road side sellers at 50bht does not appeal to me.

Cheaper to eat and drink in UK.

I never went to Thailand to go girlie bars or such (never appealed to me) as i was living with my gf (not thai).

Can all you ex pats tell me what the appeal is of living in Thailand on 15,000bht a month after taking off housing costs?

I was spending 25000bht after paying my half share of condo cost a month.

My idea of going to live somewhere other than at home in the UK watching where i spend my money and keeping tabs on how many times i go out in a month just does not do it for me.

Maybe with all that is happening in Thailand with immigration time you went back home instead of moaning.

Maybe its Thailand just had enough of people living there and not spending much money that is not helping the economy. 

Tourists are what they are wanting...not people living there and not really contributing apart from buying a 80bht Chang or Leo.

 

 

 

You are the one doing the moaning. People here are just carrying on.with life same as people anywhere.

[Teee]

As I said...maybe all the changes that is happening from Thai Immigration and now having to prove you have the money to actually live and contribute financially to the economy if you cant show that you do then they dont want you there...so you move on.

Same in any country. 

For someone to get a Visa for most countries you have to prove you have the money to live and contribute to the economy.

If you dont then you dont get a Visa.

Simple really.

[sambum]

59 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Sometimes, I think these type announcements are made for no other reason than to terrorize people.  I don't see how the UK embassy can maintain this position.  I'd expect to see some modification made to their announcement well before the 12 December deadline.

Change "expect" to "hope"!

 

 

[poanoi]

3 hours ago, wayned said:

The one drawback of the US affidavit system is that I have to get off my butt and go to the embassy to raise my hand and swear and of course pay the %50 fee. 

the drawback i see with it is that it is only ever mouth-farting

from the applicant, with squat to back it up.

but anyway, to prevent more corruption,

i think the only solution is to skip requirements altogether and just demand a fixed price, for starters it will make it more transparent, an applicant can see the cost of visa and weigh it vs other countries visa,

the immigration officers cant blackmail, no money goes to corrupt police OR visa agents, its all going to thai government

Edited October 10, 2018 by poanoi

[sambum]

2 minutes ago, Teee said:

As I said...maybe all the changes that is happening from Thai Immigration and now having to prove you have the money to actually live and contribute financially to the economy if you cant show that you do then they dont want you there...so you move on.

Same in any country. 

For someone to get a Visa for most countries you have to prove you have the money to live and contribute to the economy.

If you dont then you dont get a Visa.

Simple really.

"you have to prove you have the money to live and contribute to the economy."

 

Which is EXACTLY what the "Proof of Income" letter provided  - that's what it says on the tin - PROOF OF INCOME!!! Doh!

[blackhorse]

Why is everyone blaming the British Embassy for this.
This has come direct from the UK Govt.
Look on gov.uk website.
I dont think its a problem. The only people that should be concerned is the ones who live in Thailand with hardly any money.
I dont live in Thailand. I spent almost 1 year in Bkk and returned home in June.
Thailand is expensive.
Housing and transport is cheap and cost of hotels are cheap when i wanted to travel to the beach.
But honestly...street food from filthy road side sellers at 50bht does not appeal to me.
Cheaper to eat and drink in UK.
I never went to Thailand to go girlie bars or such (never appealed to me) as i was living with my gf (not thai).
Can all you ex pats tell me what the appeal is of living in Thailand on 15,000bht a month after taking off housing costs?
I was spending 25000bht after paying my half share of condo cost a month.
My idea of going to live somewhere other than at home in the UK watching where i spend my money and keeping tabs on how many times i go out in a month just does not do it for me.
Maybe with all that is happening in Thailand with immigration time you went back home instead of moaning.
Maybe its Thailand just had enough of people living there and not spending much money that is not helping the economy. 
Tourists are what they are wanting...not people living there and not really contributing apart from buying a 80bht Chang or Leo.
 
 
 

What's the difference? 800k in the bank or lifetime of 65 k. Ask anybody which they would prefer and the choice is obvious

These are not poor people and many support extended thai families easily

[zydeco]

6 minutes ago, sambum said:

Change "expect" to "hope"!

 

 

This policy has no effect on me; I'm not a UK citizen.  It just seems too irrational to be enforced as they are planning. 

Edited October 10, 2018 by zydeco

[richiejom]

17 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Can see any Embassy  wanting to confirm false statements, so thats perhaps why. There will be a way round for the genuine eventually, only the fraudsters need panic.

I don't see how people can fake any of these documents.  Bank statements you can call the bank to verify it is a genuine statement and pension letters can be verified also.

 

Even if you were to alter a bank statement how many people are willing to risk being blacklisted 

[poanoi]

2 minutes ago, sambum said:

"you have to prove you have the money to live and contribute to the economy."

 

Which is EXACTLY what the "Proof of Income" letter provided  - that's what it says on the tin - PROOF OF INCOME!!! Doh!

well, you prove it by eating, renting a room, staying alive,

its a folly to think you can weed out criminals by demanding an affidavit

[chickenslegs]

7 minutes ago, Teee said:

For someone to get a Visa for most countries you have to prove you have the money to live and contribute to the economy.

If you dont then you dont get a Visa.

Simple really.

As far as I'm aware Thai people applying for a UK visa do not need to have their income or savings guaranteed by a Thai Government agency. They can just show their bank statements or other evidence.

 

 

[Teee]

2 minutes ago, sambum said:

"you have to prove you have the money to live and contribute to the economy."

 

Which is EXACTLY what the "Proof of Income" letter provided  - that's what it says on the tin - PROOF OF INCOME!!! Doh!

Proof of Income letter proves nothing. By all the comments on here...seems you did not prove anything apart from making up figures and getting the Embassy to say yes thats ok...without verification.

Does not prove you have money.

To get visa say in UK you have to show Bank Statements real ones and stamped by the bank to show that document is genuine.

 

[richiejom]

7 Signatures so far: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/230120/sponsors/new?token=DK30K4e4lQKtLa3JO0h8

 

 

[wgdanson]

11 minutes ago, richiejom said:

7 Signatures so far: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/230120/sponsors/new?token=DK30K4e4lQKtLa3JO0h8

 

 

Another one here mate.

 

[richiejom]

19 minutes ago, Teee said:

Proof of Income letter proves nothing. By all the comments on here...seems you did not prove anything apart from making up figures and getting the Embassy to say yes thats ok...without verification.

Does not prove you have money.

To get visa say in UK you have to show Bank Statements real ones and stamped by the bank to show that document is genuine.

 

you can't fake bank statements, even PDF bank statements say on the footer, 'If anything looks incorrect about this document please call xxx xxxx'  they can confirm bank statements.... UK Embassy could do random checks.. who's going to risk faking them?

[marqus12]

There are advantages in this annoying uncertainty in this country...
if some 50,000 English expats leave Thailand
We can expect a 50k increase in the number of lonely stray "cats"
looking for food ... prices will fall. ????

[HAKAPALITA]

12 minutes ago, richiejom said:

you can't fake bank statements, even PDF bank statements say on the footer, 'If anything looks incorrect about this document please call xxx xxxx'  they can confirm bank statements.... UK Embassy could do random checks.. who's going to risk faking them?

Dont think that Bitcoins very pro establishment.

[wayned]

45 minutes ago, poanoi said:

the drawback i see with it is that it is only ever mouth-farting

from the applicant, with squat to back it up.

Total BS!  I always have the backup with me at both the US Embassy and immigration every year, but they do not want it since they do not have the staff, ability or time to validate that it is true.  Immigration has never asked for it, only the affidavit  I know two people that live a comfortable life here with their Thai families that use the affidavit system that would not qualify if they had to show money in the bank.  So you think that people like this should not be here and should be deported leaving their families here with no support and end up living in a cardboard box under a freeway bridge in LA because there is no way that they could survive there on what they get.  Is that what you are saying?

[cleverman]

On 9 October 2018 at 4:23 PM, Samui Bodoh said:

"..Let's deal with FACTS, rather than assumptions and wishes, shall we?"

 

You are assuming that thousands of people are going to have trouble; that is not realistic.

 

 

There are thousands of people here who don't have the required income or cash. That is being realistic. That they should not be here is law. That is realistic. 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, cleverman said:

There are thousands of people here who don't have the required income or cash. That is being realistic. That they should not be here is law. That is realistic. 

You are conflating different issues.

Not many people are going to defend people claiming income that doesn't exist.

The focus of this news it's not that.

It's more of a conflict of responsibilities.

The issue here is about people with legitimate income not being able to get income letters anymore from the British embassy (and possibly others to come but as this point we don't know) that are indeed required by Thai immigration for ALL income based applications. 

Nobody wants to really take responsibility for fully verifying the legitimacy of the income claims.

But where you're going with this is to focus only on the fraudulent claims.

This is about impact to ALL British income based applicants! Fraudulent or not. 

[blackhorse]

7 Signatures so far: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/230120/sponsors/new?token=DK30K4e4lQKtLa3JO0h8
 
 

I'm in

[Kerryd]

Lol - apparently a lot of people think that all the Embassy has to do is pick up the phone, make a call to the UK to request the financial details about a person and poof ! 30 seconds later they'll have all of that person's information at their fingertips and then they can simply print off the Letter and it's done.

 

Seriously - it does seem that a lot of people actually think that it's just that easy.

Ring, ring, "click" - Hello, this is the UK.

UK Embassy in Thailand: Uh yes good chap, I have a Godfrey Rathbone the third at the Embassy now requesting that we verify his pension income. Be a good chap and fetch that information for me. I'll hold.

UK: OK but we'll have to violate a couple of Privacy laws unless we can get MI-6 to hack the financial mainframe. Any chance old Godfrey is a terrorist ? 

Embassy: Well, he looks a little shady in his "wife beater" undershirt and beach shorts, but he is wearing socks with his flip flops so he's probably not a terrorist. 

UK: Well that complicates matters. Would be much simpler if he was a suspected terrorist. Oh well, we'll have to petition a magistrate to grant us a warrant so that we can request his financial details from the various banks, trust funds, company pension funds and wherever else he is getting his money from. Could take weeks, maybe even months.

Embassy: Oh dear. The man is claiming that if he doesn't get that letter today they'll kick him out of the country tomorrow.

 

UK: Well, does he have any proof that he is actually receiving the monies he says he is ?

Embassy: Heavens no ! We are just supposed to accept his word for it because, being British, he'd never lie to his government or his Queen about such things would he ?

UK: I'm not going to answer that as this call is being recorded.

UK: Can't you just give him the letter and tell him to bring better proof next time ?

Embassy: That was how we used to do it but the Thais have said they are going to hold us "co-liable" for the contents of the Letter ! Can you believe that ! Holding us liable for notarizing a letter saying one of our citizens is receiving a certain level of pension income that we have no way of knowing if it's true or not ? Who do they think they are !

If it turns out old Godfrey has been less than truthful, he could be detained and deported and we'd have to pay for it ! Can't have that now, can we ?

 

UK: Most certainly not ! Best to stop issuing the letters then. Certainly don't want to be left liable for the thousands of other "Godfreys" that might have problems proving their pension incomes as well !
Have any of them complained about the new policy ?

Embassy: Well, one chap called about it and another may have sent an email. That's about it. We don't monitor all the social media sites in the country so it's possible some people may have commented on some of them.

UK: Well, if only 2 people have inquired about it then it probably isn't a problem for the rest of them. Wouldn't worry about it if I was you old bean !

Embassy: Right you are ! Off to tea then. Pip pip and cheerio !

UK: "click" (recording turned off) Remember next time to say that the person looks a little shady and was talking in a foreign language. That way we can get all the information on him that you could possibly want without delays or concerns about the law ! We'll have his whole life history and financials to you within seconds.

 

Embassy: What a coincidence ! Another chap just walked in asking for an Income Letter as well.
UK: "click" (recording enabled): Describe him to me.

Embassy: Well, he smells like he hasn't bathed in the last 3 days, looks like he puked on his undershirt and soiled his shorts and  - my word - he's not wearing socks !!! I'm sure I just heard him speak to a local in their own language too. Definitely a shady character ! Says his name is Harald Bottomsworth from Backside-on-the-Privy.
 

UK: Roger that, wait one. OK - here's all his financial information from the time he was born until the bowl of Som Tam he bought 10 minutes ago outside the Embassy. We also have his employment records, list of known associates, medical records and the details of his last 3 divorces. I have his school records, arrest reports and how much he owes various pubs in his home village. Let me know if you want all that information as well.

 

Embassy: Jolly good ! I think we'll just tell him that we don't do those letters anymore. That should cut down on the number of these smelly blokes that show up here and interfere with my afternoon tea.

UK: I hear you. Glad we couldn't be of assistance. Don't hesitate to call again if you don't want us to help you ! Always a pleasure screwing over our own citizens.

Wait - did I forget to stop the recording before I said that ? Oh dear. 

"UK - please report to the FCO's office. NOW."

"click"

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by Kerryd

[johng]

1 hour ago, richiejom said:

It needs 5 people to sign to go live 'Reinstate Pension/Income Letters at Bangkok British Embassy' 

I just signed too.

[White Tiger]

I've signed. Nice work. 

[poanoi]

21 minutes ago, wayned said:

Total BS!  I always have the backup with me at both the US Embassy and immigration every year, but they do not want it since they do not have the staff, ability or time to validate that it is true.  Immigration has never asked for it, only the affidavit  I know two people that live a comfortable life here with their Thai families that use the affidavit system that would not qualify if they had to show money in the bank.  So you think that people like this should not be here and should be deported leaving their families here with no support and end up living in a cardboard box under a freeway bridge in LA because there is no way that they could survive there on what they get.  Is that what you are saying?

no, i have come to the conclusion the entire 'show money' thing only ever creates corruption, it sure dont weed out criminals, i think it should be discontinued and replaced with a transparent 'pay x' if you want to live here, it goes directly into thai government,

as opposed to immigration thieves and agents, no doubt that shithole is full of thieves also,

but at least i wont know about it or be subject to it.

as it is now, cost of visa vary between less than 2k per year to 100.000 per year, depending on your luck of straw, and theres no telling beforehand before you came here

Edited October 10, 2018 by poanoi

[richiejom]

1 minute ago, johng said:

I just signed too.

The signatures are picking up now, its got 13...I made a thread: 

 

[Issanjohn]

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Not sure what you're saying there.

The British embassy in their announcement said Brits could still do income applications without income letters from their embassy. At this point in time, I see no reason to believe that.

Thai immigration policy stands -- embassy letters needed for income based applications.

800K bank account applications of course not impacted.

All the years I’ve been living here I’ve always gone by my monthly income based on my monthly pension payments which is well over the minimum of 40,000 Baht a month.  I’ve never gone by what I have saved in the bank and I never plan to.  Although I’m living here retired but on a marriage visa not a retirement visa so I believe it’s different for marriage visas.  I get my Proof of Income Affidavit based on my monthly income and I always will, but that’s for a marriage visa.  I don’t go by the 4 or 800K in the bank and I’ve never been required to and I will continue to use my monthly income.  I’m a United States citizen on a marriage visa though.  

 

I called and according to the United States Embassy they have no plans on ceasing to provide the Proof of Income Affidavit service to us United States citizens ever in the foreseeable future.  So we should be okay and that information came from an embassy employee of the State Department.   I have no clue what the British Embassy is doing the Proof of Income Affidavit is most certainly in accordance with Thai immigration policy because that’s the document they actually require.  Sounds like laziness to me in the British Embassy I don’t know.  

[Issanjohn]

11 hours ago, stanleycoin said:

Come on,  Confrontational, its only a forum, no big deal.

 

Mate all you have said is , I'm all right jack !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Some people come to Thailand years ago, with pots of cash, things have gone wrong over time, and now they should piss off back to the uk !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  think not.

they have given there life's saving to supporting the Thai economy and families

who's children are not there own.

The uk government are dicks to start this.

but as one poster pointed out , the uk see us Ex pats as  nothing more than Traitors.

 

 

 

 

No just some people are just so quick to disagree with everything you say on here even if I say the sky is blue.  I’m not just talking about this topic.  Of course you shouldn’t leave Thailand over a stupid piece of paper I know I sure would not.  I don’t blame you I’d be complaining to your Embassador if I were a British citizen.  I agree with you and I’m really sorry that you Brits have to deal with this.  I think it’s total BS.  

[poanoi]

6 minutes ago, Issanjohn said:

All the years I’ve been living here I’ve always gone by my monthly income based on my monthly pension payments which is well over the minimum of 40,000 Baht a month.  I’ve never gone by what I have saved in the bank and I never plan to.  Although I’m living here retired but on a marriage visa not a retirement visa so I believe it’s different for marriage visas.  I get my Proof of Income Affidavit based on my monthly income and I always will, but that’s for a marriage visa.  I don’t go by the 4 or 800K in the bank and I’ve never been required to and I will continue to use my monthly income.  I’m a United States citizen on a marriage visa though.  

 

I called and according to the United States Embassy they have no plans on ceasing to provide the Proof of Income Affidavit service to us United States citizens ever in the foreseeable future.  So we should be okay and that information came from an embassy employee of the State Department.   I have no clue what the British Embassy is doing the Proof of Income Affidavit is most certainly in accordance with Thai immigration policy because that’s the document they actually require.  Sounds like laziness to me in the British Embassy I don’t know.  

just so you know, immigration can deny your extension on a whim and no amount of proof will suffice if they dont feel like it, i had certified income double stamped both at embassy & ministry in bkk, she carried on demanding proof i had transferred money, -i gave her more ATM slips than she wanted, but she still refused to do her duty,

she just kept stalling until i had to leave for another visa

Edited October 10, 2018 by poanoi

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, poanoi said:

just so you know, immigration can deny your extension on a whim and no amount of proof will suffice if they dont feel like it, i had certified income double stamped both at embassy & ministry in bkk, she carried on demanding proof i had transferred money, -i gave her more ATM slips than she wanted, but she still refused to do her duty,

she just kept stalling until i had to leave for another visa

I think it's just you.  I've been to immigration all over Thailand 80 times and never had a problem that was insurmountable. 

[Issanjohn]

2 minutes ago, poanoi said:

just so you know, immigration can deny your extension on a whim and no amount of proof will suffice if they dont feel like it, i had certified income double stamped both at embassy & ministry in bkk, she carried on demanding proof i had transferred money, -i gave her more ATM slips than she wanted, but she still refused to do her duty,

she just kept stalling until i had to leave for another visa

I’ve never had that problem.  If I had that problem I would have left and came back later and dealt with a different Immigration Officer.  I know they can deny it but they normally will not as long as you’re following their laws.  They never ask me for anything more than the Proof of Income Affidavit I’ve never heard of them asking for more than that for income verification.  You’re the first person I’ve ever heard say anything like that experience.  What type of visa are you on?