"Easy Ride" for pensioners in Thailand now over, says Pattaya Radio

[gk10002000]

The problem is, if the Thais play hard ball and say:  "show monthly deposits into Thailand".  well, a host of issues.  1:  If you are a new retiree, you won't have any history of monthly deposits!  2:  even if one has monthly deposits somehow, that doesn't show one has a pension, or other readily verified income source such as social security. 3:  Many people such as me don't get pensions but have tons of dividends and interest.  Do you really think the Thais would understand that?  They tend to historically be geared mentally toward monthly regular things.  Not biannual bond interest payments, or quarterly stock dividends.  And many people would not transfer in funds periodically.  Some travel home once or twice  a year, and choose to bring cash back with them.  Or others don't want the hassle or expense of regularly transferring funds monthly, but do it maybe once every three months or less.   

[gk10002000]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Should? 

It seems wiser to me to spend down that account during the year and top it up annually when using the 800K baht method. 

But I would never be so arrogant as to suggest everyone SHOULD do it that way. 

I would not be surprised if the Thais at some point want to see that drawdown as "proof" one is actually using the money.  If one doesn't spend down that 800k, then the natural question is and the presumption is they have funds coming in from somewhere else!  So if they have funds coming in, why not do the income method?

[The manic]

3 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

The problem is, if the Thais play hard ball and say:  "show monthly deposits into Thailand".  well, a host of issues.  1:  If you are a new retiree, you won't have any history of monthly deposits!  2:  even if one has monthly deposits somehow, that doesn't show one has a pension, or other readily verified income source such as social security. 3:  Many people such as me don't get pensions but have tons of dividends and interest.  Do you really think the Thais would understand that?  They tend to historically be geared mentally toward monthly regular things.  Not biannual bond interest payments, or quarterly stock dividends.  And many people would not transfer in funds periodically.  Some travel home once or twice  a year, and choose to bring cash back with them.  Or others don't want the hassle or expense of regularly transferring funds monthly, but do it maybe once every three months or less.   

My thoughts too

[bwpage3]

1 hour ago, The manic said:

Is this predicated on the assumption that we all are Americans with American pensions?

No.

 

This is predicated you paid in the max amount for the 35 years and you continue to defer retirement past the year you can collect your $2788 (2018 dollars).

 

$2788 (89,216 thb /month) per month is the max value in 2018

 

The value I quoted has calculations moved out until 2037. 

 

The max value ($2788)  will increase over the next 19 years and if you are able to defer it years after you turn 66, you can get an additional 8% X 4 years (32%) till age 70.

 

The 70 age may change to 75 in the future? That would give you 8% X 9 years or 72% more if you worked till age 75

 

All a US pensioner that has max social security would need to do, is save that social security in the bank for 1 year (1,070,592) then move to Thailand and live on their 89,216 a month (current value), while leaving the 1,070,592 in the bank for VISA verification

 

 

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, The manic said:

So if you are not living here and non of these issues are relevant to you why are you wasting our time on this forum? Join a Florida forum for smugs.

Because if he posted of what he sees as his substantial financial state of affairs on a Florida forum for smugs it would get nothing but a big yawn.

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Unless there is a real crackdown on agency corruption, Which is possible if historically unlikely. 

 

2 hours ago, The manic said:

But might be bothered by Agency clamp downs

For the moment I would take the risk and kick the ball down the road.

[roquefort]

15 hours ago, SkyNets said:

Wait what!.... there's still a British embassy here ? lol

The income letter (for which they charged handsomely) was the only remaining useful purpose of the British Embassy. They've long since abandoned any pretence of assisting British nationals in Thailand, and have also sold off what remains of the prime site on which the embassy was located (a beautiful, historical building which will now become what Bangkok really needs.................... yet another shopping mall).

Presumable they can now save on all those expensive expat salary packages and send the whole useless bunch of hangers-on back to Blighty.

[stanleycoin]

5 hours ago, Issanjohn said:

Why is everyone on this site so confrontational to each other?  Relax as long as you do everything legally in accordance with Thailand’s immigration laws and as long as you qualify for the long stay visas you’ll be okay you’ll get your visa it’ll be fine.  Everyone needs to relax I used to worry about these things my first few years here but I’ve never had a problem and it seems like there’s always some story like this every year.  

Come on,  Confrontational, its only a forum, no big deal.

 

Mate all you have said is , I'm all right jack !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Some people come to Thailand years ago, with pots of cash, things have gone wrong over time, and now they should piss off back to the uk !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  think not.

they have given there life's saving to supporting the Thai economy and families

who's children are not there own.

The uk government are dicks to start this.

but as one poster pointed out , the uk see us Ex pats as  nothing more than Traitors.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by stanleycoin

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post containing insults toward others has been removed as well as the replies:

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[bkk6060]

I think for Brits Myanmar will be a good option.

Go check it out lots to offer.

[superal]

10 hours ago, OJAS said:

That, of course, assumes that the good ol' Embassy aren't also planning to stop issuing the required affirmations of freedom to marry.....

All joking aside ,  many a true word said in jest . It appears that the B/Embassy are minimizing their duties and sub contracting out where feasible , having said that the loss of revenue from income affirmation must be substantial . Me thinks a can of worms has just been opened .

[bkk6060]

5 minutes ago, superal said:

All joking aside ,  many a true word said in jest . It appears that the B/Embassy are minimizing their duties and sub contracting out where feasible , having said that the loss of revenue from income affirmation must be substantial . Me thinks a can of worms has just been opened .

They are supported by the British government not one service.

There are still many services they provide and charge for, I doubt they will go broke due to this.

[stanleycoin]

24 minutes ago, superal said:

All joking aside ,  many a true word said in jest . It appears that the B/Embassy are minimizing their duties and sub contracting out where feasible , having said that the loss of revenue from income affirmation must be substantial . Me thinks a can of worms has just been opened .

Nah

The uk government are getting the real money from visa applications. 

 Greedy git's they are.

But yes, sure is a can of worms

Edited October 9, 2018 by stanleycoin

[kiwikeith]

18 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Utter pile of rot. Yesterday I bumped into a visa agency guy I have known for years. He told me last week things looked tough. Yesterday, everything was back to normal. Has anyone here ever known a crackdown on anything to last more than a week?

I am sure there will be fun and games, and probably payments to deal with the proof of finances issue, but nothing of substance is likely to change.

Your probably right.

One thing that might aggravate things is slagging Big Joke on Thai Visa.

I think people should chill a bit as these guys in power do not have a sense of humour.

Things should settle as darkside posts, I hope he is right.

[graemeaylward]

Just a thought, but are the requirements for obtaining a Non Immigrant "O" visa on the grounds of retirement still the same with regard to proof of income? If so, rather than worry about an annual extension, one could hop out of the country to the nearest Thai Embassy/Consulate and get a new visa every year! Very inconvenient, I grant you, but possibly a solution for some.

Sent from my Lenovo A3000-H using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[jimn]

5 hours ago, 55Jay said:

How do you know your esteemed embassy actually checks anything in those bits of paper you so dutifully hand in and boast about?

 

You seem sure, and I've always wanted to know:

 

Does the UK Embassy have unfettered access into another, totally separate department's system like this? 

 

What is the process for non-Gov/private pension verification? 

 

What is the process for non-standard and passive income - bank interest, investments, royalties, rental, internet work, consulting, etc....?

 

Given the relatively short turn around time, universal no matter the complexity of income, I presume computers are used in the process.  What kind of IT systems and access are we talking about here? 

 

In the likely event there is non-UK origin income, how does the UK Embassy employee access foreign systems and information?  What if it's in Chinese?

 

I suppose all that is very possible in today's modern age.

 

Which reminds me... who, specifically, does this checking?

• A Thai/foreign national administrative support employee?
• Or a vetted UK Citizen government employee with the god-level clearance required for this kind of access, and idle time to perform low level admin work.

All this.  For Thailand.  For reasons.

At no stage did I say "esteemed" embassy and certainly haven't boasted anout anything. This is the problem with you yanks you open your mouths without engaging your brain. The post I replied to suggested Brits show forged or no documents to get the letter when in fact the opposite is true. As for varifying the documents hence the issue. I think the letter starts something like.... "Mr xxx xxxxxx has shown us information thay he has an income of £xxxxxxx per annum from his xxxx pension". They dont say which proves.

Please get off your high horse. Dont know why you are even commenting on something thats not affecting you.

Edited October 10, 2018 by jimn

[wgdanson]

8 hours ago, Greenhill said:

Original bank statements are pretty good proof, are they not?

I would hope so. However, in these days of internet banking, you do not get 'original' statements. You must print them off yourself. I just hope that the Consulate will still accept them as proof of income. We'll see.

[Kerryd]

13 hours ago, balo said:

There is no written Thai law that says the money has to be seasoned for 3 months, we had a discussion about that before , show me a link in Thai , you will not find it. 

Only recommended by lawyers, embassies . 

 

Its still up to the immigration officer to approve your visa based on the provided documents. 800k in you account for a shorter period than 3 months, it happens all the time and I do not believe that practice will just dissappear . 

From the Thai Immigration website (https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22)

In the case of retirement:

Criteria for Consideration

The alien: (1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM). (2) Must be 50 years of age or over. (3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month; or (4) On the filing date, the applicant must have account  deposited  (saving / fixed account) in a bank in Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to the filing date; or

 

Doesn't sound like "only recommended by lawyer, embassies" to me.

[Kerryd]

13 hours ago, gunderhill said:

Invest 1  million in a 20 year Thai elite no questions asked  visa

 

9 hours ago, motaz said:

That would be 1/2 a million for 5 years or 2 mil for 20 years. 

 

Actually they have a new card now - the "Elite Superiority Extension Card" that has a 20 year term for 1 mil baht. (https://www.thailandelite.com/at-your-service/card/elite-superiority-extension-membership?locate=en)
The "Easy Access" card is 500k for 5 years.

Or put 800,000 baht into a Fixed term Savings Account with automatic annual renewal and then pay just 1,900 baht a year (for the Extension of Stay). 
The interest, as low as it is, pays for the Extension itself ! (I think I get about 1.5% per annum minus the tax. Still more than enough to pay for my Extension and for the Multi Re-entry permit I get every year.)
5 years down the road - still have an Extension and 800k(+) in the bank.

20 years down the road - still have an Extension and 800k(+) in the bank.

I also have the peace of mind knowing that if I should choose to move somewhere else, or have some kind of emergency, I have that cash available almost immediately. Unlike I would if I blew it all (and more) on a Thai Elite card.

[TKDfella]

19 hours ago, wgdanson said:

Never had Immigration in either Jomtien or Phitsanulok 'shit' on my application. If you have the correct amount of money, and the correct documentation....no problems. This new rule is has been made because you could tell the Brit Consulate anything you wanted about your gross UK income, and they would issue the signed letter, no questions asked. Now the Thai lot have got wise to this scam and are closing the loophole.

Well, this didn't happen to me when I used the combo method. I had to give the BE the qualifying letter from the UK pensions dept. along with the certificate of of monthly income from other sources. These documents had to display codes etc. so that BE could confirm if they so wished. Whether the BE actually did the checking, I don't know.

[TKDfella]

16 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

 

 

Actually they have a new card now - the "Elite Superiority Extension Card" that has a 20 year term for 1 mil baht. (https://www.thailandelite.com/at-your-service/card/elite-superiority-extension-membership?locate=en)
The "Easy Access" card is 500k for 5 years.

Or put 800,000 baht into a Fixed term Savings Account with automatic annual renewal and then pay just 1,900 baht a year (for the Extension of Stay). 
The interest, as low as it is, pays for the Extension itself ! (I think I get about 1.5% per annum minus the tax. Still more than enough to pay for my Extension and for the Multi Re-entry permit I get every year.)
5 years down the road - still have an Extension and 800k(+) in the bank.

20 years down the road - still have an Extension and 800k(+) in the bank.

I also have the peace of mind knowing that if I should choose to move somewhere else, or have some kind of emergency, I have that cash available almost immediately. Unlike I would if I blew it all (and more) on a Thai Elite card.

In principle I agree. What I wonder about is if and when the 800K will be increased to over 1 million. I have no evidence that it is even being considered so maybe 'wonder' is unnecessary.

[maddermax]

I read the announcement from the British Embassy which seems pretty clear.  They are not prepared to get of their asses and do the right thing for UK citizens, even those who have the necessary kosha proof of income documentation. Shameful!

Perhaps we should all move back to the UK and be a huge drain on social services?11

[phutoie2]

2 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

I think for Brits Myanmar will be a good option.

Go check it out lots to offer.

Really?, on another TV forum it was described as like Thailand but without electricity. ????

[HAKAPALITA]

How to these under 50 Thailand Vlogers get away with staying here for years, no work permit, or job. No money except from You Tube Tube and patrons. Yet they border bounce with impunity it seems. Bit of sour grapes on my part, having followed the Law from day one. Perhaps other Old Hands agree, some Young wont.. I find it an all round Piss Take of Authority and Spirit of living here. That one in Kamala is the epitamy of a Beggar and Opportunist.

[HAKAPALITA]

10 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

In principle I agree. What I wonder about is if and when the 800K will be increased to over 1 million. I have no evidence that it is even being considered so maybe 'wonder' is unnecessary.

Its happened before to old Friend. 400 to 800, just before i came here. Hes dead now, but because hed been on 400 for many years it didnt go up. I just leave 1Mill,  in case, never touched it, Mrs gets it anyway. Lifes a Bitch, id love to piss it up the wall.

[Hoppyone]

20 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes, you're right, "crackdowns" tend to be some PR noise for a little while, and then fade, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible for a crackdown someday to actually be real and persistent. 

I think beating a lot of drums is happening with coming elections next year

[bkk6060]

The agents would love to have it announced there will be a crackdown.

Because they can raise their rates big time explaining how dangerous it is.

All the while things will be pretty much the same.

[GinBoy2]

Thing is y'all know somewhere in the back of your mind, that nothing is permanent in Thailand

They could change everything in a second, for better or worse.

That's why I've always advocated to folks, while I like Thailand, burning bridges, and not having a bolt hole is a really really bad idea.

Hard to tell where this is going, and who knows if they then decide to change the 'money in the bank' requirement.

Thailand doesn't work like most of our home countries.

Some junta du jour could change everything, and whats ya gonna do?

[wayned]

I have only scanned the 32 pages of this thread,but I am American and the Income Affidavit that I get every year is a sworn motorized statement that you fill in the amount and "swear" under penalty of purgery that it is correct.   The US Embassy refuses to generates a document that "confirms" a retirees income  as they say that they have now ay of proving that the documents submitted were not false and do not have the staff and resources to research same.  I've lived here for 21 years and have used this method for my extensions, both retirement and extensions, and have never been asked by immigration to provide supporting information although I do carry it to the renewal interview.

 

Why can't the UK Embassy just change their policy to be in line with what the US Embassy does?

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Thing is y'all know somewhere in the back of your mind, that nothing is permanent in Thailand

They could change everything in a second, for better or worse.

That's why I've always advocated to folks, while I like Thailand, burning bridges, and not having a bolt hole is a really really bad idea.

Hard to tell where this is going, and who knows if they then decide to change the 'money in the bank' requirement.

Thailand doesn't work like most of our home countries.

Some junta du jour could change everything, and whats ya gonna do?

I don't know that.  I've been here during a war and have seen tanks on the streets a number of times.  It really doesn't take a brain trust to figure out if you are going to live in Thailand one should have a little cash.  Can you imagine living here without 25 grand in the bank?  I can't.