Revisiting Sihanoukville.

[thaiguzzi]

On 10/10/2018 at 3:59 PM, KhunHeineken said:

Please don't post things like "don't bother going."  I have booked my air tickets and hotel, so I am going.

Okey dokey.

There's always one.

So i'll be that one.......

"don't bother going"..............????

[KhunHeineken]

Photo 1 is what was Charlie Harper bar. 

 

Photo 2 is the little alley that used to go down to the beach.  The police box is still there but no police in there now.  That whole block of land all the way to the beach front is fenced off. 

 

Photo 3 is I did sneak a photo inside the gate of Photo 2.  Big block of land right on the beach.

 

Photo 4 is what has become of Pub Street.

 

Photo 5 is what has become of the very large block of land that was flood plain across from the Golden Lions roundabout.  It used to be very green and have a few buffalo grazing in there. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[phuketrichard]

 

[KhunHeineken]

Photo 1 is Mick & Craig's.  Had a coffee in there yesterday.  I spoke to the manager.  All staff are looking for a new job.  Mick & Craig's will be demolished next month. 

 

As with many of the photos I have posted, you can see big construction taking place, or newly completed buildings, in the background.  Little single story eateries are now sitting on valuable land and are getting squeezed out.

 

 

 

 

[taninthai]

Wow some nice info and pics,it was 8 years ago when I was last there the road to the beach was just a dirt road and as you went onto beach there was loads of bars to the right offering bbq every night,utopia could be a crazy night out ,very very different place now.

[KhunHeineken]

8 hours ago, taninthai said:

Wow some nice info and pics,it was 8 years ago when I was last there the road to the beach was just a dirt road and as you went onto beach there was loads of bars to the right offering bbq every night,utopia could be a crazy night out ,very very different place now.

Beach Road down to the pier has basically become a car park for the big casino hotels and small Chinese restaurants on that strip.

 

Zoom in on the Chinese writing on the signage down Beach Road. 

 

[KhunHeineken]

Photo 1 is what has become of The Square.

 

Photo 2 shows it's The Square because you can still see the roof of the little building that was The Square management office.

 

Photo 3 shows The Square will become The Queenco Hotel and Casino.  You have to zoom in on the sign.  The Square is a big block of land. 

 

 

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

No shortage of money here.  Yep, that is a Rolls Royce.

[VBF]

@KhunHeineken

Thanks very much for that very detailed report on "Snooky." Sadly, this is almost the same as what happened in Patong years ago.  Comparing the old and new pictures of the respective beach roads is very similar! Oddly, when i was in "Snooky" in 2011 , I went with a mate who used to live on Phuket and remember saying to him "You wait, this will go the same way as Phuket in a few years"  I take absolutely NO pleasure in being proven correct!  And, as was said above, now the main beach has been "developed," Otres and the others will surely suffer the same fate - just as happened on Phuket - the former "Pearl of the Andaman"

 

Sad, sad, sad....once again "They've paved paradise and put up a parking lot" (Joni Mitchell)

For me, I shan't bother revisiting "Snooky" - I shall just be pleased that I went when I did.

 

Purely out of academic interest, did you investigate The Beach Club Resort, on Tola Street as we discussed earlier in this thread?

 

Thanks again for the detailed update.... 

[phuketrichard]

HUH:

dont recall an Chinese moving into Patong, buying up land an building casinos>>

Patong beach road has been a real road for over 40 years

[KhunHeineken]

29 minutes ago, VBF said:

@KhunHeineken

Thanks very much for that very detailed report on "Snooky." Sadly, this is almost the same as what happened in Patong years ago.  Comparing the old and new pictures of the respective beach roads is very similar! Oddly, when i was in "Snooky" in 2011 , I went with a mate who used to live on Phuket and remember saying to him "You wait, this will go the same way as Phuket in a few years"  I take absolutely NO pleasure in being proven correct!  And, as was said above, now the main beach has been "developed," Otres and the others will surely suffer the same fate - just as happened on Phuket - the former "Pearl of the Andaman"

 

Sad, sad, sad....once again "They've paved paradise and put up a parking lot" (Joni Mitchell)

For me, I shan't bother revisiting "Snooky" - I shall just be pleased that I went when I did.

 

Purely out of academic interest, did you investigate The Beach Club Resort, on Tola Street as we discussed earlier in this thread?

 

Thanks again for the detailed update.... 

 

Photo 1 is what is happening at the old The Beach Club Resort. 

 

I have taken many photos and will be posting more in the future, as well as some of my observations, opinions, and what I have learnt, and I have learnt a lot.

 

It's not all bad here and I will post about it in the near future.

 

I understand what you say about Patong, but could you imagine if Thailand allowed casinos to be built?  There would be nothing stopping the same thing happening on prime real estate in Thailand.  

 

[VBF]

6 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

 

Photo 1 is what is happening at the old The Beach Club Resort. 

 

I have taken many photos and will be posting more in the future, as well as some of my observations, opinions, and what I have learnt, and I have learnt a lot.

 

It's not all bad here and I will post about it in the near future.

 

I understand what you say about Patong, but could you imagine if Thailand allowed casinos to be built?  There would be nothing stopping the same thing happening on prime real estate in Thailand.  

 

So it is - my mistake 

I take your points, but I still don't see myself revisiting either Patong or "Snooky". 

I shall continue to follow this thread anyway - get your observations and opinions and see what others think.

Cheers 

[KhunHeineken]

On 10/12/2018 at 10:46 PM, geisha said:

How about the French restaurant/bar/ beach called SUSADAY , across from the beach , left side as you go down to Ocheatal beach ?? Great food, Bruno’s a real cook, great fun hangout, hope it hasn’t gone, but don’t think so as I would have heard on the grapevine.The Chinese are ruining everything everywhere.

I might need some assistance with this one.

 

Was Susaday on the street just before you turn left to go to Pub Street, or just after the street you turn onto to got to Pub Street?  Either way, it's not there.

 

Photo 1 is where Susaday may have been.

 

Photo 2 is the same part of the street but from a different angle.

 

Photo 3 is the opposite part of the street.

 

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

34 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

HUH:

dont recall an Chinese moving into Patong, buying up land an building casinos>>

Patong beach road has been a real road for over 40 years

Beach Road at Serendipity Beach is a dead end.  It stops at the pier. 

 

Beach Road in Patong is a through road. 

[VBF]

2 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Beach Road at Serendipity Beach is a dead end.  It stops at the pier. 

 

Beach Road in Patong is a through road. 

Sorry (and also @phuketrichard)  I was thinking of Soi Bangla in Patong which I can remember when it was a dirt road leading to the beach road - 1985

(Imagine looking down Bangla from Rat-u-thit towards the beach)

So what I was indicating was the fact that both Patong and Snooky have effectively been ruined in much the same way by touristic over development, whether by Chinese greed or by Thai greed, sadly the result is much the same. For me, neither place is worth visiting any more - you may disagree, of course.

 

Also, most of Phuket Island has itself fallen victim to the over-development, as presumably will the other beaches in Snooky fairly soon.

Have I explained myself better this time?

 

[scotinsiam]

Great report KhunHeineken - looks like a massive building site. Do you think you will ever go back?

[phuketrichard]

10 hours ago, VBF said:

Sorry (and also @phuketrichard)  I was thinking of Soi Bangla in Patong which I can remember when it was a dirt road leading to the beach road - 1985

(Imagine looking down Bangla from Rat-u-thit towards the beach)

So what I was indicating was the fact that both Patong and Snooky have effectively been ruined in much the same way by touristic over development, whether by Chinese greed or by Thai greed, sadly the result is much the same. For me, neither place is worth visiting any more - you may disagree, of course.

 

Also, most of Phuket Island has itself fallen victim to the over-development, as presumably will the other beaches in Snooky fairly soon.

Have I explained myself better this time?

 

NOT true.  it was  paved road when i moved to Phuket, ( Patong. i lived on Nai Na road and it was partially dirt) in early 1985, ( think Nordic bungalows near the 2nd road, intersection on soi Bangla) From beach road thru to 2nd road

If what u say is true why is patong have so many people, shops, clubs, bars,restaurants, hotels etc etc and the ONLY shopping mall's in beach cities on the island?

 

I dont care for Patong at all, (except for my weekly visits to Junk Ceylon)

Its progress

[VBF]

4 hours ago, phuketrichard said:

NOT true.  it was  paved road when i moved to Phuket, ( Patong. i lived on Nai Na road and it was partially dirt) in early 1985, ( think Nordic bungalows near the 2nd road, intersection on soi Bangla) From beach road thru to 2nd road

If what u say is true why is patong have so many people, shops, clubs, bars,restaurants, hotels etc etc and the ONLY shopping mall's in beach cities on the island?

 

I dont care for Patong at all, (except for my weekly visits to Junk Ceylon)

Its progress

@phuketrichard

 

Here is a picture of Soi Bangla in April 1989 (just before Songkran). I know it is because "Fawlty Towers" was owned by a friend of mine who is a member of Phuket Hash House Harriers - named as "Sybil".????

 

 

That's what I meant by dirt road.

 

You must admit, that compared to then, Patong (and sadly much of Phuket) has been very badly overdeveloped.

I agree that it is what passes as progress....but for whom?

 

 

[balo]

36 minutes ago, VBF said:

That's what I meant by dirt road.

Looks much better than that stupid casinos. 

 

[KhunHeineken]

Help me out guys.  I am pretty sure The G'Day Mate Bar was one of these.  It's in the street number range but the new shops don't have their address on them.  I think it may be the shop with the yellow sign which is a real estate agent for Chinese. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 10/11/2018 at 9:45 PM, barmatt said:

I visited in April this year for the first time and will never return. Spent 4 days in Sihanoukville and that was 4 days too long, the place is as dump and over run by Chinese. We did manage to find decent places to eat mainly near the Golden Lion roundabout you will find a very good Italian restaurant "Olive & Olive" at the start of the road to the pier but beware of the huge flies that bother you while you eat. A previous posted mentioned The Big Easy which is also good I liked their pancakes.

For girly bars theres a cluster set off the road just before you get to the roundabout opposite.. a row of casinos. Its not very obvious to find but when you do it runs in a horseshoe shape and has a mix of mostly bars and some eateries. Some very nice girls here some demanding $100us LT which is crazy money for a Cambo girl considering thats a months salary for a normal Cambodian for one nights work. 

Pub Street is a dump and didnt see any girls of quality did a quick round and straight back out but ymmv.

 

Good luck.

Photo 1 Is this the complex you refer to?  They call it The New Square.  I have no idea why there is a sign saying Youth Center.  There is a nightclub attached to it.  I went there at night and there were hookers in various small bars but they all had very little to no customers inside.   

 

Photo 2 shows The Martini Bar.  I asked if it was the same bar that was on the beach and staff told me it was. 

[KhunHeineken]

10 hours ago, scotinsiam said:

Great report KhunHeineken - looks like a massive building site. Do you think you will ever go back?

Thanks.  Good question.  I have found my visit most interesting and have learned a lot about what is happening here and what the Chinese are getting up to here.  I have spoken to educated and mature Khmer people and have learned a lot from them, along with my observations.  I have not interacted with any Chinese people here, but I have confirmed the information I have received with a Chinese friend, however they do not live here.  My friend confirmed the information I have received is accurate when talking about Chinese gambling culture and their mindset and how they fund their gambling and move money around.  I am not saying I know everything about Sihanoukville but I think I can now speak about it with some knowledge.

 

I would never recommend this place as a holiday destination to anyone and I would certainly never stay a long time here now, let alone live here. 

 

I am off to the airport tomorrow morning and when I have more time I will post my thoughts and opinion on things here.

 

I don't wish to offend anyone and I am speaking generally, but as Thailand attracted millions of sex tourists, which caused thousand of bars to open, the Chinese are attracted by gambling, which is causing hundreds of casinos to open.

[KhunHeineken]

One of the worst things about Sihanoukville now are the roads.  I did not see one drop of rain when I was there.  In many cases, the water you see in pot holes has the smell of sewage.  I did not even try to cross the bigger pot hole roads and when I crossed the smaller pot hole roads I would sometimes get a bit of splash on my feet and so I would head to the nearest cafe and order a bottle of water or coffee and go straight to the toilet to use the bum gun and wash it off. 

 

The opposite is the dry roads and the dust it makes.  I'm talking choking and eye watering dust and this is just from the roads, then there is the dust made by all the construction rubble laying around and being moved around.  It's mainly concrete dust.  I did develop a minor sore throat from the dust when riding around.  I am sure it causes many eye infections and problems with breathing.  I can imagine what happens when it rains on the dust bowls.  The roads would be hard to get any traction. 

 

Photo 1 is a typical section of a damaged road with water in it.  It's not hard to see why it's damaged with the heavy trucks on the roads in Sihanoukville now. 

 

Photo 2 is a typical section of a dry and dusty road.  Again, you can see to road being damaged by big construction trucks.  This road has had big rocks put in it because it must have been so deep. 

 

The damaged main roads have caused people to take back streets.  These street were never made to take such traffic.  On many roads they have dumped rubble to block the road off to cars and trucks, only allowing motorcycles to pass. 

 

Photo 3 is one of the small back streets used to get around the damaged main roads. 

 

 

[geisha]

Khunheineken , hi, no, Susaday was on Ocheatal beach road, opposite the beach where they also had beach chairs and a bar.Ive found out that they closed down and left , back to France. Was talking to a Cambodian friend and he said what’s happened in Sihanoukville is terrible. Over run with Chinese. 

[KhunHeineken]

14 hours ago, geisha said:

Khunheineken , hi, no, Susaday was on Ocheatal beach road, opposite the beach where they also had beach chairs and a bar.Ive found out that they closed down and left , back to France. Was talking to a Cambodian friend and he said what’s happened in Sihanoukville is terrible. Over run with Chinese. 

That is Ochheuteal Beach Road.  ????

 

I think it was in one of the Chinese eateries, possibly the one with the pink colored sign. If I remember correctly, there was also a restaurant with a name like Happy Pizza or some other Pizza name nearby. 

[KhunHeineken]

Photo 1 is how a lot of the Chinese are being transported.  There are hundreds of these on the roads in Sihanoukville.  All of them new.  Mostly Black, white and grey.  Some have a casino's signage, some don't.  They pick up the Chinese gamblers from the airport and take them to the casino where they are staying, and wherever they want to go around Sihanoukville.  They are on the road 27/7 and driver pretty crazy.  

 

Photo 2 is of one of the larger Chinese restaurants.  Many have fresh seafood.  This one was due to open shortly.  2 story place.  I have posted photos of some of the smaller eateries. 

 

 

[wump]

On 11/9/2018 at 1:37 PM, KhunHeineken said:

Thanks.  Good question.  I have found my visit most interesting and have learned a lot about what is happening here and what the Chinese are getting up to here.  I have spoken to educated and mature Khmer people and have learned a lot from them, along with my observations.  I have not interacted with any Chinese people here, but I have confirmed the information I have received with a Chinese friend, however they do not live here.  My friend confirmed the information I have received is accurate when talking about Chinese gambling culture and their mindset and how they fund their gambling and move money around.  I am not saying I know everything about Sihanoukville but I think I can now speak about it with some knowledge.

 

I would never recommend this place as a holiday destination to anyone and I would certainly never stay a long time here now, let alone live here. 

 

I am off to the airport tomorrow morning and when I have more time I will post my thoughts and opinion on things here.

 

I don't wish to offend anyone and I am speaking generally, but as Thailand attracted millions of sex tourists, which caused thousand of bars to open, the Chinese are attracted by gambling, which is causing hundreds of casinos to open.

Could you elaborate a bit more? Sounds like all the gambling investment or the gambling itself is funded by mafia money or black money?

[KhunHeineken]

12 minutes ago, wump said:

Could you elaborate a bit more? Sounds like all the gambling investment or the gambling itself is funded by mafia money or black money?

I have no doubt a lot of Chinese want to get their money out of China.  That's no secret.  I am sure the construction of these casinos involved some money laundering and being able to get the money out of China, which China has clamped down on recently.  Many countries are experiencing this, not just Cambodia.

 

There are some young Chinese that put $5USD into a slot machine and drink and eat for free and have a look around Sihanoukville.  You can drink and eat for free if you are playing the slot machines. The food is buffet style and the drink can be alcohol.  So it's a cheap holiday for them, if they can control themselves.

 

The more serious gamblers deposit money into Chinese bank accounts, and then they are given casino chips in Sihanoukville.  They can play with the chips, or cash the chips into USD and they have got their money out of China.  They can open a Cambodia bank account and deposit, or open a bank account with one of 3 Chinese banks that are there now and deposit.  From there, they can move the money to any country they like. 

 

I also learned about WeChat Pay.  I have never heard of it before but it is big, very big, for payments.  I even saw a Chinese guy buy something in a shop and pay with WeChat Pay.  He takes the item from the shop, but the payment goes into a Chinese bank account, instantly, and with no fees.  I have to research this more.  I have no idea how there can be no fees. 

 

Scroll down to see WeChat payment services.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeChat

 

I was told the money exchange places also swap WeChat Pay for USD.  So you go in there, take out your phone, send money from your Chinese bank account in China to the exchange shop's Chinese bank account in China, using WEChat Pay, and they give you the equivalent amount in USD.

 

Photo 1 is a Chinese bank in Sihanoukville.

 

Photo 2 is a Chinese money exchange shop.  I don't know if this specific shop does the WeChat Payment exchange but was told many did, and I did see some Chinese in some. 

 

 

 

 

[geisha]

Good lord, all I can say is poor Cambodia, what a future , and let’s hope that this never arrives in Thailand ! 

[KhunHeineken]

17 hours ago, geisha said:

Good lord, all I can say is poor Cambodia, what a future , and let’s hope that this never arrives in Thailand ! 

It's not all bad.  Many Khmer people are riding the wave and making some good money out of the Chinese.  In most cases, they are renting their houses to them for thousands of USD per month.  

 

Also these casinos are providing a lot of employment for locals.

 

Photo 1 is some young Khmer casino staff on a meal break.  This photo shows the casinos do employ local people.

 

Photo 2 is a sign advertising for local staff.  You can see there are several positions available in each casino. There are several of these signs around.

 

I was told by an employee that they had to put up with some terrible behavior from some Chinese gamblers but the money was good enough that they put up with it.

 

Thailand already has a lot of Chinese tourists.  I don't know for how long Thailand can resist the temptation of casinos.  It would add another holiday activity for tourists and make a lot of money for the country, and if we are talking about big gamblers, and big Chinese gamblers in high roller rooms, we are talking about serious money going into Thailand's economy. 

 

The difference would be Thailand keeps the profits because they own the casinos but in Sihanoukville the Chinese own the casino and keep the profits.

 

Vietnam seems to have a good model where Vietnamese people are not allowed into the casinos unless they can prove they earn over $450USD a month, and even then they have to pay about a $50USD cover charge to get it.  This stops social harm to local people through problem gambling by people who can not afford to gamble in the first place.