Revisiting Sihanoukville.

[xylophone]

Went to Snooky a couple of times about 6 years ago and found it quite laid-back and quaint in its own way, and had thoughts that it might provide a "bolt hole" if things in Thailand turned to custard...……..but not now looking at the pics and reports.

 

As someone has said...……"Pave paradise and put up a parking lot" (Joni Mitchell). So sad.

 

And thanks for the great feedback KhunHeineken, much appreciated.

[KhunHeineken]

19 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Went to Snooky a couple of times about 6 years ago and found it quite laid-back and quaint in its own way, and had thoughts that it might provide a "bolt hole" if things in Thailand turned to custard...……..but not now looking at the pics and reports.

 

As someone has said...……"Pave paradise and put up a parking lot" (Joni Mitchell). So sad.

 

And thanks for the great feedback KhunHeineken, much appreciated.

Thanks for the kind words.  I took a heap of photos so if you have a request, maybe I took a photo of it.  Same offer to other members. 

 

I would not recommend Sihanoukville to live in now, no matter how bad Thailand got. 

 

I saw it when it was laid back and have now seen it as a busy beach side city.  I am not racist.  I don't care where the people come from.  They could be from Europe, The UK, The Middle East, The Americas or Russia, but it's just busy busy busy and the main tourists, actually pretty much the only tourists there now just happen to be Chinese and the Chinese love to gamble.  I think there would only be a handful of foreigners left living in Sihanoukville now and they are fast losing places to hang out in, so a foreigner living in Sihanoukville now would be living a solitary lifestyle.

 

Down the road is Kep / Kampot but this would be too quiet for me.  Another member has posted a lot of the foreigners moved down there from Sihanoukville so maybe they will set up a little enclave there.

 

If you need a back up if Thailand goes bad, maybe you can check out Vietnam. 

[KhunHeineken]

Bumping this thread.

 

Has anyone been to Sihanoukville lately? 

 

Any up to date information?

 

Any opinions or thoughts? 

[scotinsiam]

I was in Phnom Penh last week, a lot of expats I spoke to who live there said not to go back to Sihanoukville as it is a building site and crammed full of Chinese.

[HLover]

4 minutes ago, scotinsiam said:

I was in Phnom Penh last week, a lot of expats I spoke to who live there said not to go back to Sihanoukville as it is a building site and crammed full of Chinese.

I heard the same advice.

[Sheryl]

Word is that Kampot will be next.

 

I think many of the offshore islands are still OK for now.

[scotinsiam]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

Word is that Kampot will be next.

 

I think many of the offshore islands are still OK for now.

I have a friend who had a boat building business in Thailand (near Sattahip) for about 18 years - he has now moved to Kampot due to the regulations here now and strong Baht.

[Sheryl]

As did many of the former farang residents of SHV.

 

But the Chinese are apparently eying it for big "develeopment" so days may be numbered for Kampot. Unless of course the Chinese economy tanks beforehand.

[KhunBENQ]

3 hours ago, scotinsiam said:

I was in Phnom Penh last week, a lot of expats I spoke to who live there said not to go back to Sihanoukville as it is a building site and crammed full of Chinese.

Some two week ago I saw a TV documentary about SHV.

Painful and hard to believe.

Colonized.

 

[RickG16]

3 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

Some two week ago I saw a TV documentary about SHV.

Painful and hard to believe.

Colonized.

 

Any chance of a link to the doc?

[KhunBENQ]

16 hours ago, RickG16 said:

Any chance of a link to the doc?

Well, I don't want to keep you away from it but it is in German.

The pictures still might give an impression?

It's from a three part documentary about "Chinas Grip to the West"/"New Silk Road".

 

SHV appears in the first part, starting 8:20 min.

https://www.zdf.de/dokumentation/dokumentation-sonstige/die-neue-seidenstrasse-teil1-100.html

 

"they have taken over our city"

Workers, material, plans from China.

CORRUPTION!

 

Rental prices explode.

Locals can't afford to live in the city.

More drugs, more violence.

80 casinos (forbidden for the locals).

[RickG16]

8 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Well, I don't want to keep you away from it but it is in German.

The pictures still might give an impression?

It's from a three part documentary about "Chinas Grip to the West"/"New Silk Road".

 

SHV appears in the first part, starting 8:20 min.

https://www.zdf.de/dokumentation/dokumentation-sonstige/die-neue-seidenstrasse-teil1-100.html

 

"they have taken over our city"

Workers, material, plans from China.

CORRUPTION!

 

Rental prices explode.

Locals can't afford to live in the city.

More drugs, more violence.

80 casinos (forbidden for the locals).

Thanks... I'll give it a go with subtitles! 

[canthai55]

Just got back from a visit with a friend who had a business on Otres 2 until 2 years ago.

Place is swarming with Chinese - and not tourists. Building, buying ...

His friends still there - who did not sell out - now have property worth Riels not dollars.

Nothing yet re: the wave hitting Kampot, where he now lives. Altho no good beaches there so they may pass it by.

[KhunHeineken]

I know the One Belt Policy thing, so I understand the expansion of the shipping port and other big infrastructure things, but all these casinos and hotels are private, not Chinese Government.

 

What I don't get is, why the Chinese Government would either want, or allow, all of this to take place, for the Chinese people, but outside of China. 

 

They normally like to keep the flow on effects within China.

 

Of course, a lot of profit goes back to China, but if it was in China, like Macau, every Yuan would stay within China's economy. 

 

Maybe it's simply because there are some beaches there.  Who knows? 

[adammike]

On 2/6/2019 at 4:04 PM, scotinsiam said:

I was in Phnom Penh last week, a lot of expats I spoke to who live there said not to go back to Sihanoukville as it is a building site and crammed full of Chinese.

The resident PP ex-pats have always looked down on Sihanoukville and the foreign residents there,usually they call it Shitsville and the guys who live there Alcoholic, junkies,pedo's.This time the Shitsville may be right.

[KhunHeineken]

Does anyone know any expats that moved from SHV down the road to Kep / Kampot?

 

Have they set up a little enclave down there?

 

I never got down there on this visit.

[Kiwisailor]

Certainly a few there when we were there in August. Most of the Chinese investment in Kampot seems to be over towards Kep although we did see a couple of Kampot building sites along the river with the distinctive gates and hoardings that typified the Chinese construction sites in Snooky.

 

We also noticed at Koh Rong (off shore island near Snooky) a brand new concrete wharf under construction. Presently all supplies are landed on the wooden passenger/fishing boat wharves or the beach. They are then moved around the island by bike, trike, sidecar or hand trolley. The new wharf will allow construction equipment to be landed and roads built. Most hotels/guest houses at present are max 2 storey wooden buildings, which will change once roads are built.

 

This year we will skip Cambodia and go to India instead.

 

[balo]

Or maybe Vietnam is a much better option.

[KhunHeineken]

On 2/12/2019 at 9:01 PM, Kiwisailor said:

Certainly a few there when we were there in August. Most of the Chinese investment in Kampot seems to be over towards Kep although we did see a couple of Kampot building sites along the river with the distinctive gates and hoardings that typified the Chinese construction sites in Snooky.

 

We also noticed at Koh Rong (off shore island near Snooky) a brand new concrete wharf under construction. Presently all supplies are landed on the wooden passenger/fishing boat wharves or the beach. They are then moved around the island by bike, trike, sidecar or hand trolley. The new wharf will allow construction equipment to be landed and roads built. Most hotels/guest houses at present are max 2 storey wooden buildings, which will change once roads are built.

 

This year we will skip Cambodia and go to India instead.

 

Have the businesses that were in SHV moved down there to cater for them?  What sort of accommodation are they in down there? 

 

Where are you going in India? Goa, perhaps?  

[phycokiller]

On 2/8/2019 at 3:17 PM, KhunHeineken said:

Does anyone know any expats that moved from SHV down the road to Kep / Kampot?

 

Have they set up a little enclave down there?

 

I never got down there on this visit.

seems quite a few moved to kampot

[KhunHeineken]

On 2/17/2019 at 6:51 PM, phycokiller said:

seems quite a few moved to kampot

So I've heard, but was wondering what they have by way of long term accommodation, restaurants, and bars down there, for expats.  None of them are posting on TV. 

[Kiwisailor]

19 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

So I've heard, but was wondering what they have by way of long term accommodation, restaurants, and bars down there, for expats.  None of them are posting on TV. 

Not sure about long term accom but we stay at Kampot Hostel for 10-12 USD/night. A/C, TV and large swimming pool 5 mins walk from town (off season).

 

Plenty of longterm expats in Rusty 2 and Kampot Hilton Bars - they seem to be happy with there lot there.

Some links

Kampot Survival Guide

https://sites.google.com/view/ksgonline/

https://www.facebook.com/CambodiaExpatsOnline/

http://www.khmer440.com/chat_forum/index.php

https://cambodiaexpatsonline.com/?sid=1334d3961dd06817bf22908085f0ad6e

Some amateur analysis of deaths in Cambodia

http://www.khmer440.com/chat_forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=62113&sid=e6458d4ea91de44feae8a87a206bac27

[KhunHeineken]

On 2/21/2019 at 2:37 PM, Kiwisailor said:

Not sure about long term accom but we stay at Kampot Hostel for 10-12 USD/night. A/C, TV and large swimming pool 5 mins walk from town (off season).

 

Plenty of longterm expats in Rusty 2 and Kampot Hilton Bars - they seem to be happy with there lot there.

Some links

Kampot Survival Guide

https://sites.google.com/view/ksgonline/

https://www.facebook.com/CambodiaExpatsOnline/

http://www.khmer440.com/chat_forum/index.php

https://cambodiaexpatsonline.com/?sid=1334d3961dd06817bf22908085f0ad6e

Some amateur analysis of deaths in Cambodia

http://www.khmer440.com/chat_forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=62113&sid=e6458d4ea91de44feae8a87a206bac27

Last time I was in Kampot in didn't see much by way of condo or apartments built for expats. Might visit Kampot later in the year and have another look around. 

[Tomtomtom69]

I don't think any businesses would prevent westerners from entering. Why? Doesn't make any sense. However, no westerner in his right mind would go to a grimy, dirty Chinese restaurant located inside a Chinese casino in Sihanoukville with a menu only in Chinese or half Chinese/half Khmer.

[Tomtomtom69]

On 2/7/2019 at 3:45 PM, KhunHeineken said:

I know the One Belt Policy thing, so I understand the expansion of the shipping port and other big infrastructure things, but all these casinos and hotels are private, not Chinese Government.

 

What I don't get is, why the Chinese Government would either want, or allow, all of this to take place, for the Chinese people, but outside of China.  

 

They normally like to keep the flow on effects within China.

 

Of course, a lot of profit goes back to China, but if it was in China, like Macau, every Yuan would stay within China's economy.  

 

Maybe it's simply because there are some beaches there.  Who knows? 

I don't think they care, it's more about Chinese people fed up living in China. The population is huge, competition for everything is huge and jobs are scarce so if given the chance to go somewhere like Cambodia, they will. Chinese seem to be able to live just about anywhere, even in the middle of Africa, just as long as they can escape China. Some of the "escapees" just so happen to be criminals, while others are concerned about increasing government repression, others still feel they have a chance at doing business that they wouldn't be able to do inside of China.

[Tomtomtom69]

On 10/12/2018 at 10:54 AM, KhunHeineken said:

From what I have been told, The Square is gone.  It has been built over.  Several sources have told me this. 

 

Dolphin Bar, and all the bars to the left of the pier are gone.  My favorite was Martini Bar for a swim and some lunch.  I was told this is because the Chinese will be building some type of hotel or resort in which they will probably say the beach in front is a private beach.  

 

I have been told all the bars on Victory Hill, except for a few, have been bought by the Chinese and westerners are not allowed in them.  So bars may still be there, but may as well not be if you are a westerner.  I will also check that out. 

 

I was told Pub Street or Golden Lion Plaza is gone, as in, not dead, as in, built over gone.  Some posts on this thread conflict with that so I will check it out. 

 

As for the hookers in the town, whether they be in a bar as staff or freelancing, many freelances around South East Asia are using phone apps now, so they don't have to go to nightclub. 

 

Most of the information I post comes from a guy who lives there, but was looking to leave, and I met him on his search for a new place.  He was last there about 6 weeks ago and has since gone back to sell up and move. 

Why the racism against westerners (we are talking about Cambodia here and funnily enough, it's Chinese, not Cambodians who are the racist ones here)? In China, you are welcome to visit any bar you want without any prejudice and will probably be welcomed with open arms by the locals. I don't get it.

 

What I do get is that few westerners would be interested in going to a dingy Chinese bar in Cambodia anyway, especially since it's likely no one will speak English and there's even a chance no one will speak Khmer. However, to say that one lonely westerner in the unlikely even he would even entertain the idea of going to a crappy Chinese bar, who is outnumbered 100 to 1 should be banned, is ridiculous.

 

Actually, most westerners wouldn't even go to these kinds of places if they were paid to go. So I take that back. Westerners are "banned" but wouldn't go in the first place...kinda doesn't make sense.

[Tomtomtom69]

On 10/14/2018 at 11:49 AM, KhunHeineken said:

I have been told many Sihanoukville expats have relocated to Thailand and Vietnam, with some moving down the road to Kampot / Kep.  I'll ask around, but have been told the higher prices are now pushing out the local people as well.  It might be difficult to find anyone that has been there for a length of time. 

Doesn't surprise me. Lots of moaners on here complaining about "farang not wanted in Thailand" but the reality is Thailand is still heaven compared to Sihanoukville (and in many ways, Cambodia in general) and when things like this happen, foreigners come back here. Thailand's strict foreigner business rules have meant that it has escaped any part of the country turning into another Sihanoukville. Which I think is a good thing. Thailand will probably always remain the jewel of mainland SE Asia now with Laos also becoming a Chinese vassal state (although at least not in the way Sihanoukville has become).

 

Vietnam is also a good choice and they have successfully kept the Chinese at bay. Sihanoukville 2.0 could never happen in Vietnam.

[Tomtomtom69]

On 11/9/2018 at 7:07 PM, KhunHeineken said:

Thanks.  Good question.  I have found my visit most interesting and have learned a lot about what is happening here and what the Chinese are getting up to here.  I have spoken to educated and mature Khmer people and have learned a lot from them, along with my observations.  I have not interacted with any Chinese people here, but I have confirmed the information I have received with a Chinese friend, however they do not live here.  My friend confirmed the information I have received is accurate when talking about Chinese gambling culture and their mindset and how they fund their gambling and move money around.  I am not saying I know everything about Sihanoukville but I think I can now speak about it with some knowledge.

 

I would never recommend this place as a holiday destination to anyone and I would certainly never stay a long time here now, let alone live here. 

 

I am off to the airport tomorrow morning and when I have more time I will post my thoughts and opinion on things here.

 

I don't wish to offend anyone and I am speaking generally, but as Thailand attracted millions of sex tourists, which caused thousand of bars to open, the Chinese are attracted by gambling, which is causing hundreds of casinos to open.

Chinese men are also attracted by sex. Surely most of these casinos have sex workers (probably from China, but possibly also places like Vietnam) available for those Chinese that desire them. I'm sure of this.

[Tomtomtom69]

On 11/16/2018 at 11:00 AM, KhunHeineken said:

It's not all bad.  Many Khmer people are riding the wave and making some good money out of the Chinese.  In most cases, they are renting their houses to them for thousands of USD per month.  

 

Also these casinos are providing a lot of employment for locals.

 

Photo 1 is some young Khmer casino staff on a meal break.  This photo shows the casinos do employ local people.

 

Photo 2 is a sign advertising for local staff.  You can see there are several positions available in each casino. There are several of these signs around.

 

I was told by an employee that they had to put up with some terrible behavior from some Chinese gamblers but the money was good enough that they put up with it.

 

Thailand already has a lot of Chinese tourists.  I don't know for how long Thailand can resist the temptation of casinos.  It would add another holiday activity for tourists and make a lot of money for the country, and if we are talking about big gamblers, and big Chinese gamblers in high roller rooms, we are talking about serious money going into Thailand's economy. 

 

The difference would be Thailand keeps the profits because they own the casinos but in Sihanoukville the Chinese own the casino and keep the profits.

 

Vietnam seems to have a good model where Vietnamese people are not allowed into the casinos unless they can prove they earn over $450USD a month, and even then they have to pay about a $50USD cover charge to get it.  This stops social harm to local people through problem gambling by people who can not afford to gamble in the first place. 

 

There is a difference...Chinese tourists in Thailand, although there are many calibers of tourists are in general better educated, better behaved than those in Sihanoukville. They come to Thailand for various reasons including shopping, seeing the sights including the beaches etc. Nowhere in Thailand do I feel the Chinese "own" the place over any other nationality. Not even in Pattaya or Phuket. Thailand is overwhelmingly Thai and even if you go to Yaowarat (China town) it's Thai-Chinese and not Chinese-Chinese. Thailand has good Chinese, Sihanoukville attracts the mafia, the criminals, the lowest of the low Chinese. That's the difference. So despite all the "good" you speak of, most of it isn't looking very positive for Sihanoukville and for Cambodians and expats still living there.

 

Apart from maybe one big casino located on an island with very strict operating/licensing conditions, I don't think Thailand should explore the possibility of allowing legalized gambling. However, the Vietnamese model could work to some extent.

[Tomtomtom69]

On 11/16/2018 at 11:37 AM, KhunHeineken said:

Thanks for the kind words.  I took a heap of photos so if you have a request, maybe I took a photo of it.  Same offer to other members. 

 

I would not recommend Sihanoukville to live in now, no matter how bad Thailand got. 

 

I saw it when it was laid back and have now seen it as a busy beach side city.  I am not racist.  I don't care where the people come from.  They could be from Europe, The UK, The Middle East, The Americas or Russia, but it's just busy busy busy and the main tourists, actually pretty much the only tourists there now just happen to be Chinese and the Chinese love to gamble.  I think there would only be a handful of foreigners left living in Sihanoukville now and they are fast losing places to hang out in, so a foreigner living in Sihanoukville now would be living a solitary lifestyle. 

  

Down the road is Kep / Kampot but this would be too quiet for me.  Another member has posted a lot of the foreigners moved down there from Sihanoukville so maybe they will set up a little enclave there. 

  

If you need a back up if Thailand goes bad, maybe you can check out Vietnam.  

are you saying all the western backpackers are gone now?

 

I last went to Snooky in the latter part of 2017. Stayed a night at the respectable Sokha Beach resort. Some Chinese were staying there (the more respectable types not the gambling ones) but otherwise saw a large mixture of nationalities. There was even a Russian staff member. Same thing on Koh Rong Samloen, one Russian lady working at one of the beach bars there. Lots of backpackers, some Chinese package tourists, even some Thais. This on a trip in 2016. Already saw evidence of casino construction then, mostly in the port area to the west of the city - quite a number of casinos already operational. Around the ferry terminal to Koh Rong and other places towards the eastern beaches not many Chinese. Don't know about now...