Prenup not accepted at Laksi

[Rudyv]

Hello,

 

Today I married my Thai girlfriend at the Lak Si District Office. One week ago I created a Prenuptial Agreement (prenup) and had it printed out 3 times, one for my wife, one for myself, and one for the district office. It's a 17 page contract in both Thai and English and it was ready to sign. But they didn't accept it because it should be seen/signed by my embassy first. The official at Lak Si didn't even look at the contract, she only asked "is it signed by your embassy?", and my answer was "No".

 

I never read or hear anything about this before, no one on this forum or on the internet talked about it before that it should be signed by an embassy first. So it was very frustrated for me, and now I don't have a happy feeling about my wedding.

 

Do some of you have the same experience?

 

Maybe I can understand that the last page in the contract, about the assets that I have on my bank account in my home country should be checked my by embassy first for whether it's right or not. However it didn't hear or read about this before. And it was OK for me to remove this page from the Prenuptial Agreement, because I know that everything before marriage remains yours and everything after the wedding will be divided equally. But more import for me are all the other pages in the contract, for example that I will not be responsible for loans that she makes without my notice, or rules about our joint bank account, or about children etc.

 

The guy at the desk, the desk when you enter the building where they check if all your papers are right, so even before you get a number and wait in the queue, he already told us that the prenup should be signed by my embassy first. But he also told us, we can marry now and submit the prenup later, but I don't believe this, because everywhere you read that it should be submit on the same day that you register your marriage.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Rudyv

[colinneil]

Rudyv what is the point of a prenup,?

You are in Thailand not the US, if you future wife runs up any debts you are liable, whether or not you have a prenup.

You honestly think any Thai would honour a prenup?

If you think that you are in the wrong country.

[Rudyv]

7 minutes ago, colinneil said:

Rudyv what is the point of a prenup,?

You are in Thailand not the US, if you future wife runs up any debts you are liable, whether or not you have a prenup.

You honestly think any Thai would honour a prenup?

If you think that you are in the wrong country.

At least my girlfriend would. It should scare her off to do so. ????

But besides that, I hear many personal stories from guys who were lucky with a good prenup.

[colinneil]

15 minutes ago, Rudyv said:

At least my girlfriend would. It should scare her off to do so. ????

But besides that, I hear many personal stories from guys who were lucky with a good prenup.

Dream on pal, you are living in LA-LA land.

Edited October 12, 2018 by colinneil

[Rudyv]

34 minutes ago, colinneil said:

Dream on pal, you are living in LA-LA land.

I feel sorry for your bad experience or experiences. But that is not where my question is about.

 

Is there someone with a real answer to my question?

Edited October 12, 2018 by Rudyv

[Juan B Tong]

Hey, official wants it chopped by your embo; get it chopped by your embo if you want him to accept it.

 

Official wants a photo of your cat, get him a photo of your cat.

 

Or forget about it.

 

[wmlc]

They are asking you to certify the agreemenr at the embassy. This is because you are a foreigner. Perhaps next time ask some questions such as “Why do you need it signed by my embassy? What do you need them to verify on the agreement? It baffles me that you just listen to someone saying it needs to be signed. That’s hogwash. It needs to be certified by your embassy. 

[Hayduke]

 

If it’s true that this document is not legal and binding unless endorsed/certified by your embassy…then the guy at the District Office may have just done you a very big favor.

 

 

[Toscano]

We foreign men are very naive when we come to Thailand and fall in love with a beautiful Thai girl/woman . We do not realize , even if warned , that Thais are only interested in our money ; however much they appear to love in other ways money is their chief objective .

My advice to foreign men is don't marry ; if you come to live in Thailand get a retirement visa ; if you have plenty of money you can generously look after the needs of your girlfriend and her family without committing to marriage . If you must marry to please the girlfriend's family , a simple Thai wedding will do with No Amphur . In the event of things not working out , arguments !!! , gambling debts etc. , you can pack your bags and leave . Better to rent , lease , or live in the girlfriend's house than buy , do not spend a lot of money to buy land and build a house . The wealth you have in your own country is yours , don't tell about it or bring it to Thailand more than Your actual needs . It is all very well having prenuptuals , but in the event of a divorce it is not so easy to find a lawyer who will respect and protect your prenuptuals , Thailand doesn't operate like your home country . Make sure you keep safely documents and receipts of major expenditures in Thailand .

[tagalong]

Talk about "Ding Bats" in this country.   Why! Pray tell! Does the embassy av to sign it...

With all the never ending hassles married farang face here, I realized it was a waste of time buying a book, years ago, when one can join the library..

[Tony125]

You can write what you want in a prenup however if a divorce comes up the court can overturn any parts of the agreement it considers blatantly unfair to the parties or that is not legal.

[Tony125]

34 minutes ago, Toscano said:

We foreign men are very naive when we come to Thailand and fall in love with a beautiful Thai girl/woman . We do not realize , even if warned , that Thais are only interested in our money ; however much they appear to love in other ways money is their chief objective .

My advice to foreign men is don't marry ; if you come to live in Thailand get a retirement visa ; if you have plenty of money you can generously look after the needs of your girlfriend and her family without committing to marriage . If you must marry to please the girlfriend's family , a simple Thai wedding will do with No Amphur . In the event of things not working out , arguments !!! , gambling debts etc. , you can pack your bags and leave . Better to rent , lease , or live in the girlfriend's house than buy , do not spend a lot of money to buy land and build a house . The wealth you have in your own country is yours , don't tell about it or bring it to Thailand more than Your actual needs . It is all very well having prenuptuals , but in the event of a divorce it is not so easy to find a lawyer who will respect and protect your prenuptuals , Thailand doesn't operate like your home country . Make sure you keep safely documents and receipts of major expenditures in Thailand .

Very selfish way of thinking. So when you die (as most of us will ) long before your GF if things have worked out and she has taken care of you for many years , had your kids , taken care of you in sickness and in health she is left with no pension (because you were not legally married to her) no insurance and none of your assets. Nice guy--NOT.

I know  German guy in Pattaya in my village 88 years old died a few months ago. Left his wife 68 years old with no insurance and no pension. She now is looking to sell their house as she does not have any money to live on, sad situation.

Edited October 13, 2018 by Tony125

[theguyfromanotherforum]

More quality expats....

[inThailand]

7 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

Very selfish way of thinking. So when you die as most of us will long before your GF if things have worked out and she has taken care of you for many years , had your kids , taken care of you in sickness and in health she is left with no pension (because you were not legally married to her) no insurance and none of your assets. Nice guy--NOT.

You don't have to marry her to take care of her. Many of us have a Thai Will that does just that, but has the ability to be canceled if things go sideways. A much a better approach in this environment. 

[rwill]

They probably just want a notary stamp.

[Srikcir]

17 hours ago, Rudyv said:

she only asked "is it signed by your embassy?"

Unlikely to happen.

Recent TV discussions on proving income for visa purposes indicates some embassies do not and will not certify correctness of claimed financial assets. At best the Embassy or Consulate typically assumes no responsibility for the truth or falsity of the representations that appear in the affidavit. Only the identity of the individual making the statement is validated.

You might try the Minister of Foreign Affairs that's near Lak Si for certification. But see below:

17 hours ago, Rudyv said:

Today I married my Thai girlfriend at the Lak Si District Office. One week ago I created a Prenuptial Agreement (prenup)

You can't have a pre-nup if you're now officially married.

You cannot contract rights with your wife.

 

[jgarbo]

16 hours ago, Rudyv said:

At least my girlfriend would. It should scare her off to do so. ????

But besides that, I hear many personal stories from guys who were lucky with a good prenup.

Thais scared? You have a lot to learn. And it will be painful. Thais are fearless, specially the women.

[mlmcleod]

1 hour ago, Toscano said:

We foreign men are very naive when we come to Thailand and fall in love with a beautiful Thai girl/woman . We do not realize , even if warned , that Thais are only interested in our money ; however much they appear to love in other ways money is their chief objective .

My advice to foreign men is don't marry ; if you come to live in Thailand get a retirement visa ; if you have plenty of money you can generously look after the needs of your girlfriend and her family without committing to marriage . If you must marry to please the girlfriend's family , a simple Thai wedding will do with No Amphur . In the event of things not working out , arguments !!! , gambling debts etc. , you can pack your bags and leave . Better to rent , lease , or live in the girlfriend's house than buy , do not spend a lot of money to buy land and build a house . The wealth you have in your own country is yours , don't tell about it or bring it to Thailand more than Your actual needs . It is all very well having prenuptuals , but in the event of a divorce it is not so easy to find a lawyer who will respect and protect your prenuptuals , Thailand doesn't operate like your home country . Make sure you keep safely documents and receipts of major expenditures in Thailand .

This is the very best advice I have seen on Thaivisa!

 

Please don't get mad, it's just my opinion!????

[Wake Up]

1 hour ago, Toscano said:

We foreign men are very naive when we come to Thailand and fall in love with a beautiful Thai girl/woman . We do not realize , even if warned , that Thais are only interested in our money ; however much they appear to love in other ways money is their chief objective .

My advice to foreign men is don't marry ; if you come to live in Thailand get a retirement visa ; if you have plenty of money you can generously look after the needs of your girlfriend and her family without committing to marriage . If you must marry to please the girlfriend's family , a simple Thai wedding will do with No Amphur . In the event of things not working out , arguments !!! , gambling debts etc. , you can pack your bags and leave . Better to rent , lease , or live in the girlfriend's house than buy , do not spend a lot of money to buy land and build a house . The wealth you have in your own country is yours , don't tell about it or bring it to Thailand more than Your actual needs . It is all very well having prenuptuals , but in the event of a divorce it is not so easy to find a lawyer who will respect and protect your prenuptuals , Thailand doesn't operate like your home country . Make sure you keep safely documents and receipts of major expenditures in Thailand .

This should be required reading for every Expat that lands at Swampy. ????

[Wake Up]

1 hour ago, Tony125 said:

Very selfish way of thinking. So when you die (as most of us will ) long before your GF if things have worked out and she has taken care of you for many years , had your kids , taken care of you in sickness and in health she is left with no pension (because you were not legally married to her) no insurance and none of your assets. Nice guy--NOT.

I know  German guy in Pattaya in my village 88 years old died a few months ago. Left his wife 68 years old with no insurance and no pension. She now is looking to sell their house as she does not have any money to live on, sad situation.

To be fair I interpreted the comments about protecting yourself if the relationship was not working out. Of course if the woman takes care of you and kids a long time you should provide some type of security for her when you die.  I agree with that and have seen many expats do that for their long time GF and especially their kids. I have heard stories of expats losing all their money and stories of expats disappearing one day leaving nothing for their GF and kids.  That is why protecting yourself is important. Relationships IMO with thai women can be great or go quickly off the tracks and generally she has more help and experienced advisors than expats do and detaches quicker. 

[NoshowJones]

18 hours ago, colinneil said:

Dream on pal, you are living in LA-LA land.

Colin, are you saying that if my wife runs up any debts without my knowledge, I can be held liable?

How would any debtor manage to get any money from me? The biggest bulk of my money is always kept in the UK.

[colinneil]

4 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Colin, are you saying that if my wife runs up any debts without my knowledge, I can be held liable?

How would any debtor manage to get any money from me? The biggest bulk of my money is always kept in the UK.

Possum me ole mate, my ex ran up a large bill, debt collectors came after me, as we were married Amphur.

I consulted a lawyer, he said you are liable just the same as your wife.

Fortunately the s++t hit the fan with my marriage, she divorced me when i was still in the UK, NO LONGER MY DEBT.

[murraynz]

2 hours ago, Toscano said:

We foreign men are very naive when we come to Thailand and fall in love with a beautiful Thai girl/woman . We do not realize , even if warned , that Thais are only interested in our money ; however much they appear to love in other ways money is their chief objective .

My advice to foreign men is don't marry ; if you come to live in Thailand get a retirement visa ; if you have plenty of money you can generously look after the needs of your girlfriend and her family without committing to marriage . If you must marry to please the girlfriend's family , a simple Thai wedding will do with No Amphur . In the event of things not working out , arguments !!! , gambling debts etc. , you can pack your bags and leave . Better to rent , lease , or live in the girlfriend's house than buy , do not spend a lot of money to buy land and build a house . The wealth you have in your own country is yours , don't tell about it or bring it to Thailand more than Your actual needs . It is all very well having prenuptuals , but in the event of a divorce it is not so easy to find a lawyer who will respect and protect your prenuptuals , Thailand doesn't operate like your home country . Make sure you keep safely documents and receipts of major expenditures in Thailand .

good sound advise.too many men loose their brains when they meet a beautiful thai lady.

nevertheless, as some have said--it would also be 'fair' to leave a will to support a long time partner in case of death..most of us are much older, so we usually die first...

my family in nz dont realy need anything from my estate..i have taught them all to make good investments to secure their own futures...i will donate to charity..not a 'lazy' thai family...

[FarangRimPing]

I had my pre-nup accepted when i registered my marriage about 10 years ago. Official hassled us because the agreement was basically saying that we alwsys will keep everything separate and never try to lay claim to the other's assets. He hassled us because he said it looked like a business transaction and not a marriage   

 

He did accept it, though. Written in Thai and English. Signed by 4 parties, us, my lawyer, and her lawyer. District office In Bangkok, near Ekamai, on corner of Sukhumvit.

[NoshowJones]

8 minutes ago, colinneil said:

Possum me ole mate, my ex ran up a large bill, debt collectors came after me, as we were married Amphur.

I consulted a lawyer, he said you are liable just the same as your wife.

Fortunately the s++t hit the fan with my marriage, she divorced me when i was still in the UK, NO LONGER MY DEBT.

I wasn't married at Amphur, we were married properly in Bangkok, I can just imagine anyone approaching me and saying "Your wife borrowed xx amount of money and won't pay it back, so you must pay it instead." I know what he would be told.

[khunPer]

It's always wise to make a prenuptial agreement; however, "Thai law under the Civil and Commercial Code clearly states the difference between personal property and common property. Personal property might also be referred to as separate property and amounts to property owned by someone before they married," according to the book "Thai Law for Foreigners" (ISBN 978-1-887521-57-4), page 62.

 

You are not in bad situation, when it comes to assets in Thailand. However, Thai law is legal for Thai assets only – just like you need to write two Last Will if you have assets abroad, one for your Thai assets in accordance with Thai law, and one in your home country in accordance with the law there – and you might need to register a marriage in your home country also, and a prenuptial agreement covering your assets there might even be more important at that point.

 

The writers of Thai Law for Foreigners, two Thai lawyers, advise to let a Thai lawyer write and handle to prenuptial agreement for Thai assets, and have a lawyer from your home country to write and handle the prenuptial agreement for your assets there. You need two witnesses when the Thai prenuptial agreement is signed; some times a government office will provide two witnesses from their staff, sometimes you have to bring the witnesses yourself.

 

You might need to have a prenuptial agreement covering foreign assets legalized, could be the reason why the clerk ask for your embassy to verify it. Without proper stamps and legalization, your prenuptial agreement might not be valid.

 

If your assets are worth protecting, do let two lawyers make the necessary documents here, and at home; might be well spend money...????

[HHTel]

Quote

Under the Thai Civil and Commercial Code, there are several requirements for making a Thailand prenuptial agreement:

• First, the contract must be in writing.
• Additionally, each party must receive separate legal counsel.
• Finally, the parties must sign the Thai prenuptial agreement in the presence of two witnesses prior to the marriage registration, and
• The Thai prenuptial agreement must be registered at the local district where the parties decide to register their marriage.

Quote

UK CITIZENS: Prenuptial Agreements are not recognized by law in the United Kingdom. However, some weight "may" be given by the court; it will nevertheless take the content of the agreement into account when reaching its decision. It is strongly recommended for British and UK Citizens to draft a Thailand prenuptial agreement for prior to marriage to Thai fiancé.

 

[connda]

Since when do you need the 'District Office' to acknowledge a prenup.  The prenup is a contract between you and your wife - nobody else.  If the prenup has been signed, set it aside in a safe place.

[Krataiboy]

Yeah, but. . .

 

Your insistence on a pre-nup begs some previous obvious questions about the quality and depth of the relationship and your level of commitment to your new bride.

 

If you didn't trust her, perhaps you shouldn't have married her - for her sake as well as yours, as divorce is one of life's most dreadfully traumatic experience for both parties, irrespective of any prior agreement reached over the dispersal of assets.

 

Did you really need a pre-nup, anyway? Under Thai law you both of you would be entitled to keep financial and other  possessions which were yours before you tied the knot, plus half of any accumulated thereafter. That seems pretty fair to me (16 years with a Thai wife and no pre-nup).

 

Hopefully, as you become better acquainted, trust will grow and your marriage will be a long and happy one.

[natway09]

If the prenup is only to "scare your girlfriend" I hope you walked away & did not go through with the wedding. No way to start a relationship !!