Yet more confusion over the removal of Income Certification Letter for British expats

[Spidey]

Just now, Thaidream said:

The point I am trying to make is that if they would accept other proof from American Applicants such as bank statements; pension letters etc why would they discriminate against British Applicants.

 One of the services the BE indicated she was going to perform in the interview given to Mr Dee was that the BE rep was going to go back to Thai Imm and also travel to Pattaya to explain their position on the letter.  Would you not expect that your BE rep also explain that British Banks provide Bank printouts; that British citizens get pension letters; that British citizens carry foreign ATM cards etc etc? This is the exact evidence British citizens were presenting to the BE as 'proof' of monthly income/  Since BE isrefusing to do the letter Thai Imm wants- I would think they could assist their citizens by explaining and even showing examples of other documentation-

I wouldn't and don't believe a single word that woman said. And if you've got an ounce of sense, neither should you.

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I wouldn't and don't believe a single word that woman said. And if you've got an ounce of sense, neither should you.

She's got a funny accent as well, renegade Scot or Northern Ireland, probably on the whiskey all day and tossing someones caber all night.

[Thaidream]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

wouldn't and don't believe a single word that woman said. And if you've got an ounce of sense, neither should you.

I don't either- At the least I would hope that the BE put out a letter in Thai/English stating they don't  do Income Letters anymore and request Thai Imm accept 'other' documentation to facilitate extension of Visa- signed  by a High ranking British Official.

[Spidey]

Just now, Thaidream said:

I don't either- At the least I would hope that the BE put out a letter in Thai/English stating they don't  do Income Letters anymore and request Thai Imm accept 'other' documentation to facilitate extension of Visa- signed  by a High ranking British Official.

And that high ranking official will get nothing but the finger from Thai Immigration.

[Pattaya46]

12 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The point I am trying to make is that if they would accept other proof from American Applicants such as bank statements; pension letters etc...

Pure speculation. That didn't happen... and will never happen IMHO.

[billd766]

16 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The point I am trying to make is that if they would accept other proof from American Applicants such as bank statements; pension letters etc why would they discriminate against British Applicants.

 One of the services the BE indicated she was going to perform in the interview given to Mr Dee was that the BE rep was going to go back to Thai Imm and also travel to Pattaya to explain their position on the letter.  Would you not expect that your BE rep also explain that British Banks provide Bank printouts; that British citizens get pension letters; that British citizens carry foreign ATM cards etc etc? This is the exact evidence British citizens were presenting to the BE as 'proof' of monthly income/  Since BE isrefusing to do the letter Thai Imm wants- I would think they could assist their citizens by explaining and even showing examples of other documentation-

 

I closed all my UK bank accounts over 10 years ago when I found out how much it was costing me.

 

I have no foreign ATM cards and my pensions go direct to my Thai bank account. I draw cash from the ATM and that is all I use as I live in rural Thailand where as soalbundy says in post #686, cash is king.

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Pure speculation. That didn't happen... and will never happen IMHO.

I hardly think that my own personal experience is speculation or that reports of other Americans being asked for added proof at CM is speculation. It happened to me- personally- I showed the proof as stated.  Don't tell me it didn't happen. Believe what you want!!

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Pure speculation. That didn't happen... and will never happen IMHO.

The Americans still get some sort of letter from their embassy, this is the only fetish that counts

[Pattaya46]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

// reports of other Americans being asked for added proof at CM is speculation.

The keyword is "added proof" while the post I replied to was "other proof" replacing the Embassy letter.

AFAIK nobody, from USA UK or any country, get a Retirement Extension on incomes option without an Embassy letter.

[Pib]

26 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The point I am trying to make is that if they would accept other proof from American Applicants such as bank statements; pension letters etc why would they discriminate against British Applicants.

They are not accepting "other" proof as the "sole" basis of approving the extension.  They are accepting the income letter and also sometimes requiring additional proof to support the income letter. 

 

If that American (or other nationality) applied with just bank letters, pensions letters, etc., his application would be rejected without the primary required income document which is embassy income letter.

[user7969876]

This is the first time I have posted a response and having observed from a safe distance I have every expectation that there will be some negative feedback but here goes.

 

I have followed this thread and the other on the same subject with an expectation that some steps would be taken to get one of the two sides  involved, BE and Thai Immigration to at the least accept that a problem exists and may be a route to a solution. A deafening, with the odd exception, silence.

To date there have been many explanations and descriptions of the problems Brits will experience and solutions that require the two sides to agree but few if any ways to make the two sides come up with a solution.

My own view, expressed in the E mail to the ambassador, is that the ball lies with him.

To that end I have written to the British Ambassador, not sure if he will take a blind bit of notice but at least he is aware of the issues and the concerns of his customers.

 

E mail Subject: "Yet more confusion over the removal of Income Certification Letter for British expats."

Good morning Mr Ambassador.

 

The subject today is as in the title to this E mail, a long and important thread on Thai Visa.com.

I am sure that there is some one in your organization who has, as part of their job description, the responsibility to follow the concerns of British subjects through this medium.
If I am mistaken then you need to URGENTLY get your people up to speed.

I am not going to list the issues that are at stake one by one, they are many, various and impact your customers in a variety of ways that you need to be aware of.

 

Best advice is to read the thread.

The recent interview on a local radio station in Pattaya by one of your vice consuls was a disgrace, she was just not aware of the Thai immigration rules or the way they are interpreted and implemented.
To have continually quoted from the Immigration web page, as if that was the actual way that policy is implemented across the various immigration offices, shows a complete lake of understanding in the way Thai’s with a little bit of power behave.
Each office is a mini fiefdom and to say that Bangkok Immigration have said that bank document will suffice to replace the Embassy Letter shows a complete lack of understanding of the situation and Thai culture.
I naively thought that diplomats were supposed to be tuned into the locals, she should be sent home.
She or better someone with the appropriate skills needs to negotiate office by office agreements and then check they are being enforced, good luck with that.

 

Better still revert to the “status quo ante”.

 

Bottom line is what are you going to do?

 

The latest missive from the Embassy received this last few minutes  is:-

His Royal Highness The Duke of Gloucester arrives in Bangkok today for an official visit that signifies the strength of the UK-Thailand partnership.

I don't care about that, but do as to how British expats will be able to remain in Thailand and support their families.

As it happens this does not directly concern me but if it did I would be taking the UK government to the European Court of Justice claiming that you are denying me a right to a family life.

This works well for ISIS terrorist so why not?

I would expect that a response to this E mail would give some indication that you take the matter seriously and that you or yours will find a solution to the problems caused but your staff, not the Thai Immigration.

Thai Immigration are unlikely to change their rules to suit the British embassy so you can see the ball is back with you.

Not sure in diplomatic circles how your Ambassadorial colleges feel about a loose cannon in you embassy stirring up the previously tranquil waters.

If I was in your shoes then the vice consul would be feeling pretty exposed.

Regards
Brian

 

 

 

 

[Bill Miller]

I would imagine a letter from your Thai bank indicating the deposit of an average 65,000 baht per month should be adequate.
I do not know what the British embassy letters are about. All that the US Embassy offers is to notarize your statement that you "receive thus and so", and you could put in any amount. I think the threat of prosecution for perjury has been amply demonstrated to be a farce, and the Thai authorities agree.
My last visa renewal at Savannakhet in September I took a letter from The Bank of New York and the Statement of Benefits from Social Security. They asked if I had my bank book, which I did not have with me. In lieu of that they accepted a copy of the previous visa from my passport, I assume on the reasonable theory that I still have about the same retirement income.
I think a letter from one's Thai Bank, notarized if possible, is the best evidence you could show, IF all IOs are instructed to accept such. 

[Jingthing]

Just now, Bill Miller said:

I would imagine a letter from your Thai bank indicating the deposit of an average 65,000 baht per month should be adequate.
I do not know what the British embassy letters are about. All that the US Embassy offers is to notarize your statement that you "receive thus and so", and you could put in any amount. I think the threat of prosecution for perjury has been amply demonstrated to be a farce, and the Thai authorities agree.
My last visa renewal at Savannakhet in September I took a letter from The Bank of New York and the Statement of Benefits from Social Security. They asked if I had my bank book, which I did not have with me. In lieu of that they accepted a copy of the previous visa from my passport, I assume on the reasonable theory that I still have about the same retirement income.
I think a letter from one's Thai Bank, notarized if possible, is the best evidence you could show, IF all IOs are instructed to accept such. 

There is no current requirement to import any specific amount of money on income based methods. The only requirement is to "prove" the income. Nothing about imports. Nothing about spending. Don't buy into the game the British embassy is playing trying to change the rules to be about IMPORTING the full income claim. It's a trap. 

[soalbundy]

5 minutes ago, Pookaow said:

This is the first time I have posted a response and having observed from a safe distance I have every expectation that there will be some negative feedback but here goes.

 

I have followed this thread and the other on the same subject with an expectation that some steps would be taken to get one of the two sides  involved, BE and Thai Immigration to at the least accept that a problem exists and may be a route to a solution. A deafening, with the odd exception, silence.

To date there have been many explanations and descriptions of the problems Brits will experience and solutions that require the two sides to agree but few if any ways to make the two sides come up with a solution.

My own view, expressed in the E mail to the ambassador, is that the ball lies with him.

To that end I have written to the British Ambassador, not sure if he will take a blind bit of notice but at least he is aware of the issues and the concerns of his customers.

 

E mail Subject: "Yet more confusion over the removal of Income Certification Letter for British expats."

 

Good morning Mr Ambassador.

 

The subject today is as in the title to this E mail, a long and important thread on Thai Visa.com.

I am sure that there is some one in your organization who has, as part of their job description, the responsibility to follow the concerns of British subjects through this medium.
If I am mistaken then you need to URGENTLY get your people up to speed.

I am not going to list the issues that are at stake one by one, they are many, various and impact your customers in a variety of ways that you need to be aware of.

 

Best advice is to read the thread.

The recent interview on a local radio station in Pattaya by one of your vice consuls was a disgrace, she was just not aware of the Thai immigration rules or the way they are interpreted and implemented.
To have continually quoted from the Immigration web page, as if that was the actual way that policy is implemented across the various immigration offices, shows a complete lake of understanding in the way Thai’s with a little bit of power behave.
Each office is a mini fiefdom and to say that Bangkok Immigration have said that bank document will suffice to replace the Embassy Letter shows a complete lack of understanding of the situation and Thai culture.
I naively thought that diplomats were supposed to be tuned into the locals, she should be sent home.
She or better someone with the appropriate skills needs to negotiate office by office agreements and then check they are being enforced, good luck with that.

 

Better still revert to the “status quo ante”.

 

Bottom line is what are you going to do?

 

The latest missive from the Embassy received this last few minutes  is:-

His Royal Highness The Duke of Gloucester arrives in Bangkok today for an official visit that signifies the strength of the UK-Thailand partnership.

I don't care about that, but do as to how British expats will be able to remain in Thailand and support their families.

As it happens this does not directly concern me but if it did I would be taking the UK government to the European Court of Justice claiming that you are denying me a right to a family life.

This works well for ISIS terrorist so why not?

I would expect that a response to this E mail would give some indication that you take the matter seriously and that you or yours will find a solution to the problems caused but your staff, not the Thai Immigration.

Thai Immigration are unlikely to change their rules to suit the British embassy so you can see the ball is back with you.

Not sure in diplomatic circles how your Ambassadorial colleges feel about a loose cannon in you embassy stirring up the previously tranquil waters.

If I was in your shoes then the vice consul would be feeling pretty exposed.

Regards
Brian

 

 

 

 

Excellent, welcome into the TV enclosure, well written and to the point, aggressive but not obscene (rare these days) 

[SheungWan]

7 minutes ago, Pookaow said:

This is the first time I have posted a response and having observed from a safe distance I have every expectation that there will be some negative feedback but here goes.

 

I have followed this thread and the other on the same subject with an expectation that some steps would be taken to get one of the two sides  involved, BE and Thai Immigration to at the least accept that a problem exists and may be a route to a solution. A deafening, with the odd exception, silence.

To date there have been many explanations and descriptions of the problems Brits will experience and solutions that require the two sides to agree but few if any ways to make the two sides come up with a solution.

My own view, expressed in the E mail to the ambassador, is that the ball lies with him.

To that end I have written to the British Ambassador, not sure if he will take a blind bit of notice but at least he is aware of the issues and the concerns of his customers.

 

E mail Subject: "Yet more confusion over the removal of Income Certification Letter for British expats."

 

Good morning Mr Ambassador.

 

The subject today is as in the title to this E mail, a long and important thread on Thai Visa.com.

I am sure that there is some one in your organization who has, as part of their job description, the responsibility to follow the concerns of British subjects through this medium.
If I am mistaken then you need to URGENTLY get your people up to speed.

I am not going to list the issues that are at stake one by one, they are many, various and impact your customers in a variety of ways that you need to be aware of.

 

Best advice is to read the thread.

The recent interview on a local radio station in Pattaya by one of your vice consuls was a disgrace, she was just not aware of the Thai immigration rules or the way they are interpreted and implemented.
To have continually quoted from the Immigration web page, as if that was the actual way that policy is implemented across the various immigration offices, shows a complete lake of understanding in the way Thai’s with a little bit of power behave.
Each office is a mini fiefdom and to say that Bangkok Immigration have said that bank document will suffice to replace the Embassy Letter shows a complete lack of understanding of the situation and Thai culture.
I naively thought that diplomats were supposed to be tuned into the locals, she should be sent home.
She or better someone with the appropriate skills needs to negotiate office by office agreements and then check they are being enforced, good luck with that.

 

Better still revert to the “status quo ante”.

 

Bottom line is what are you going to do?

 

The latest missive from the Embassy received this last few minutes  is:-

His Royal Highness The Duke of Gloucester arrives in Bangkok today for an official visit that signifies the strength of the UK-Thailand partnership.

I don't care about that, but do as to how British expats will be able to remain in Thailand and support their families.

As it happens this does not directly concern me but if it did I would be taking the UK government to the European Court of Justice claiming that you are denying me a right to a family life.

This works well for ISIS terrorist so why not?

I would expect that a response to this E mail would give some indication that you take the matter seriously and that you or yours will find a solution to the problems caused but your staff, not the Thai Immigration.

Thai Immigration are unlikely to change their rules to suit the British embassy so you can see the ball is back with you.

Not sure in diplomatic circles how your Ambassadorial colleges feel about a loose cannon in you embassy stirring up the previously tranquil waters.

If I was in your shoes then the vice consul would be feeling pretty exposed.

Regards
Brian

 

 

 

 

Yes, right, that should crack it. Probably should go in the green ink tray.

Edited October 15, 2018 by SheungWan

[soalbundy]

5 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

I would imagine a letter from your Thai bank indicating the deposit of an average 65,000 baht per month should be adequate.
I do not know what the British embassy letters are about. All that the US Embassy offers is to notarize your statement that you "receive thus and so", and you could put in any amount. I think the threat of prosecution for perjury has been amply demonstrated to be a farce, and the Thai authorities agree.
My last visa renewal at Savannakhet in September I took a letter from The Bank of New York and the Statement of Benefits from Social Security. They asked if I had my bank book, which I did not have with me. In lieu of that they accepted a copy of the previous visa from my passport, I assume on the reasonable theory that I still have about the same retirement income.
I think a letter from one's Thai Bank, notarized if possible, is the best evidence you could show, IF all IOs are instructed to accept such. 

Yes, but we want the letter

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, Pib said:

f that American (or other nationality) applied with just bank letters, pensions letters, etc., his application would be rejected without the primary required income document which is embassy income letter

Pib- I am well aware of this-  right now the letter is essential but it could possibly be negotiated that if the Embassy refuses a letter- other documentation can be used. I don't think the BE really understands the impact of what they are doing but  if they are intent on doing this- they need to be able to go to Thai Imm and work out alternatives for their citizens who need to use the Monthly Income  to get their extension. Thai Imm  has allowed the  applicant to extend  by either having the money in the bank in a lump lump OR a monthly stream of income/  Without the Letter- how do you prove your income- In the same manner when asked to show proof.  The same proof the BE was asking for to write the letter.

 

The Embassy set this in motion- in the interview their rep indicted they would  go to Thai Imm  in CW and Pattaya and give them a full explanation of alternative sources without the letter. If I was British I would also want the Embassy to print up a letter in Thai and English- signed by a high ranking  Embassy official  stating the Embassy can no longer  provide the letter and to  allow other proof of income be used to verify the monthly income stream.  Not every Imm Office is going to get the word.  Need something official to replace the Letter.  Or better yet- reverse course and still provide it.

 

 

[soalbundy]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

There is no current requirement to import any specific amount of money on income based methods. The only requirement is to "prove" the income. Nothing about imports. Nothing about spending. Don't buy into the game the British embassy is playing trying to change the rules to be about IMPORTING the full income claim. It's a trap. 

No, it's a lie

[Wanderlust]

I have also just written to the British Ambassador, as follows (probably should have used 'Mr Ambassador' but hopefully it doesn't stop him or his underlings at least reading it):

 

Dear Mr Davidson,

 

I am writing with regard to your Embassy’s recent announcement about stopping your Pension Letters Service from the middle of December 2018, as well as responses to enquiries about it, and the subsequent interview with Leanne Galloway (I apologise if this spelling is incorrect) with an expat radio station in Pattaya; I do not live in Pattaya or listen to the station, but I was made aware of the interview through the ThaiVisa website.

 

You will obviously be aware of the announcement, enquiries, and interview, but you may not be aware of the confusion they have caused amongst the expat community, or the reasons why this confusion exists, so I hope this email will both assist you in doing so, and give you the opportunity to both directly respond to me, and look at clarifying the issues for the wider community.

 

The main area of confusion is this: currently Thai immigration allows foreigners to apply for extensions of stay in Thailand on the basis of being married to a Thai National and being aged 50 or over (among others), and part of the requirements of this are the financial ones, which are as follows:

Proof of either;

1. 800,000 (over 50) or 400,000 (married) baht in a Thai bank for a period of 3 months; or

2. Income of at least 65,000 (over 50) or 40,000 (married) baht (which can be in either a Thai or foreign bank); or

3. A combination of the sum in a Thai bank and an income that add up to an equivalent figure.

 

The proof required for number 1 is simple and everybody understands it - showing a bank letter and statement/book from a Thai bank; the problem lies now for British nationals that the proof that Thai immigration has always requested for 2 and 3 is a letter from our Embassy. The confusion lies in that both the announcement and the interview claim that only the relevant financial documentation is required to prove income, and also that this can ONLY be income to a Thai bank. 

 

Various expats from around Thailand have enquired at their local immigration offices to see if what has been stated will be accepted, and all that have reported back have said they received a flat no from the officers, who added that they must have a letter from their embassy.

 

The interview also said that, if necessary, the British Embassy would be sending a representative to the Bangkok and Pattaya Immigration office(s) to explain that there would be no more letters from the British Embassy, and to make sure that British Nationals would be able to apply using the income method described in your announcement (i.e.sufficient regular income into a Thai bank account), but this also raises more issues; firstly, what about those who do not use Bangkok or Pattaya immigration offices - are the Embassy going to send representatives to all the other immigration offices? And secondly, what about those British nationals who wish to extend their stay with proof of income in their foreign bank account, or other methods currently acceptable to Thai immigration?

 

A further area of confusion is that in response to at least one enquiry following the original announcement, a spokesperson for the British Embassy said that the US Embassy would also be following suit and stopping their equivalent service as well, something that numerous enquiries by concerned US Nationals revealed was not the case, only that their process was being studied, but was not changing for the foreseeable future.

 

Another point of clarification I would like is regarding when this decision by the British Embassy was actually taken; the various official comments indicate that a meeting was held in May 2018 between Thai immigration and the British Embassy, so many people are wondering why the announcement was made in October. Again, according to the various responses, at that original meeting, Thai Immigration insisted that the British Embassy actually verified the incomes claimed by applicants in the letters issued; this raises three more questions - firstly, was this a demand only made to the British Embassy, or were other embassies at the meeting also, and if so, which ones? Secondly, if other embassies did receive the same demand, why is it that only the British Embassy is stopping their service? And thirdly, if this demand was made by Thai immigration to all the other embassies, how come they are continuing to, and will accept their letters without alteration into the future, according to the immigration officers at ground level?

 

I do not dispute the legal and practical difficulties of verifying income sources by the embassies, as these are both protected under recent privacy laws and would likely require a much higher fee to be charged for doing so, however was there no consideration of moving to some kind of statutory declaration witnessed by the British Embassy, similar to that practiced by the Australians or Americans? If it was considered, can you tell me the reasons it was rejected? It appears as though the Thais are perfectly happy to accept this, as it does have some legal force behind it, as if an applicant is found to be lying in their declaration, they could face jail time.

 

I think that all foreigners intending to remain in Thailand for a longer period wish that the Thai visa and extension of stay options were both more uniformly applied at the local offices, and also took more account of things like property purchases, and were generally easier, but are also realistic enough to know that these are decisions that only the Thai authorities can make and enforce, but the withdrawal of the embassy letter appears, without the further information I am requesting, to just be an attempt at a cost cutting exercise, and this was briefly mentioned as a factor in the radio interview. I hope you can respond fully to explain the decision in detail, because it will affect many British Nationals adversely, and will possibly force some of them to return to the UK, splitting families apart and adding an extra burden to services in the UK. Looking at the bigger picture, it is very likely to cost the UK taxpayer more than will be saved at Embassy level.

 

I look forward to your response, and hope that you are able to furnish the expat community with a complete explanation.

 

Regards,

[Bill Miller]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

There is no current requirement to import any specific amount of money on income based methods. The only requirement is to "prove" the income. Nothing about imports. Nothing about spending. Don't buy into the game the British embassy is playing trying to change the rules to be about IMPORTING the full income claim. It's a trap. 

The Thai government is only interested in ensuring one has sufficient income to live here without becoming a burden on society, same with almost every other nation re:foreign residents. My suggestion of demonstrating via your Thai bank passbook and/or a letter should provide such evidence.
What is the point of proving the income if you do not import it? I do not see anywhere that you have to prove that you KEEP the monthly funds here, though I manage to dispose of 65,000 baht a month with no trouble! ???? Some goes to pay bills in other countries, as long as my Bkk bank visa card is accepted elsewhere.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

The Thai government is only interested in ensuring one has sufficient income to live here without becoming a burden on society, same with almost every other nation re:foreign residents. My suggestion of demonstrating via your Thai bank passbook and/or a letter should provide such evidence.
What is the point of proving the income if you do not import it? I do not see anywhere that you have to prove that you KEEP the monthly funds here, though I manage to dispose of 65,000 baht a month with no trouble! ???? Some goes to pay bills in other countries, as long as my Bkk bank visa card is accepted elsewhere.

You're making up rules that don't exist just like the British embassy. I find that offensive. Many people have complicated financial situations, pensions paid outside Thailand, issues with import mechanics. Import of full income claim has NEVER been a requirement before. If it is to be so, let the Thais come up with that onerous change. Don't fall for the trap of promoting it yourself. As I've said before looking at retirement programs globally some nations require full import of income claim and some don't. Thailand never has. If it does change to that, it would be a very NEGATIVE change and onerous for many that DO have the income they claim. Foreigners should NOT be cheerleaders for NEGATIVE changes in policy. It seems to me an unhealthy variation of the Stockholm Syndrome. Bizarrely, and to my view DISGUSTINGLY, it is often foreigners here advocating for more draconian rules than the Thais have ever had. If they want to go that route, it's up to them. Don't freakin' encourage them. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Jingthing

[user7969876]

I have to say this is a more coherant response than I made.

The more Brits confront the Embassy the better.

 

Brian

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Bill Miller said:

The Thai government is only interested in ensuring one has sufficient income to live here without becoming a burden on society, same with almost every other nation re:foreign residents. My suggestion of demonstrating via your Thai bank passbook and/or a letter should provide such evidence.
What is the point of proving the income if you do not import it? I do not see anywhere that you have to prove that you KEEP the monthly funds here, though I manage to dispose of 65,000 baht a month with no trouble! ???? Some goes to pay bills in other countries, as long as my Bkk bank visa card is accepted elsewhere.

We are obviously living from something, plus I educate 2 Thai children to university level, my Thai/British son is 11 and apparently a ficking genius and I also support my step granddaughter of 2 years, I pay considerable land tax on top of all this but it all means nothing without an embassy letter.

[Thaidream]

8 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

I have also just written to the British Ambassador, as follows (probably should have used 'Mr Ambassador' but hopefully it doesn't stop him or his underlings at least reading it):

Excellent Letter. Captures all the salient issues. I hope the response is positive.

 

Actually- it might be hoped that he continue the Embassy letter for a bit while a panel of well informed British Expat citizens is formed and could come up with recommendations on how to continue the service or replace it with other alternatives that would be acceptable to both BE and Thai Imm. Just a suggestion

[sniggie]

10 hours ago, rickudon said:

Apart from the incompetence and indifference shown by the UK embassy to those UK expats who used the income letter route, what angers me is yet again a change which will cost me. I'm lucky enough to meet the 40,000 baht a month income level comfortably at this time, but i understand that the proposed Embassy alternative (which immigration currently do not accept anyway) would see most British expats being assessed on NET income, rather than GROSS, so some will fall foul of the limits. Ok, I COULD do the 400,000 baht in the bank route (although i would have to strip my UK savings) but i chose instead the letter route for a number of reasons.......

 

1. Like many, not keen on leaving 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account as willingness of Thai banks to cover fraud is somewhat suspect, You hear stories every year of accounts being emptied and banks refusing responsibility. Admittedly a rare event.

 

2. I can earn up to 3 x more income on my money if kept in the UK. That is 8,000 baht more..... (exchange rates ignored).

 

3, I have also found that using my credit card  was cheaper than doing interbank transfers (some would dispute this, but i did my homework and was true for MY credit card) and i could get my money on demand rather than having to plan ahead. And of course, only bring in what i needed. Ok, not directly relevant.

 

4. If i didn't keep much cash in my Thai bank, didn't need to worry about inheritance issues as to who gets the money, and the need for a Thai will (I have a UK will that adequately deals with who gets what after my death, and my wife has no faith or understanding in the Thai legal system, but that is another story).

 

So just another case of a shitty decision which will cost me more and cause me more inconvenience. Plus my sympathy to those more seriously inconvenienced.

Totally agree with this. As it happens I do have considerably more than the equivalent of 800,000 baht in the UK happily generating dividends and normally showing an increase in value. I would rather not sell any investments to bring to Thailand though if I have to so be it. But it would be at a cost. 

 

The monthly amount would create issues for many people. It might mean using banks to transfer the money in rather than, say, TransferWise. It may well mean using cash for all purposes. When I go back to the UK (two or three times a year) I normally bring over £2 to 4k in pounds and enjoy TTs rate for a month or two. I might have to transfer the minimum over even when I am not in the Kingdom. All doable but it comes at a cost.

 

 The pension method worked well for me in the past. My pensions are together well more than 800,000 baht. Of course it doesn't all come over to Thailand , (much to my wife's disappointment!) but there's enough for our needs. The possible changes will mean a rethink of my financial activities which I am sure will not work out to my advantage.

 

 

[Bill Miller]

26 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're making up rules that don't exist just like the British embassy. I find that offensive. Many people have complicated financial situations, pensions paid outside Thailand, issues with import mechanics. Import of full income claim has NEVER been a requirement before. If it is to be so, let the Thais come up with that onerous change. Don't fall for the trap of promoting it yourself. As I've said before looking at retirement programs globally some nations require full import of income claim and some don't. Thailand never has. If it does change to that, it would be a very NEGATIVE change and onerous for many that DO have the income they claim. Foreigners should NOT be cheerleaders for NEGATIVE changes in policy. It seems to me an unhealthy variation of the Stockholm Syndrome. Bizarrely, and to my view DISGUSTINGLY, it is often foreigners here advocating for more draconian rules than the Thais have ever had. If they want to go that route, it's up to them. Don't freakin' encourage them. 

I did not make up anything, if your reading comprehension can raise above the elementary level.
The existing rule is that you must provide proof of a certain level of income.
I have only suggested one way, not terribly burdensome, in which that proof can be supplied.
I submit that, in this particular instance, you are the more likely source of disgusting, bizarre, unhealthy, etc., attitudes.
If you do not like my suggestion of one way to prove what you must to satisfy the existing requirements of the Thai government, then fine. You do not have to follow them.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Bill Miller
spelling.

[sambum]

13 hours ago, sambum said:

The usual "If you don't like it go home" type reply - yawn!

 

What if you don't have the money annually to meet the requirements, but can not lay your hands on 400,000 baht immediately?

 

I have asked this before, but the only reply I get seems similar to the above!

Sorry - meant to say if you do have the money annually, but can not lay your hands on 400,000 baht  immediately!

[SheungWan]

16 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Excellent Letter. Captures all the salient issues. I hope the response is positive.

 

Actually- it might be hoped that he continue the Embassy letter for a bit while a panel of well informed British Expat citizens is formed and could come up with recommendations on how to continue the service or replace it with other alternatives that would be acceptable to both BE and Thai Imm. Just a suggestion

"....a panel of well informed British Expat citizens is formed..."

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

I did not make up anything, if your reading comprehension can raise above the elementary level.
The existing rule is that you must provide proof of a certain level of income.
I have only suggested one way, not terribly burdensome, in which that proof can be supplied.
I submit that, in this particular instance, you are the more likely source of disgusting, bizarre, unhealthy, etc., attitudes.
If you do not like my suggestion of one way to prove what you must to satisfy the existing requirements of the Thai government, then fine. You do not have to follow them.

Where's the embassy letter ?

[Spidey]

Just now, Bill Miller said:

I did not make up anything, if your reading comprehension can raise above the elementary level.
The existing rule is that you must provide proof of a certain level of income.
I have only suggested one way, not terribly burdensome, in which that proof can be supplied.
I submit that, in this particular instance, you are the more likely source of disgusting, bizarre, unhealthy, etc., attitudes.
If you do not like my suggestion of one way to prove what you must to satisfy the existing requirements of the Thai government, then fine. You do not have to follow them.

Your suggestion is unworkable as Thai Immigration will never agree to it.

 

Sensible suggestions only, please.